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It's muddled even in the assembly cut because what script they had at the time was an unrefined amalgamation of the monk planet and prison planet ones. This is actually used to interesting effect in the movie though. We learn they've all taken a vow of celibacy, but that that's bullshit because the second a woman enters their field of view a group of the prisoners* attempts to rape her. As the flick goes on more realize that their religion is bullshit, they didn't isolate to because of their lifestyle, they isolated themselves because they thought doing so would force this perceived-to-be-good lifestyle on them. Like Ripley and Clemens basically say outright in their conversation about the prisoners staying, it doesn't really matter what their faith is. What matters is these guys internalized the idea that a brutal prison system is cool and good, they've unwittingly embraced it looking for enlightenment, leading them to complete isolation from society, waiting for their apocalypse. HOWEVER, these guys are also all murderous trash, serial rapists, and psychos, the worst of the worst condemned to the far side of space by their own volition. When you read about the narcissism prevelant in serial killers/etc. that aspect of the plot makes more sense. OF COURSE these guys think they got it great in their own little world here. But the movie says otherwise, that their attempt at redemption is a joke if the price of cutting oneself off from society completely. Fincher takes those two seemingly very different script treatments to equate a monastic order and a (more relevantly now, a privately owned) prison system, and in doing so gives us a keen look into the type of person that would be a natural fit in either. We see that narcissism and authoritarian streak strongly at one point or anothet in every prisoner (and Andrews/84/Clemens) in the movie except for....Morse! The first character to finally volunteer for the final leadworks plan AND the only character who walks out with Bishop/etc. alive. *They are still prisoners. HOW they, as prisoners, had the agency to choose to stick around in a custodial role as the facility was winding down is never expanded upon but doesn't really matter much. Weyland Yutani figured it would be cheaper than paying real employees, the supply ship they send out is a rounding error and more than worth it to keep these guys out of society while keeping the pikot light on, whatever, it's not important. The important part is that they've embraced religion and that that's resulted in them.......being in even worse prison conditions. In general it's assumed the "keep the pilot light on" line is literal and they're there so like if a war breaks out or some major infrastructure somewhere is needed by the time WY people arrive the foundry is already active and ready to pump out stuff. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Sep 29, 2016 |
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Sep 29, 2016 15:16
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I had a sick-rear end dream where the Aliens turn up on Earth, but instead of just being the Aliens from the film, they were an intelligent species that expands by converting civilizations into Gigerian nightmare worlds via the black goo. The Xenomorph was just one of the flavors of shock trooper created by the invasion process. Now I really want to see that movie.
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Sep 30, 2016 09:23
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Thanks for sharing that fascinating insight.
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Sep 30, 2016 10:12
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I'm not sure that an intelligent alien species with whom humans can communicate would really fit into the Alien(s) world, honestly. In Aliens we learn that humans have met (and hosed) the friendly Arcturians, but they never actually appear on screen; from what I can tell the Xenomorphs are instead a malevolent force that, because of their fundamentally alien nature, stand in for whatever evil power or force of nature the filmmaker wants them to be in a particular story. Does that sound right?
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Sep 30, 2016 11:44
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Hodgepodge posted:I had a sick-rear end dream where the Aliens turn up on Earth, but instead of just being the Aliens from the film, they were an intelligent species that expands by converting civilizations into Gigerian nightmare worlds via the black goo. The Xenomorph was just one of the flavors of shock trooper created by the invasion process.
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Sep 30, 2016 12:16
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Martman posted:I'm just picturing Ivan Ooze from the Power Rangers Movie. I never realized that Paul Freeman played as both Belloch from Indiana Jones and Ivan Ooze.
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Sep 30, 2016 12:27
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blackguy32 posted:I never realized that Paul Freeman played as both Belloch from Indiana Jones and Ivan Ooze. Next time it will take more than teens with attitude to save you Dr. Jones!
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Sep 30, 2016 14:48
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I want an Alien vs. Predator vs. Indiana Jones movie.
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Sep 30, 2016 15:00
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Basebf555 posted:I want an Alien vs. Predator vs. Indiana Jones movie. I'm surprised Dark Horse never made this.
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Sep 30, 2016 19:32
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Indiana Jones picks up a dead alien tail and uses it as a whip
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Sep 30, 2016 19:39
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ruddiger posted:I'm surprised Dark Horse never made this. Licensing issues. Inter-company crossovers aren't particularly common with certain companies depending on how protective they are of their IP, even if both characters are being published by the same comic book company. Robocop Vs Terminator was a dream crossover that almost didn't happen, because the Terminator licensing rights are a constantly shifting maelstrom clusterfuck. Like there aren't any Marvel Vs Alien/Predator crossovers, but there's a bunch of DC ones (of varying quality).
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Sep 30, 2016 20:04
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Indiana Jones vs Predator: Indy picks up a Predator'a dreadlocks and uses it as a whip Indiana Jones vs Iron Man: Indy picks up Whiplash's whip and uses it as a whip Indiana Jones vs Ghost Rider: Indy ghost rides the whip
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Sep 30, 2016 20:51
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Temple of Doom was essentially Indiana Jones vs. Mondo Cane (even though, technically, the eating monkey brains thing I think was actually featured in one of the Faces of Death movies).
ruddiger fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 30, 2016 21:37
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What was most surprising to me about watching Alien v Predator for the first time was how similar its narrative beats were to Prometheus. I also found it passably enjoyable though the fact that I've put off watching it for 12 years since release should indicate how low my expectations were. Now onto the second one, which, is hated by pretty much everyone aside from SMG, right?
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Oct 16, 2016 22:07
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:What was most surprising to me about watching Alien v Predator for the first time was how similar its narrative beats were to Prometheus. Alien vs Predator and the sequel are two of the best movies of both franchises. It was either pointless action movie or horror schlock, take your pick!
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Oct 16, 2016 22:41
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:Now onto the second one, which, is hated by pretty much everyone aside from SMG, right? Right.
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Oct 16, 2016 22:43
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AVP-R is poo poo garbage gently caress.
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Oct 16, 2016 22:45
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AVPR is an amazing short film about a predator if you edit it down to about 20min and remove almost every scene with a human in it.
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Oct 17, 2016 00:11
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:What was most surprising to me about watching Alien v Predator for the first time was how similar its narrative beats were to Prometheus. AvPR has arguably the best (or at least most entertaining) Predator seen on-screen. He well and truly does not give a gently caress, and it's awesome to watch. And yeah, AvP and Prometheus share a ton of narrative beats, in no small part due to them both borrowing liberally from Lovecraft's 'At the Mountains of Madness'.
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Oct 17, 2016 00:46
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Skyline proves the Straus bros should stick to music videos and special effects. gently caress I hate that movie.
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Oct 17, 2016 01:12
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The part where the drones attack the ship with a nuke is cool but yeah that movie is dogshit
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Oct 17, 2016 01:46
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banned from Starbucks posted:The part where the drones attack the ship with a nuke is cool but yeah that movie is dogshit
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Oct 17, 2016 01:56
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Oh yeah the "lets end this movie with a powerpoint presentation" part.
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Oct 17, 2016 02:02
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banned from Starbucks posted:Oh yeah the "lets end this movie with a powerpoint presentation" part.
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Oct 17, 2016 02:10
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Beyond Skyline is supposed to be a hard-R action movie with Iko Uwais and Yayan Ruhian in it, but I'm not entirely sure if it's ever coming out. 
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Oct 17, 2016 03:39
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Xenomrph posted:If you go into AvPR expecting a schlock teen horror slasher, it's a pretty good time. If you go into it expecting a thoughtful, tense, well-executed sci-fi classic like 'Alien' or 'Predator', you're going to have a bad time. Ridley Scott just wanted to make an Ancient Alien movie. As you can see from Prometheus he did not think anything through.
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Oct 17, 2016 04:08
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I don't know, I feel like Prometheus is waaaaaaay better executed than AvP. Prometheus has more in common with Galaxy of Terror, Planet of the Vampires, and At the Mountains of Madness itself than it does with AvP. AvP is "like" At the Mountains of Madness in that a group of people follow esoteric clues to a weird place and they die, but it doesn't really have much going on in it beyond that premise and that cool rearranging floor trial area set. The movie's much less focused on horror and felt more like a generic adventure/survival kind of flick to me. Like outside of the ancient times flashback the aliens and predators in AvP could have been different dinosaurs from Jurassic Park, animals from the Riddick movies, or even different factions/tribes of regular humans and it wouldn't have made a huge difference to how things play out. Prometheus is honestly pretty out there for a big budget movie (though not as incredibly out there as its cheaper cousins Galaxy of Terror and Planet of the Vampires*) and while it only has a wall carving of a xenomorph and that early step in one at the ending, it has more bizarre stuff going on overall that makes it more successfully evocative of Alien and Lovecraft to me. *Both these movies own anyone that likes Alien or Prometheus should check them out.
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Oct 17, 2016 04:18
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Oh, by no means was I suggesting that they were of comparable quality. Prometheus is one of my favourite movies of the last few years and AvP is like a 3/5 and I'm being generous. However they do share a lot of the same narrative beats - showing us the characters before the journey - corporate briefing scene is identical - character building and tensions regarding journey en route - Weyland as driving force behind journey - Weyland's impending death underpins meaning of mission for him (and therefore the others) - journey to explore humanity's origin - cave paintings and ancient language - ancient aliens as force that guided humanity's development - claustrophobic pyramid/cave alien building as core setting, cold blue aesthetic - the two scientists who get trapped under the pyramid follow the same narrative arc as Milburn and Fifield in Prometheus - the setting the humans stumble upon is a weapons facility vs being a training facility - alien (Engineer/predator) can understand humans, but disdains them - female protagonist has a bodily connection to the alien (Dr Shaws birth sequence v Lex having an alien head for an arm and allying with the Predator) - showdown between two kinds of aliens allows human character to survive - climactic scenes outside alien facility - and finally, they have the same ending "gag" of the alien birth between two species Of course Prometheus is leagues ahead in writing, cinematography, performances, pacing, and it's overall feel as a robust movie that stands on its own two legs. And it explores a lot of themes AvP doesn't care about at all, such as AI. But, at the time I saw Prometheus I saw it as a film that returned to the roots and ideas of the original Alien while pushing those in a different direction, doing away with a lot of the franchise rut of shameless cash-ins and crossovers like AvP. Having seen it, my opinion hasn't really changed that much, but the similarities are nonetheless surprising.
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Oct 17, 2016 05:56
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Neo Rasa posted:I don't know, I feel like Prometheus is waaaaaaay better executed than AvP. Please rewatch the movie Prometheus, you may not leave your seat. Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Oct 17, 2016 |
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Oct 17, 2016 06:04
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Yeah, AvP and Prometheus's narratives are way, way more similar than they are different, I picked up on it really quickly while watching Prometheus for the first time and thought it was really interesting. And I'd definitely say both AvP and Prometheus draw really heavily from 'At the Mountains of Madness', and AvP is much more on the nose about it by literally setting the movie in Antarctica. Both movies have a team of scientists venturing into the unknown to explore ancient structures built by elder gods (who were overthrown by their own monstrous servants), and the scientists realize really quickly that there are certain things man is better off not knowing.
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Oct 17, 2016 06:10
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Tenzarin posted:Please rewatch the movie Prometheus, you may not leave your seat. AD 10/17/2016: The Prometheus Wars Began Again
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Oct 17, 2016 06:43
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Neo Rasa posted:AD 10/17/2016: The Prometheus Wars Began Again Maybe you should re-read the thread before you create any plaques, buddy.
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Oct 17, 2016 07:16
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Did we ever find out whether or not the Alien 3 Assembly Cut was loving awesome?
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Oct 17, 2016 22:43
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Lady Naga posted:Did we ever find out whether or not the Alien 3 Assembly Cut was loving awesome? Extremely yes.
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Oct 17, 2016 22:44
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Oh. What's this thread about now then
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Oct 17, 2016 22:46
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Lady Naga posted:Oh. What's this thread about now then There's a new Alien movie coming out next year called 'Alien: Covenant' which is a sequel to Prometheus and has a great cast. And we might also get an original series sequel with Sigourney Weaver and Michael Biehn headed by Blomkamp, maybe, if the project hasn't been entirely scrapped. Alien is back baby and let's talk about it
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Oct 18, 2016 00:11
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:There's a new Alien movie coming out next year called 'Alien: Covenant' which is a sequel to Prometheus and has a great cast. Cant wait to see Noomi Rapace in it. Maybe we will get some closure?
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Oct 18, 2016 00:14
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i'm one of those troglodytes that didn't like prometheus apart from the visuals but for some reason am very excited for convenant.
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Oct 18, 2016 00:17
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Tenzarin posted:Cant wait to see Noomi Rapace in it. Maybe we will get some closure? I'm glad she's back, but (potential spoilers for sequel) she was originally not going to be in the film and filmed all her scenes in only one week, so it is most likely she will be in a flashback/extended cameo/die in the opening sequence at best.
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Oct 18, 2016 00:17
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Tenzarin posted:Maybe we will get some closure? Ridley Scott made a movie about you and you don't even realize it.
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Oct 18, 2016 00:17
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