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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Mad? I'm not mad, I'm just not going to reward them with what they want from me, just like I'm not going to reward Mrs. Clinton, who I absolutely do not hate, with what she wants from me either. lmao Voting third party is the ultimate cop out. You get the same level of ineffectiveness as not voting but you get to be smug about it. Please tell me which of the two third party candidates is not terrible? Is it Jill "I have no convictions so I pander to anti-vaxx nutjobs, also Putin is a good guy" Stein, or Gary "Privatize everything, I'm not actually a republican I promise" Johnson.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:36
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BiohazrD posted:lmao So you're saying you're okay with the mediocre nonchoice presented by the two-party system and happily denigrate anyone who desires a better option. Amazing.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:39
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TomViolence posted:So you're saying you're okay with the mediocre nonchoice presented by the two-party system and happily denigrate anyone who desires a better option. Amazing. This point would work better if the best choice weren't Hillary Clinton
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Oct 5, 2016 23:41
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BiohazrD posted:This point would work better if the best choice weren't Hillary Clinton The best choice is shooting yourself. The lesser evil is Hillary Clinton.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:42
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TomViolence posted:It's a bad day for everyone the day you're getting dunked on by horselord. Good job America. HorseLord isn't dunking on anyone tho. America is bad because their military actions kill people! Assad is fine, actually it's his right to ethnically cleanse his nation 
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Oct 5, 2016 23:44
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Rygar201 posted:HorseLord isn't dunking on anyone tho. here's what i actually said HorseLord posted:what i like about this thread is how it confirmed my long term suspicions that the democrats are a neocon party now
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Oct 5, 2016 23:46
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you would think that if neocons genuinely were doing all their wars out of a genuine desire to make life better for people, they'd notice that every attempt they've made has made things worse rather than better, and stop
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Oct 5, 2016 23:48
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that'd require sincerity and self reflection though
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Oct 5, 2016 23:48
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Look, as americans, we can't do anything about the abuses of our own government. We're just in no position to do anything about it so why even bother talking about it. However what we *can* do is save brown people from the oppression of their own government by unconditionally supporting our military's invasion of their country.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:51
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All I'm getting out of this is that horselord lusts for death, otherwise he wouldn't be so eager to carry water for Qaddafi and Assad.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:58
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Rygar201 posted:All I'm getting out of this is that horselord lusts for death, otherwise he wouldn't be so eager to carry water for Qaddafi and Assad. the one lusting for death is the one who defends and advocates wars that cause more deaths to happen than if there wasnt a war
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Oct 5, 2016 23:59
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Don't vote, please.
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Oct 6, 2016 00:06
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HorseLord posted:the one lusting for death is the one who defends and advocates wars that cause more deaths to happen than if there wasnt a war So you're explicitly pro intra state ethnic cleansing?
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Oct 6, 2016 00:08
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Rygar201 posted:So you're explicitly pro intra state ethnic cleansing? We had to destroy the village to save the village. Also, we had to float the idea of looting the village's oil reserves to pay for the process. There Was No Ethical Alternative.
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Oct 6, 2016 00:14
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I want a dyke for president. I want a person with aids for president and I want a fag for vice president and I want someone with no health insurance and I want someone who grew up in a place where the earth is so saturated with toxic waste that they didn’t have a choice about getting leukemia. I want a president that had an abortion at sixteen and I want a candidate who isn’t the lesser of two evils and I want a president who lost their last lover to aids, who still sees that in their eyes every time they lay down to rest, who held their lover in their arms and knew they were dying. I want a president with no airconditioning, a president who has stood on line at the clinic, at the dmv, at the welfare office and has been unemployed and layed off and sexually harrassed and gay-bashed and deported. I want someone who has spent the night in the tombs and had a cross burned on their lawn and survived rape. I want someone who has been in love and been hurt, who respects sex, who has made mistakes and learned from them. I want a black woman for president. I want someone with bad teeth and an attitude, someone who has eaten that nasty hospital food, someone who crossdresses and has done drugs and been in therapy. I want someone who has committed civil disobedience. And I want to know why this isn’t possible. I want to know why we started learning somewhere down the line that a president is always a clown: always a john and never a hooker. Always a boss and never a worker, always a liar, always a thief and never caught.
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Oct 6, 2016 00:17
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I have a question for the pro-Hillary crowd: What would it take for you to change your mind about supporting her? Like, if it was fully proven that she was involved in rigging the primary, would that be enough? Or would you just handwave it away, saying "but LBJ did it, it isn't a big deal". I have seen an awful lot of "but this person did it too, and they were much worse" in response to any criticism of her.
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Oct 6, 2016 00:18
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BiohazrD posted:lmao That's fun. Give Trump and Clinton some fun air quote middle names too, please. That's a great way for grown ups to talk about politics. Can the Clinton one be about "bringing superpredators to heel?" Because she said that once and a thing someone said once is immortalized in the digital age, no take backs, even if your views evolve! Anyway, not voting third party is being complicit with accepting two terrible choices and the lovely status quo so I don't know what to tell you, agree to disagree I guess. The topic is "what's the deal with people who hate Hillary Clinton" and I've said my piece about it. I guess one could say I hate her, if one likes making wild tangential accusations which would probably get a one a good campaign job these days? The Record must be Corrected.
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Oct 6, 2016 00:20
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J Corp posted:I have a question for the pro-Hillary crowd: "What if all my paranoid delusions were true, huh?! What then?!?!"
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Oct 6, 2016 00:21
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BiohazrD posted:lmao Neither, there's a better way!  Jeb!
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Oct 6, 2016 00:26
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J Corp posted:I have a question for the pro-Hillary crowd: If Hillary reneged on her promise to castrate every man in the United States and turn it into some sort of reverse Gor matriarchy I'd drop my support in a second.
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Oct 6, 2016 00:26
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Lemming posted:"What if all my paranoid delusions were true, huh?! What then?!?!" I'm not implying she did, I'm just asking if there is literally anything that could get you to change your opinion of her from perfect. Because when people bring up that she is fully committed to continuing to drop bombs on whoever happens to be under the drone at the moment, the response is "BUT OBAMA/BUSH" instead of "Yeah, that's a pretty lovely thing about her"
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Oct 6, 2016 00:28
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America is great and brings freedom and democracy to the world. Corruption in government and abuses of power and rigged elections can only happen in places that are not America, and it's laughable to imply that they could be true here. America is exceptional because it is the best. We need to have faith and trust in our great leaders who have the same last name as the previous great leaders, because they know what is best for us and they tell us the truth. Support are troops. Iraq had WMDs. The russians are out to get us. I am very progressive liberal person.
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Oct 6, 2016 00:29
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Bob le Moche posted:America is great and brings freedom and democracy to the world. Corruption in government and abuses of power and rigged elections can only happen in places that are not America, and it's laughable to imply that they could be true here. America is exceptional because it is the best. We need to have faith and trust in our great leaders who have the same last name as the previous great leaders, because they know what is best for us and they tell us the truth. Support are troops. Iraq had WMDs. The russians are out to get us. I am very progressive liberal person. The choice is obvious for True Liberals, Clinton 2016! Hillary never stopped, will not stop, cannot stop fighting for us. Fighting for American Freedom, actually. With drones.
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Oct 6, 2016 00:48
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J Corp posted:I'm not implying she did, I'm just asking if there is literally anything that could get you to change your opinion of her from perfect. Because when people bring up that she is fully committed to continuing to drop bombs on whoever happens to be under the drone at the moment, the response is "BUT OBAMA/BUSH" instead of "Yeah, that's a pretty lovely thing about her" Nobody thinks she's perfect.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:08
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No see if the candidate is literally not 100% perfect you're accepting the terrible status quo. That's why they are voting for noted perfect candidate.....uhhhhh, who again? Thanks for the title, but it's spelled "content". This thread is the best 30 TO 50 FERAL HOG fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 01:18
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This year is the year that should prompt some soul-searching at least. Hillary "isn't perfect" and maybe folk should start wondering why things "aren't perfect." You know, rather than complacently continuing the same old patterns of thought thinking that somehow by electing the same shitbags over and over again that HOPE and CHANGE are coming because your president is black or female now, nevermind that it's just white power with a black face or patriarchy with a uterus.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:28
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TomViolence posted:This year is the year that should prompt some soul-searching at least. Hillary "isn't perfect" and maybe folk should start wondering why things "aren't perfect." You know, rather than complacently continuing the same old patterns of thought thinking that somehow by electing the same shitbags over and over again that HOPE and CHANGE are coming because your president is black or female now, nevermind that it's just white power with a black face or patriarchy with a uterus. The Republicans are the ones who have been holding back progress for a long time. The Democrats are running on the most progressive platform they've pretty much ever had this year, and have been making slow, yet consistent progress. You don't understand the reasons why things are happening the way they are so you reflexively lash out and assume everyone is equally bad, when that's simply not true.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:31
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Just going to sit here waiting for the perfect candidate, surely 30% of the country won't burn everything down in the meantime.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:33
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TomViolence posted:This year is the year that should prompt some soul-searching at least. Hillary "isn't perfect" and maybe folk should start wondering why things "aren't perfect." You know, rather than complacently continuing the same old patterns of thought thinking that somehow by electing the same shitbags over and over again that HOPE and CHANGE are coming because your president is black or female now, nevermind that it's just white power with a black face or patriarchy with a uterus. What candidate of any party currently running is better than Hillary though? Imagine ever party was equally likely to win, who is the better choice?
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Oct 6, 2016 01:36
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Lemming posted:The Republicans are the ones who have been holding back progress for a long time. The Democrats are running on the most progressive platform they've pretty much ever had this year, and have been making slow, yet consistent progress. You don't understand the reasons why things are happening the way they are so you reflexively lash out and assume everyone is equally bad, when that's simply not true. I never said they're equally bad. My whole schtick till now has been that lesser evil is still evil. I recognise that there are degrees of terrible and that's a spectrum I still see Barry and Hillary on, justifiably too as US politics does not encompass the entire spectrum of political thought and whatever reform is going on there is pitifully slow. People (abroad) dislike Hillary because she is manifestly onboard with the way US politics and policy have been for the past decade or so and whatever the left is in America it's not left enough for anyone outside of that to take seriously as a contender against the established status quo and the economic and foreign policy it bludgeons and mutilates the rest of the world with. Mel Mudkiper posted:What candidate of any party currently running is better than Hillary though? That there might not be a better candidate is damning enough. Even if Hillary was the best candidate, why would that absolve her? TomViolence fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 01:37
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The whole loving point of your vote is that you dangle it in front of the politicians and make them think that they might not get it if they don't try harder to please you. That's how you have any power over them, and that's how you get them to do things that benefit society. You don't owe politicians anything. You people really suck at this democracy thing.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:40
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All the candidates are bad *because* everyone just keeps voting for the lesser evil. They have no incentive to be anything else. How is this not super obvious to everyone???
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Oct 6, 2016 01:42
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Bob le Moche posted:The whole loving point of your vote is that you dangle it in front of the politicians and make them think that they might not get it if they don't try harder to please you. That's how you have any power over them, and that's how you get them to do things that benefit society. You don't owe politicians anything. You people really suck at this democracy thing. I like this post because I can't tell if it is for or against strategic voting, hah ^oh, no. Turns out that you're a moron. Never mind.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:42
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TomViolence posted:That there might not be a better candidate is damning enough. Even if Hillary was the best candidate, why would that absolve her? Because nations are fundamentally unethical institutions and there is no realistic way to dissolve the nation as primary political state of the modern world so the only choice is to pick the best option provided. I don't think it absolves anyone of anything, but realistically geopolitics do not allow for moral action
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Oct 6, 2016 01:43
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TomViolence posted:I never said they're equally bad. My whole schtick till now has been that lesser evil is still evil. I recognise that there are degrees of terrible and that's a spectrum I still see Barry and Hillary on, justifiably too as US politics does not encompass the entire spectrum of political thought and whatever reform is going on there is pitifully slow. People (abroad) dislike Hillary because she is manifestly onboard with the way US politics and policy have been for the past decade or so and whatever the left is in America it's not left enough for anyone outside of that to take seriously as a contender against the established status quo and the economic and foreign policy it bludgeons and mutilates the rest of the world with. Yeah, you did quote:complacently continuing the same old patterns of thought thinking that somehow by electing the same shitbags over and over again that HOPE and CHANGE are coming because your president is black or female now This is you clearly insinuating that Democrats represent the status quo when they don't. The status quo exists because Democrats have been largely fighting for progress and Republicans have been fighting for regress, and they've been roughly equally supported for a long time. The fix to this is to work within the system we have to improve it, where it is possible to improve things, vs whining that nobody is as good as you want them to be and acting like everyone is the same, which is what you're doing. I completely agree there are things that Democrats need to do better on. The best way to push for change there is to get them into power so they can be pushed leftwards in primaries, like with Bernie, which gets more progressive candidates into power. loving off and going third party as an alternative gives more relative power to Republican politicians, which makes progress harder.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:43
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TomViolence posted:It's a bit slippery and intangible I'll admit, but it leaves a definite bad taste in the mouth that she's been a regular fixture in the Business As Usual for a good decade at least, because as a result she must necessarily have been a part of the banal evil of American policy for so long. Admittedly, Bernie has been in politics maybe for longer than her, but he's always been a peripheral figure on the fringes. Hillary is bad because she seems entirely happy to work within a completely broken system. I wouldn't say she's happy to work within the system, but she's been fighting the system far too long to think she can change it, and she believes she can make more of a difference working within the system to influence it in a more humane direction than she can sitting outside the system complaining about it. You might as well say that she supports sexism because she's experienced it for decades and has yet to issue a blanket ban on sexism: having faced it firsthand, she knows better than to think she can personally end sexism forever, and instead focuses her energies on pushing pro-women policy. CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Mad? I'm not mad, I'm just not going to reward them with what they want from me, just like I'm not going to reward Mrs. Clinton, who I absolutely do not hate, with what she wants from me either. But what are you punishing her and the DNC for? What misconduct did they commit? You said you hate Hillary because the DNC did bad things. What bad things did they do? TomViolence posted:This year is the year that should prompt some soul-searching at least. Hillary "isn't perfect" and maybe folk should start wondering why things "aren't perfect." You know, rather than complacently continuing the same old patterns of thought thinking that somehow by electing the same shitbags over and over again that HOPE and CHANGE are coming because your president is black or female now, nevermind that it's just white power with a black face or patriarchy with a uterus. Things aren't perfect because progressives think political involvement is for chumps and suckers, so half of them only show up at the polls on prez election years to make a protest vote at the very top of the ticket, and the other half sit at home and bitch about how bad politics is while they whine about how a national-scale progressive movement isn't springing up out of thin air.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:44
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Bob le Moche posted:The whole loving point of your vote is that you dangle it in front of the politicians and make them think that they might not get it if they don't try harder to please you. That's how you have any power over them, and that's how you get them to do things that benefit society. You don't owe politicians anything. You people really suck at this democracy thing. Yeah, this is the attitude that makes Democrats lose elections. You realize that Republican voters are 100% unquestioningly onboard with Donald loving Trump, right? And Democrats have a more diverse opinion on various issues, which means if everybody acted like you, it would be literally impossible to satisfy all of them, and then the Republicans win by default? Primaries are the best place to fight for progress. Risking letting a Republican win a general election is the worst place to fight for progress.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:48
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I love Bernie and now that he's out I love Hillary. I know people are having difficulties with having a woman run for office but it wasn't so bad when that black guy ran right? That libertarian guy is literally an idiot and if you like Stein then get away from my kids you anti vax crazy person. Also I really wish liberals got this passionate about their local elections but welp.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:49
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BiohazrD posted:No see if the candidate is literally not 100% perfect you're accepting the terrible status quo. That's why they are voting for noted perfect candidate.....uhhhhh, who again? Hillary is an imperialist hawk. A century ago, she would have been riding sidesaddle into Cuba with Roosevelt. If you're so amoral as to pull the lever for her because "at least she's not _______" then at least take ownership of her history of hosed up foreign and domestic policies instead of acting like some parsimonious protestant picking and choosing which passages matter and which can be glossed over. Nobody has a gun to your head. You can stay home or you can deliberately spoil your ballot. Your vote is an endorsement.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:50
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Lemming posted:This is you clearly insinuating that Democrats represent the status quo when they don't. The status quo exists because Democrats have been largely fighting for progress and Republicans have been fighting for regress, and they've been roughly equally supported for a long time. The fix to this is to work within the system we have to improve it, where it is possible to improve things, vs whining that nobody is as good as you want them to be and acting like everyone is the same, which is what you're doing. Sorry but the Democratic Party has not been fighting for progress. Social movements have been fighting for progress and pressuring the Democrats into giving away concessions. Again, don't get your democracy backwards.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:52
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