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China. China never changes. quote:American president John Quincy Adams commented that opium was "a mere incident to the dispute... the cause of the war is the kowtow—the arrogant and insupportable pretensions of China that she will hold commercial intercourse with the rest of mankind not upon terms of equal reciprocity, but upon the insulting and degrading forms of the relations between lord and vassal."
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Sep 30, 2016 16:15
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JazzmasterCurious posted:I just heard on the radio that a guy somewhere in China, accused of killing his parents, is also suspected of killing 17 of the neighbours to cover his tracks. https://www.japantoday.com/category/world/view/man-suspected-of-killing-parents-then-17-neighbors-in-china Grand Theft Auto: China viral marketing, perhaps?
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Sep 30, 2016 16:29
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McGavin posted:China. China never changes. A diplomat from Singapore speaks out how Chinese diplomats see the world. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/01/world/asia/china-singapore-diplomacy-bilahari-kausikan.html?_r=0 quote:If a negotiation in Southeast Asia does not suit China, he said, its diplomats blame the other party. “It is our fault, and ours alone,” he said, explaining China’s usual attitude toward members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, a regional group that includes Singapore and nine other countries.
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Sep 30, 2016 16:46
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Grand Fromage posted:It's an honest question there are cultural ideas that don't really translate to other cultures. Pettiness, being the bigger person, finding the thrower of a poo poo fit pathetic, these are all things that China doesn't seem to have and I don't know if it's just a completely foreign idea or what. I've read analyses that said that the concept of virtue/ethics in traditional Western/Catholic/Greco-Roman philosophy is inward focused, IE you should feel bad about doing a bad thing even if nobody else is around, whereas Confucian ethics was outward, as in things are only morally wrong if there are other people around to see them. That's a very simplified description, but that sounds like it could account for a lot of the stuff described in thread. It also doesn't preclude Chinese attitudes from changing in the future, as in Europe systems of ethics different from the old stuff like Kant or Utlitarians became a thing in the modern period and modern Europeans and Americans don't actually adhere to traditional Platonic ethics in reality That said though a lot of the stuff about Chinese people just being idiots/believing hilariously stupid things is probably just an artifact of bad education and the intellectual climate in the country icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 30, 2016 17:16
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National Week Holiday Update: Me to everyone I know in Shenzhen: "What are you doing during your holiday?" More than half of the people I know in Shenzhen: "Saturday going to Hong Kong." Me: "Why would you do that? That's what most of the city will be doing, and many people from neighboring provinces. It will be crowded as gently caress. Why not just go on a normal Saturday when it's not a holiday?" Them: "Holiday is a good time for travel." I know Saturday night I am going to hear so many complaints.
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Sep 30, 2016 17:21
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icantfindaname posted:It also doesn't preclude Chinese attitudes from changing in the future, as in Europe systems of ethics different from the old stuff like Kant or Utlitarians became a thing in the modern period and modern Europeans and Americans don't actually adhere to traditional Platonic ethics in reality Yeah, while a shitload of the stuff in these threads is very bad I think people here underestimate how much is just due to a rapidly developing country where a generation or two ago most of the population were farmers + cultural revolution and all. Maybe I'm wrong on this but I expect if you look at how it went in countries that are developed today there'd often be similar themes. The idea that modern Chinese culture and attitudes are gonna be stuck in the toilet for time eternal is pretty pessimistic. I mean of course when it's had a chance to get better, climate change is gonna mess everything up again but that's a different thing entirely
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Sep 30, 2016 17:32
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I had a lot of hope it was a development thing since so much of the crazy poo poo in China is so very similar to the crazy poo poo in the US in the 1800s, but then I was reading more Chinese history and the complaints you see from Europeans visiting in the 1700s/1800s are 90% exactly the same things that people are doing today. The Mao era didn't help but I don't think blaming it works either.
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Sep 30, 2016 17:41
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That's depressing then. Have any of you, by some chance, talked about cannibalism with modern Chinese people? E.g. what's the reaction to the tale (I think from Romance of the Three Kingdoms) where the guy chops up and cooks his wife so the visiting official won't go hungry and is lauded for it? P-Mack's posts about the indifference to cannibalism during the Taiping have been pretty alarming.
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Sep 30, 2016 17:59
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Consuming Counterrevolution: The Ritual and Culture of Cannibalism in Wuxuan, Guangxi, China, May to July 1968quote:People are eating each other, came the message from southern Guangxi to Peking in the early summer of 1968, as the violent phase of the Cultural Revolution was drawing to a close. When militia reinforcements arrived in Wuxuan, parts of decomposing corpses still festooned the town center (Zheng 1993:2–3). No proper investigation was conducted, however, for this was a county in which order had already been imposed and the rebels had been crushed. Only in 1981–83, long after the Gang of Four had collapsed, was an investigation team sent into the county. It compiled a list of those eaten and a number of the ringleaders in cannibalism. Fifteen were jailed, and 130 Party members and cadres were disciplined. The Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region announced the expulsion from the Party of all who had eaten human flesh. But the regulations were withdrawn quickly for fear that the document would be slipped out to Hong Kong and reveal this episode of cannibalism to the world (Zheng 1993:52).
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Sep 30, 2016 18:24
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McGavin posted:Consuming Counterrevolution: The Ritual and Culture of Cannibalism in Wuxuan, Guangxi, China, May to July 1968 "The Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region announced the expulsion from the Party of all who had eaten human flesh. But the regulations were withdrawn quickly for fear that the document would be slipped out to Hong Kong and reveal this episode of cannibalism to the world (Zheng 1993:52)." Better not do something worthwhile if it means people will find out about it.
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Sep 30, 2016 18:27
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Outrail posted:"The Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region announced the expulsion from the Party of all who had eaten human flesh. But the regulations were withdrawn quickly for fear that the document would be slipped out to Hong Kong and reveal this episode of cannibalism to the world (Zheng 1993:52)."
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Sep 30, 2016 18:31
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Koramei posted:That's depressing then. I don't know if "indifference" is the word. Stories and rumors about cannibalism spread widely precisely because they were horrifying and outside the norm. There does though seem to be more willingness to acknowledge that "yeah this is probably what's gonna happen when the food runs out." The cannibalism taboo is there, but it's not as much in a separate category than murder or theft or the hundred other bad things people do when they're desperate. I wonder if how highly developed and intensively cultivated China was played a role. Less dense areas people can scrounge the wilderness for mushrooms or whatever before jumping straight to eating corpses. Purely idle speculation on my part.
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Sep 30, 2016 18:38
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KomodoWagon posted:Every culture has its quirks, but nowhere in the world have I ever seen the total lack of emotional maturity and connection to the real world that people describe in China.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:13
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UltraRed posted:Not to be the "It happens in the US, too" guy, but alot of cultures consider throwing a public fit, causing a scene, or showing anger to be incredibly childish. Americans do alot of that. I wish people would stop trying to shoehorn Trump into every conversation.
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Sep 30, 2016 21:00
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P-Mack posted:I wonder if how highly developed and intensively cultivated China was played a role. Less dense areas people can scrounge the wilderness for mushrooms or whatever before jumping straight to eating corpses. Purely idle speculation on my part. There's something to that. Prior to industrialization, Chinese dynasties relied on a hugely complex logistical operation to gather food for consumption in the major cities. So when the food growing areas themselves were blighted or destroyed the whole nation would starve and the emperor would lose his mandate to rule. Meanwhile, Mao locked up all the grain in storehouses to use as exports in order to purchase industrial equipment for his international dick-measuring contest against the British. quote:In Xinyang, people starved at the doors of the grain warehouses. As they died, they shouted, "Communist Party, Chairman Mao, save us". If the granaries of Henan and Hebei had been opened, no one need have died. As people were dying in large numbers around them, officials did not think to save them. Their only concern was how to fulfill the delivery of grain.
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Sep 30, 2016 21:39
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Cultural Revolution was a seriously hosed up time:Tales of Cannibalism in Modern China posted:The Cultural Revolution also bore witness to cannibalism, as documented in writer and political activist Zheng Yi’s Scarlet Memorial: Tales of Cannibalism in Modern China. Within the book’s covers, Zheng Yi describes how the movement, which appears to have started in Guangxi, developed in three stages. The translation is somewhat rudimentary.
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Sep 30, 2016 21:55
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Meatgrinder posted:What am I looking at here? Door to door cleaver salesman.
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Sep 30, 2016 22:31
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Chinese man 'killed 17 neighbours to cover up murder of parents'quote:A Chinese man has confessed to killing his parents in an argument over money and then killing 17 neighbours in an attempt to cover up his crime, state media reported.
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Sep 30, 2016 22:53
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Bro Dad posted:There's something to that. Prior to industrialization, Chinese dynasties relied on a hugely complex logistical operation to gather food for consumption in the major cities. So when the food growing areas themselves were blighted or destroyed the whole nation would starve and the emperor would lose his mandate to rule. Meanwhile, Mao locked up all the grain in storehouses to use as exports in order to purchase industrial equipment for his international dick-measuring contest against the British. I heard once that China had the money to import food but suffered an embargo by capitalist countries, which is basically the opposite of what was said here. I'm less inclined to believe that due to how well it fits the chinese propaganda machine but I could certainly see capitalist countries during the cold war loving china over on purpose too
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Sep 30, 2016 23:06
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I've always wondered about this, but how the hell do these guys get caught in places where there are 20 million people and no one gives a poo poo who you are? Like if you just show up to Random Third Tier City #12 and say your name is Wang Min, how the gently caress do the authorities catch these guys?
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Sep 30, 2016 23:22
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nerdz posted:I heard once that China had the money to import food but suffered an embargo by capitalist countries, which is basically the opposite of what was said here. Lol. China's biggest trading partner at the time was loving Japan and Mao even thanked them for helping weaken the Nationalists
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Sep 30, 2016 23:23
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Yeah, I mean, there WAS a trade embargo against china that covered most food products. What I don't really know is if China could actually afford to import food or if it even was trying to
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Sep 30, 2016 23:30
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nerdz posted:Yeah, I mean, there WAS a trade embargo against china that covered most food products. What I don't really know is if China could actually afford to import food or if it even was trying to they did the opposite Mao's Great Famine posted:Beijing government officials, including Zhou Enlai and Mao, increased the food procurement quota from the countryside to pay for international imports. According to Dikötter, "In most cases the party knew very well that it was starving its own people to death." Mao was quoted as saying in Shanghai in 1959: “When there is not enough to eat people starve to death. It is better to let half of the people die so that the other half can eat their fill.”
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Sep 30, 2016 23:38
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nerdz posted:I heard once that China had the money to import food but suffered an embargo by capitalist countries, which is basically the opposite of what was said here. I'm less inclined to believe that due to how well it fits the chinese propaganda machine but I could certainly see capitalist countries during the cold war loving china over on purpose too lol, no. China was exporting massive amounts of rice by trains to Soviet Union during mass starvation. China and Soviet Union had trade deal where Soviet Union exported thed them know-how, education, factory equipment, bridges, engineers etc in order to build up China. even Nuclear bomb technology was packaged in there.. According to he agreement, Soviet Union would front-load all the investment immediately and China would pay it back over a long time by food exports. DUring starvation, Mao suddenly decided to pay back the loans quickly and within few years. quote:Chinese Communist Party continued to deny there was a food problem. In fact, ''China rebuffed all offers of assistance, even those by neutral international bodies such as the League of Red Cross Societies.'' Even worse, Mr. Becker reports, ''over the three years from 1958 China doubled her grain exports and cut her imports of food. Exports to the Soviet Union rose by 50 percent and China delivered grain gratis to her friends in North Korea, North Vietnam and Albania.'' quote:During 1958–1960 China continued to be a substantial net exporter of grain, despite the widespread famine experienced in the countryside, as Mao sought to maintain face and convince the outside world of the success of his plans. Foreign aid was refused. When the Japanese foreign minister told his Chinese counterpart Chen Yi of an offer of 100,000 tonnes of wheat to be shipped out of public view, he was rebuffed. gently caress Mao.
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Sep 30, 2016 23:43
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So not only was there not a food embargo, but China specifically rejected offers of food assistance while actively exported large amounts of food at the time they were starving. That's so Mao.
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Sep 30, 2016 23:48
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Chomp8645 posted:So not only was there not a food embargo, but China specifically rejected offers of food assistance while actively exported large amounts of food at the time they were starving. Taking food offered by filthy imperialist pigdogs would clearly be spitting in the face of the worker's state and what it stands for For all Mao sucked though, at least he wasn't a Chinese nationalist
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Oct 1, 2016 00:04
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B.B. Rodriguez posted:I've always wondered about this, but how the hell do these guys get caught in places where there are 20 million people and no one gives a poo poo who you are? Like if you just show up to Random Third Tier City #12 and say your name is Wang Min, how the gently caress do the authorities catch these guys? "it's not my problem, I should not get involved"
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Oct 1, 2016 00:20
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B.B. Rodriguez posted:I've always wondered about this, but how the hell do these guys get caught in places where there are 20 million people and no one gives a poo poo who you are? Like if you just show up to Random Third Tier City #12 and say your name is Wang Min, how the gently caress do the authorities catch these guys? I'd guess the dude was insane if he killed everyone to cover up killing his parents (that could have been rational). I doubt he had the presence of mind to just walk away and make a clean break.
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Oct 1, 2016 00:28
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Koramei posted:Yeah, while a shitload of the stuff in these threads is very bad I think people here underestimate how much is just due to a rapidly developing country where a generation or two ago most of the population were farmers + cultural revolution and all. Maybe I'm wrong on this but I expect if you look at how it went in countries that are developed today there'd often be similar themes. The idea that modern Chinese culture and attitudes are gonna be stuck in the toilet for time eternal is pretty pessimistic. China has been an emerging economy and developing country for 500 years.
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Oct 1, 2016 00:31
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B.B. Rodriguez posted:I've always wondered about this, but how the hell do these guys get caught in places where there are 20 million people and no one gives a poo poo who you are? Like if you just show up to Random Third Tier City #12 and say your name is Wang Min, how the gently caress do the authorities catch these guys? Jeoh posted:"it's not my problem, I should not get involved"
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Oct 1, 2016 00:32
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Tupperwarez posted:And we're only half-joking when we say that. http://www.danwei.com/serial-killers-in-china/ More recently, in September 2011, Chinese journalists began arriving in the city of Luoyang in Henan. The story they were following was grim, if familiar: Gangs selling “hogwash” or “gutter” oil, recycled from restaurant drains, had been busted with 100 tons of the stuff in Shandong, Zhejiang and Henan. Authorities were touting it as a major safety initiative but many suspected there was more to the official version. After crusading local television journalist Li Xiang, who broke the story, let his Weibo followers know he was “following illegal cooking oil dens closely,” he was found dead – stabbed 13 times outside his apartment in the early hours of a Sunday morning. The police insisted this was nothing more than an unfortunate coincidence. Rather than being silenced by shadowy interests, Li Xiang was simply the victim of a botched mugging: two local ruffians were subsequently charged with robbery and murder. Ji Xuguang, a reporter with Southern Metropolis Daily, one of China’s most progressive newspapers, was also in town to see if, like the gutter-oil story, there was more to Luoyang and Li’s death than its ongoing Civilized City campaign would have him believe. In fact, there was something going on but it had nothing to do with Li Xiang. Police had received information from the relative of a woman who claimed to have escaped from an “underground sex dungeon.” Five other women had also been held captive, tortured and raped; two were now dead, though at whose hands is somewhat disputed. Their gaoler was Li Hao, 34, a former fireman and employee at the technological supervision bureau in Luoyang who had spent the past 22 months cruising karaoke bars in Luoyang picking up victims, while his wife thought he was working as a part-time night watchman. man that changed gears p quickly
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Oct 1, 2016 01:07
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Tupperwarez posted:And we're only half-joking when we say that. http://www.danwei.com/serial-killers-in-china/ Goddamn, that's a grim read.
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Oct 1, 2016 01:24
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B.B. Rodriguez posted:I've always wondered about this, but how the hell do these guys get caught in places where there are 20 million people and no one gives a poo poo who you are? Like if you just show up to Random Third Tier City #12 and say your name is Wang Min, how the gently caress do the authorities catch these guys? its one of those things where some sick gently caress could wipe out a village or two and the local authority wouldnt notice. Chinese stories always sound like poo poo out of Megacity 1. millions of people either doing awful back breaking labor(making products for fat fucks like us) for poo poo money or they are living boring petty consumerist lives and always outraged about bullshit. accidents and crimes happen every other day killing a ton of people in large numbers and people dont really care. the criminals(violent or political) are killed quickly and their bodies used by the state or sold to some loving weird dutch rear end in a top hat.
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Oct 1, 2016 01:41
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Man, cannibalism in China must suck. I mean, you've already got a moral crisis on your hands, and on top of everything, you have to worry about contaminated food.
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Oct 1, 2016 02:27
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quote:“The police refused to give any information,” she told me. “They either said, ‘It’s still under investigation,’ or ‘I know nothing about that. The leader in charge isn’t here’ or ‘Give us a fax about your questions’ and then they totally ignored the fax.” Chinese government bureaus are possibly the only ones that still routinely direct official inquiries to be delivered via fax, a neat trick that abrogates any responsibility for answering.
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Oct 1, 2016 02:36
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I can't wait for the inevitable nationalist BS to follow. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37516098 quote:Three Chinese fishermen have died in a fire after their boat was boarded by the South Korean coastguard.
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Oct 1, 2016 02:48
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Dapper_Swindler posted:its one of those things where some sick gently caress could wipe out a village or two and the local authority wouldnt notice. Chinese stories always sound like poo poo out of Megacity 1. millions of people either doing awful back breaking labor(making products for fat fucks like us) for poo poo money or they are living boring petty consumerist lives and always outraged about bullshit. accidents and crimes happen every other day killing a ton of people in large numbers and people dont really care. the criminals(violent or political) are killed quickly and their bodies used by the state or sold to some loving weird dutch rear end in a top hat. China is exactly like the dystopian future as predicted by 80's movies.
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Oct 1, 2016 02:53
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oohhboy posted:I can't wait for the inevitable nationalist BS to follow. I'm so angry I'm going to smash a Korean made car.
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Oct 1, 2016 02:57
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Ceciltron posted:eat face?, eat face!, face!?, face!!!.
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Oct 1, 2016 03:05
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oohhboy posted:I can't wait for the inevitable nationalist BS to follow. people in China on a daily basis will cheat each other, fight each other, hit each other and then run over the person to make sure they are dead. They will lie and ignore people in need because it isn't their problem. They will sell fake rice to make a few bucks. They will literally poison food to save money. God forbid someone from a foreign country do this though. A national humiliation. South Korea has long humiliated the Chinese. We must not take it!
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Oct 1, 2016 03:27
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