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Even the mouse droid, the last hunk of metal you'd ever suspect of sentience, is clearly scared of a roaring wookie.
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Oct 5, 2016 14:37
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I said come in! posted:It gets pretty dark when you realize the droid army in the prequels are slaves forced to fight against their will. As is the clone army. The droid control ship is the only person, it just expresses itself through many split personalities in the thousands of battle droid shells it operates, in the same way humans control their digits. Once the Empire started building the death star they realized this big person just needed a gun of their own, screw the tiny extensions. It's really just one big legion-slave. The clone army is given the choice to go off-world and study literature or whatnot at a young age, to weed out the unsuitable warriors. But since they're all little Jangos they all choose to fight because they love it.
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Oct 5, 2016 14:41
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rear end Catchcum posted:Droids are not people. Lucas is a show and tell director. Not an infer director. At no time is the concept of droids being people addressed in the films. This is something I have literally only seen on the something awful forums cine d discussion star wars millennial trash discussion station. The reason its not discussed outside of these forums is because its so incredibly obvious that most people don't waste time discussing it. Its only on internet forums that you can find idiots who will try to argue against it despite literally hundreds of examples in the movies to the contrary that show up about every five minutes. This is a concept that 6 year olds seem to understand pretty easily. There is nothing to infer, the droids are what they are. Its all very clear and right there on the surface, there's no interpretation necessary.
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Oct 5, 2016 14:42
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Electromax posted:The droid control ship is the only person, it just expresses itself through many split personalities in the thousands of battle droid shells it operates, in the same way humans control their digits. Once the Empire started building the death star they realized this big person just needed a gun of their own, screw the tiny extensions. It's really just one big legion-slave. actually clone troopers don't choose to fight, they have no free will.
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Oct 5, 2016 14:59
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Zoran posted:Cnut, what's your take on Obi-Wan hiding Vader's true identity from Luke? I think there's some undeniable moral ambiguity in it, as there is whenever the truth is intentionally withheld or abridged, but his reasons for doing so were very understandable and to say that he's a bad person because of it is going a bit overboard. Also, interestingly, deleted dialogue with Yoda in ROTJ (which was actually filmed) reveals that Obi-Wan actually wanted to tell Luke the truth long ago, but Yoda wouldn't let him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5sQbEklngA This dialogue was cut of course, and we don't know the exact reason, but it certainly adds fuel to the discussion.
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Oct 5, 2016 15:01
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Cnut the Great posted:I think there's some undeniable moral ambiguity in it, as there is whenever the truth is intentionally withheld or abridged, but his reasons for doing so were very understandable and to say that he's a bad person because of it is going a bit overboard. It's kind of interesting because yoda trying to keep the truth away from luke harkens back to the prequels and the folly of the Jedi. In essence Yoda was sorta using Luke as an agent of revenge on the sith (hence the original title of the movie being REVENGE of the Jedi before it was changed). He didn't want Luke to feel compassion for his father and instead wanted him to stay on Dagobah to become more powerful to eventually fight vader to the death and win without even knowing who vader really was.
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Oct 5, 2016 15:47
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Electromax posted:The droid control ship is the only person, it just expresses itself through many split personalities in the thousands of battle droid shells it operates, in the same way humans control their digits. People said this about the Borg too, and yet... 
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Oct 5, 2016 15:55
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Schwarzwald posted:...and I just realized that was a reference to the Garden of Eden. It's also more directly related to the idea of him being like a newborn baby or an innocent child (central motifs of TPM), but of course that's the reason the Garden of Eden myth is the way it is anyway.
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Oct 5, 2016 15:58
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Is the death star a person? Why or why not? Is the Falcon? Han talks to it, so it is. Is Luke's saber training bot a person? What about the helmet he was wearing; what if it was talking to him in his ear and we didn't know?
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Oct 5, 2016 16:09
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rear end Catchcum posted:Is the death star a person? Why or why not? Is the Falcon? Han talks to it, so it is. Do you wanna build a strawmaaaaan
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Oct 5, 2016 16:10
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rear end Catchcum posted:Is the death star a person? Why or why not? Is the Falcon? Han talks to it, so it is. That's not how movies work.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:16
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rear end Catchcum posted:Is the death star a person? Why or why not? Yes, R2 has a conversation with it.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:19
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Basebf555 posted:The reason its not discussed outside of these forums is because its so incredibly obvious that most people don't waste time discussing it. Its only on internet forums that you can find idiots who will try to argue against it despite literally hundreds of examples in the movies to the contrary that show up about every five minutes. This is a concept that 6 year olds seem to understand pretty easily. This is unfortunately the case with a lot of things, like the films taking their aesthetic from classic A-, B-, and Z-grade sci-fi/horror. The vast majority of people don't need to be told that the stylized sets were deliberately stylized, and they consequently don't get really weird ideas about how CGI works. They just say "I don't like old movies" and go on with their lives. Don't let the Internet make you stupid.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:27
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Bongo Bill posted:Is this supposed to be an insult? 5 pages ago but yes.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:30
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Wait so...if droids are people...and we see anakin building threepio...does that mean, like, anakin is god? Vader...father...it all makes sense. God is a whiny teen.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:42
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rear end Catchcum posted:Wait so...if droids are people...and we see anakin building threepio...does that mean, like, anakin is god? Vader...father...it all makes sense. God is a whiny teen. Its hilarious that when you're trying to make sarcastic jokes you actually get a lot closer to the truth.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:47
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rear end Catchcum posted:Wait so...if droids are people...and we see anakin building threepio...does that mean, like, anakin is god? Vader...father...it all makes sense. God is a whiny teen. Yes, that is the basic premise of the films.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:49
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rear end Catchcum posted:Wait so...if droids are people...and we see anakin building threepio...does that mean, like, anakin is god? Vader...father...it all makes sense. God is a whiny teen. We get it. You don't like Star Wars. But you liking Star Wars never had anything to do with it. The contention here is your ability to comprehend basic metaphor, which you sabotage yourself from having because you consider whether you value that particular metaphor personally paramount. But nobody gives a poo poo about you.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:51
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Even Tezzor understands this.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:52
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Remember that the moral climax of Return of the Jedi comes when Luke learns to not only empathize with the machine-like man who is his father Anakin Skywalker, but also to empathize with the man-like machine who is the hateful villain Darth Vader. George Lucas posted:Star Wars is made up of many themes. It's not just one little simple parable. One is our relationship to machines, which are fearful, but also benign. http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,23298-2,00.html So obviously, when Anakin finally achieves balance within himself in ROTJ, it isn't because he rejects the technological part of himself as being completely evil. Not only does that contradict what the movies themselves tell us about technology and about machines, it also explicitly contradicts the creator's stated philosophy. I can't find it right now, but I recall Lucas actually points out on one of the DVD commentaries that there's a misconception that the Star Wars movies are anti-technology, which he says is nonsensical given the integral role technology played in making the films themselves possible. The idea is basically just that you want to retain the human element somewhere, whatever that means. You don't want to end up with "machines making machines." And the most explicit mouthpiece of that viewpoint in the films is of course C-3PO, the most human-like machine in the series. All this commentary of course ended up in the film completely by accident while Lucas was busy sitting in a chair staring at an evil, evil television monitor with no soul.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:54
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Basebf555 posted:Even Tezzor understands this. Tezzor understands many things about film. It comes out in the more straightforward posts. It's just really too bad that the understanding is a sideshow for the moebius bilestrip of prequel hatred.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:55
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People sarcastically understanding Star Wars is my new favorite thing.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:55
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I even think some of the blasters may be people tbh.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:58
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Anakin being god though is a really really dumb thing tbh
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Oct 5, 2016 16:59
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Phi230 posted:Anakin being god though is a really really dumb thing tbh Dude's already Jesus, it fits.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:01
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rear end Catchcum posted:Droids are not people. Lucas is a show and tell director. Not an infer director. At no time is the concept of droids being people addressed in the films. This is something I have literally only seen on the something awful forums cine d discussion star wars millennial trash discussion station. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUy1z-mnoIU
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Oct 5, 2016 17:09
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Phi230 posted:Anakin being god though is a really really dumb thing tbh He's a demigod, like many, many mythological heroes throughout history. Why is it dumb in Star Wars but not dumb in the Iliad and the Odyssey? I just don't get it. They're all the same kind of epic, mythological story being told. God has been a major character in the Star Wars story from the very get-go, so it's not like elements like these just came completely out of left field or something. edit: Yeah I'm using the term "demigod" loosely. A lot of mythological heroes were simply closely descended from demigods and weren't strictly demigods themselves (much like Luke!), but it's basically the same idea, or at least serves the same narrative purpose. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 17:18
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There was even a prophecy about Anakin. Visions of the future, in the films, are cloudy and visual/emotional, while the prophecy was a clearly-worded statement, a classic "oracular gotcha" formula.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:29
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If a hydrospanner identifies as trans-droid does it get its own bathroom?
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Oct 5, 2016 17:45
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High Lord Elbow posted:If a hydrospanner identifies as trans-droid does it get its own bathroom? Your clumsy transphobic joke makes no sense 
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Oct 5, 2016 17:48
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rear end Catchcum posted:Wait so...if droids are people...and we see anakin building threepio...does that mean, like, anakin is god? Vader...father...it all makes sense. God is a whiny teen. "God hates droids." - a not wrong space fundie quote:Tezzor understands many things about film. It comes out in the more straightforward posts. It's just really too bad that the understanding is a sideshow for the moebius bilestrip of prequel hatred. Tezzor Still Right, Still Insane
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Oct 5, 2016 17:49
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So apparently the hip new conspiracy theory is that Disney is paying people on the Internet to write articles defending the prequels and that's why they're undergoing kind of a critical re-evaluation? Makes sense to me.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:05
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Cnut the Great posted:So apparently the hip new conspiracy theory is that Disney is paying people on the Internet to write articles defending the prequels and that's why they're undergoing kind of a critical re-evaluation? Makes sense to me. Why do I never get in on this action? I want some sweet bribe money! 
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Oct 5, 2016 18:09
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Cnut the Great posted:So apparently the hip new conspiracy theory is that Disney is paying people on the Internet to write articles defending the prequels and that's why they're undergoing kind of a critical re-evaluation? Makes sense to me. Why do I get the feeling that this was just a joke in the new Plinkett review, but dumb fanboys are gonna take it seriously?
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Oct 5, 2016 18:13
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"Cinema Discusso goons are mentally ill idiots." -- a guy who hates a trilogy of highly-successful space fantasy movies so much the only plausible explanation he can conjure up for them getting even the slightest amount of positive attention is a corporate conspiracy
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Oct 5, 2016 18:16
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Cnut the Great posted:So apparently the hip new conspiracy theory is that Disney is paying people on the Internet to write articles defending the prequels and that's why they're undergoing kind of a critical re-evaluation? Makes sense to me. Zoran posted:Why do I never get in on this action? I want some sweet bribe money! same. Disney should make their own separate prequel trilogy after the sequel trilogy. I want to see the arguments it would cause.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:17
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Spacebump posted:Disney should make their own separate prequel trilogy after the sequel trilogy. I want to see the arguments it would cause. I'm totally on board with this. Love them or hate them, if you don't think the prequels should have been several orders of magnitude better for the money and talent poured into them , you need your head checked.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:25
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High Lord Elbow posted:I'm totally on board with this. Love them or hate them, if you don't think the prequels should have been several orders of magnitude better for the money and talent poured into them , you need your head checked. Tell us about this "better" that you are imagining. They were incredibly innovative and created a much more complex scenario than MANS IN COOL ARMOR DO LASERS! PEW!
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Oct 5, 2016 18:27
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homullus posted:Tell us about this "better" that you are imagining. They were incredibly innovative and created a much more complex scenario than MANS IN COOL ARMOR DO LASERS! PEW! It would have Anakin as a knight in shining armor who becomes Vader after evil space magic invades his brain.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:32
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Martman posted:Luke talks to R2 just like he talks to other characters. At the very least this introduces us to the idea that Luke personally might see R2 as a person. Is there something in the movies that contradicts this? [technicians haul R2's burned body out of Luke's X-Wing] C-3PO: Oh Jesus, please save him, I'll donate my body Technicians: We'll get to work on him 3PO: Master Luke- Luke: [Walking off to get loaded] He'll be fine
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Oct 5, 2016 18:33
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