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Taking a break from skill chat, I'm going to be running a short campaign set in kind of a Terminator/XCOM2 setting where sentient robots have taken over the world. War-based campaigns are often kind of light on RP, so I was hoping to come up with some kind of overarching campaign mini game to give some context to the missions. Anyone have any ideas from this or even other games? I was thinking of trying to adapt the team conflict rules, where they could choose to go on different missions that would be the different actions, and maybe failing the mission gives them a -1 to attack or defense.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:32
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| # ? May 24, 2024 20:40 |
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LAST CHANCE TO GET IN FEEDBACK ON THE ERRATA See the errata here. If you read it before, the new changes based on feedback are in pink. The Green text is for making 3 At-Wills standard for all classes, which I am leaning towards. (Nobody has objected so far or come up with a good reason not to do it - but if you have one, please tell me!) ImpactVector posted:Taking a break from skill chat, I'm going to be running a short campaign set in kind of a Terminator/XCOM2 setting where sentient robots have taken over the world. I've got several very rough notes on mini-games for X-COM. I had exactly the same thought - when you play a team of commandos, you don't have as much RP binding things together. So I was working on ideas for players to take on roles like Scientist and Spymaster and Interceptor Command and etc. each with an associated minigame and resource allocation. Sadly, none of the minigames are done yet or even in a share-able state, or else I'd be happy to share them. The one that seems the most fun so far is the UFO-interception one that uses the dice mechanic from Can't Stop to model weaving in close to do more damage while dodging fire and avoiding getting shot down. The one that has me the most stumped is the stealth-based infiltration mini-game inspired by the cool little Rogue-like Hoplite - that one wasn't translating to the tabletop very well. It'll be cool when I get the time to revisit them and write them out properly - I put that stuff aside over the summer to work on the new Classes and Monsters instead.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:13
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Jimbozig posted:LAST CHANCE TO GET IN FEEDBACK ON THE ERRATA “On the target’s next turn, they must spend a Move Action to make their best effort to move as far away from you as possible with that one action, or else take 3 damage.” Does that mean that a monster can spend a Move Action to shift 1 square away from you and be okay? After all, that's as far as their shift can take them. Or, do they have to use the move action that will carry them the farthest regardless of the danger of using it?
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Oct 4, 2016 05:40
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Ferrinus posted:“On the target’s next turn, they must spend a Move Action to make their best effort to move as far away from you as possible with that one action, or else take 3 damage.” No. How can I word it so it's crystal clear? They can't shift because that's not as far away from you as possible - they could have gone farther with that action if they had moved instead.
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Oct 4, 2016 06:30
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Jimbozig posted:No. How can I word it so it's crystal clear? They can't shift because that's not as far away from you as possible - they could have gone farther with that action if they had moved instead. Explicitly giving the example that a shift isn't good enough if a further move is possible will be less ambiguous than any wording of it as a rule.
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Oct 4, 2016 06:39
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“On the target’s next turn, they must spend a Move Action to move as far away from you as possible with that one action, using the mode of movement that allows them to move the most squares/greatest distance, or else take 3 damage.” I dunno I've only just started to read the rules  On a sidenote, hello, I've only just started to read the rules, we're giving Strike! a try for our Halloween game and I will have many questions.
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Oct 4, 2016 08:20
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"On their next turn, they must move as far away from you as they can with one Move Action." But really in my opinion you should just remove the weird judgement call and say "they must end their turn at least 2 squares away from you or take 3 damage."
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Oct 4, 2016 08:26
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I guess I really don't understand why that rule is causing so many problems. Maybe adding in the no-shifting example, but to me shifting one square is not making your best effort to get away from the fear source. That seems like something for a FAQ if you have/are planning to have noe?
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Oct 4, 2016 17:54
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I hate to be that annoying guy who comes into a long-running discussion and innocently makes an argument that's new to him but groanworthily played out to everyone else, but it really seems like Terrifying Visage is at its most clear just the way it is now, given that moving one's speed is clearly defined as something entirely separate from shifting. If you shift, you don't move your speed, because your speed is (probably) 6. Insofar as any clarification is needed, for my money that would be "is the target supposed to stay away" because the way it is now it seems like it could just fulfill the condition by moving away, then charge the Necromancer. If not, the effect should read something like "target must on its next turn use its Move Action to move its speed away from you, and must end its turn at that distance or farther from you." Anyway, my first question: my group is used to 4E, has anyone made a list of stuff that tends to trip up 4E players that I could give them? Things like "you can split your movement" or "opportunities are automatic damage" and such.
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Oct 4, 2016 18:06
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bbcisdabomb posted:I guess I really don't understand why that rule is causing so many problems. Maybe adding in the no-shifting example, but to me shifting one square is not making your best effort to get away from the fear source. That seems like something for a FAQ if you have/are planning to have noe? Given how much everybody loves the jetpack, I think it's best to clarify whether the creature affected has to literally move as far as it can, or just expend a Move action and use it to its fullest. A creature with different Move speeds (Flying/Burrowing/Teleporting/whatever) could be confusing.
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Oct 4, 2016 18:07
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bbcisdabomb posted:I guess I really don't understand why that rule is causing so many problems. Maybe adding in the no-shifting example, but to me shifting one square is not making your best effort to get away from the fear source. That seems like something for a FAQ if you have/are planning to have noe? The wording is ambiguous as to whether it means "pick a move action; move as far as you can with that action" or "out of all move actions you can make, go the farthest you can by spending one". I think most would rule that a single shift wouldn't qualify, but for an otherwise highly mechanical system, this power stands out. Other question: the "Clarifications" section says you don't provoke opportunities for actions you don't control. Does this apply to Terrifying Visage? My Lovely Horse posted:I hate to be that annoying guy who comes into a long-running discussion and innocently makes an argument that's new to him but groanworthily played out to everyone else, but it really seems like Terrifying Visage is at its most clear just the way it is now, given that moving one's speed is clearly defined as something entirely separate from shifting. If you shift, you don't move your speed, because your speed is (probably) 6. I posted a bunch of questions based on how I thought the current version was stated. My interpretation was not what was intended. In particular, "must move your speed away" suggested to me that every square of movement must increase distance (like a push). Also, that "shift your speed" and "teleport your speed" powers wouldn't apply either, but that was also not intended. eth0.n fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Oct 4, 2016 |
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Oct 4, 2016 18:08
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homullus posted:A creature with different Move speeds (Flying/Burrowing/Teleporting/whatever) could be confusing.
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Oct 4, 2016 18:10
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My Lovely Horse posted:"If the target has different speeds, it must use the greatest"? "If the target has different speeds, it must use one that causes it to end its turn furthest away." Edit: or perhaps even more specifically "If the target has different movement modes or speeds, it uses one that both costs a Move action and ends its move as many spaces from you as possible." homullus fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Oct 4, 2016 |
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Oct 4, 2016 18:17
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Must move as far away as possible with one action.
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Oct 4, 2016 18:18
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Mind you, if I used the power on a creature I knew had a burrowing speed of 4 and a teleport speed of 10, I couldn't even fault the DM for ruling it used the burrow because it would feel safer from me underground. The dreaded Phase Mole.
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Oct 4, 2016 18:24
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slap me and kiss me posted:Must move as far away as possible with one action. Striker monster's "Mobile Strike" power allows shifting one square before or after the Attack Action. Does this qualify?
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Oct 4, 2016 18:25
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My Lovely Horse posted:Anyway, my first question: my group is used to 4E, has anyone made a list of stuff that tends to trip up 4E players that I could give them? Things like "you can split your movement" or "opportunities are automatic damage" and such. gently caress I didn't think I'd played enough 4E to be in too deep with the assumptions but apparently I was mistaken.
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Oct 4, 2016 18:25
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eth0.n posted:Striker monster's "Mobile Strike" power allows shifting one square before or after the Attack Action. Does this qualify? If the monster's speed was 1, then yes, shifting one square is as far away as possible. If the speed isn't 1, then shifting one space isn't as far away as possible.
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Oct 4, 2016 18:29
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Honestly I don't think there's any way to reword that power which doesn't introduce some other weird edge case. It's fine as it is, especially if you have an FAQ to handle people who ask "wait, what if they move as far as they can...and then move AGAIN?" If you have such an FAQ section it would also be worth mentioning that "best effort" doesn't mean they have to move through dangerous terrain or jump off a cliff or whatever. Unless that is the rules intent, of course.
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Oct 4, 2016 18:33
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"On their next turn, they must spend a Move Action to move as far from you as possible, ignoring other hazards, except blocking terrain or obviously immediately fatal ones." Avoids the "you have to jump off the cliff" problem, and the "oh I used a non-standard move to game this effect." Beyond a certain point you have to allow some judgement in tabletop rules. I think in this case the intent wasn't entirely clear, so it did need refinement, but if someone is insisting on a bad faith reading to avoid the negative effects, there's really no way to get around that.
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Oct 4, 2016 18:39
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"It takes 3 damage if it doesn't end its turn at least 3 (or whatever number) squares away" is probably the simplest way to do it.
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Oct 4, 2016 18:41
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Ferrinus posted:"It takes 3 damage if it doesn't end its turn at least 3 (or whatever number) squares away" is probably the simplest way to do it. e: Jimbozig posted:I've got several very rough notes on mini-games for X-COM. I had exactly the same thought - when you play a team of commandos, you don't have as much RP binding things together. So I was working on ideas for players to take on roles like Scientist and Spymaster and Interceptor Command and etc. each with an associated minigame and resource allocation. Sadly, none of the minigames are done yet or even in a share-able state, or else I'd be happy to share them. The one that seems the most fun so far is the UFO-interception one that uses the dice mechanic from Can't Stop to model weaving in close to do more damage while dodging fire and avoiding getting shot down. The one that has me the most stumped is the stealth-based infiltration mini-game inspired by the cool little Rogue-like Hoplite - that one wasn't translating to the tabletop very well. It'll be cool when I get the time to revisit them and write them out properly - I put that stuff aside over the summer to work on the new Classes and Monsters instead. Plus the setting was collaboratively created with Microscope, so no matter what happens we're adding details to the history. ImpactVector fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Oct 4, 2016 |
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Oct 4, 2016 18:43
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Ferrinus posted:"It takes 3 damage if it doesn't end its turn at least 3 (or whatever number) squares away" is probably the simplest way to do it. It's simpler, but only requiring characters to move three squares away doesn't seem to capture the spirit of the power, which is forcing a full-speed attempt to escape. The power isn't hard to adjudicate as long as the intent – the character really has to use their move action to get as far away as possible, no being cute about what sort of move action the character does to try to limit the distance travelled – is clear. Making the power both less powerful and less evocative is not necessary.
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Oct 4, 2016 18:51
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"3 squares" is simpler. Any number higher than 2 creates synergies with things that Slow, though.
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Oct 4, 2016 18:55
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No compelled movement at all is even simpler.
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Oct 4, 2016 19:05
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Sir Kodiak posted:No compelled movement at all is even simpler. Well, uhh, so is getting rid of every power except the MBA and RBA. The Necromancer has a "fear" flavor option, and Terrifying Visage is meant to manifest that mechanically. I suppose it could just give Panicked?
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Oct 4, 2016 19:10
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homullus posted:Well, uhh, so is getting rid of every power except the MBA and RBA. The Necromancer has a "fear" flavor option, and Terrifying Visage is meant to manifest that mechanically. Right, and forcing someone to stroll only half their movement speed away and then hang out there isn't as much of a manifestation as them running full-speed away. Simplicity isn't the only goal. A certain amount of complexity in the tactical combat is a selling point of the system. Particularly if it makes for more evocative powers. Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Oct 4, 2016 |
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Oct 4, 2016 19:12
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Sir Kodiak posted:Right, and forcing someone to stroll only half their movement speed away and then hang out there isn't as much of a manifestation as them running full-speed away. I got interrupted while reading the thread and then posted stuff semi-disagreeing with you, which is dumb and bad because I agree with you and would rather have a rulesy Terrifying Visage than a simpler Sort of Off-Putting Visage.
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Oct 4, 2016 19:25
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My Lovely Horse posted:Anyway, my first question: my group is used to 4E, has anyone made a list of stuff that tends to trip up 4E players that I could give them? Things like "you can split your movement" or "opportunities are automatic damage" and such. Marks don't overwrite; they stack.
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Oct 4, 2016 23:15
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Auralsaurus Flex posted:Marks don't overwrite; they stack. There is no limit on when or how many triggered actions you can use. You can use as many Free Actions as you like, but only on your turn. Which Statuses give people Advantage and on which attacks is entirely different than 4e.
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Oct 5, 2016 05:23
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Like half of that stuff we don't have properly engrained with 4E even after years of playing it  Thanks. General question: I've caught on that you're not supposed to use tactical combat powers outside of tactical combat. What about using skills in tactical combat? The background leads into a specific question: one of my players wants to play as a ghost and would like if he could walk through walls. My instinct is to give him a restricted skill called Walk Through Walls, where twists could be that he picks the wrong spot or sees something on the other side he wasn't supposed to or finds a secret room. Inevitably, though, and not unreasonably, he'll want to phase through a wall in combat. How do?
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Oct 5, 2016 08:23
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The feat Superhuman lets you pick an unusual movement type, and one of them is being able to move through solid objects.
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Oct 5, 2016 08:25
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Well bloody hell, that is impressively convenient. Don't even need to bother with the skill.
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Oct 5, 2016 08:29
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My Lovely Horse posted:Well bloody hell, that is impressively convenient. Don't even need to bother with the skill.
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Oct 5, 2016 12:55
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Auralsaurus Flex posted:Marks don't overwrite; they stack. Also, Slowed is 2, not half.
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Oct 5, 2016 14:08
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homullus posted:Also, Slowed is 2, not half. Something I consistently forget. But I like it better this way because it is equally bad no matter how fast the affected target is.
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Oct 5, 2016 14:10
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Slowed is 2 in 4E too. It's difficult terrain and such that has you moving at half speed.ImpactVector posted:We just had a huge slap fight about this issue in the thread but theoretically, since combat powers are their own thing, you might decide that if they want to be able to do it outside combat they'll need to make it a Trick as well. Shade background already has a skill named Incorporeal. That sounds like a good fit.
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Oct 5, 2016 14:27
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homullus posted:Also, Slowed is 2, not half. That's the same as 4E. The difference vs 4E is that in Strike, Slowed also prevents Shifting. Actually, I'm a little unclear on how it's supposed to work. The rules say "cannot spend a Move Action to Shift". I'm guessing the intent is this only applies to the default Shift ability everyone has, but would it also prevent other Move Action powers that include a Shift (e.g., the Rogue's Flank)? Obviously, "Shift up to your Speed" powers like that are already affected by the reduced Speed. If I'm correct on intent, I'd suggest making the built-in Shift ability a named At-Will Move Action Power, and have Slowed refer to it.
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Oct 5, 2016 14:30
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Also: When someone misses with all their attack rolls on an attack, they get a Miss Token that they can spend in that battle to get a +1 on a roll. The environment/arena should generally have miss triggers just like enemies. Keep those in mind as a good way to bring in reinforcements, alter terrain, etc.
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Oct 5, 2016 19:33
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ElegantFugue posted:The environment/arena should generally have miss triggers just like enemies. Keep those in mind as a good way to bring in reinforcements, alter terrain, etc. If you're ever at a loss for a Miss Effect, the answer is always "something explodes."
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Oct 5, 2016 20:13
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