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splifyphus posted:Yeah, I guess. I would have thought that the intention was to make tech/civic progression both more dynamic and more tied to actual game board circumstances and decisions. At the moment it's doing the opposite of both, in addition making the industrial revolution happen in about 1200 AD. Is it making the tech progression go this fast? That's hilarious. Is it balanced so that the AI are hitting all the eurekas too and keeping apace, or is it just something you can do as a player to throw the balance of the game completely off?
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Sep 30, 2016 17:12
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Jesus, In Marbozir's third video he declares a joint war on Spain with England. England is enthusiastic enough about it that they pay him a bunch of money for the privilege. The next turn, literally every other civ he's met wardecs him, including England!
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Sep 30, 2016 17:14
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Apraxin posted:Jesus, In Marbozir's third video he declares a joint war on Spain with England. England is enthusiastic enough about it that they pay him a bunch of money for the privilege. The next turn, literally every other civ he's met wardecs him, including England! Warmonger penalties are a dumb thing that needs to either die or be massively adjusted.
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Sep 30, 2016 17:20
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Magil Zeal posted:Warmonger penalties are a dumb thing that needs to either die or be massively adjusted. They realy need to change it to work more like agressive expansion in EU4 where only people who border you, or the target, or who share a religion with the target get a warmonger penalty with you. Also have your allies get a greatly reduced penalty.
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Sep 30, 2016 17:30
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Peas and Rice posted:Am I doing something wrong on the GMG thing? It took $2.40 off the deluxe version for me. Quoting for new page.
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Sep 30, 2016 17:37
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Apraxin posted:Jesus, In Marbozir's third video he declares a joint war on Spain with England. England is enthusiastic enough about it that they pay him a bunch of money for the privilege. The next turn, literally every other civ he's met wardecs him, including England! Yeah I was gonna post about this, made things interesting. Still only prince of course, so he'll handle it. Since people were talking about whose videos to watch, Marbozir is great. Definitely my go to for Civ. Looks like he's gonna milk this series though and not put out like 8 videos per day.
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Sep 30, 2016 17:37
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Peas and Rice posted:Quoting for new page. The vip3 code only takes off an additional 3% on top of the 22% discount they're offering (you have to have a gmg account for the 22% discount). So it's $45 for the standard edition and about $60 for deluxe
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Sep 30, 2016 17:53
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Magil Zeal posted:Warmonger penalties are a dumb thing that needs to either die or be massively adjusted. I don't think its warmonger penalties because Marbozir specifically says that they don't exist in his current era and you can see on the diplomacy screen that the warmonger penalty for declaring a surprise war is "none." It looks weird but its possible that one of the other civs could have paid England to declare war.
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Sep 30, 2016 18:04
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The AI can smell weakness.
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Sep 30, 2016 18:06
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I'd be pretty happy with murder happy AI. The AI wasn't aggressive enough in Civ 5.
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Sep 30, 2016 18:07
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Glass of Milk posted:The vip3 code only takes off an additional 3% on top of the 22% discount they're offering (you have to have a gmg account for the 22% discount). So it's $45 for the standard edition and about $60 for deluxe Huh. I didn't log in until after I had Civ 6 in my cart, so it was charging me full price. Logging out, clearing my cart, logging in, then adding it worked. Thanks!
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Sep 30, 2016 18:10
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How much power do mods have to change the AI?
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Sep 30, 2016 18:30
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Apraxin posted:Jesus, In Marbozir's third video he declares a joint war on Spain with England. England is enthusiastic enough about it that they pay him a bunch of money for the privilege. The next turn, literally every other civ he's met wardecs him, including England! Oh man, not this again. I had hopes for the agenda system.
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Sep 30, 2016 18:47
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Apraxin posted:Jesus, In Marbozir's third video he declares a joint war on Spain with England. England is enthusiastic enough about it that they pay him a bunch of money for the privilege. The next turn, literally every other civ he's met wardecs him, including England! Maybe this is intended and there was a worldwide conspiracy to draw him in to their trap, then everyone declares war.  It's not though.
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Sep 30, 2016 18:55
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Having watched further on, the war lasted about 5 turns and Marb was able to white peace with all of them having killed maybe two or three enemy units. England actually payed him for peace, and then accepted a declaration of friendship shortly after. No idea if this is pre-release build fuckery or a deliberate attempt to make early war frequent but not too threatening and without long-term consequences. Apraxin fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 30, 2016 19:01
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BattleHamster posted:I don't think its warmonger penalties because Marbozir specifically says that they don't exist in his current era and you can see on the diplomacy screen that the warmonger penalty for declaring a surprise war is "none." It looks weird but its possible that one of the other civs could have paid England to declare war. I stand corrected then, I wasn't able to view the video at that time. It would also be weird if they bribed every other Civ into declaring war, but there you are. Pretty darned weird whatever the circumstance.
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Sep 30, 2016 19:25
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Magil Zeal posted:I stand corrected then, I wasn't able to view the video at that time. It would also be weird if they bribed every other Civ into declaring war, but there you are. This is why I hope they eventually work the gossip and spy system into that explains this kind of stuff. I'd like to eventually figure out a reason for the war even if that reason is thought they could take you, wanted to be popular, or desperation. I just need to know that it's not random code firing around, and I can accept it better.
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Sep 30, 2016 19:29
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Magil Zeal posted:I stand corrected then, I wasn't able to view the video at that time. It would also be weird if they bribed every other Civ into declaring war, but there you are. Could just be that they've made the AI more opportunistic and reactionary, particularly early on when warmonger penalties aren't a thing yet. So that could have lead to a snowballing effect where one civ saw the player as an easy target due to already being a war and declared, then the next one saw him as an even easier target because he's in a 2v1 war and declares, then the next one jumps in because now it's a 3v1, and so on until everyone was involved. Perestroika fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 30, 2016 19:30
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To be fair to the AI I have jumped into wars I have zero interest or stakes in to see if I can get a handful of gold from the ai to get a peace treaty. 
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Sep 30, 2016 19:39
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I think they're trying to make it so that early wars are common, but they're not necessarily wars of extermination. Beat up a couple units, get some pillaging, and then dust yourselves off, shake hands, and go back to business as normal for a while. It's just that these are strong players on prince, so of course they're going to steamroll the AI when it gets uppity.
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Sep 30, 2016 19:53
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Tendales posted:I think they're trying to make it so that early wars are common, but they're not necessarily wars of extermination. Beat up a couple units, get some pillaging, and then dust yourselves off, shake hands, and go back to business as normal for a while. I don't think so: “First of all you get NO warmonger diplomatic penalty at all for making war in the Ancient Era. The penalty phases in and starts to get significant around the Renaissance, but that’s when the new Casus Belli system comes fully into play.” - Ed Beach
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Sep 30, 2016 19:58
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Gort posted:I don't think so: AKA the Montezuma Exemption.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:01
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Gort posted:I don't think so: Right, I think people are misunderstanding that. I think it's not that the AI will never get mad at you in the Ancient Era at all, what that ACTUALLY means is that everyone is expected to kind of rough and tumble around for no reason whatsoever in the Ancient Era, but no one will hold any of that against you in the long term. So in these streams, the AIs aren't attacking because of snowballing warmonger penalties, they're just attacking because they're assholes and they want to see if you can take a punch.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:12
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oh btw can still offer anybody a 5% off gmg thing in addition to the 25% you get off for using the VIP3 code after logging in to the site if anybody is interested in that.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:22
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So I've been watching some prerelease gameplay and so far this seems kinda... bad? The UI feels like it's taken steps back in basically everything, providing less information with less convenience and transparency compared to V. The trade UI seems awful, I haven't seen anything that showed cultural border expansion, and even basic things like seeing happiness or even just the buildings you've already completed are nested into deeper menus and mouseovers. Districts could be interesting, but the way adjacency bonuses are set up make me worried that the rng of start locations will be even more front and center in this game. Add in the bonuses for meeting city states first and the wild variation in the power levels of ruin rewards and it feels like a lot of the game might be decided by how lucky you get early. Most of all it seems really slow. Moving looks slow, building looks slow, building districts that are required to build other buildings looks really slow. Maybe playing on quick will be better, but I'm worried that will just make the slow movement even worse. I could be completely wrong, I haven't been following all the prerelease hype, just watched a couple of videos. But as someone who's put an absurd amount of time into V, what I've seen has definitely put me off preordering. The game just looks like a chore to play right now.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:30
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Tendales posted:Right, I think people are misunderstanding that. I think it's not that the AI will never get mad at you in the Ancient Era at all, what that ACTUALLY means is that everyone is expected to kind of rough and tumble around for no reason whatsoever in the Ancient Era, but no one will hold any of that against you in the long term. Monty. Shaka. Genghis. Harald. Alexander (preemptive). That's just Civ5. I think this is less "you're expected to fight for no reason" than "No one will hold it against you if you wipe out an rear end in a top hat who started much too close to you."
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Sep 30, 2016 20:32
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way to go steve posted:basic things like seeing happiness Happiness is done on the city level now (and is handled by "we need X amenities!" for the most part) so that's why you have to look at cities. I think you get pop ups, from what I've seen, on the sidebar if a city is getting low but I'm not 100% sure because anyone I watch play these games constantly ignores them.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:45
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way to go steve posted:So I've been watching some prerelease gameplay and so far this seems kinda... bad? The UI feels like it's taken steps back in basically everything, providing less information with less convenience and transparency compared to V. The trade UI seems awful, I haven't seen anything that showed cultural border expansion, and even basic things like seeing happiness or even just the buildings you've already completed are nested into deeper menus and mouseovers. Have you been playing V with UI mods, because I hate V due to difficulty of getting information. VI looks much more convenient to find information to me. I know where to look for everything you mentioned just from videos I've seen. The problem with watching the prerelease players is that all of them seem like they are trying to make out what is on their screen after staring into the sun for 20 seconds. The map thing you mentioned is actually what they are going for though. They are trying to make sure that there isn't a standard build order any more. You have to change your strategy according to the land you are on, and they give you more paths to take in order to do that. Whether that works out in practice is yet to be seen, but people who have played it feel like it works so far. This latest batch of videos is terrible, but I'm pretty sure it is the players' faults. I can see it putting you off if you haven't been following the game. Give it a little more time.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:48
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Watching the Yogscast play this game has been interesting. They're usually pretty bumbling but fairly amusing. But here they decided to play Norway and roleplay it, so they immediately researched sailing, built a longship, and started looking for targets. Unfortunately for Victoria, she was on the next island over and... they basically took London with a single longship. It was pretty funny, though slightly worrying as it's not clear what the English could have done to stop them. They're also playing with fast movement and quick turn speed if anyone wants to see what a quicker more casual game looks like. way to go steve posted:Districts could be interesting, but the way adjacency bonuses are set up make me worried that the rng of start locations will be even more front and center in this game. Add in the bonuses for meeting city states first and the wild variation in the power levels of ruin rewards and it feels like a lot of the game might be decided by how lucky you get early. I'm not sure entirely how I feel about that, but at the very least it seems like it will add to replayability. And it's not like it's that hard to just start over if you get a really garbage start.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:48
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I didn't realize the game was out next month! I can't wait, I've loved the series since 3 (but only stopped sucking at 5 ). Any chance colonies made a comeback? I loved that mechanic in 4.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:58
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RBA Starblade posted:I didn't realize the game was out next month! I can't wait, I've loved the series since 3 (but only stopped sucking at 5 Not exactly, but they try to simulate the idea of colonization. Many civs get certain bonuses for interacting with continents that don't contain their capital, and there is a casus belli for conquering civs that are 2 or more eras behind you. So not much like 4, but the idea of actually implementing some colonization ideas is there.
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Sep 30, 2016 21:04
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The Human Crouton posted:Not exactly, but they try to simulate the idea of colonization. Many civs get certain bonuses for interacting with continents that don't contain their capital, and there is a casus belli for conquering civs that are 2 or more eras behind you. So not much like 4, but the idea of actually implementing some colonization ideas is there. Oh nice, that should scratch that itch. I guess that mechanic where other civs could become vassals isn't coming back then either? I always found it a bit annoying in 5 that you're basically Ultra Hitler if you finish them off, leaving a lovely little city or two that exist just to pop in and tell you you're a dick. e: Then again with colonizing, I usually take over my own continent, then make a fleet and my first "colony" is whichever city I happen to sack and take first to use as a harbor.  How many of you guys play Civ in multi? I used to with friends, but switched to AI team comp stomps because I typically took a friend out in the ancient era because I was for some reason the only one with an army. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 30, 2016 21:07
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Apraxin posted:Jesus, In Marbozir's third video he declares a joint war on Spain with England. England is enthusiastic enough about it that they pay him a bunch of money for the privilege. The next turn, literally every other civ he's met wardecs him, including England! The turn after that Germany (who already hated him) and England (his ally) declared war. I would assume this had something to do with the fact that he had like three military units and was numerically outclassed by Spain alone, so once Tomyris declared war on top of that there was blood in the water. It's possible Germany bribed England, or England might have just been too tempted by how utterly outclassed the guy was (on paper). It's not as crazy as it seems at first, and mainly seems to be a product of the lack of consequences for ancient wars. Why not dogpile? There's no diplomatic penalty and it's not like Greece (the player) was in a position to do much damage to any of them.
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Sep 30, 2016 21:26
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So Marbozir took a city and the game helpfully told him how much warmonger penalty he would get from keeping it, in yellow text on the white background. 
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Sep 30, 2016 21:29
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Cythereal posted:AKA the Montezuma Exemption. Or the Attila Exemption! Man he was a great rush faction in V.
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Sep 30, 2016 21:42
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Poil posted:So Marbozir took a city and the game helpfully told him how much warmonger penalty he would get from keeping it, in yellow text on the white background. There were other instances of yellow text on white background that, as far as I can tell, are now gone. They probably haven't finished the last bit of polish.
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Sep 30, 2016 22:04
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How's the actual warfare AI/system looking? Less prone to being chumped than V?
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Sep 30, 2016 22:13
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So is there any penalty at all to discourage infinite city spam? I was trying to work it out and couldn't find a major one. Settlers have an increasing cost the more you've built, and districts have an increasing cost the more you built, but does the number of cities matter? It seems like it's always worthwhile to throw out an extra settler to fill any gaps you can find, as even a really bad city seems to be purely beneficial, no matter how marginal that benefit may be. Settlers would have to get pretty drat expensive to discourage city spamming. Luxuries get distributed to the four cities that need them most, but tiny cities don't need many luxuries to remain happy, so they wouldn't get allocated any at the cost of core cities.
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Sep 30, 2016 22:17
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The Human Crouton posted:Have you been playing V with UI mods, because I hate V due to difficulty of getting information. VI looks much more convenient to find information to me. I know where to look for everything you mentioned just from videos I've seen. The problem with watching the prerelease players is that all of them seem like they are trying to make out what is on their screen after staring into the sun for 20 seconds. I've never used UI mods for V. It's really a lot of the little things that are putting me off. The multiple tabs in city management when V handled everything in one, not showing cultural border expansion, making it more difficult to tell when a tile is locked down, making the beginning of turn notifications smaller and greyscale for no reason. I'm sure I can get used to it, but it seems like a lot of unnecessary steps back. These games are very much menu driven, and so far to me the menus in VI seem cluttered and unintuitive, requiring a lot more clicking and scrolling for no benefit. It's possible I'm being too hard on it. Maybe the new systems are enough better to make up for it. Right now it all looks very cumbersome to me, so I think I'm firmly in the 'wait and see' camp.
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Sep 30, 2016 22:18
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way to go steve posted:I've never used UI mods for V. It's really a lot of the little things that are putting me off. The multiple tabs in city management when V handled everything in one, not showing cultural border expansion, making it more difficult to tell when a tile is locked down, making the beginning of turn notifications smaller and greyscale for no reason. I'm sure I can get used to it, but it seems like a lot of unnecessary steps back. These games are very much menu driven, and so far to me the menus in VI seem cluttered and unintuitive, requiring a lot more clicking and scrolling for no benefit. There are popups indicating when it's a good idea to check these screens too so it's not like you need to constantly keep an eye on them. The UI is actually pretty darn good at displaying all the information from what I've seen. It's just there's some more relevant information on the city level now, with the addition of housing and global happiness being replaced with local amenities. Some of the issues (like the little grey popup indicators) might also be because you're watching these things in little relatively low res youtube windows rather than high resolution fullscreen. You will have to relearn some things that look different, but I don't think the new designs are particularly difficult to make out. I'm used to them and I've just watched a bunch of youtube videos. Not showing cultural expansion is the only thing you've mentioned I'd really agree with. I hope they add that in before release.
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Sep 30, 2016 22:29
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