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Toshimo posted:lol nope "While Treasure Chests are untradeable, the cards inside can be traded."
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Sep 29, 2016 17:13
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sarmhan posted:Are people that bad at reading? Yes.
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Sep 29, 2016 17:13
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ShaneB posted:"While Treasure Chests are untradeable, the cards inside can be traded." the cards can't be premium, when you say shiny goyf he interpreted that to mean foil, ya putz
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Sep 29, 2016 17:17
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putz is such a good word, idk what it means but i like saying it
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Sep 29, 2016 17:19
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Who cares about the treasure chests, drafts are now 12 tickets and they even added a pack to the "pack per win" swiss leagues (3-0 now gets you 4 packs). I'm kind of baffled, did WotC actually make a decision that's all upside for its MtGO consumers? http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-digital/magic-online-kaladesh-event-changes-2016-09-29
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Sep 29, 2016 17:20
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Unhinged 3 Card idea: Chandra, Putz of Defiance all abilities are non-red
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Sep 29, 2016 17:20
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ShadeofBlue posted:Who cares about the treasure chests, drafts are now 12 tickets and they even added a pack to the "pack per win" swiss leagues (3-0 now gets you 4 packs). I'm kind of baffled, did WotC actually make a decision that's all upside for its MtGO consumers? As I said this is just them recognizing that you can buy packs from bots to enter with and pay pretty much exactly that anyway.
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Sep 29, 2016 17:25
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mandatory lesbian posted:putz is such a good word, idk what it means but i like saying it It means penis (from Yiddish, diminutive). Languages are fun.
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Sep 29, 2016 17:27
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mandatory lesbian posted:the cards can't be premium, when you say shiny goyf he interpreted that to mean foil, ya putz I still don't see where it's saying that the curated/premium cards from chests aren't tradeable. Unless I'm missing the argument entirely and it's just about foils/non foils in them. All I care about is that 3-2ing a league will feel a little better. ShaneB fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Sep 29, 2016 |
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Sep 29, 2016 17:27
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sarmhan posted:Are people that bad at reading? We're reminded of this every time spoiler season rolls along.
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Sep 29, 2016 17:33
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ShaneB posted:I still don't see where it's saying that the curated/premium cards from chests aren't tradeable. he wasn't saying it was untradeable, did you not read the thing he himself quoted quote:Curated cards are non-premium, including both Zendikar Expeditions and Kaladesh Inventions, with the same exception for rares from Eighth Edition and Ninth Edition, which will remain premium.
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Sep 29, 2016 17:36
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ShaneB posted:I still don't see where it's saying that the curated/premium cards from chests aren't tradeable. yes, that is correct BaronVonVaderham posted:It means penis (from Yiddish, diminutive). Languages are fun. oh lol, my chandra card just got racy 0_0
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Sep 29, 2016 17:39
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sarmhan posted:The real change here is the move from extra play points+ a small number of packs to these chests. Without knowing the full math I can't say whether it's better or worse for people. It's worse, easily. It's basically untradeable packs, but you only get a rare in 1/4.5 chests and even then you have a 1/9021378509238590 chance of getting anything good because the vast majority of Modern-legal rares are bulk. Giving you actual packs lets you enter limited events or convert them into tickets.
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Sep 29, 2016 17:48
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As a non mtgo player I'm confused--what are people losing now that they're getting treasure chests? Are the entry fees to events going up? This seems like a announcement that every prize pool in constructed is getting bigger.
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Sep 29, 2016 17:51
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Angry Grimace posted:It's worse, easily. It's basically untradeable packs, but you only get a rare in 1/4.5 chests and even then you have a 1/9021378509238590 chance of getting anything good because the vast majority of Modern-legal rares are bulk. Yeah, once I saw the pack payout changes to 4-1 and 5-0ing a league, I got really sad. This is probably bad.
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Sep 29, 2016 17:53
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lol at people who play mtgo acting like they have any sort of standards
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Sep 29, 2016 18:19
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Angry Grimace posted:It's worse, easily. It's basically untradeable packs, but you only get a rare in 1/4.5 chests and even then you have a 1/9021378509238590 chance of getting anything good because the vast majority of Modern-legal rares are bulk. You clearly didn't read it either. Every one gets the rare (or something better). One in 5 gets a second one. This is absolutely what people wanted, for modern at least. Every modern rare ever will trend towards free, and the power uncommons like path or might of old krosa will be on the curated list and will as well. They're slowly eliminating the online secondary market and i love it.
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Sep 29, 2016 18:21
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:You clearly didn't read it either. Every one gets the rare (or something better). One in 5 gets a second one. quote:All Treasure Chests will contain one of the following: a curated card, a Modern-set rare or mythic rare, or a number of Play Points. little munchkin posted:lol at people who play mtgo acting like they have any sort of standards okay, I'll stop.
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Sep 29, 2016 18:24
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Cool, maybe a playset of liliana won't be $400 in a few months.
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Sep 29, 2016 18:24
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:You clearly didn't read it either. Every one gets the rare (or something better). One in 5 gets a second one. How will there be no secondary market when the concept of turning useless cards into SOMETHING (ala dust like HS) doesn't exist on modo, and I can't really imagine a way it could. I'm not sure how they make this transition happen.
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Sep 29, 2016 18:27
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I mean effectively gone. As in, the cards will be easily available and cheap as poo poo since there is constant incidental new supply. In fact, if I had a collection on modo I'd be selling it now and if I had bots I'd reduce my buy prices by a lot until we see how fast these things flood the market.
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Sep 29, 2016 18:41
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:I mean effectively gone. As in, the cards will be easily available and cheap as poo poo since there is constant incidental new supply. In fact, if I had a collection on modo I'd be selling it now and if I had bots I'd reduce my buy prices by a lot until we see how fast these things flood the market. Crashing secondary markets on modo would be a great thing.
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Sep 29, 2016 18:46
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So the curated list is 634 cards long at the moment, and they're going to put CN2 and C16 cards in it (the only way to get them online, naturally). Additionally, the cards on the curated list appear at unequal rates. We don't know the probabilities, but given that it's WotC, we can assume Rishadan Port and Force of Will are significantly more rare than Atog and Diabolic Edict. I'm not sure this is really going to have much of an effect at all, if your chances of getting, say, Damnation are already only (1/3) * (1/634) = 1/1902 out of a given chest. And that's assuming that there's a 1/3 chance of getting one of the curated list, and an equal probability of cards on the list. There is a (very small) chance of getting a good/valuable rare or mythic from the modern slot; Gatherer says there's 3276 cards in Modern that are of that rarity. Granted, Gatherer is pulling some weird reprints with rarity shifts that skew the list a bit, but not that many. Basically, the EV of these things is low.
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Sep 29, 2016 19:18
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BaronVonVaderham posted:It means penis (from Yiddish, diminutive). Languages are fun. Yiddish is great because it's everything you'd expect a language spoken by Borscht Belt octogenarians to be. My great-grandmother was especially fond of telling people to gai kakhen afenyam ("go poo poo in the ocean"). On-topic: It's incredibly as expected of MODO that they were able to put this whole treasure chest thing nobody was asking for together, but 8-4 draft leagues are delayed indefinitely until they can figure out how to make the league code let them.
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Sep 29, 2016 19:18
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Minority Deport posted:Basically, the EV of these things is low.
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Sep 29, 2016 19:23
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Anil Dasharez0ne posted:Yiddish is great because it's everything you'd expect a language spoken by Borscht Belt octogenarians to be. My great-grandmother was especially fond of telling people to gai kakhen afenyam ("go poo poo in the ocean") Yiddish is great because it is basically drunk German. On Topic: I don't play on MODO, but I probably should since my options for drafting these days is asymptomatically approaching zero.
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Sep 29, 2016 19:46
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:You clearly didn't read it either. Every one gets the rare (or something better). One in 5 gets a second one. You are right, I erred on that. However, your entire argument appears to assume that the incidence of the random rares/curated cards is equivalent to the rate of getting Play Points. There's also the fact that the curated list is full of cards that see Modern and Legacy play but aren't worth anything. Someone will figure out the EV of the chests, but I highly doubt its going to be high enough to crash the economy. Also, why is every Sword except Body and Mind on the curated list? Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Sep 29, 2016 |
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Sep 29, 2016 20:02
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Because SoBaM is utter trash in everything that isn't a limited format.
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Sep 29, 2016 20:20
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The Shortest Path posted:Because SoBaM is utter trash in everything that isn't a limited format. I don't think I've ever seen anyone play Sword of War and Peace, either.
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Sep 29, 2016 20:38
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Angry Grimace posted:I don't think I've ever seen anyone play Sword of War and Peace, either. War and Peace saw play in GR aggro in Scars/Innistrad standard
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Sep 29, 2016 20:42
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Angry Grimace posted:I don't think I've ever seen anyone play Sword of War and Peace, either. SoWaP was good in standard delver mirrors because it had protection from geist.
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Sep 29, 2016 20:43
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W&P is good, just not as good as F&I or F&F and L&S works better as a pro-white sword due to the raise dead effect.
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Sep 29, 2016 21:13
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Skyl3lazer posted:Welcome to the
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Sep 29, 2016 22:02
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Mystic Mongol posted:As a non mtgo player I'm confused--what are people losing now that they're getting treasure chests? Are the entry fees to events going up? This seems like a announcement that every prize pool in constructed is getting bigger. So, currently, playing a Pauper League (5 matches, prizes based on number of wins) costs 80 Play Points (PP) or 8 Tickets (Tix) to enter. The prize payouts are: 5-0: 150 PP, 1 Eldritch Moon pack (~3.5 Tix), 1 Shadows over Innistrad pack (~2.5 Tix) 4-1: 120 PP, 1 Eldritch Moon pack (~3.5 Tix) 3-2: 80 PP 2-3: 40 PP 1-4: 20 PP 0-5: 10 PP So, go undefeated, get about two and a half entry fees back, including something you can trade for other cards. Go 4-1, get two entry fees back, including a quarter of that in tradable stuff. Go 3-2, you played 5 matches for free. Under the new system, if you go 3-2 you're getting one of these chests on top of what you would have gotten. If you go 4-1, you're trading 40 PP and a pack of the newest set for 3 chests. If you go 5-0, you're trading 70 PP and two packs for 8 chests. There is no possible way for this to be good for good players. If you play a lot, eventually you'll lose, and since going 5-0 or 4-1 doesn't build up your play points, you will eventually have to use tickets to enter events. If 8 chests are the equivalent of two packs and 70 PP, that means the EV in them is incredibly high, and if that's the case, most of the cards in them will go down in value until they're not worth anything. Sure, you might open eight chests and get a Tarmogoyf and a Rishadan Port, or you might open eighty chests and get ~400 play points and some bulk, and since the chests aren't tradable for some godforsaken reason, you don't get to even out the variance of that. Of course if this is a move towards getting rid of packs altogether, bring it the gently caress on Wizards. As it stands, it's awful, but if WotC actually invest in and help develop their game maybe --- okay you know what, this is just going to be a loving terrible thing, the friendly leagues are going to die and we'll all keep wondering exactly where it all went wrong. Note, competitive leagues seem acceptable - 120 PP to enter, 3-0 gets 120 PP and a chest, 4-1 gets 180 PP, 3 boosters, 3 chests, and 5-0 gets 180 PP, 6 boosters, 8 chests. Note that 5-0 gets 12 boosters now, 4-1 6 boosters, so that's a pretty steep conversion rate. Friendly 5-0: 8 chests = 70 PP, 2 Packs Friendly 4-1: 3 chests = 40 PP, 1 Pack Comp. 5-0: 8 chests = 6 Packs Comp. 4-1: 3 chests = 3 Packs if someone wants to do algebra and try to solve for X, taking into account the entry fee differences and an expected # of each record for a given number of players, we'll see how much WotC seems to value the chests, and I just don't see any way for the chests to have an EV higher than a ticket and a bit unless they reward large numbers of PP frequently.
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Sep 29, 2016 23:00
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unless chests are worth a little over a ticket each, i can't see this being good for anyone except 3-2 players. E:fb I don't really like the changes, and I'm really sad that I JUST dropped 60 tickets on a pauper deck. SSJ_naruto_2003 fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Sep 29, 2016 |
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Sep 29, 2016 23:05
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Apparently chests sometimes contain play points, so it's not like you're never building up a war chest. It's difficult to gauge the value of a chest without knowing the exact odds (which is probably the point), but I think in the long term the EV is going to even out not too far from where it is now. The biggest issue is that instead of getting guaranteed returns from constructed events, even after getting a winning record you just get a lottery ticket to find out what you actually earned. That variance isn't great for serious players, unless you're playing so much that you open enough boxes for it to even out.
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Sep 29, 2016 23:11
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BaronVonVaderham posted:It means penis (from Yiddish, diminutive). Languages are fun. What word in Yiddish that ended up in English doesn't mean penis?
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Sep 29, 2016 23:21
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mandatory lesbian posted:putz is such a good word, idk what it means but i like saying it i think that bozo is underused.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:14
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Hellsau posted:So, currently, playing a Pauper League (5 matches, prizes based on number of wins) costs 80 Play Points (PP) or 8 Tickets (Tix) to enter. The prize payouts are: Thanks a ton!
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Sep 30, 2016 00:15
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Yeah this actually cuts prize payouts for a lot of leagues.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:20
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