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DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:he was. then he fell from the light of the emperor, and serves only khorne now He found himself on a chaos planet, and then things got weird. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji9qSuQapFY
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Sep 28, 2016 20:35
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Skellybones posted:So what you're saying is we need a Deathwatch squad made of handyman-themed astartes armed with improvised garage tools which are far superior to actual weapons. It's ironic how in real life weapons were adapted from tools/weapons meant for hunting, so axes, sickles, hammers, heavier anti-personnel spears etc. But while in 40k they've weaponized chainsaws, according to Deathwatch actual tools are way better than any tool adapted primarily for fighting. Later games have "lascutters" which do ungodly damage but only against completely stationary targets since it is not a weapon its' literally a welding torch. Perhaps if they had had an opportunity to reintroduce breaching augurs and bulkhead shears they'd give them similar limitations.
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Sep 28, 2016 21:32
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That's not really ironic at all, plenty of weapons were originally designed for killing people, and a welding torch will very much hurt you in real life as well. Somehow you've managed to be wrong in three separate ways despite posting only once.
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Sep 29, 2016 15:03
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Waci posted:That's not really ironic at all, plenty of weapons were originally designed for killing people, and a welding torch will very much hurt you in real life as well. Somehow you've managed to be wrong in three separate ways despite posting only once. I mean no poo poo it i will hurt you but if you wanted to make a combat welder you'd want to shape it differently.
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Sep 29, 2016 15:10
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What if you combine them into a set of giant crab claws with a torch in the middle? It'd be like the dreadnought close combat weapon with the flamer from the DOW II trailer. Or apply it after a successful grapple, like a scorpion. A las scorpion.
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Sep 29, 2016 15:36
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Rockopolis posted:Or apply it after a successful grapple, like a scorpion Hmmm...
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Sep 29, 2016 15:42
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Arachniden macht feurig? Eh, that seems like more of a Tyranid motto, like for Pyrovores.
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Sep 29, 2016 15:56
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I tested out making some characters in DH2 since I'm thinking of running it soon, and I don't think I like the creation system too much. You really have to know what sort of aptitudes you need for specific talents in advance, or you can easily lock yourself out of good stuff. For example I wanted to make a Skitarii type character, so I went with Forge World/Adeptus Mechanicus/Warrior. The problem is that nothing in this combination gives you Finesse aptitude, so you pay extra for ballistic skill, which is pretty much the most important characteristic for a character like this. Imperial Guard also doesn't give you finesse, so that's equally bad. I also tried making a penal colony/Ministorum/Heirophant who would specialize in fellowship and leadership, and be the guy with lots of contacts, etc. So Contact Network would seem to be a logical talent for a character like this to take. Unfortunately it has the prerequisite of Cover Up, which for this character costs 900 friggin XP. I know some people in the thread have mentioned just setting static costs for everything and I'm curious about how that works out. It kind of sucks that it makes all the characters a little more generic, but the aptitude system as is just feels poorly thought out. It also makes character creation a nightmare of referencing XP cost charts and the like.
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Oct 3, 2016 06:19
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I mean, for the skitarii, Warrior has more of a melee bent and would work better as your generic 40k (skitarii) sergeant with a melee weapon. If you're looking for something that gets both ballistic skill and finesse, you're looking at Assassin instead. For Cover up/contact network, that's intended to have kind of weird pre-reqs because it's the sort of thing a turbo nerd would get. Also since you get 2x toughness aptitudes between Penal World and Heirophant, you get a free characteristic based aptitude of your choice, stick that extra aptitude into Int and suddenly Cover up/ Contact Network becomes way less of a pain to purchase. Honestly, I really think the Aptitude system is way less onerous than what came before it in DH1/Rogue Trader/DeathWatch. This derail comes up every couple of pages though because there are people who feel strongly in the other direction. Edit: DH2 would benefit from the Only War system that allowed you to change your specialty at EXP breakpoints so you have a bit more depth in how you build your character.
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Oct 3, 2016 14:35
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DeathSandwich posted:Edit: DH2 would benefit from the Only War system that allowed you to change your specialty at EXP breakpoints so you have a bit more depth in how you build your character. Basically this is the argument down to its basic. However, the aptitude problem goes away if the game ever gets to high exp levels. I'm playing a shrine world guard hierophant as basically a melee social character, and I decided to dual wielding with him. I lack finesse, so all the dual wielding talents and swift attack were expensive as hell. At the same time our game just reached 20,000 experience and I never felt like I wasn't able to get what I wanted along with my social stuff as well. I'm still the most social character in the party, plus when the dual wielding swift attack got pulled off right I would be doing massive damage, even more so now that I got power swords.
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Oct 3, 2016 15:11
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Well it's my first time making characters so maybe I just need some more familiarity with the system. Some of my players are pretty new to RPGs so I don't want them to get screwed by picking something that doesn't end up fitting their character. Sorry if it's a derail that's come up before, I didn't remember reading anything about it here recently. I do really like the flexibility of the system (some of DH1s classes were pretty rough). And I like that each home world etc. Gives you a unique and flavorful ability of some sort.
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Oct 3, 2016 20:52
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The flaws in the aptitude system are most notable at low XP levels and when players don't game the system to make the advances they want cheap (which is easy to do if you're just picking things that sound cool). If you're really worried about it just have everything have a flat cost.
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Oct 3, 2016 21:14
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let your players pick two good stats and one bad stat; four characteristic aptitudes and three non-characteristic aptitudes; homeworld, background and role as usual if your players powergame this, thrash them with a rubber hose until they stop
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Oct 3, 2016 21:46
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DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:if your players powergame, thrash them with a rubber hose until they stop moving
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Oct 4, 2016 00:13
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Blisster posted:I know some people in the thread have mentioned just setting static costs for everything and I'm curious about how that works out. It kind of sucks that it makes all the characters a little more generic, but the aptitude system as is just feels poorly thought out. It really doesn't make all characters generic because the players don't have infinite XP and the average game will end a long time before they are finished buying stuff. A lot of classless RPGs have static costs for everything and unless players really want to make similar or generalist characters none of them will feel generic. The psyker will still buy mostly psyker stuff and the guardsman will likely mostly buy combat stuff as well, so each has their niche, it just becomes easier for people to spend experience and branch out, and for the GM to know how much experience points are worth. Throw Aptitudes into the trashfire and don't look back.
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Oct 4, 2016 16:12
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What I mostly find strange is that the Warrior role can't buy Weapon Training any more easily than most other roles, which for an archetype that's pretty much supposed to be about using ALL the weapons seems kind of strange. Even if, yes, in practice the added XP cost may or may not matter all that much. Well, and then there's the whole Ace thing.
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Oct 4, 2016 16:46
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ZearothK posted:It really doesn't make all characters generic because the players don't have infinite XP and the average game will end a long time before they are finished buying stuff. A lot of classless RPGs have static costs for everything and unless players really want to make similar or generalist characters none of them will feel generic. The psyker will still buy mostly psyker stuff and the guardsman will likely mostly buy combat stuff as well, so each has their niche, it just becomes easier for people to spend experience and branch out, and for the GM to know how much experience points are worth. I know I'm always the one defending the aptitudes. I want it known that I agree with you, fixed cost classless systems are great for making the character you want. But that isn't what we got with the FFG RPGS. Between the DH 1 system of the level charts and limitations or the more open aptitude system? I think the aptitudes is better. If someone wants to slap together aptitudeless flat costs for stats, skills, and talents then go right ahead.
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Oct 4, 2016 16:48
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Oh yeah, Aptitudes were a lot better than the more constrained careers with limited elite advances, no question about that. It is a pretty simple thing to do, really. Pick two Favored and two Neglected stats. STATS: -Favoured: 100 - 250 - 500 - 750 - 1000 -Normal: 250 - 500 - 750 - 1000 - 1250 -Neglected: 500 - 750 - 1000 - 1250 - 1500 SKILLS: Trained: 100 XP Experienced (+10): 200 XP Expert (+20): 300 XP Veteran (+30): 400 XP TALENTS: Tier 1: 200 XP Tier 2: 400 XP Tier 3: 600 XP This way you can average between 200-400 XP per session depending on how quickly you want the PCs to develop or how much stuff happened if you prefer to reward them that way and just call it a day. I've been using this in my hacked 40K and WFRP games and it's been working pretty well.
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Oct 4, 2016 17:07
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This looks like a clean system I might try the next time I run a new game. I typically run black crusade, but this probably works better than alignment based.
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Oct 4, 2016 17:45
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DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:if your players powergame this, thrash them with a rubber hose until they stop irl or do you port a Bloodthirster over from Deathwatch if they 'happen' to encounter a greater daemon? For those who don't know, the DW Bloodthirster has 99 WS, will likely kill any character in a single hit, and has an ability where it can make its melee attack undodgeable and unparryable at least four times in one combat. Not to mention the fact that it's ded 'ard and will laugh off almost everything but a Force Weapon.
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Oct 4, 2016 18:12
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Even then, doesn't it have like 200 wounds and a combined 20-30 damage reduction between toughness and daemon traits?
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Oct 4, 2016 18:33
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That's what sanctified weapons and a squad of Grey Knights on standby are for.
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Oct 4, 2016 18:58
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Shame the powergaming guard squad lacks those 
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Oct 4, 2016 19:22
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ShootaBoy posted:Shame the powergaming guard squad lacks those Any time there's a greater demon around they probably actually DO have a squad of Grey Knights handy. Ideal way to end the campaign really. Squad engages demon, massive fight, obvious they're gonna lose, at the end the Knights sweep in and handle the problem. Inquisitor wanders over and congratulates the team on bringing the demon into the open and keeping it locked down til the kill team arrived. Then they're summarily executed for seeing a Grey Knight ~fin~
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Oct 4, 2016 19:40
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Well, they usually conscript the troopers into the Inquisition's standing forces. People who can survive an encounter with genuine daemons are surprisingly hard to come by, even for the Imperium. and you should let your group play the Grey Gnights squad you jerk
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Oct 4, 2016 19:42
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For something like a Bloodthirster, you're better off running the fight as an extended action sequence. Don't make it a straight fight - give the players smaller objectives suited to their abilities. Get the Grey Knights' teleport homer to the Daemon's location (through otherwise impenetrable warp distortion), kill waves of cultists, pick off the summoners (or sacrifices) before the ritual completes, rig the area with void charges as a backup plan, command the militia conscripts and keep them from panicking, etc. After everything else fails (and the Thirster has eaten the knights,) run it at the players in a weakened state. For a big showpiece battle, cinematic is always going to be more memorable than rolling dice until something dies. Fake edit: I'm all aboard the Genestealer cult hype train and, uh, why aren't they anywhere in the RPG?
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Oct 4, 2016 20:55
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why aren't you running a DH2/Black Crusade hybrid game where your players are genestealer cultists??
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Oct 4, 2016 21:31
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moths posted:
Because GW and by extension the people contracting out from underneath them (barring Relic) haven't given a blue gently caress about anything 'nid related for like, the last decade. I have to imagine that this is GW attempting to give Nids a buddy faction kind of like what Daemons of Chaos is to regular chaos.
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Oct 4, 2016 21:48
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Plus side we get genes genestealer cults up the rear end in the new Deathwing game. In calling chaos showing up at some point unannounced like in Space Marine. Hell, it's the Dark Angels, the Fallen have to show up.
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Oct 4, 2016 21:54
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Werix posted:Plus side we get genes genestealer cults up the rear end in the new Deathwing game. I'm actually surprised that the Deathwing developers have been given some leeway in developing new weapons for the game. I know with Relic's Space Marine game, they were straight up forbidden to have space marines using grenade launchers because it wasn't codex appropriate. So instead they literally had to make it a sticky mine launcher instead and call it a 'planetary prototype' so the GW lore guys would sign off on it.
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Oct 4, 2016 22:05
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There is no game this year I've been more excited for. The only thing even close is shadow warrior 2. Someone should do a PBP one shot Deathwatch game that is all terminators in a space hulk.
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Oct 4, 2016 23:16
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Werix posted:In calling chaos showing up at some point unannounced like in Space Marine. Hell, it's the Dark Angels, the Fallen have to show up. Unless I'm getting my previews confused, there's an intact Heresy-era Dark Angles cruiser aboard the hulk - which seems like it would have been more effective as a surprise / twist. Now I'm looking forward to playing dumb as vioice actors spend the first act hinting around about "an object of great interest" as if I didn't know exactly what they mean... E: DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:why aren't you running a DH2/Black Crusade hybrid game where your players are genestealer cultists?? This is the best idea, and I could probably cobble it together from rules available in DH1 and Black Crusade... moths fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 00:23
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Should run your Bloodthirster fight Shadow of the Colossus-style or bigger. Clamber up the shaggy beast, fighting off waves of bloodthirster lice, as the Bloodthirster dukes it out with a Titan.Werix posted:There is no game this year I've been more excited for. The only thing even close is shadow warrior 2.
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Oct 5, 2016 00:32
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While I don't like the shotgun stormbolter, I am looking forward to bring a big, stompy terminator. Probably the first time I ever got excited for the Dark Angela
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Oct 5, 2016 06:51
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ZearothK posted:Oh yeah, Aptitudes were a lot better than the more constrained careers with limited elite advances, no question about that. For WFRP one advance a session, two at a climax works really well.
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Oct 5, 2016 11:35
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JcDent posted:While I don't like the shotgun stormbolter, I am looking forward to bring a big, stompy terminator. Probably the first time I ever got excited for the Dark Angela I was a little put off by that at first, but when thinking about it more, there are crazy amounts of different bolter ammo, including Metal storm rounds, which do the same thing. I'm also fine with smudging around with lore, especially with guns, to accommodate the fact it is a game, and shotguns are FPS staples.
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Oct 5, 2016 15:15
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LuiCypher posted:irl or do you port a Bloodthirster over from Deathwatch if they 'happen' to encounter a greater daemon? Don't forget the fluff for it's axe explicitly says that it eats your soul.
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Oct 6, 2016 21:50
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I'd like to tally up all my groups home rules and hear about yours. No dodge in melee. Frag grenades can suppress. You can only carry four "hands" of gear and be able to stow it. Heavy weapons are three hands. One pistol and knife free. Accurate and suppression only work if the max un modified damage could hurt. Suppression effects one meter area per rof . Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 22:05
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JcDent posted:While I don't like the shotgun stormbolter, I am looking forward to bring a big, stompy terminator. Probably the first time I ever got excited for the Dark Angela Looking at the trailers. So it's not actually a FPS, i.e. single player. It's a Left for Dead/Vermintide team of 4 style game?
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Oct 6, 2016 22:06
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Jack B Nimble posted:I'd like to tally up all my groups home rules and hear about yours. I like those changes to suppression and carried gear. Might steal it. I do away with aptitudes and have simple costs for everything, like I posted sometime ago in this thread. Also... COMBAT: -All damage is now critical, there are no wounds; -Mooks (anyone without a name) die from any hit that deals damage; -The Accurate weapon bonus adds +1 damage per degree of success after a full action aim; -Attacks that add extra hits instead add +2 to damage for each hit; -Minimum value for a damage die is equal to your degrees of success; Fate may be used for: -Healing 1d5 damage; -Reducing damage taken by 1d5; -Ignoring an effect like Stun or Fear; -Roll an automatic “10” on your initiative for a given combat; -Re-rolling an attempted action; Fate may be burned for: -Surviving a fatal situation; -Achieving the maximum degrees of success in an action, as if you had rolled a 01. FATIGUE AND STAMINA: -Now characters have Stamina equal to the sum of their Toughness and Willpower bonuses; -Characters recover one Stamina for each hour of rest; -Any effects that cause Fatigue now reduce Stamina; -If Stamina is reduced to 0, characters may no longer spend it; -If Stamina is reduced to below zero, characters gain Fatigue, with effects as normal; Stamina may be spent freely to gain extra bonuses: -Increase the damage of a melee attack by 1; -Gain +10 to an action before rolling; -Adding one degree of success to a successful roll; -Gain one extra attack; -Gain one extra reaction; Attacks and Reactions: -Characters now have an Attack and a Reaction stat, dictating how many attacks they can make per turn; -Swift Attack (Tier 2) and Lighting Attack (Tier 3) increase the Attacks rating instead of the previous effect; -Two-Weapon Wielder no longer exists, you can still wield two weapons with Ambidextrous for the sake of versatility; -Step Aside (Tier 2) and Uncanny Defender (Tier 3) increase the Reactions rating. Also a bunch of changes to weapons and talents, but that is in other documents than the "base rules changes" one, so it'd take me a while to parse what's different since we've been tweaking things for about two years now. Also removed the permanent stat damage from critical hits.
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Oct 6, 2016 22:33
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