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HEY GAL posted:this is a huuuuuge problem in the orthodox church in the us because there are so few of us that the ex-protestants who don't stop thinking like protestants (usually very conservative evangelicals or calvinists) can have an outsize effect. What do we know about this guy other than a strictly chronological account of his life? He is in my neck of the woods. REC and PCA ordinations screams crazy pants to me. Someone recommended ancient faith radio to me and I can't for the life of me remember who it was. I feel like it had to be someone in the ACNA.
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Oct 3, 2016 23:39
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Bel_Canto posted:...do you think this might perhaps be related to the fact that apologetics circles are occupied overwhelmingly by formerly-Protestant converts? Apologetics seems to exist mostly among inerrantists. Yes? Doesn't seem like something that concerns those of higher liturgical traditions.
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Oct 3, 2016 23:41
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WerrWaaa posted:What do we know about this guy other than a strictly chronological account of his life? He is in my neck of the woods. REC and PCA ordinations screams crazy pants to me. Someone recommended ancient faith radio to me and I can't for the life of me remember who it was. I feel like it had to be someone in the ACNA. http://patristicnectar.org/store_lectures_homilies.html ctrl+f "feminism," "good wife," "good husband," "marriage," and "love's thief" for examples of his thought. it's all from the denomination he left.
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Oct 3, 2016 23:47
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WerrWaaa posted:Apologetics seems to exist mostly among inerrantists. Yes? Doesn't seem like something that concerns those of higher liturgical traditions. Catholics have long had an apologetics tradition; it's not strictly a convert thing. On the other hand, the counterexample I was going to use was apparently a convert from Presbyterianism at the age of 16! (Frank Sheed - he did apologetics in the 1920s through the 1970s.)
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Oct 3, 2016 23:57
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Worthleast posted:Catholics have a saying that when a Protestant converts you gain a Catholic but don't lose a Protestant. I'm so proud of The Phlegmatist, he seems well-prepared to further infiltrate Protestant-think into Catholicism.
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Oct 4, 2016 00:18
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zonohedron posted:Catholics have long had an apologetics tradition; it's not strictly a convert thing. On the other hand, the counterexample I was going to use was apparently a convert from Presbyterianism at the age of 16! (Frank Sheed - he did apologetics in the 1920s through the 1970s.) That's very true! Would I be more accurate to say that current apologetics, the kind that is interested in proving God through shoddy science, is more intended to defend inerrant creation stories? It doesn't seem to me to be in the same vein as a philosophical apologetic.
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Oct 4, 2016 01:11
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Catholic thought literally predates atheism so I don't think the Catholic apologetic thrust has ever really had to concern itself with that. Catholic philosophical apologetics really aren't in the same vein as evangelical Christian "God exists and we'll prove it to you" or "evolution is a lie" style apologetics. Catholicism and Orthodoxy enjoy a privileged position of predating all of that and besides that also don't usually try to hold untenable scientific positions simply because institutionally they don't benefit at all from that. Evangelicals need to grow the flock by definition but for the liturgical churches status quo no problem.
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Oct 4, 2016 01:47
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WerrWaaa posted:That's very true! Would I be more accurate to say that current apologetics, the kind that is interested in proving God through shoddy science, is more intended to defend inerrant creation stories? It doesn't seem to me to be in the same vein as a philosophical apologetic. Absolutely. I mean, there's a huge difference between "Some things are contingent, but if everything were contingent then nothing would exist, therefore a completely necessary being exists, and this Necessary Being we call God," and "Hey, did you know eyeballs are complicated? They're super complicated! Nothing that complicated could exist without God! Therefore there is a God, and also he wants you to say the sinner's prayer, you sinner!" One of them is meant to be part of five doorstops worth of argument, the other one is meant to shut down argument.
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Oct 4, 2016 02:05
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I don't have time to write a coherent reply to everyone's replies to my post just yet, but I do want to say that I really appreciate that everyone's posts were really nice and thoughtful, like I've come to expect from this thread. 
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Oct 4, 2016 02:09
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A while back I listened to an audiobook version of the City of God to keep my mind busy while doing repetitive work and even though I couldn't truly focus thought it was great. Now I'm finally reading it properly and wow, St Augustine is just amazing. Reading Letter 130 to Proba on prayer was great too. Reading the sources that inspired so much of our theology and belief is so much better than reading someone rehashing their works for popular audiences (not that there's anything wrong with trying to make Church Fathers etc accessible).
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Oct 4, 2016 04:08
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Apocron posted:A while back I listened to an audiobook version of the City of God to keep my mind busy while doing repetitive work and even though I couldn't truly focus thought it was great. Now I'm finally reading it properly and wow, St Augustine is just amazing. Reading Letter 130 to Proba on prayer was great too. There really is something about listening to those personal narratives of faith that just makes them hit home so much harder, at least for me. -- Maybe y'all can help me with something. It's coming time for me to propose my capstone project (kind of a thesis paper for undergrads), which includes a preliminary list of sources. I'm writing mine on a few female Christian mystics (Julian of Norwich, Margery Kempe, Teresa of Avila, and Catherine of Bologna) and how they subvert the dichotomies of man-woman, mind-body, good-evil. I'm real excited about the project, but I feel like I don't have a great source to draw on to talk about the general perceptions of women in the period (~1350-1520, which I know is a crazy big time frame). In order to talk about how they disturbed those poles, I need to establish the existence of those poles. Any academic search I do of medieval dualism just brings up poo poo about the Cathars, which is great, but not what I need. So, anyone able to suggest any primary or secondary/academic sources dealing with the perception of women, especially from a religious point of view?
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Oct 4, 2016 04:47
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mythomanic posted:There really is something about listening to those personal narratives of faith that just makes them hit home so much harder, at least for me. Caroline Walker Bynum's Holy Feast and Holy Fast deals with medieval women's abstention from food as a mode of exercising agency in and control over their lives, and there's almost certainly stuff in there about the situation of medieval women in general; if nothing else, she'll almost certainly have an extremely comprehensive bibliography for you to ransack.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:37
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Empress Theonora posted:I don't have time to write a coherent reply to everyone's replies to my post just yet, but I do want to say that I really appreciate that everyone's posts were really nice and thoughtful, like I've come to expect from this thread. to you and any lurkers, seriously  This thread is enthusiastically welcoming of any and all viewpoints inside and out of Christianity. No one here is really out to convert you, this is the internet and we all have our strong opinions.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:48
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and If all else fails, just do what I did for 8 years and never think about your religious identity beyond "I love jesus and jesus loves me, gently caress the haters".
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Oct 4, 2016 05:58
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hello papists watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbkMan Whore posted:and If all else fails, just do what I did for 8 years and never think about your religious identity beyond "I love jesus and jesus loves me, gently caress the haters". welcome to protestantism
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Oct 4, 2016 05:59
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Oct 4, 2016 06:02
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tag urself im the toothed mitre
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Oct 4, 2016 06:09
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Bel_Canto posted:tag urself im the toothed mitre i'm "political roman catholic school"
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Oct 4, 2016 06:27
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Pellisworth posted:No one here is really out to convert you, this is the internet and we all have our strong opinions. I am Anime is blood
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Oct 4, 2016 06:31
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Smoking Crow posted:I am Anime, like God, is real
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Oct 4, 2016 06:42
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God-drat OCD is annoying, I'll tell you that. Theodora, you might have noticed that this thread suggested that acting like you're Christian (praying, going to the mass, clenching fists whenever you hear about gospel of prosperity) will eventually lead to being one. I hope that will work to shield me from the worm at the back of my mind who will use any possible doubt against my belief. On the off days, it will use any possible doubt against my girlfriend. Being conscious of it helps, but only a little.
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Oct 4, 2016 06:42
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StashAugustine posted:Anime, like God, is real Thread devolves into a multipage shitfight over sexualization of children, harem animes, plausibility of giant robots, otakus, escapism, Disney influences, ultraviolence and annoying teenage protagonists.
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Oct 4, 2016 06:45
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I don't really have any skin in the game, but I'm pretty sure you can be an ex-protestant catholic and not still think like a protestant. Humans undergo amazing paradigm transformations all the time, why should protestants be exempt. Also, what does patristic nectar mean? Do I want to know 
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Oct 4, 2016 08:27
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HEY GAL posted:this is a huuuuuge problem in the orthodox church in the us because there are so few of us that the ex-protestants who don't stop thinking like protestants (usually very conservative evangelicals or calvinists) can have an outsize effect. I'm surprised you didn't put Frank Schaffer up there
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Oct 4, 2016 08:36
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AmyL posted:I'm surprised you didn't put Frank Schaffer up there
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Oct 4, 2016 09:00
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Then they tend to shift certain goal-posts and then self-destruct
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Oct 4, 2016 09:06
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AmyL posted:Then they tend to shift certain goal-posts and then self-destruct
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Oct 4, 2016 09:08
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What does liberal or conservative have to do with anything regarding not following the tenets of your faith?
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Oct 4, 2016 09:15
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Paramemetic posted:Catholic thought literally predates atheism ...
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Oct 4, 2016 09:17
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hello to friends of many religions http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lebanon-mary-shrine-catholic-muslims_us_5745edfde4b0dacf7ad3bc85?utm_hp_ref=interfaith
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Oct 4, 2016 09:56
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HEY GAL posted:if you count atheist greeks and hindus, incorrect  I originally had typed out "modern scientific atheism" but didn't and now I'm undone.
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Oct 4, 2016 14:24
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JcDent posted:God-drat OCD is annoying, I'll tell you that. Doubt is a necessary part of faith. Faith without doubt is knowledge (or delusion). It should bother you that we can't physically prove any of this. That's why it's called "faith" in the first place. Embrace your doubt and use it to spur you on to greater understanding of your faith.
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Oct 4, 2016 14:47
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I don't think I have thought about it this way or I don't remember doing so. Still, OCD is means all doubts, all the time. And it comes from wanting to have power/be prepared for the worst. Like, one time, we basically WebMD'd that I might possibly have parkinsonitis or something. Doubts about God, life and everything? Gone with the wind, I have to think about how I'll live out my last 5-15 years! And, like I said, sometimes it switches gears to doubting relationship. I'm sure I'll never be without doubts, because there are only few things I don't doubt (physics, Marvel movies being trash, anise candies tasting horrible). EDIT: Anyways, I have great respect for Deteriorata's attitude towards faith and scientific stuff. I'm still perplexed by Cythereal's Poser 3D/horrible videogame AV, tho. JcDent fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Oct 4, 2016 |
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Oct 4, 2016 14:58
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Paramemetic posted:
I'm still waiting on you to share how you decided to go to Tibet and become Paramedic Strange.
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Oct 4, 2016 14:59
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JcDent posted:I don't think I have thought about it this way or I don't remember doing so. Still, OCD is means all doubts, all the time. And it comes from wanting to have power/be prepared for the worst. Like, one time, we basically WebMD'd that I might possibly have parkinsonitis or something. Doubts about God, life and everything? Gone with the wind, I have to think about how I'll live out my last 5-15 years! If it's any consolation, I've never stopped doubting my faith. Back when Jastiger was trolling the old thread, I put it like this: I acknowledge that I may very well be wrong about my belief in God. Maybe Christianity is correct. Maybe some other religion is, be it one that exists right now, one that once existed but has since been extinguished, or one that has yet to be founded. Maybe there is no God. Maybe God exists but he's a deist's god who cares nothing for us. All of this acknowledged, I still believe in God as a Christian (specifically drawing my theology mostly from Evangelical Christianity, especially pre-right-wing-nutjob Southern Baptism). Not because of any absolute certainty, but because I choose to. As for my avatar, it's from an old Star Trek Online thread in Games courtesy of goons deciding that my discomfort with the totally ironic racism and genocide jokes was a sign I was insufficiently getting into the spirit of things.
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Oct 4, 2016 15:33
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AmyL posted:What does liberal or conservative have to do with anything regarding not following the tenets of your faith? Why would it not?
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Oct 4, 2016 15:36
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Cythereal posted:As for my avatar, it's from an old Star Trek Online thread in Games courtesy of goons deciding that my discomfort with the totally ironic racism and genocide jokes was a sign I was insufficiently getting into the spirit of things. Back when I was playing STO, I no joke saw someone recruiting people for a Christian guild.
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Oct 4, 2016 15:44
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JcDent posted:Back when I was playing STO, I no joke saw someone recruiting people for a Christian guild. Yup. One recurring dude who still plays who the STO thread still makes fun of is a hardcore Christian fundamentalist furry who never shuts up about his fursona and was permabanned from the Star Wars: The Old Republic official forums for his nonstop flaming and trolling of the thread discussing [the absence of] homosexuality in Star Wars. And I am ashamed that I know this.
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Oct 4, 2016 15:48
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Cythereal posted:a hardcore Christian fundamentalist furry Come one, come all... There's no shame in knowing about internet drama; being the cause of said bullshit internet drama is something to be ashamed of
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Oct 4, 2016 16:00
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Tias posted:I don't really have any skin in the game, but I'm pretty sure you can be an ex-protestant catholic and not still think like a protestant. Humans undergo amazing paradigm transformations all the time, why should protestants be exempt. Oh sure, they totally can, it just won't happen overnight. It's like integrating into a new country that speaks the same language as you, at least on the surface, but people use some words differently and look at the world in very different ways. The part where we get annoyed (and this happens with converts to many religions, not just Protestant-to-Catholic) is when they start getting their undies in a bunch about how none of the people around them are sufficiently Catholic because they don't read the Catechism for fun. Not only is this deeply uncharitable and skirting close to mortal sin, but the breathtaking arrogance required to be a newcomer and tell people who were born and raised in a religion and have practiced it most or all of their lives that they're doing it wrong really beggars belief. It's like coming to live in Britain and telling the residents that they need to be more like the cast of Downton Abbey. But at least, like HEY GAL said, we have big enough numbers that an rear end in a top hat convert isn't going to be made a bishop: instead they just congregate on CatholicAnswers and r/Catholicism to bitch about their insufficiently-orthodox RCIA instructors.
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Oct 4, 2016 16:05
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