|
We seem to be made to suffer. It's our lot in life.
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 08:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 20:55 |
|
|
Neurophage posted:The prequels are no worse than the Hobbit trilogy and are certainly better than crap like Divergent or Resident Evil. However, they(and Twilight) collect an incredible amount of bile by Internet nerds, for reasons beyond my ability to understand. There's no Tezzor for X-Men Origins or A Good Day to Die Hard or any crappy Hollywood romantic comedy. I disagree. While Jedi has some very noticeable flaws, particularly the middle section between Jabba's Palace and the final battle, I can't think of anything in Phantom Menace that works nearly as well as the stuff in Jedi that's really good like the Luke/Vader/Emperor scenes, Jabba's Palace, and the space battle over Endor. The only things I really liked about Phantom Menace (the pod race, instance) always had something that would make me not like it quite as much. Regardless of personal views on the movies, it is extremely tiring whenever I see a criticism of the prequels be met with "But it was in the original trilogy too!" since that doesn't actually address the issue in any meaningful way. Not that this post was doing that, it just reminded me of that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 08:36
|
|
|
Lord Hydronium posted:My single favorite design in the prequels is the Trade Federation battleship, which has that same blend of the new and familiar that I talked about. I can't believe I never realized there were two different types of trade federation ships.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 08:44
|
|
|
Roth posted:Regardless of personal views on the movies, it is extremely tiring whenever I see a criticism of the prequels be met with "But it was in the original trilogy too!" since that doesn't actually address the issue in any meaningful way. Not that this post was doing that, it just reminded me of that. Oh, I agree. It's just that Jedi is incredibly poorly-shot even when compared to the prequels. And the script problems are at least as egregious: the neutering of Han Solo, the Leia twist etc. Still, both Phantom and Jedi are better than AOTC.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 09:01
|
|
|
Schwarzwald posted:I actually never noticed the little hands on the ship until now. -- My nonironic list of favourite star wars movies is: 3. TFA 2. TPM 1. ESB I feel I am not alone.............
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 09:53
|
|
|
counterfeitsaint posted:Coming to read this forum, and this thread specifically, is like going to the circus for the rest of SA. Watch the spectacle and then go back and laugh with your friends about it. http://forums.somethingawful.com/banlist.php?userid=219061
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 09:54
|
|
|
Tezzor the better technique is to pay me to argue ur dumb rear end points for you. I got no dignity and am down for $$$ at whatever cost
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 09:55
|
|
|
*Draws a triangle on a screencap from Attack of The Clones* this speaks for itself
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 09:57
|
|
|
Freakazoid_ posted:Here's something to get angry about : I found Data from Star Trek to be more human than any Star Wars droid depicted in any of the Star Wars films. I found Data to be more human than almost any Star Wars human because Spiner actually tried to act. I think the prequels were okay movies hampered by the fact that Lucas was obsessed with silent film and hated dialogue which made them way more of a chore to watch than they should've been. And, to be fair, the originals had a lot of bad dialogue, too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 10:55
|
|
|
Star Wars: Attack of the Tezzor Clones
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 11:54
|
|
|
Data's humanity in Star Trek was also a very explicit plot point that they clearly made an effort to explore. There's nothing wrong with musing about what Star Wars "says" about artificial life, but it has to be taken with a grain of salt, because I don't think there was any consistent effort to depict the real-world complexities of that. (Which is why it is so often argued that Star Wars isn't really "science fiction".) I respect the "death of the author" philosophy even though it's not my cup of tea; it's true that the author's views subconsciously impact what a work "says". I just posit that the aspects of a work that the author didn't really care about are likely to be riddled with contradictions and incoherence, so I question the merit of trying too hard to make sense of them. But whatever floats your boat, I guess. Not trying to stop anyone.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 13:28
|
|
|
There's literally a slave auction in the first fifteen minutes of A New Hope. Droids are subjected to torture to coerce them into serving Jabba the Hutt in Return of the Jedi. This is explicitly shown onscreen. Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUy1z-mnoIU
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 13:31
|
|
|
FuturePastNow posted:The prequels are really terrible and boring and I feel sorry for those of you who enjoy them. You feel sorry for people who like Star Wars movies ?
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 13:43
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:There are heroes on both sides. RIP Fighter Drone 14536-A. Not all heroes are sandwiches~
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:10
|
|
|
It's always really funny when we cycle back to the contention about whether or not the droids represent actual characters and not just servile entities. It's pretty much the easiest way to find out who actually likes Star Wars.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:15
|
|
|
What's the deal with restraining bolts? What are they restraining droids from doing? Exercising their free will? The implanted bombs that Anakin and Shmi have are a pretty distinct echo of restraining bolts, but only the bombs get regularly discussed. I wonder why.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:18
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:It's always really funny when we cycle back to the contention about whether or not the droids represent actual characters and not just servile entities. It's pretty much the easiest way to find out who actually likes Star Wars. It also reveals who understands basic concepts about AI too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:19
|
|
|
Real world and even Star Trek level understanding of AI is entirely irrelevant. The droids in Star Wars are not meant to represent robots.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:28
|
|
|
the films never, that I remember, touch upon the potentially interesting idea that droids start out as simple and functional machines and kind of develop personality quirks and sentience over time do they? I swear mace tells anakin r2 he's getting a bit too much of a personality and needs a mind wipe, but maybe that's a thing from a cartoon.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:29
|
|
|
Serf posted:There's literally a slave auction in the first fifteen minutes of A New Hope. Droids are subjected to torture to coerce them into serving Jabba the Hutt in Return of the Jedi. This is explicitly shown onscreen. They're second-class citizens. ANH - Captured and sold by Jawas - 3PO literally says being made to suffer is their lot in life - Uncle Owen decides wiping their memory is no big deal - Kicked out of a bar for being robots - R2 gets destroyed during the trench run, no one in the control room really cares; when they return to Yavin, 3PO is making GBS threads himself at R2's demise while Luke goes, "He'll be fine" ESB - 3PO introduces himself to Lando, Lando walks away mid-conversation - The gang finds 3PO in pieces, Han's not really alarmed; Ugnaughts played keep-away with 3PO's body parts - Han generally treats 3PO like poo poo, Yoda looks down on R2 ROTJ - Droids are tortured and pulled apart for poor service to Jabba - Despite Ewoks' worship of 3PO, both Han and Luke use this for tactical gain
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:30
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:It also reveals who understands basic concepts about AI too. No it dorsn't, because that has gently caress all to do with the movies sbout space wizards.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:30
|
|
|
cargohills posted:Real world and even Star Trek level understanding of AI is entirely irrelevant. The droids in Star Wars are not meant to represent robots. quote:No it dorsn't, because that has gently caress all to do with the movies sbout space wizards. I'm not disagreeing with K. Waste, guys. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Oct 4, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:34
|
|
|
Its obvious that droids are meant to represent second class citizens, but its also obvious that using robots as standins has caused some problems among viewers due to the elaboration and understanding of such concepts since the 70's. It's pretty stupid to handwave either away.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:38
|
|
|
For all intents and purposes, it appears that the Star Wars universe has nothing in the way of non-sentient machines. Just going off what happens onscreen, I believe they never found a way to create a droid that wasn't also a person. But they disregard the personhood of droids because of course they do. Star Wars is not a science-fiction franchise with something to say about AI or the ramifications of machine consciousness. It is a fantasy franchise with something to say about racism and the treatment of the perceived underclass.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:40
|
|
|
Red posted:- 3PO literally says being made to suffer is their lot in life Not just this, but the way he expresses it is very particular and non-objective: "We seem to be made to suffer." He's intrinsically holding out the hope that his condition is by accident, and not by design.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:41
|
|
|
Serf posted:For all intents and purposes, it appears that the Star Wars universe has nothing in the way of non-sentient machines. Just going off what happens onscreen, I believe they never found a way to create a droid that wasn't also a person. But they disregard the personhood of droids because of course they do. Star Wars is not a science-fiction franchise with something to say about AI or the ramifications of machine consciousness. It is a fantasy franchise with something to say about racism and the treatment of the perceived underclass. Thats great and all, but audiences will still consider other fictional AI stories when they see a tin man on screen.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:41
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:Not just this, but the way he expresses it is very particular and non-objective: "We seem to be made to suffer." He's intrinsically holding out the hope that his condition is by accident, and not by design. Bad news Friend Besto. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:42
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Thats great and all, but audiences will still consider other fictional AI stories when they see a tin man on screen. I know, and that what makes it so great to me. The inability to look past how a person looks and see them for what they really are is fascinating.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:44
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Thats great and all, but audiences will still consider other fictional AI stories when they see a tin man on screen. This is a really wishy-washy position. What are these other fictional AI stories, specifically? Because there's also a preponderance of media outside of Star Wars featuring robots/cyborgs as characters and not just servile entities, everything from children's T.V. shows and cartoons to R-rated action films. This also doesn't square away with what you wrote previously, which is that "using robots as standins has caused problems among viewers."
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:49
|
|
|
Serf posted:I know, and that what makes it so great to me. The inability to look past how a person looks and see them for what they really are is fascinating. It's not really that simple though; it's less an otherizing and more applying learned concepts to similar characters (in appearance). It doesnt require prejudice to think that the black guy always dies first/early in old horror/action movies (and newer ones, in the case of Dont Breathe).
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:50
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:This is a really wishy-washy position. What are these other fictional AI stories, specifically? Because there's also a preponderance of media outside of Star Wars featuring robots/cyborgs as characters and not just servile entities, everything from children's T.V. shows and cartoons to R-rated action films. I'm primarily referring to a number of stories and films where an artificial person is questioned in terms of sentience ("is this a person, or a device with a very human UI") and malleability. You are right that there are plenty stories that humanize them, but the conflicting themes are real and understood in western pop culture.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:53
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:It's not really that simple though; it's less an otherizing and more applying learned concepts to similar characters (in appearance). It doesnt require prejudice to think that the black guy always dies first/early in old horror/action movies (and newer ones, in the case of Dont Breathe). People who say that need to watch more horror movies
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:53
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:It's not really that simple though; it's less an otherizing and more applying learned concepts to similar characters (in appearance). It doesnt require prejudice to think that the black guy always dies first/early in old horror/action movies (and newer ones, in the case of Dont Breathe). What you're describing is literally how children learn to be racist. Except here it is: Talking metal man = non-person machine. Also I'd recommend watching Dawn of the Dead and Day of the Dead, which both run contrary to that stereotype.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:56
|
|
|
Or Night of The Living Dead or Return of the Living Dead lmao
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 14:57
|
|
|
I didnt say that I subscribe to that belief, only that it's a common belief among audiences and their expectations of films that its been referenced numerous times throughout pop culture, from essays to stories to movies to even childrens' cartoons. It's not a judgement on the black character in the film, but of the director's intent and overall logic in the film. Audiences do not view works of fiction in a vacuum, thats a part of SMG's point when he calls [new film] a sequel to Bee Movie or Transformers or someshit. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Oct 4, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 15:01
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:I'm primarily referring to a number of stories and films where an artificial person is questioned in terms of sentience ("is this a person, or a device with a very human UI") and malleability. You are right that there are plenty stories that humanize them, but the conflicting themes are real and understood in western pop culture. There are no stories where you're meant to question the sentience of an artificial person, and then come to the conclusion that they actually are just machines and its totally cool to treat them like poo poo. Or if there is, I can't think of any. Robots/androids are almost always used as a way to get the audience to examine their own beliefs about which classes of people we should be allowed to exploit( the answer is none). Even movies that aren't "about" that question still raise it and deal with it in their own way. Terminator 2, a huge blockbuster Arnoldfest, spends a lot of time examining just how much humanity a killer robot can develop given the right circumstances. There's almost literally no reason to include robots in a movie otherwise, the list of movies that just use them as visually interesting props and nothing else is very short.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 15:07
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:There are no stories where you're meant to question the sentience of an artificial person, and then come to the conclusion that they actually are just machines and its totally cool to treat them like poo poo. Or if there is, I can't think of any. If there are I'd like to read them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 15:10
|
|
|
When you think about it, all character is a matter of artificial intelligence and programed performance.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 15:16
|
|
|
Random question: Was there any significance in having the rebels make three trench runs in A New Hope?
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 15:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 20:55 |
|
|
Red posted:Random question: Was there any significance in having the rebels make three trench runs in A New Hope? Its to make the audience feel the desperation of the situation. If Luke doesn't make his shot, its game over(man). The other runs show how much of a suicide mission it is so it ups the stakes for the audience. I don't see any obvious symbolism in it if that's what you're asking.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2016 15:23
|
|