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Serious question about Tier VIII ships - between the Premium ships currently available and Mogami, are there any that stand out as stronger or weaker in ranked's meta?
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Sep 28, 2016 17:58
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Gneisenau on my team just shot down 28 Hiryu planes, which was 3 more than our fighter Ranger managed, and 20 more than my Yorck did sitting right under the flight path of about 4 alpha strikes in sequence.Cobbsprite posted:Serious question about Tier VIII ships - between the Premium ships currently available and Mogami, are there any that stand out as stronger or weaker in ranked's meta? Probably better off just saving your money and using a 155mm Mogami NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Sep 28, 2016 |
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Sep 28, 2016 18:00
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Tirpitz is good and fun, but the matchmaking changes mean it'll be uptiered a bit more and it has to fight Bismarks now.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:03
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More to the point, regarding German BBs having stupid good AA, is that it's incredibly dumb from a mechanical perspective. The class has no effective weaknesses: Extremely good armor and nigh unhittable citadels, incredibly good AA to seriously damage any incoming CV strikes, and Hydroacoustic which heavily protects against their supposed "weakness" - torpedoes. Also, Friedrich and Kurfurst fire faster than Montana with the 16" gun choice for no apparent reason other than "gently caress you." Battleship AA in general, with the somewhat exception of IJN ones, is too high anyways. As-is, most high tier CV players would rather go after cruisers, the class you may recall WG continues to claim is the one that counters CVs, rather than non-IJN battleships because DF can be worked around and they've given the battleships such heavy AA batteries that with current plane mechanics equivalent tier USN and German battleships are both quite likely to mostly wreck an incoming strike before they even get to their drop point. Even further making cruisers irrelevant. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Sep 28, 2016 |
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Sep 28, 2016 18:12
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Minenfeld! posted:If your historical reasoning is "Swordfishes Bismarck lol" that's not much to base all German AAA off of. German AAA should be average. USN AAA above average and IJN below average. My historical reasoning is that the Germans didn't shoot down loving ANYTHING. Please no Bismarck fanboism.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:25
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NTRabbit posted:
Disagree in the strongest possible terms. Atago is much much better than Mogami or any other T8 cruiser bar possibly the Kutosov but I think well played Bismarcks will be the Kutosov's downfall in ranked.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:30
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As someone who likes cruisers, it feels like there are too many battleships in game anymore.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:36
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kaesarsosei posted:Disagree in the strongest possible terms. Atago is much much better than Mogami or any other T8 cruiser bar possibly the Kutosov but I think well played Bismarcks will be the Kutosov's downfall in ranked. Didn't realise the Atago was still on sale, thought they'd yanked it months ago
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Sep 28, 2016 18:37
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While the 155mm Mogami still has the potential to do great amounts of damage to anything it encounters I would guess it wouldn't do so well in ranked since you have to rely on concealment and shooting at distracted ships. If it's your only T8 still better than nothing of course. Atago is by far the best T8 cruiser and if you want to part with the money you wouldn't regret it.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:45
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kaesarsosei posted:Absolutely loving insane. I have no idea whatsoever where this concept of German BBs having the best AA comes from. Now the Gneisenau's AA is better than both Tirpitz and Bismarck? To say nothing of absolutely blowing away the Colorado and Nagato. When I was playing through the Gneisenau I didn't even fear T8 CVs, which is a ridiculous state of affairs. In real life the British High Angle Control system and radars were probably the best integrated ship AAA systems of the war. Fun fact, Prince of Wales had this system, but left port in Singapore with broken HAC radars because Phillips decided he didn't need them (or continuous RAF air cover.)
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Sep 28, 2016 18:51
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CitizenKain posted:As someone who likes cruisers, it feels like there are too many battleships in game anymore. Which is what I was talking about and what the WOWS forums endlessly talk about. The BB and DD meta. It's hard to survive as a cruiser with all the BB's, so only a few people play them, which encourages more DD's since without CA's, their main threat is other DD's and German BB secondaries. It also encourages more BB's because if you can't survive in a CA, might as well play as a BB to do damage and take a hit or mitigate damage. DD's are a lot of fun for their game play style and the impact on the on outcome of the battle. They can win the battle if they have support or go lone wolf depending on what is going on. BB's are very survivable and has a Skinner box reward system with the big damage numbers of the RNG system which makes them fun. CA's just die, require a lot of skill and get punished for aggressive play. They are the priority target for BB because of how easy it is to kill them and many BB's get annoyed if CA's set them on fire. Better to kill that CA in one hit first than go after that German BB that is hard to citadel. CV's are almost never in game too, but they have a bunch of reasons that contributes to that, including game play, the UI, balance, and a very hostile community towards CV players especially form other CV players.
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Sep 28, 2016 19:21
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Patch drops tomorrow right?
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Sep 28, 2016 20:01
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ZombieLenin posted:In real life the British High Angle Control system and radars were probably the best integrated ship AAA systems of the war. Fun fact, Prince of Wales had this system, but left port in Singapore with broken HAC radars because Phillips decided he didn't need them (or continuous RAF air cover.) What would have made it better than the US systems on it's own? The real distinguishing feature I see is the Pom-Pom Director Mark 4, and that's more from a time of introduction point of view than anything else, and as far as overall AAA system goes, later US systems with actual stabilization from deck tilt are better, especially when their system has the higher velocity Bofors, and it's certainly not a big enough disparity to warrant a blanket statement of superiority. I'll also point out that the Mk 37 in full tachymetric form could be installed in destroyers and auxiliaries, while the UK used the non-tachymetric Fuze Keeping Clock on their destroyers. It's largely irrelevant though just because those two were vastly beyond everyone else.
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Sep 28, 2016 20:09
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kaesarsosei posted:My historical reasoning is that the Germans didn't shoot down loving ANYTHING. Please no Bismarck fanboism. To be fair to the Germans, after Bismark all of the German battleships had their AAA systems strengthened, no German battleship was sunk by aircraft while underway during the war, and the Tirpitz AA protection protected her from some pretty serious air attacks (at least until it didn't.)
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Sep 28, 2016 20:17
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Durendal posted:Patch drops tomorrow right?
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Sep 28, 2016 20:25
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ZombieLenin posted:To be fair to the Germans, after Bismark all of the German battleships had their AAA systems strengthened, no German battleship was sunk by aircraft while underway during the war, and the Tirpitz AA protection protected her from some pretty serious air attacks (at least until it didn't.) Considering how much effort the UK put into destroying the Tirpitz, no amount of AAA was going to save it or any ship.
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Sep 28, 2016 20:36
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I asked this before, but, minotaur when?
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Sep 28, 2016 20:39
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E Equals MC Hammer posted:I asked this before, but, minotaur when? Mid-October
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Sep 28, 2016 20:46
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Maybe if I keep asking it will get here faster.
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Sep 28, 2016 20:47
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xthetenth posted:It's largely irrelevant though just because those two were vastly beyond everyone else. I really want them to implement beehive rounds for the big Japanese guns. Even if people never actually fire them because they're useless.
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Sep 28, 2016 21:39
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CitizenKain posted:As someone who likes cruisers, it feels like there are too many battleships in game anymore. On EU at least, I think after the weekend BB event and as time continues to pass from the German BB launch, the BB numbers are settling back down. I had almost 2 min queues in my BBs at any tier over the weekend but its back to under a minute now. I think the RN Cruiser launch should also help this but I reckon even before then it will be better balanced.
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Sep 28, 2016 21:40
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Is the Isokaze broken or like super op or am I just missing something with it. They seem to appear out of no where and then whack all the torps.
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Sep 28, 2016 21:54
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Phanatic posted:I really want them to implement beehive rounds for the big Japanese guns. Even if people never actually fire them because they're useless. It'd be cool even if it was just depicted in the same barrage from the AA consumable that cruisers use. Maybe even have that consumable swap out with one of the battleship items.
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Sep 28, 2016 21:53
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CitizenKain posted:As someone who likes cruisers, it feels like there are too many battleships in game anymore. I agree. Though I did have a match earlier with 2 BBs per team, 2 DDs, and the rest cruisers.
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Sep 28, 2016 21:53
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rex rabidorum vires posted:Is the Isokaze broken or like super op or am I just missing something with it. They seem to appear out of no where and then whack all the torps. It has 6km detection and 7km torps with about a 40sec reload. So its one of the best stealth torping DDs in the game, at a tier where BB drivers haven't found WASD yet.
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Sep 28, 2016 22:04
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kaesarsosei posted:It has 6km detection and 7km torps with about a 40sec reload. So its one of the best stealth torping DDs in the game, at a tier where BB drivers haven't found WASD yet. I"m guessing that the torp detection range is pretty low as well because holy poo poo are they a bitch to deal with.
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Sep 28, 2016 22:12
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Incidentally, is there a reason people are playing the Isokaze instead of the Minekaze in preparation for the new IJN destroyers, whenever they drop? Seems likely Minekaze will be kept in your harbor as-is when that happens.
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Sep 28, 2016 22:35
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Lord Koth posted:Incidentally, is there a reason people are playing the Isokaze instead of the Minekaze in preparation for the new IJN destroyers, whenever they drop? Seems likely Minekaze will be kept in your harbor as-is when that happens. I'm guessing they want the free skip to the Mutsuki when it gets knocked down a tier?
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Sep 28, 2016 22:56
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🔓🔍xthetenth posted:What would have made it better than the US systems on it's own? The real distinguishing feature I see is the Pom-Pom Director Mark 4, and that's more from a time of introduction point of view than anything else, and as far as overall AAA system goes, later US systems with actual stabilization from deck tilt are better, especially when their system has the higher velocity Bofors, and it's certainly not a big enough disparity to warrant a blanket statement of superiority. I'll also point out that the Mk 37 in full tachymetric form could be installed in destroyers and auxiliaries, while the UK used the non-tachymetric Fuze Keeping Clock on their destroyers. I would like to point out that starting with HACS IV in late 1940, the HACS system was also stabilized; However, you're right, the answer to your question is nothing. Mostly I am giving the HACS system the credit because it was the first to be deployed (1931) and its success in the early war, particularly during Operation Halberd, was highly visible. That and the American late war ship borne AAA doesn't get the respect it deserves (guilty), even though it was remarkably successful against pilots determined to fly planes directly into ships. If I had to guess, I think this is probably because American AAA is overshadowed by the overwhelming air superiority/force projection that her carriers represented at that stage of the war. *edit Kilravock posted:Considering how much effort the UK put into destroying the Tirpitz, no amount of AAA was going to save it or any ship. Yes, but it the British a long time to Sink her. Hitler's blustering aside, Tirpitz was a tremendous strategic success. As a single ship Fleet-in-Being she managed to do almost as much as the entire High Sea's Fleet did in the First World War in terms of tying up British naval and air resources from 1942 to almost the end of the war. I mean, FFS, Churchill literally acted like a crazy man and obsessed over neutralizing Tirpitz. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Sep 28, 2016 |
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Sep 28, 2016 23:17
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Well, up to 6 loving losses in a row in the Minekaze, trying to get the daily done. Ending nearly every single one of them in the #1 spot. Apparently all the mouthbreathing retards are still around from the bonus exp weekend, and apparently MM feels like sticking them on my team EVERY SINGLE loving GAME. Such wonderful highlights as a Langley that never even bothered to join the game in one, and every single BB on the team being utter retards in another - Colorado hid at max range, and the other 3 meandered onto the 9-10 lines on a horizontal spread Domination map (Shards, if you want to go see just how moronic that decision was). edit: So tired of my w/r getting killed, because I somehow can't even get an average of one decent team every two matches, day after day after day. 33% today, just barely over 50% for the entire goddamn month. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Sep 28, 2016 |
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Sep 28, 2016 23:39
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kaesarsosei posted:My historical reasoning is that the Germans didn't shoot down loving ANYTHING. Please no Bismarck fanboism. No Bismarck fanboism here. I'm just pointing out that German AA was average for the war. It's the IJN that should have awful AA. They could barely hit stationary targets.
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Sep 28, 2016 23:55
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Oh yeah I am not arguing the strategic success of the Tirpitz. Just look at all the resources, special weapons development, and operation the British spent chasing her around Norway. Plus the damage she did indirectly when Intel said she was put to sea causing the Russian bound convoys to be dispersed and become easy targets for the u-boats. Still those efforts kept failing and it was not due to her AAA. Of coarse the fjords she was in had heavy AAA to protect her. Yeah American Air Superiority of the massive number Hellcats and Corsairs shooting down half trained pilots does overshadow the effectiveness of USN AAA. As much as the Kamikaze attacks were played up in propaganda, only a very few were able to get through the combined fighter CAP's and AAA.
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Sep 29, 2016 00:10
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Kilravock posted:Oh yeah I am not arguing the strategic success of the Tirpitz. Just look at all the resources, special weapons development, and operation the British spent chasing her around Norway. Plus the damage she did indirectly when Intel said she was put to sea causing the Russian bound convoys to be dispersed and become easy targets for the u-boats. Well, someone just looked up Tirpitz on Wikipedia.
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Sep 29, 2016 00:11
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Nope, I knew about these useless trivial facts as a kid from years ago. I was I really into naval and air warfare like any geeky history buff. All before Wikipedia, but I don't remember enough detailed information like ZombieLenin is giving.
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Sep 29, 2016 00:27
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Cobbsprite posted:Well, someone just looked up Tirpitz on Wikipedia. Even if that's true, in this case, Wikipedia isn't lying.
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Sep 29, 2016 00:28
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People are playing the Isokaze because it only sees T5 max, which is sealclubbing nirvana. Its not as quick as the Minekaze, but the Minekaze can see up to T7 and only down to T4, so it faces people who actually know how to not drive in straight lines. Also, counter to the Isokaze. Don't drive in a goddamn straight line. Also avoid coming around islands blind unless you're looking for a fight (this is for every ship, tbh), and be a bit more map aware. Isokaze was spotted a minute ago 9km away from your BB? You can bet your sorry rear end you have torps inbound soon, get yourself on a new course. This becomes more important as you hit T6, since the Mutsuki packs 10km torps, Fubuki has 15km, and the US DDs start getting torps that can hit out to 9.2km.
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Sep 29, 2016 01:43
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I need to not go blind around islands, I'm bad about that. I'm also bad at the Isokaze, I need more practice to get good at DDs. Is that one where you really want Concealment Expert? I'm having a hard time getting within 7km, dumping torpedoes, and getting out before they get within 6.1km and spot me. Is the Kaiser good enough to hold on to for running low tiers in divisions?
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Sep 29, 2016 02:42
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Huge cowards are so mad about the economy changes 
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Sep 29, 2016 03:01
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They all deserve it for sitting at maximum range with the best armour, HP, and guns, and letting their CAs and DDs die without hitting a single target instead of supporting a push. Had a nice fellow on the NA server today who wasn't incompetent at all talk about how since DDs hard counter BBs, he wasn't going to move up until all of them were dead and promised that he would carry the team to victory after that happened. True to form, he spent the entire match two grids from the border until we were at 950 points. Asia server players are bad, but not this bad. 
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Sep 29, 2016 03:15
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wdarkk posted:Huge cowards are so mad about the economy changes I was slightly bummed for a moment when I had a stealth-torping Gearing game where I did 75k damage and took a little over 1k damage all game but ended up with the flat repair fee. But then I remembered that it's totally worth it for paying less on games where I get detonated halfway through. Lord Koth posted:Well, up to 6 loving losses in a row in the Minekaze, trying to get the daily done. Ending nearly every single one of them in the #1 spot. I had a Tashkent game where I was hiding in my smoke with 166 health and a damaged engine. A "friendly" Hindenberg rammed me out of my smoke and told me to gently caress off when I complained. I torped him for his last bit of health and I have zero regrets (we won anyway).
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Sep 29, 2016 03:51
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