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Oct 4, 2016 04:41
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I'd argue it is mainly about corruption of a person by their actions or the people around them and where the line is that a person becomes ethnically compromised. That was my take-away anyway from the first season and most of the second season. It certainly outlined the conflict between DD and the Punisher and also frames Karen Page's ongoing inner struggle.
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Oct 4, 2016 04:44
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bloodychill posted:I'd argue it is mainly about corruption of a person by their actions or the people around them and where the line is that a person becomes ethnically compromised. So like, when one's actions means they can't be a white person anymore? Deep.
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Oct 4, 2016 04:48
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nerdman42 posted:Here's my question: Jessica Jones was a film noir story about abuse. Luke Cage (so far) seems like a modern blaxploitation about African-American culture and the systematic failing to help provide that culture. An action driven story about how abuse perpetuated by adults on their children (purposefully or not) extends the cycle of violence and pain into the future, and that it negatively impacts the entire community and not only the victim.
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Oct 4, 2016 04:55
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bloodychill posted:I'd argue it is mainly about corruption of a person by their actions or the people around them and where the line is that a person becomes ethnically compromised. Somebody is caught up on The Good Place.
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Oct 4, 2016 04:55
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nerdman42 posted:Here's my question: Jessica Jones was a film noir story about abuse. Luke Cage (so far) seems like a modern blaxploitation about African-American culture and the systematic failing to help provide that culture. There's probably something to be said about "Daredevil" and the weight and costs of violence. I'd need to sit down and watch at least the first season again to be more specific. The series's Matt is someone who's trying very hard to uphold a system even though he has to go outside it to do so, whose vigilante activities are none-too-quietly about self-loathing and pure rage more than anything else. Its thematic approach isn't quite as neatly boiled down as either of the following shows, of course, but it's at least as noir as "Jessica Jones" was. I don't think the second season of "Daredevil" is even that thematically consistent, but Frank is deliberately put into the position of Matt's dark reflection, which I think the show loses track of due to Frank being largely part of Karen's plot. If Matt is somebody fighting tooth and nail to paper over the cracks in the system, Frank is the guy who just assumes the system is broken beyond repair, then acts accordingly.
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Oct 4, 2016 04:57
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howe_sam posted:Somebody is caught up on The Good Place. 
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Oct 4, 2016 04:59
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Finished the season, I think it's the best of all the Marvel shows so far. The themes were powerful and every character stepped up the execution of the plot. Season 2 needs to get confirmed sometime soon!
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Oct 4, 2016 05:00
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I just finished the episode that introduces Diamondback and I hope things improve because that episode felt like some serious plot-motivated stupidity type poo poo, which there seems to be at least a couple episodes of in every Netflix Marvel series so far.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:08
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Guy Goodbody posted:What does that mean? Okay, so it takes (say) 20 bullets to hurt Cage, instead of 1 prototype. OTOH, we have (say) 10 cops shooting those (hypothetical) 20 bullets, so that counteracts Cage's powers a bit more. According to Stalin (although debated), "Quantity has a certain quality all its own".
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Oct 4, 2016 05:12
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nerdman42 posted:Here's my question: Jessica Jones was a film noir story about abuse. Luke Cage (so far) seems like a modern blaxploitation about African-American culture and the systematic failing to help provide that culture. Vigilantes; Heroes or Menaces?
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Oct 4, 2016 05:14
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Gaunab posted:I liked it but at the same time i didn't like it because I knew the people who complained about the Hand would complain about it. Also the choreography could have used a little more work. Agreed. And I am getting SO sick of modern fight cinematography. "Punch" quick cut "Punch" quick cut "Kick" quick cut "Swing and miss" quick cut "Block" quick cut
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Oct 4, 2016 05:15
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Also, I have seen people claim Colter "wasn't big enough" and should have been played by Terry Crews. Although I respect Mr. Crews' comedic chops, I don't think he could have brought the gravitas and pathos Colter did. Plus, I just want to sit down and have beers with Colter's Cage. He just spins the role as so drat likeable...
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Oct 4, 2016 05:22
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Luke almost had his Cuban coffee drat it ! I'd say I can't wait until season 2, but that's probably sometime in 2020 if we're being realistic
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Oct 4, 2016 05:31
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Just finished this. I liked the themes, the music, and felt that the dude who played Cottonmouth was awesome as a villain. Luke Cage was okay but seemed really low key. Shades was neat. Claire and Misty were great. I also thought the dialog was pretty stilted or awkward much of the time - might've been the writing for that, maybe? It felt very clinical and inorganic sometimes. Nothing stood out to me about this show being in 'harlem'. The city itself just seemed to have the physical presence of Anytown, USA. Again, it was the music that made it work. I suppose my final verdict of this show was that if you stopped to think about it for a while, it was really nice and interesting from a meta-standpoint, but the show as entertainment is kind of a non-entity - just more of the same par for the course. The dude who played Punisher radiated ENERGY, Colter not so much. I really like Colter so I hope his next show will be great. This was the most interesting in terms of real-world parallels of the Netflix MSerialU, but the least exciting one overall. He certainly looked the part of Luke Cage. Black Dynamite remains king.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:32
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Carlosologist posted:I'd say I can't wait until season 2, but that's probably sometime in 2020 if we're being realistic In 2017 we'll get Iron Fist followed by The Defenders and they've got Daredevil 3, Jessica Jones 2 and Punisher 1 slated to follow so yeah, late 2019 at the earliest unless they rearrange things again.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:37
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nerdman42 posted:What exactly was Daredevil's overarching theme and genre? Magical ninjas.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:54
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Claire is some kind of superhero groupie, right? Like thats what I'm getting from her character development. She's not a moral core or a voice of normalcy, but someone who's desperate to be CLOSE to people with powers that often romantically complicates her.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:59
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Balon posted:Claire is some kind of superhero groupie, right? Like thats what I'm getting from her character development. She's not a moral core or a voice of normalcy, but someone who's desperate to be CLOSE to people with powers that often romantically complicates her. I think Claire is also just really loving psyched at the ideas of Superheroes and what they are biologically. It's not her fault that these superheroes are also fuckin' sexy as hell beefmountains. CLaire wants to help people, and much like the superheroes she finds herself near, her system (the hospital) was corrupt and now she fights against that system by trying to help other people who are disenfranchised but also doing something in response to that systemic failure. Claire seems pretty down to earth. I wouldn't describe her as a groupie at all.
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Oct 4, 2016 06:06
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raditts posted:So like, when one's actions means they can't be a white person anymore? Deep. howe_sam posted:Somebody is caught up on The Good Place.  Whoops. Guess there's no editing that one out, I blame phone-posting.
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Oct 4, 2016 07:35
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nerdman42 posted:What exactly was Daredevil's overarching theme and genre? Daredevil changed it's genre depending on who he was fighting. Especially in season 2 when he fought several different types of enemies. I made a few posts about it at the time, but I'm Phone posting so I can't really search for them at the moment. Most of the fight scenes lean Jason Bourne/The Raid while court room scenes are Matlock's Law & Order.
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Oct 4, 2016 07:39
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nerdman42 posted:Here's my question: Jessica Jones was a film noir story about abuse. Luke Cage (so far) seems like a modern blaxploitation about African-American culture and the systematic failing to help provide that culture. Emphasis on seems. Luke Cage is ultimately rather hollow, and peddles cliches without any insight into them. It actively avoids being too relevant with its villains. It's similar to how Jessica Jones was praised as feminist, but no one managed to say what's so feminist about it. It's actually a shockingly exploitative and weirdly anti-feminist show. One of the unspoken draws is the escalating atrocities committed by the villain (This man puts gardening shears to his neck! He forces these people to hang themselves! Now he has a gay man mutilate himself!), and barely anyone made a note of this, too busy as they were talking about strong female characters. Similarly, you have people constantly praising the show's 'strong themes' because having police dash cams or mentions of BLM apparently equal a coherent social statement. Daredevil was about people being caught up in systems larger than themselves and the corruption of capitalism. It's problems was of course that it dropped all of that (they never figured out what role a fully superheroic Daredevil could play in such a conflict), but S1 still managed to be the most authentic and relevant of the shows. Luke Cage, in contrast, expressly has only a villain stand for anti-gentrification when in DD it was the heroes. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Oct 4, 2016 |
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Oct 4, 2016 08:17
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I could talk about what makes Jessica Jones a feminist show if you really, really want to hear about it.
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Oct 4, 2016 08:39
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bloodychill posted:I could talk about what makes Jessica Jones a feminist show if you really, really want to hear about it. I'd be interested.
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Oct 4, 2016 08:46
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I thought Luke Cage was pretty alright. Neat stuff: First and foremost, the soundtrack. Power man throwback costume Method Man scene Shades and everything he did Bullet hole hoodie fashion statement Cottonmouth and the actor who played him. Turk was my favorite though. His one liners, callbacks, and his general attitude was just great. Dumbness: WHO loving CLAPS AT FUNERALS? TWICE?! AT THE SAME FUNERAL?! "Man, pops is dead for no good reason, but god drat if that speech by the gangster wasn't eloquent." Mariah: Mariah's whole speech about how COPS BEAT ANOTHER BLACK CHILD, (literally same breath and sentence) THEY NEED BETTER WEAPONS" I understand what she was trying to do, but I've watched that scene 3 times in a row, and not once does that seem like a remotely rational, or cohesive way to get the point of "Luke Cage = Bad for the community" across. In no world would people who are rallying against cops beating kids, would they be supportive of giving them more/better weapons. Her point was to use the beating as a way to rally support for weaponizing the police force to handle a mutant?  no, gently caress off.Mariah as a whole just seemed like a sniveling politician who was biting off WAAAAAYYYYY more than she could chew, while she was being puppeted around by people who know what they are doing. Never once did her character come off as being confident, in control, powerful, intelligent, or even successful. She made stupid move after stupid move, and she couldn't even accomplish holding on to a position as a member of the Harlem city council, let alone become a crime boss. Everything was handed to her, and she just had this "uh, I guess" look on her face every time. It felt like the character was supposed to be the exact opposite of how she was portrayed. It seemed like they wanted to re-create a lethal character like Cookie from Empire, and ended up with an actor and character, that couldn't deliver their intent. Every scene with her in it just made me cringe at how poorly delivered every single line was. Even her letting her implied class down and calling Misty a trick and a hoe and stuff seemed forced as gently caress. Couldn't stand the actor so much, the character was totally washed out and inconsequential for me. I swear to god when Luke breaks into Scarfe's apartment, they just looped Misty and Crooked Cop #2 running up the same flight of stairs 3 times to avoid shooting it. It just looked like a blatant "gently caress it just loop it to save time/money"I have to watch it again to be sure though. Weren't the Judas bullets supposed to explode and leave no trace so they can't be tracked? So why the gently caress was shrapnel stuck inside Luke? I get how regular-rear end shrapnel would have been trapped because of his body, but Shades told Diamondback they evaporate leaving no trace, so...? The end was kind of dumb to me. I mean sure, this was about Luke getting and dealing with his powers and life, "go back to go forward" but we start with Luke in Jail, end with Luke in jail. The system failed again, the NYPD is still useless. What did we get out of this we didn't get out of Daredevil? The fights were way way worse than DD, the moral of the story was the same thing, but we didn't even get any resolution, or cryptic yet tbd ending, or unexpected cameos. This show has an amazing soundtrack, genuine laughs, cool callbacks and throwbacks, a great overarching theme, and some fun fights, but there were a ton of weird decisions both with casting, and the story that didn't sit well with me. I cared about the story in DD, I was intrigued by JJ and even a bit scared of Kilgrave, but Luke Cage seemed a bit too little, too late. We get it, with great power comes great responsibility. Does every single Marvel movie/show have to have the main actor struggle with this concept besides Deadpool and Thor? I really wanted to be pumped while watching this one, but it felt more like the show was trying to make points about real life issues rather than tell a super heroes story while doing so. 
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Oct 4, 2016 08:46
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Last ep Hahahahahaha they actually did an unironic "remember who you are"
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Oct 4, 2016 08:50
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HIJK posted:An action driven story about how abuse perpetuated by adults on their children (purposefully or not) extends the cycle of violence and pain into the future, and that it negatively impacts the entire community and not only the victim. Wanderer posted:There's probably something to be said about "Daredevil" and the weight and costs of violence. I'd need to sit down and watch at least the first season again to be more specific. The series's Matt is someone who's trying very hard to uphold a system even though he has to go outside it to do so, whose vigilante activities are none-too-quietly about self-loathing and pure rage more than anything else. Its thematic approach isn't quite as neatly boiled down as either of the following shows, of course, but it's at least as noir as "Jessica Jones" was. I can buy these. Matt does get put up against a lot of people that shake his belief in the system, from Fisk to Castle. bloodychill posted:I could talk about what makes Jessica Jones a feminist show if you really, really want to hear about it. Talking/hearing about Jessica Jones' themes is one of my favorite things to do.
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Oct 4, 2016 08:50
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nerdman42 posted:What exactly was Daredevil's overarching theme and genre? Catholic guilt is a hell of a drug
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Oct 4, 2016 09:23
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Wheezle posted:I'd be interested. Here goes. For anyone who hasn't seen it and wants to but doesn't want spoilers, skip my post. I'm not going to spoiler the whole thing. Before I get in, I'll say that my argument relies on some assumptions- first, rape foremost about power and control, an assertion of someone's ability to control others and make themselves feel powerful. Second, feminism as I understand it is about establishing female equality by validating the experiences of women and raising their agency in society. At the center of JJ, we have two characters - Jessica Jones, a super-powered rape victim, and Kilgrave, a super-powered rapist. It's important to acknowledge that Kilgrave is more than a literal rapist - his ability completely takes other's control and self-determination away from them, so it's essentially an extension of the effects of rape. In his presence, other's agency is nothing. In a lot of ways also, he comes across very much as a manchild. He is complains that he is misunderstood, his parents were poo poo at raising him, his universe begins and ends with his well-being and his desires and no woman (or man for that matter) can stop him. He's the epitome of white male privilege that way. Everyone must understand him, everyone must sympathize with him. The one time he does good, he deserves recognition for it. To further this equivocation between a powerful rapist and Kilgrave, everyone rushes to his defense, denies that what he does his real, and most importantly denies the experiences of his victims. In stark contrast to Kilgrave, no matter what heroics Jessica might engage in, she's not going to get recognized and she's used to it. The police don't care and don't believe her. Her friends outside her BFF don't take her seriously. After seeing another victim of Kilgrave, she realizes that in order to restore her agency and that of Kilgrave's other victims, she must stop him. However, with no one backing her, she becomes obsessed with validating her experience and that of the girl who has become her proxy. "Oh you're crazy, no one can do that" echoes real-life statements like "Oh you're crazy, he'd never do that." In fact, Jessica goes to such great lengths to exposing these invisible crimes that others begin to pay the price and ultimately, she kinda sorta lets Kilgrave rape others so that she can finally be validated (Jessica's lawyer especially comes to mind). In the end, after validating her experience to an extent and getting a whole lot of people killed in the process, Jessica finally ends the now self-contemptuous Kilgrave uttering the word, "smile," a word that has become symbolic among feminists and women in general for the expectation that they always acquiesce and make pleasant the lives of the men they're around. I found it coming off a bit cheap, but also sort of cathartic. Ultimately I feel like the show is if nothing else, authentic in its exploration of rape and the destructive power it not only causes the victim but everyone around them as well as the issue of agency and how rape robs victims of it. It uses superpowers as a vehicle to express "this is what rape is like for its victims" and shows the unique type of destructive power it causes victims. I'd say the reason I prefer JJ to Luke or DD is for that reason. It feels authentic. When Jessica says, "I'm not a hero," you find yourself not only agreeing but understanding exactly why Jessica feels that way. It echoes the way women write about their confrontations with controlling men - they don't feel like heroes, they feel worn out because they're not just facing an individual, they're facing systems in place that minimize their capacity to make a difference. This is unlike Luke where, when he says "I'm not a hero," I feel the need to say "You hold yourself to a really high standard, but you're full of poo poo because you definitely are a hero" and I like that Claire actually calls him out on that. But to be fair, they're two different characters. Luke is always re-examining himself and trying to be the best version of himself. He's hard on himself when he fucks up. Meanwhile, Jessica is too traumatized to spend the time to be introspective even though she probably needs to be. The missing piece, and what I'd like to see S2 explore if there is one, is how reclaiming her agency changes Jessica. bloodychill fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Oct 4, 2016 |
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Oct 4, 2016 09:32
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Whoever's running the official Luke Cage twitter account is doing a bang up job https://twitter.com/karyewest/status/782221390581755904 https://twitter.com/LukeCage/status/782232452546736128 
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Oct 4, 2016 09:45
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Luke Cage was fun, but enough playing around. Gimme a drat Moon Knight show. No wishy washy "Should I even be a hero?!" nonsense. PTSD. Mercenaries. Werewolves. Fist of Khonshu.
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Oct 4, 2016 09:55
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:Last ep Hahahahahaha they actually did an unironic "remember who you are" Holy poo poo I totally forgot about that, cringed so hard.
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Oct 4, 2016 10:13
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:Weren't the Judas bullets supposed to explode and leave no trace so they can't be tracked? I think that was more meant to mean that they don't preserve any kind of ballistics evidence other than "he got shot and blowed up".
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Oct 4, 2016 11:33
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bloodychill posted:In the end, after validating her experience to an extent and getting a whole lot of people killed in the process, Jessica finally ends the now self-contemptuous Kilgrave uttering the word, "smile," a word that has become symbolic among feminists and women in general for the expectation that they always acquiesce and make pleasant the lives of the men they're around. I found it coming off a bit cheap, but also sort of cathartic. Been a while since I saw the entire season, but I agree that the ending lacked... I dunno, a proper resolution? Like you said, the whole point behind Jessica's plans was to prove to the world that Kilgrave existed, and not just for herself, but also so Hope could go back home and pick-up the pieces of her life alongside her brother. But that's the thing: no matter what she does, Hope will always be the girl who killed her parents. It's doubtful that even her brother and neighbors would believe her that she was under mind-control. Every episode, Jessica tell us that what matters is her getting hard-proof of Kilgrave's existence and mind-control, not just her getting revenge on him, which she could've had at several points before. Having Hope commit suicide and then Jessica finally accepting that she has to kill Kilgrave feels like the people behind the show realized they were now at their final episode and had to end the series somehow. I compare this to one of my favorite anime series (hey, it was on TV... Japanese TV!): Death Note. My favorite parts of both shows was the whole trying to get hard proof that the villain does have supernatural powers that allow him to do what he does, and how the hero and the villain come up with ways to try and get each other at situations where they don't have any way out. As part of the whole Defenders deal, I can see why her series came right after Daredevil: whereas Matt managed to show the world who Wilson Fisk really was, Jessica went on the other direction. She, and us the viewers, got some catharsis out of it, but for the rest of the people in-universe, things remain almost the same, because the conditions that created Kilgrave (both scientific and society) still exist, and could produce someone like him again. We saw some of that here with Luke Cage, at the end when Misty had everything she needed to put Mariah behind bars, but was too focused on not trusting the system, that it backfired on her. That's why at the very end he was ok with going back to prison, because this time he knows there are people on the outside who care about him, and that Harlem is not all about crime. Luke has understood that real change can happen, but it doesn't depend only on the system (Misty, Mariah, Cottonmouth), but also on the people outside it that want to do good (Pops, Claire, Bobby). Lurdiak posted:I think that was more meant to mean that they don't preserve any kind of ballistics evidence other than "he got shot and blowed up". Yeah, Luke was lucky he was resilient enough not to explode. Also, I think the bullets won't end up as much as a problem in-universe. Let's remember that Cottonmouth saw how much a single one costs and balked at the price. And he didn't doubt to use-up a rocket launcher before that. The 2.0 bullets are cheaper to MAKE, but their retail price must be still quite high. I don't think every police precinct in NY is going to be stocking them.
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Oct 4, 2016 12:45
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You can stop using spoilers now, it's been 72 hours. Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lYcmsfrI-U
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Oct 4, 2016 14:09
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Colter is so, so, good. I feel like the writing in this series was sub-par and really let him down. Mariah was great, too. Is there any work that actor's done that's really good? I'd like to see more of her.
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Oct 4, 2016 14:09
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german porn enthusiast posted:Colter is so, so, good. I feel like the writing in this series was sub-par and really let him down. Mariah was great, too. Is there any work that actor's done that's really good? I'd like to see more of her. Were we watching the same show? Outside of Episode 7 I thought Mariah's acting was pretty meh all around.
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Oct 4, 2016 14:11
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Mariah killed it in every scene she was in. Her chemistry with Cottonmouth alone was off the charts, not to mention how good it was whenever she and Shades interacted.
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Oct 4, 2016 14:12
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Party Plane Jones posted:Were we watching the same show? Outside of Episode 7 I thought Mariah's acting was pretty meh all around. This better be a joke.
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Oct 4, 2016 14:13
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MrAristocrates posted:You can stop using spoilers now, it's been 72 hours. Also: Or maybe just give it a few more days out of general decency, since most people are not going to blow through 13 hours of television in 3 days?
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Oct 4, 2016 14:25
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