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I'm incredibly excited about Swedish Dracula now 
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Sep 30, 2016 19:43
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What even does the "Lure of Heroic Fascism" Mean? Are we seriously reverting back to the days when Morningkill was in charge and the Get were literal actual Nazis? Cause Albrecht's term as head of the Garou Nation was pretty much the opposite of Fascist. And one thing I got out of that Q&A is that Martin really has no clue about anything that goes on in the American Roleplaying community. At one Martin goes on a long spiel about how you're playing Monsters in the World of Darkness and Racism and Sexism is monstrous. Then someone asked him "Well then why would women or minorities want to even play your game if they're going to come here and be forced to experience historically accurate racism?" and they practically ripped the mic out of his hands before he could respond.
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Sep 30, 2016 19:50
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At best, it's about the way fantasy and sci-fi often uses fascist imagery and ideology (owing largely to both fantasy and fascism being essentially romantic, reactionary, and usually masculinist escapism) for the good guys and he wants to explore it ala Norman Spinrad's The Iron Dream. I doubt it's that, though.
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Sep 30, 2016 19:58
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Loomer posted:There needs to be another, even worse, panel for that webcomic with the dog on fire. It no longer reflects this situation. 
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Sep 30, 2016 19:58
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 Bork bork bork, put de racism in der pot, bork bork bork
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Sep 30, 2016 19:59
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Loomer posted:At best, it's about the way fantasy and sci-fi often uses fascist imagery and ideology (owing largely to both fantasy and fascism being essentially romantic, reactionary, and usually masculinist escapism) for the good guys and he wants to explore it ala Norman Spinrad's The Iron Dream. I doubt it's that, though. From what we've seen of the guy I'm guessing he's more like the guy who wrote to Spinrad and was like 'Hey, that was an awesome story, but why ruin it with all this talk about Hitler?'
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Sep 30, 2016 20:00
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quote:Martin: There are many early books that deserve to be updated to contemporary times and get hooked into the development of the metaplot, a lot of great but underused ideas that popped up in fiction anthologies have also caught my eye. To name some personal impulses: ”Shoah: Charnel Houses of Europe” and ”Gypsies” (Should be called something like “Opre Roma!”) could use new editions in our age, as the horrors of the fear of the Other is again on the rise in Europe. That's chill.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:01
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I keep breaking into uncontrollable giggles at this guy looking at the political situation in Europe and thinking "It's a perfect time to reprint Gypsies." At long last, have they no sense of decency?
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Sep 30, 2016 20:11
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This man is incredibly loving stupid.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:11
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According to my friend (Who is Roma) "Opre Roma!" means "Roma Arise!" and was a slogan behind a movement attempting to get the Romani to politically organize in Europe. So I'm betting his ideal book involves using Gypsy blood magic and your amazing magic thief skills to gently caress up the Gadje governments and make your own nation of Gypsos.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:13
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I think what might be a fun supplement is looking at post 'apocalypse' vampire and exploring all the political systems in Europe spinning out of control of the vampires. Or we could write a supplement about refugee influx in Europe and how it has affected- Where is everybody going? Come back guys! EDIT: Or we could write one where vampires try to undermine the media by censoring content on reddit.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:15
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The only possible way Gypsies reissuing could address the rising fear of the other (other than as 'you are right to fear them, they are literally magic and can control your kind' anyway) is to do... Actually I don't think you CAN do it at all in this context, even with a total tear down, as you're still going to be putting out a book saying the quintessential Other is Other for a reason other than human prejudice. Unless you make it a totally mundane treatise on the Roma and their hardships, I guess.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:19
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In which case why would it even be a World of Darkness book. The absolutely will have magic powers and it will absolutely justify hatred of them. Just like Beast makes MRAs and Gamergate look like the good guys because it put them in as the antagonists to literal mind rapists and murderers that happen to be transgender analogues.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:22
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Maybe it will be a cultural touchstone, drawing on actual Roma myth and talk about monsters unique to that culture? That could work. Like you could write a supplement about Norse monsters and myth in the context of the World of Darkness, or various African myths, etc, without diving into full racist territory. It's just... kind of niche unless they think there's actually something worth salvaging in the original premise behind Gypsies and I can't imagine what that would be. Were there any cool fonts used in that book? I don't remember I burned mine years ago.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:29
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Bedlamdan posted:
Swedish Blood Chef. We need to run with something like that, ideally something funnier.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:32
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Considering the global political situation at the moment, having organized international play with a game that explores the "lure of heroic fascism" seems sort of irresponsible. It seems like a way to accidentally create a networking opportunity for fascists embracing all the worse aspects of the game. Of course this assumes that the international trans-media aspect actually happens, which is a big assumption. Basically, Loomer should replace Swedish dracula.
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Sep 30, 2016 21:07
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quote:Considering the joint statement from US based LARP fan groups, would you like to address how you will be working with those groups on the issue of player safety? I'm deeply curious how the White Wolf contracts with fan clubs is going to check their development of their material. There is space for White Wolf to introduce themes of personal interest to them. But imagine having to explain why The Spiders That Attack Women At Full Rape Stiffness or The Heroic Fascist Lure are sitting there demanding to be used as part of the canon. Also, this is quite the walk-back after the 27:00 minute of the keynote where the act of banning content as a club was considered to be Wrong within minutes of telling all the fan clubs that they will be personally licensed by White Wolf.
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Sep 30, 2016 21:14
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Loomer posted:Unless you make it a totally mundane treatise on the Roma and their hardships, I guess. If I wanted to be REALLY charitable to Swedish Dracula, I'd guess that was what he was thinking in some form, and maybe had forgotten how and why the actual WoD gypsies was so awful. A book that treated on the Romani and integrated them into the setting with the same care and respect that Charnal Houses of Europe did for the Shoah could be awesome. Remaking WoD gypsies as is would I think be even more terrible than before. The American WW team I think can be more faulted for a) essentially wanting to create the classic 'gypsy mystic' archetype from Stoker that era, and b) not thinking through the implications of that, in part because of little to no direct experience with Romani culture. Paradox WW has no excuse for not being aware of the minefield.
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Sep 30, 2016 21:22
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Remember when the Paradox deal was first announced and everyone was cautiously optimistic, maybe even excited? The moral of this is that you should never expect anything good to happen.
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Sep 30, 2016 21:50
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Kai Tave posted:Remember when the Paradox deal was first announced and everyone was cautiously optimistic, maybe even excited? But something good did happen: Onyx Path was given leave to dissociate from this entirely and do their own thing.
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Sep 30, 2016 21:56
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Desiden posted:If I wanted to be REALLY charitable to Swedish Dracula, I'd guess that was what he was thinking in some form, and maybe had forgotten how and why the actual WoD gypsies was so awful. A book that treated on the Romani and integrated them into the setting with the same care and respect that Charnal Houses of Europe did for the Shoah could be awesome. Remaking WoD gypsies as is would I think be even more terrible than before. The American WW team I think can be more faulted for a) essentially wanting to create the classic 'gypsy mystic' archetype from Stoker that era, and b) not thinking through the implications of that, in part because of little to no direct experience with Romani culture. Paradox WW has no excuse for not being aware of the minefield. Well I mean, he comes from a place that still thinks this is okay 
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Sep 30, 2016 22:00
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I fear what eventually comes from bloodlines 2
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Sep 30, 2016 22:01
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Kurieg posted:Well I mean, he comes from a place that still thinks this is okay What the everloving gently caress, Sweden.
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Sep 30, 2016 22:02
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Loomer posted:There needs to be another, even worse, panel for that webcomic with the dog on fire. It no longer reflects this situation. https://thenib.com/this-is-not-fine
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Sep 30, 2016 22:05
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Scion update: 10 dollars shy of 189k. New stretch goals: 205k: Yazata pantheon. (That'd be Zoroastrian 'angels'.) 210k: Another story added to the fiction anthology, for a total of 6. 225k: An Earplay interactive audio drama for Scion.
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Sep 30, 2016 22:07
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Attorney at Funk posted:That's chill. Ugh. You just know it'll be another unbalanced pile in which you've got no choice but to put all five background dots in Blood Purity again.
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Sep 30, 2016 22:15
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Night10194 posted:What the everloving gently caress, Sweden. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet It's not just Sweden, a lot of northern Europe is casually racist and there's been a lot of push back against changing things because Tradition. Which is why when people asked Swedracula about how he'd deal with the issues raised by Feminists and PoCs he only addressed the fact that Sweden is a very feminist country and that it won't be a problem. Kurieg fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 30, 2016 22:16
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Kurieg posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet That's Holland, though?
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Sep 30, 2016 22:31
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It's a thing all over Northern Europe.
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Sep 30, 2016 22:34
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Kurieg posted:It's a thing all over Northern Europe. If you mean Zwarte Piet, no. If you mean racism? yeah
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Sep 30, 2016 22:36
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The thing you linked only ever mentions Holland though? (Okay and also Belgian. Dutch speaking areas and call it even.) I mean, I'm certainly not arguing that Swedes aren't terrible racists, just this is the dumbest way to show that.
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Sep 30, 2016 22:37
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Guess I was misinformed then. Fantastic.
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Sep 30, 2016 22:39
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Mors Rattus posted:Scion update: 10 dollars shy of 189k.  Zoroastrain Yazata's were actually lesser gods or deities, it's only through christianzation they became angels.Kurieg posted:In which case why would it even be a World of Darkness book. The absolutely will have magic powers and it will absolutely justify hatred of them. Just like Beast makes MRAs and Gamergate look like the good guys because it put them in as the antagonists to literal mind rapists and murderers that happen to be transgender analogues. That's making it way, way to easy on WoD there fella. According to Beast Transexualism/Feminism/Otherness is inherently intertwined with eating children. NutritiousSnack fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Oct 1, 2016 |
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Oct 1, 2016 01:37
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NutritiousSnack posted:
Well, sort of. It's really a complex position that is not really angels and not really deities and is quite interesting but a lot more detail than I was going into.
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Oct 1, 2016 01:45
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Desiden posted:If I wanted to be REALLY charitable to Swedish Dracula, I'd guess that was what he was thinking in some form, and maybe had forgotten how and why the actual WoD gypsies was so awful. A book that treated on the Romani and integrated them into the setting with the same care and respect that Charnal Houses of Europe did for the Shoah could be awesome. Remaking WoD gypsies as is would I think be even more terrible than before. The American WW team I think can be more faulted for a) essentially wanting to create the classic 'gypsy mystic' archetype from Stoker that era, and b) not thinking through the implications of that, in part because of little to no direct experience with Romani culture. Paradox WW has no excuse for not being aware of the minefield. Their excuse is, while Northern Europe and Europe is very feminist (though a different brand American feminism) with it being entirely mainstream, racism and nationalism is also mainstream to the point Trump like figures have existed for a long time, get placed in powerful positions, and even get elected as prime minister (Italy for starters). OWoD really is coming back. Mors Rattus posted:Well, sort of. It's really a complex position that is not really angels and not really deities and is quite interesting but a lot more detail than I was going into. Fair enough, I mostly agree. I just see people make that actual mistake and can't help but mildly correct it with a similar but slightly more accurate term
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Oct 1, 2016 02:05
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There's a reason I used scare quotes, yeah.
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Oct 1, 2016 02:08
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Oh, I haven't checked the WoD thread for a while. I wonder what kind of entertaining things White Wolf is cooking up now that Paradox, makers of cool map games that I like, owns them? Maybe there's some kind of cool Crusader Kings II-esque game about Vampire city politics or... uh...  Loomer posted:'Screaming in lust from the concentrated spunk in my groins- blood, the Akalia started to wriggle out of its dirty jeans, still gagging on my bleeding junk. It let go only to suck in air, preparing to turn its centuries- dormant sexual organs into full rear end- rape stiffness.' Yessod posted:Of course, on the downside, Swedish Dracula referenced "the lure of heroic fascism in Werewolf," and the two books he explicitly called out as needing to be updated and republished were ”Shoah: Charnel Houses of Europe” and ”Gypsies” (though in fairness he added that it "Should be called something like 'Opre Roma!' "), which makes me really nervous. FATAL-level rape stories and "heroic fascism". Terrific. Oh well, at least there's still OPP...?
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Oct 1, 2016 02:47
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Heroic Fascism sounds like an FYAD irony name
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Oct 1, 2016 03:21
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Empress Theonora posted:Oh well, at least there's still OPP...?
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Oct 1, 2016 03:28
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Loomer posted:Picture The Stand, only the Trashcan Man is a surviving and wyrm-eaten Ratkin (and so is the Ratman), Flagg is the avatar of a Maeljin Incarna with an army of Dancers, the survivors are Garou, kinfolk, and imbued, and there's a big dose of I Am Legend in the cities where vampires (mostly Nosferatu, Gangrel, and Ventrue survivors) wage war over the terrified remnant populations of disease survivors (largely Ghouls, Garou and Ratkin kinfolk, and a handful of lucky mortals) with the Ratkin and shambling packs of decaying Ratkin abominations scream their insane genocidal fury from the rooftops, hurling molotovs and improvised explosives at anything that strikes their ire while struggling to find the courage to just loving die. I played in a longish ratkin campaign once and, while it was on the whole more heroic than this, it certainly did end in a cluster-gently caress of explosions, fire, and cackling insanity. God, that was a good campaign.
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Oct 1, 2016 03:31
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