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Phi230 posted:Well I already paid for this year so all other things aside I might as well stick around Stop going to class. Get a job, even a poo poo job, to mitigate the opportunity cost. Drop out at the end of the semester to push your loan deferment out as far as possible. If the pressure on you is your wife expects a big payday, what's going to happen if you don't get that payday (a near certainty)?
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Sep 30, 2016 16:19
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Pook Good Mook posted:Phi - Do you have anyone you like with the firm you got no offered at?
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Sep 30, 2016 16:21
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CaptainScraps posted:Do you have anyone you like with the firm you got no offered at? It's complicated but yes. It's a bit of a "woe is me" story, but he was in the law school and came up to me to say hi. He was super chill and couldn't understand why I didn't get offered. He actually wrote a letter of recommendation for me, all I need to do is contact his secretary and they'll edit the "To" line. I actually like a lot of people I worked with, the guy who called with the bad news was so confused by the firm's decision he had called the judge I worked with 2 summers ago to talk with her and they were also confused by the complaints he'd had. I didn't add but I'm making things a bit harder for myself than I need to with my job search. I took four years off between undergrad and law school. I grew up in New England, moved to Los Angeles, then went to Law School at Iowa (so if any Iowa students are on here, my cover is blown, see you at tailgating tomorrow). I say "making things harder for myself" because I'm not really looking at jobs in Iowa. The firm' s stated reason for not hiring me was absolute nonsense about work product. In my heart I know the real reason is because I didn't fit with the firm's culture. I didn't appreciate in our 2L interviews how conservative (not just politically) the firm operated. In some ways they "hid" the culture of the firm behind the cool people they send out to do the hiring interviews. The reason they guy who wrote my letter of recommendation was even in the building was because he was there to do interviews of 3Ls. I have no interest working with Iowa firms. I had a good feeling I didn't want to work at a firm from the time I started law school but I tried to make a long-term decision and within a few weeks I was already unhappy with the firm. Frankly, they did me a favor. As the saying goes, "You can still fail doing the things you don't want to do, so why not fail at the thing you want to do?" With that in mind I'm only applying to places in New England and government opportunities. I know I'm limiting myself, but I've already made a wrong decision for the right reasons. Ideally I'd like to work in criminal litigation. I knew that a year ago and it's more clear now. I have a callback interview with a public defender office in New England in 2 weeks. That's the job I really want, though I do have more things in the pipeline. I wouldn't say I'm panicking, but things are definitely stressful. That's an exceedingly long answer to a straightforward question, sorry. Needed to vent to someone other than my girlfriend and heaven forbid law students show empathy
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Sep 30, 2016 16:37
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Phi, lost in the talk about jobs and unemployment and opportunity cost, the other critical point is that if you can't handle the stress of law school then you cannot handle the practice of law. Even if you get a job it will kill you. The stress does not get better it only gets worse. The practice of law is inherently stressful. Other people are depending on you as a lawyer to do very serious and meaningful things. Exams are definitely stressful but ultimately you can only ever hurt yourself. Try doing a criminal trial. Or a refugee hearing. Try doing removal hearings on whether a kid should be taken from their family. Plenty of lawyers drink themselves into an early grave. In the past year I've known one practicing lawyer who killed himself (in his office, found by his secretary), one who died at fifty of alcohol-related disease, and half a dozen who've been arrested on DUIs. These are people I personally knew. They are, or were, very successful lawyers. You barely have your foot in the door. If for some dumb reason you intend to persevere you have to lock down an effective and healthy stress management system for you. Maybe running or yoga or weightlifting, in combination with addictions counselling and therapy, will work for you. You will have to have something. But it's possible that nothing will work and you cannot do this job. If you're drinking before writing a first-year midterm I think this job and career will literally kill you. That's not a moral failing. Different people handle stress differently. Chalk it up to a learning experience and walk away.
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Sep 30, 2016 17:35
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Phi, you should go here and find your school: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ Figure out your actual odds of even marginal success.
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Sep 30, 2016 18:21
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Vox Nihili posted:Phi, you should go here and find your school: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ Yeah if I dont transfer my life is over
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Sep 30, 2016 18:26
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Phi230 posted:Yeah if I dont transfer my life is over Even if you feel stuck right now due to ~forces beyond your control~ you need to reevaluate after you get your grades. If you aren't in the top half you will absolutely have to bite the bullet. Literally only exception is if someone has promised you a post-graduation legal job. Not mentioned, not out in a good word, but promised a job. When my just under top 50% ranked girlfriend was job-hunting at our """tier-1""" school she was told by a hiring attorney that "law students like you are a dime a dozen." This was at a small firm that her well-connected father introduced her to. The people there owed him a favor, and yes, they were hiring. It did not matter. You paid for the first year so that cost is already sunk. For God's sake don't pay for a second year unless you achieve some sort of incredible success. You'll know if you do.
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Sep 30, 2016 18:41
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Lawjob chat: What do people know about doc review project management? It's something that's always floated around in the periphery and I do think I'd like to get into it, but don't know much about it. Is it something anyone has familiarity with? The ultimate goal would be get a PM job at an ediscovery vendor, then try to go inhouse since I always see postings for lockheed and whatnot.
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Sep 30, 2016 18:43
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Pook Good Mook posted:It's complicated but yes. We're in similar boats, and I think it'll work itself out as long as you're working your rear end off. Just remember that people who face challenges like this become stronger in the long run (even if they are a little less wealthy).
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Sep 30, 2016 18:55
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How dumb is it for me to lateral as a first year? (graduated over a year ago so I've been working for over a year.)
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Sep 30, 2016 18:59
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Also, for the future law students among us: literally the only thing that matters in your choice of school is the quality of your career counseling services. It's a huge weight off your shoulders when your school has biglaw contacts out the wazoo, and can, in the worst case scenario, call a favor and get you a job working at a midsize firm in a secondary market.
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Sep 30, 2016 19:01
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evilweasel posted:https://www.liebschool.com/content/material/publication/Publication_RealEstateAttorneysAsRealEstateBrokers_TheSuffolkLawyer_June2015.pdf I guess it's nice to know that with my NY license, if I ever move to NY (I live in DC), I have one more possible side hustle.
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Sep 30, 2016 19:40
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Bushido Brown posted:How dumb is it for me to lateral as a first year? (graduated over a year ago so I've been working for over a year.) Why do you want to lateral (both the real answer and what you'll say when you get asked in your interview, which you will)
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Sep 30, 2016 19:44
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mastershakeman posted:Lawjob chat: I'm a salaried review manager at a doc review firm. Ask me anything.
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Sep 30, 2016 19:47
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mastershakeman posted:Lawjob chat: I don't know much about the field, but it seems like in our firm most of that work is handled by non-lawyers in our litigation support team, who get everything lined up at a partners direction before things are sent to associates for batch review. But maybe things are different at a bigger firm or a doc review only place.
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Sep 30, 2016 19:49
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Bushido Brown posted:How dumb is it for me to lateral as a first year? (graduated over a year ago so I've been working for over a year.) We usually don't bother interviewing first year laterals because they haven't learned enough to be useful yet. 3-5 is the sweet spot right now, at least for us.
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Sep 30, 2016 19:59
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evilweasel posted:Why do you want to lateral (both the real answer and what you'll say when you get asked in your interview, which you will) Real answer: I find some of the partner and mid level dynamics I am in to be very frustrating and don't know how to remedy them. Interview answer: I would like to practice is a smaller group that has more direct interaction with partners and senior associates. I enjoy my work at my current firm (this is true), but I realize that I would be happier in a different environment.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:34
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Kalman posted:We usually don't bother interviewing first year laterals because they haven't learned enough to be useful yet. 3-5 is the sweet spot right now, at least for us. I'm just at the very beginning of the process. Speaking with headhunters and the like/seeing what's out there. Not necessarily trying to make the leap. More wondering if I'm wasting my time in doing so.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:35
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I did well enough on my midterm to reaffirm my poo poo life choices
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Sep 30, 2016 20:39
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What law school has mid terms and gets your grade back that quickly Was it all multiple choice
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Sep 30, 2016 20:41
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Phi230 posted:I did well enough on my midterm to reaffirm my poo poo life choices Midterms don't actually matter.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:46
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Vox Nihili posted:Midterms don't actually matter. I know, but literally any positive feedback pretty much chills me out for a while
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Sep 30, 2016 20:52
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Phi230 posted:I know, but literally any positive feedback pretty much chills me out for a while you need to jerk off more. or less
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Sep 30, 2016 20:54
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Vox Nihili posted:Midterms don't actually matter. this. Midterms are only 20-30% of your final grade at most and are nothing more than a gauge of where you're at right now. Was the midterm graded on a curve like the final grade will be or was everyone able to get max points? Remember that although you may have done well, this is going to light a fire under some of your classmates and complacency will cause you to fall behind. still though, you should really do something else.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:59
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mastershakeman posted:I can kick people to the curb but there's no way I could handle family law God drat I actually enjoy it but I also managed to score the clean soul position at a domestic violence clinic so I usually have clear cut assholes and victims. On the other hand while sometimes I get lovely thank you cards from people that escaped their poo poo I have more clients than I'd like that end up back there or end up worse off and the constant barrage of things like pregnant women walking into my office looking like they went through a meat grinder is soul crushing. Phi230 if you follow the trend you aren't going to listen but seriously, holy poo poo, go to substance abuse counseling if nothing else if you're already in that state just from 1L year. I'm joining the chorus of having friends from law school that went down this path and it killed them or at the very least did lasting damage to their lives.
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Sep 30, 2016 21:44
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Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Sep 30, 2016 22:22
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Nitrousoxide posted:I'm a salaried review manager at a doc review firm. Ask me anything. Was your agency part of a deal that closed today?
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Sep 30, 2016 22:26
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RVT posted:Was your agency part of a deal that closed today? Nope.
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Sep 30, 2016 22:44
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So this 1L at a TTT takes a midterm, cries in the thread, drinks at 6a, thinks he's unique, must transfer to succeed, ignores us, then gets a midterm grade high enough to warrant his (own) decision to continue. You're gonna toona yourself buddy.
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Oct 1, 2016 00:41
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:So this 1L at a TTT takes a midterm, cries in the thread, drinks at 6a, thinks he's unique, must transfer to succeed, ignores us, then gets a midterm grade high enough to warrant his (own) decision to continue. so much hate in your heart and soul
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Oct 1, 2016 01:07
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I graduated in 2011 and still share a house with two sociopaths because I don't make enough at my lovely legal aid practice to rent a whole apartment in a 4th tier Canadian city. Literally at office drinking alone because I do not want to go home. LAW
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Oct 1, 2016 01:52
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Phi230 posted:so much hate in your heart and soul You're either a troll or a loving moron. Enjoy drinking yourself to death
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Oct 1, 2016 02:05
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People here are too kind hearted mostly. Every time a toona-clone pops up there are still folks trying to give earnest advice when it's clearly falling on the deafest of ears. I visited the USPTO, and it was nicer than I had imagined. Gonna try to sit in on a CAFC oral argument some time in the next few weeks since I probably won't be back any time soon, should be fun 
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Oct 1, 2016 03:39
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We have a nice campus but like 2/3 of the offices have no windows
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Oct 1, 2016 05:30
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I'll be back in NY for ten days at the end of this month and will probably spend a few days wandering around midtown like I always do. Anyone in the city up for lunch? PM me.
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Oct 1, 2016 11:00
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What time zone are you in? It's like 5:00am here, why am I awake on a Saturday.
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Oct 1, 2016 11:15
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Hey guys. Anything new? Toona still banging crazy bipolar chicks and preparing to regret all his adult decisions?
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Oct 1, 2016 12:56
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blarzgh posted:What time zone are you in? It's like 5:00am here, why am I awake on a Saturday.  ActusRhesus posted:Hey guys. probably, but we just got a new fish / toona is already twice divorced and past saving
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Oct 1, 2016 13:02
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ActusRhesus posted:Hey guys. Toonas dead, man.
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Oct 1, 2016 13:02
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Ohsi! Just caught up. Hi Phil. First off, congratulations on entering the noble legal profession, be it through your own calling to walk the path of Sir Thomas Moore or your overbearing Tiger/Jewish/damnitIgotknockedupat17andcouldn'tgotostatebeautypageantbutmykidWILLbeasuccess Mother's last screaming wish. A few points, if I may, pardon the pun, play Devil's Advocate. 1. Alcoholism will not set you back in any way. Look at Churchill if you don't believe me. 2. The fact you are at a T3 will in no way impact your ability to find gainful employment that allows you to repay your crippling debt. Anyone who tells you otherwise is some ivy league elitist prick. 3. Nothing in the practice of law is as scary as your 1L Property exam. Like, the captial habeas case I tried? piece of cake but I still wake up in a cold sweat dreading the rule against perpetuities. Stuff of nightmares, man. Once you graduate you will find the practice of law is completely stress free and rewarding. In other words, gently caress the haters, man. You do you.
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Oct 1, 2016 13:09
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