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Banana Man posted:Was quill specializing in science to go that fast? The times seem similar to civ 5 where with Babylon you could be really far ahead pretty quick in prince. I didn't really think Quill18 focused science that much either - it takes him a long time to even put a Campus down, and he's got flight -a modern era tech- by about 1100AD. At that point he's only got 2 or 3 campus' running and still hasn't figured out how to work them with citizens. You go directly from Sanitation/Steam power to Flight and then everything is shiny and modern. It's weird. It seems like there should be another tier of techs in the Industrial era, Modern techs should have a larger jump in cost, and maybe there should be more dependencies in the tree. His neighbours are sitting with warriors, archers, and catapults and he has skyscrapers while never seeming to specialise highly in science. E: Yeah, I checked. He gets Flight in the lost episode, and then after that in Ep10 he gets a Great scientist he wants to use in a Campus so he checks over all of this. He only has build 2 - one in a tile with 2 mountains and another in Rome with no bonuses from terrain. He also has a third one he conquered from Japan. None of them are being worked, so there's not really much of a science focus going on. Hallucinogenic Toreador posted:I'm probably No, I just didn't know that. So they were! Darkrenown fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Oct 3, 2016 |
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Oct 3, 2016 19:44
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ing pretty hard, but Limes can also mean Roman border defences.
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Eiba posted:Were you watching Quill18? He greatly emphasized science and kind of rushed to flight when he saw it was possible which put him in the modern era ridiculously early. He finished the whole tech tree in the 1800s. Given that science is essentially tied to how mountainous the map is, it's gonna be hard to balance.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:44
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No, he was playing Rome and just kept either settling or rolling over cities, then occasionally slapping down campus districts. Rome didn't have anything that specifically boosted science, but has enough stuff encouraging you to go wide with some tall boosters as well.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:45
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Have we seen anything of how multiplayer is? I'm afraid it's going to be a shitshow like it is in 5.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:50
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Gort posted:Have we seen anything of how multiplayer is? I'm afraid it's going to be a shitshow like it is in 5.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:54
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Gort posted:Have we seen anything of how multiplayer is? I'm afraid it's going to be a shitshow like it is in 5. Was. It sucked horribly at launch, but I play(ed) Civ V multi pretty regularly. At least a game or two every couple months with a friend of mine against the AI. It was fun as hell and totally headache free.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:58
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El Disco posted:If you're going to run a settler around unescorted, at least use radar. I was dumb and had swept a trireme past the peninsula about five turns before. Got unlucky. Oh well. Irritating but hardly a game-breaker.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:59
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OwlFancier posted:Given that science is essentially tied to how mountainous the map is, it's gonna be hard to balance. Only seems to really matter for early science. Once you get Libraries and Universities in there, you can throw in the policy slot for +100% science from campus buildings and get like +12 science per campus, which out paces pretty much any adjacency bonuses. I do think that the Tech rate seems a bit high with all the Eurekas. The fact that the Civic tree acts as a second tech line helps, in that if you focus mostly on science, you fall behind in culture, and vice versa. But I think Eureka/Inspiration bonuses should be toned down to something like 33% instead of 50%. Or tech costs increased a bit, especially for late-game techs. Also gonna take some getting used to the relatively limited military upgrade lines. Currently there are only 5 units in the melee line, as opposed to I think 8 in Civ V? I guess corps/armies are supposed to act as bridges between the gaps. I'm still super hyped about how rich the whole district placement system seems to be, and the game looks fairly involving right into the late game. I do hope higher difficulty levels make the AI a real threat, I look forward to fighting in the more urbanized map, with district pillaging, walled encampments, and all that.
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Oct 3, 2016 20:02
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Cythereal posted:I was dumb and had swept a trireme past the peninsula about five turns before. Got unlucky. Oh well. Irritating but hardly a game-breaker. It's also the sort of thing autosave is good for. 
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Oct 3, 2016 20:04
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Good lord, you can't see what luxury goods you have already one the trade screen or when another civ offers you a trade? Like, you can see what good you produce, but you might have access to other goods from other trades which make a big different in what deals you want to accept.
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Oct 3, 2016 20:40
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I hope the UI mods come thick and fast because it's beginning to sound like this game will need it.
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Oct 3, 2016 21:43
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I hope they add "abandon city" as a war victory option. I hate having to prolong or even go to war because one city is problematic. Just force them to leave it and be done.
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Oct 3, 2016 23:05
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El Disco posted:It's also the sort of thing autosave is good for. HISTORY HAS SPOKEN. You cannot undo what is done.
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Oct 3, 2016 23:08
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Darkrenown posted:I didn't really think Quill18 focused science that much either - it takes him a long time to even put a Campus down, and he's got flight -a modern era tech- by about 1100AD. At that point he's only got 2 or 3 campus' running and still hasn't figured out how to work them with citizens. You go directly from Sanitation/Steam power to Flight and then everything is shiny and modern. It's weird. It seems like there should be another tier of techs in the Industrial era, Modern techs should have a larger jump in cost, and maybe there should be more dependencies in the tree. His neighbours are sitting with warriors, archers, and catapults and he has skyscrapers while never seeming to specialise highly in science. But you're right, he had a slow start and didn't exactly build a campus in every city. It looks kind of lopsided, but you could see all his decision making processes were to prioritize science bonuses, at the cost of culture industry, and gold which were all mediocre. His faith still seemed pretty high, though all he used it for was to buy more great scientists. The sudden shift from Renaissance to Modern was really jarring and sudden, I'd agree. OwlFancier posted:Given that science is essentially tied to how mountainous the map is, it's gonna be hard to balance. In terms of city site balance, it looks like mountains will make for high quality faith or science districts, while flat lands allow you to really stack up farm adjacency bonuses. Early on farms get an extra food for each two adjacent farms, making triangles of farms more powerful than three scattered ones. Eventually they get +1 food for each adjacent farm so a carpet of them is a massive boost you wouldn't get in a city with rough terrain. And since population is what limits the number of districts a city can build, that's a pretty powerful boost. I still imagine one way or another is going to be obviously better, but I appreciate the apparent range of possibilities right now.
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Oct 3, 2016 23:31
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Banana Man posted:Was quill specializing in science to go that fast? The times seem similar to civ 5 where with Babylon you could be really far ahead pretty quick in prince. The truth is that the turn dates are calibrated toward a very laid back playstyle and that anyone who is remotely good at Civ games is going to reach eras far earlier than the "historical" dates just by virtue of knowing what they're doing.
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Oct 3, 2016 23:37
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Rexides posted:Civ 2 wonder movies were the best thing, they felt like a reward by themselves. However, they only worked that well because the rest of the game no distinct artistic direction, and the wonder movie producers were free to make one video where you had sketches presented over a jazz soundtrack, one that is an epic montage of sailors that could be the intro to a 16 century documentary, and also a video of a dude in a funny costume reciting Shakespeare and nothing felt out of place because there was no specific theme they had to follow. The Civ 2 wonder movies owned so hard. My favorite was King Richard's Crusade. Which was the most make or break wonder in the game Imo. E: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb4LT95Z3qA JetsGuy fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Oct 4, 2016 |
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Oct 4, 2016 00:34
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Super Jay Mann posted:The truth is that the turn dates are calibrated toward a very laid back playstyle and that anyone who is remotely good at Civ games is going to reach eras far earlier than the "historical" dates just by virtue of knowing what they're doing. Seriously in 5 I can hit industrial era by the 12th century. It's just not feasible to calibrate.
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Oct 4, 2016 00:36
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Jastiger posted:I hope they add "abandon city" as a war victory option. I hate having to prolong or even go to war because one city is problematic. Just force them to leave it and be done. This has been a problem with Civ forever. In early Civ , you couldn't destroy a poo poo city you captured. Later, they let you raze the city and just paid an insane OMG WARMONGER penalty for it. Then it just got worse with the 'foreign national" tracking. Just let me burn a goddamned city to the ground, I only captured it because the stupid AI doesn't space out their cities so no city interferes with the other like I autisticly do.
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Oct 4, 2016 00:37
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JetsGuy posted:The Civ 2 wonder movies owned so hard. The one I remember most is the Oracle, because for some reason whenever I built it, at least the first few times I tried playing the game/when I played it on our first home computer, the game crashed with a message saying the computer performed an illegal operation or something and I, being something like a single-digit in age then, believed it was because there was something literally illegal regarding the Oracle and/or playing video of it. On a mostly-unrelated tangent, I was not particularly good at Civ II then (I played without any tutorials or anything, so I had little idea of what I was doing and figured it out as I went). I remember really liking phalanxes because they looked neat (and were blue). Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Oct 4, 2016 |
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Oct 4, 2016 00:38
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JetsGuy posted:The Civ 2 wonder movies owned so hard. Why does King Richard's Crusade give bonus production?
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Oct 4, 2016 02:09
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Jay Rust posted:Why does King Richard's Crusade give bonus production? So you can build an army and kick rear end.
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Oct 4, 2016 02:18
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I still dont see how people get to industrial so quickly. Its insane lol.
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Oct 4, 2016 02:19
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If everybody wants a game where technological progression is tightly constrained to historical dates I would suggest playing a Paradox game instead.
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Oct 4, 2016 02:21
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JetsGuy posted:My favorite was King Richard's Crusade. Which was the most make or break wonder in the game Imo. Leonardo's Workshop would like a word.
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Oct 4, 2016 02:41
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Jastiger posted:I still dont see how people get to industrial so quickly. Its insane lol. In Civ5 it's just a matter of realizing that building 4 cities max and prioritizing food above everything (except just enough happiness) is how you get loads of tech quickly. It helps to realize that the food trade routes conjure food ex nihilo. But if you know that, you can easily move your industrial revolution up a few centuries. I assume there'll be similar "exploits" (really, just understanding the underlying systems) in Civ6, and that they'll be largely required if you want to win on Deity.
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Oct 4, 2016 02:49
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I've been playing vox populi so im guessing that Avenue is closed off i always find that if i dont use my trade routes externally i run out of gold and it torpedoes my civ, so i never get my big food bonus.
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Oct 4, 2016 03:20
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Peas and Rice posted:Leonardo's Workshop would like a word. Touche. YOUR PIKEMAN HAVE ALL BEEN UPGRADED TO RIFLEMEN
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Oct 4, 2016 03:37
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Peas and Rice posted:Leonardo's Workshop would like a word. Leonardo was flashier, but IMO weaker than King Richard. Getting free upgrades was nice, but you lost the veteran bonus on those units - which, in some cases, resulted in a net power loss from the upgrade. IIRC, Leonardo also had an awkward expiration tech (Industrialization?) that killed it right before you really needed to upgrade units in the modern era. Richard also was often easier to get since the AI loved Leonardo so much, and the extra shields often meant that by getting Richard you'd bootstrap straight into Leonardo (or some other equally great Wonder).
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Oct 4, 2016 03:43
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:In Civ5 it's just a matter of realizing that building 4 cities max and prioritizing food above everything (except just enough happiness) is how you get loads of tech quickly. It helps to realize that the food trade routes conjure food ex nihilo. But if you know that, you can easily move your industrial revolution up a few centuries. Wow. I just stuck with my method of grow as fast as possible that always served me well and it worked alright in 5. You had to slow it down a bunch but expand and grab as much land as possible is always the way I've won. Are roads still going to require maintenance? Doesnt seem like it
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Oct 4, 2016 03:43
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orangelex44 posted:Leonardo was flashier, but IMO weaker than King Richard. Getting free upgrades was nice, but you lost the veteran bonus on those units - which, in some cases, resulted in a net power loss from the upgrade. IIRC, Leonardo also had an awkward expiration tech (Industrialization?) that killed it right before you really needed to upgrade units in the modern era. Richard also was often easier to get since the AI loved Leonardo so much, and the extra shields often meant that by getting Richard you'd bootstrap straight into Leonardo (or some other equally great Wonder). My argument is that if you were smart about it, you always put KRC in your best production city. For the entirety of the effect of the wonder, I'd just have that city cranking wonders. It was basically the wonder that got you a shitton of wonders.
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Oct 4, 2016 03:46
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I'm late to the discussion, but what civilizations are people liking at the moment? So far I'm really liking the look of Arabia; they've got science, faith and a guaranteed religion, and even a bit of bonus culture. That's pretty close to everything I'd want; science and culture are the two things I'd like to focus on, and I definitely like getting a religion even in games where it's not central to my strategy. It seems pretty great.
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Oct 4, 2016 03:47
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JetsGuy posted:My argument is that if you were smart about it, you always put KRC in your best production city. For the entirety of the effect of the wonder, I'd just have that city cranking wonders. It was basically the wonder that got you a shitton of wonders. How wonderful.
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Oct 4, 2016 03:55
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KRC is completely overrated because production doesn't matter much in Civ 2. You'll be using stacks of caravans to instabuild critical wonders and you'll be purchasing most of the units and buildings you need.
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Oct 4, 2016 04:00
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JetsGuy posted:Wow. I just stuck with my method of grow as fast as possible that always served me well and it worked alright in 5. You had to slow it down a bunch but expand and grab as much land as possible is always the way I've won. quote:Are roads still going to require maintenance? Doesnt seem like it The only reason they required maintenance in 5 was to keep you from mindlessly spamming roads everywhere. Now that they're auto-built for you in 6, that won't be an issue.
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Oct 4, 2016 04:17
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The only reason they required maintenance in 5 was to keep you from mindlessly spamming roads everywhere. Now that they're auto-built for you in 6, that won't be an issue. The only reason I (and most people) "mindlessly spammed roads" on earlier Civs that the trade bonus was such that you were an idiot if you didn't have a road (+1) and RR (+2) on every tile.
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Oct 4, 2016 04:23
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JetsGuy posted:The only reason I (and most people) "mindlessly spammed roads" on earlier Civs that the trade bonus was such that you were an idiot if you didn't have a road (+1) and RR (+2) on every tile. Granted for Civ3 and earlier, but Civ4 didn't give a trade bonus if I recall correctly (beyond the bonuses for cities being connected at all). And yet your empire always ended up completely covered in roads/railroads anyway. I guess the goal as of Civ5 is to make it so the defending civ doesn't have a completely massive maneuverability bonus against invaders; they can only quickly go between cities or to places that have roads.
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Oct 4, 2016 04:27
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Yea having every single tile under your control covered with a railroad was broken as gently caress. You could instantly muster your entire army to any location of your choosing making defense pretty much trivial. There would be ways around it of course but the AI was never really very good and the whole nuke and paradrop tactic, nor using bombers to cut off railroad access to an objective. I miss being able to build quick and free roads to places I want to expand to or conquer but in a way I think it's nice that it'll no longer be micromanaged. Maybe a decent compromise could have been to have roads that directly lead to a strategic resource, friendly city, or other Civ's borders\roads be free, so legitimate and good uses for roads aren't penalized but spamming them everywhere is.
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Oct 4, 2016 04:56
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Granted for Civ3 and earlier, but Civ4 didn't give a trade bonus if I recall correctly (beyond the bonuses for cities being connected at all). And yet your empire always ended up completely covered in roads/railroads anyway. I guess the goal as of Civ5 is to make it so the defending civ doesn't have a completely massive maneuverability bonus against invaders; they can only quickly go between cities or to places that have roads. IIRC I did it in 4 because I think you still needed strategic resources connected by roads, and I just did it immediately so when they "appeared" I'd have the roads already there. I do agree with their tact now of trying to get us away from doing that completely and making them autobuild is a huge plus
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Oct 4, 2016 04:56
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I did have a non-zero amount of fun making aesthetically-pleasing road paths between my cities in 5
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Oct 4, 2016 05:02
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Roland Jones posted:I'm late to the discussion, but what civilizations are people liking at the moment? So far I'm really liking the look of Arabia; they've got science, faith and a guaranteed religion, and even a bit of bonus culture. That's pretty close to everything I'd want; science and culture are the two things I'd like to focus on, and I definitely like getting a religion even in games where it's not central to my strategy. It seems pretty great. I'm going to play Scythia a lot so I can drown every other civilization in a tidal wave of horsemen and tanks.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:04
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