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I'm shocked they only did one episode of Flashpoint, but I can understand not wanting to spend several episodes in an alternate timeline where poo poo doesn't matter. This was the best episode yet for non-Wells RF, though. Stunt Rock fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 13:51
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Stunt Rock posted:I'm shocked they only did one episode of Flashpoint, but I can understand not wanting to spend several episodes in an alternate timeline where poo poo doesn't matter. Unlike the regular timeline where poo poo always.... Nevermind.
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Oct 5, 2016 14:41
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greatn posted:Flash needs to go to a timeline where he played Chrono Trigger as a kid. He can make time duplicates so if he really wants to save his mom without changing the timeline there ya go. Seriously, Barry goes back in time a week before his mom dies, grabs her, does the time rodeo and makes a chronal remnant of her, leaves it at home and puts mom up in a hotel for a week. Once Thawne kills the remnant his mom can go back to her life.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:45
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The Barry who did that can't exist without suffering the tragedy of his mother's murder as a child. Time doesn't just say "Oh, a Barry's mom died. Whatever."
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Oct 5, 2016 16:47
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Aphrodite posted:The Barry who did that can't exist without suffering the tragedy of his mother's murder as a child. Fine! He can bring one of them to the present so he still has the trauma and also a living mother! For how often one of Barry's loved ones dies he should have a whole room full of time remnants.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:54
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teamcharlie posted:Uh, wait. Thawne went back into the past and successfully killed Barry's mom, but now he's got perfectly functional speed powers. Then who the gently caress trained the Flash? This. As far as I can tell things should be way more broken.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:58
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Do not believe Reverse Flash when he says the Barry he knows from the future is not as stupid as Barry is now, or that he is powered by some unexplainable Speed Force. The man is a villain and a liar. Being stupid is what makes Barry go fast.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:02
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Rhyno posted:Seriously, Barry goes back in time a week before his mom dies, grabs her, does the time rodeo and makes a chronal remnant of her, leaves it at home and puts mom up in a hotel for a week. Once Thawne kills the remnant his mom can go back to her life. Well no, he'd have to bring his real mom to the present to avoid changing the timeline.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:13
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Inkspot posted:Being stupid is what makes Barry go fast. So the faster he goes the more stupid he becomes? Checks out. Yeah this episode was a bit of a mess but mostly because they had to shove so much stuff into it. I really, really loved seeing Wally as Kid Flash and Iris being his confidant. I'm kind of bummed that this part was over so quickly. For some reason The Flash is the only CW hero show that I'm ok with a lot of the dumbness of the romance for some reason. I *do* want to see Barry and Iris get together and it's frustrating the level of idiocy that works against them but at least it's not as bad as the absolute shitshow of Arrow. I'd rather all the characters on that show simply die of a giant meteor hitting their city at this point.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:16
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Barry's powers growing stronger after a pep talk count: 1
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Oct 5, 2016 17:22
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Thawne will never make sense anymore. Don't worry about it.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:31
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I really want to find that image I saw of "The Flash, Season 10" that just has like fifty Barrys racing around the Allen living room, because it seems appropriate. This was basically an entire episode caused and perpetuated by people being unbelievably stupid. Barry changing the timeline was stupid, Wally turning his back on his super-fast enemy was double-stupid, Barry doing the exact same thing even after he saw Wally get got was triple stupid. Oh, and Wally can't heal, because reasons, which is also stupid. But that's plot-stupid, not character-stupid. Welcome back to the Flash everybody! 
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Oct 5, 2016 17:54
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"He should be healing. But he's not. Okay bye" was pretty incredible.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:55
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I for sure thought they were going to go the route of "Barry is the one who generates the Speed Force, so without him being Flash there is nothing to give Thawne speed" in the first season. And it was going to turn out that Thawne became Wells to ensure that Barry became the Flash (because maybe the timeline had been altered to such an extent that he otherwise didn't become the Flash). But it turns out that Thawne losing his powers was just some super weird coincidence? And that he just needed Barry to be fast enough to give his failing powers a boost to travel back to his time where he would...get better? Then of course there's all the weird stuff about the Thawne time remnant, which I think is obsolete now because Barry removed the Thawne that murdered his mother from the timeline post-murdering his mother. So wait was Wells ever Thawne in this timeline? Is Eddie still alive? 
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Oct 5, 2016 17:58
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howe_sam posted:Y'know, that was a profoundly hosed up thing Thawne made Barry do. He should've refused and made Barry do it. Step up your villain game Thawne. HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:He was also Caesar in the last season of Spartacus. I know how Barry can defeat him 
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Oct 5, 2016 17:58
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At this point I think I would've preferred Flashpoint. Just loving run with it. Wally and Iris are a brother-sister crimefighting team, aided by Iris's nerdy CSI boyfriend Barry, tech billionaire Cisco Ramon, and Caitlin Snow, Wally's eye doctor. In place of dumb romantic drama, we get West family drama as Wally and Iris try to deal with whatever crawled up Joe's butt. Harrison Wells is Ramon Industries' mysterious janitor who may or may not be a figment of Wally's imagination.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:05
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:I *do* want to see Barry and Iris get together and it's frustrating the level of idiocy that works against them but at least it's not as bad as the absolute shitshow of Arrow. I'd rather all the characters on that show simply die of a giant meteor hitting their city at this point. Going by the first few seasons Ollie lets his city get decimated by something every finale so it's probably only a matter of time until that happens. Guy A. Person posted:Then of course there's all the weird stuff about the Thawne time remnant, which I think is obsolete now because Barry removed the Thawne that murdered his mother from the timeline post-murdering his mother. So wait was Wells ever Thawne in this timeline? Is Eddie still alive? I haven't watched the episode, but did watch a few clips to see if it piqued my interest and Iris doesn't know Barry. Despite the fact that change is that Barry's mom didn't die. And yet according to the Prime timeline Iris and Barry were friends as a kid and basically lived next door till Thawne killed Barry's mom. So shouldn't Iris at least recognise Barry enough to go "oh, that guy I knew as a kid?"
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Oct 5, 2016 18:20
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tsob posted:I haven't watched the episode, but did watch a few clips to see if it piqued my interest and Iris doesn't know Barry. Despite the fact that change is that Barry's mom didn't die. And yet according to the Prime timeline Iris and Barry were friends as a kid and basically lived next door till Thawne killed Barry's mom. So shouldn't Iris at least recognise Barry enough to go "oh, that guy I knew as a kid?" This is basically exactly what happened. Iris is like "you look familiar" and Barry says they went to school together and they reminisce about some class they were in.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:29
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So why weren't Time Wraiths hunting Barry down after he changed poo poo?
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Oct 5, 2016 18:34
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Time wraiths are for time traveling, not alternate timelines. Barry only traveled for about 2 minutes, then went back. Alternate timelines are Booster Gold's job, and he blew it.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:40
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Grem posted:Is Barry trying to find a timeline where he's not a complete idiot or what? 
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Oct 5, 2016 19:13
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"Welp, I finished watching The Flash premiere. I should start reading the new TV/IV thread and catch up!" *Several pages later...*  ANYWAY, I'll have to echo the sentiments of some here and say I felt underwhelmed by the premiere. I felt like after the slide this show took last season that we really needed a home run start and I don't think this was it. I'm not saying it was all mediocre, the Cisco stuff and kidnapping gag in particular were great. About time that the writers poked some tongue-in-cheek fun at themselves and the "heroes" doing shady poo poo, since this Barry Allen definitely does pretty much technically kidnap people quite often. I'm not too bothered by most of their version of Flashpoint being one-and-done, as it might've just created more issues than solved (though there seems to be more to come), and them setting it up at the end of last season seemed like a possibly bad idea that was biting off more than it could chew. I'm not even bothered by the ridiculous (even by time-travel fiction standards) absence of consistent time travel rules in their universe because...well, gently caress it at this point as long as it's good. I think what bothers me the most is that Barry is all too often a selfish nincompoop. Even without the mass murdering and indefinite detention issues we joke about. I'm still hopeful this will be a better, more consistent season than the last, but this wasn't the start I was hoping for. By the way, after watching the S1 and 2 gag reels back to back, I strongly feel that the permanent thread title should be "gently caress me with a spoon twice daily." Holy poo poo this was great, but the head bobbing thing alone may have permanently ruined this show for me.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:11
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Spergatory posted:I really want to find that image I saw of "The Flash, Season 10" that just has like fifty Barrys racing around the Allen living room, because it seems appropriate. How many Barrys are we up to now? Barry A is kid Barry who is always there. Then Barry B came back in time and fought RF, and almost saved his mom but was then dissuaded by Barry C and instead just grabbed Barry A and got him out of the house. That's the course of events that is presented to us in the pilot, three Barrys. But we've also got Barry D who came back and stopped RF from killing his mom after Barry B took A out of the house and Barry C left thinking his job was done because he successfully dissuaded Barry B with a solemn head shake. And there's Barry E, who let RF out of the cage so he could go back and murder his mom. Barry E was carried into the past by RF, and it's not clear where he was during the murder, but let's assume RF left him on the porch. So there were five different Barrys at the house when his mom was killed.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:22
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Guy Goodbody posted:How many Barrys are we up to now? Barry A is kid Barry who is always there. Then Barry B came back in time and fought RF, and almost saved his mom but was then dissuaded by Barry C and instead just grabbed Barry A and got him out of the house. Actually, I believe Barry B, after fighting RF, dissuaded Barry C, who was hiding behind a door, with the solemn head shake before carrying A out. Then Barry D shows up, saves mom, Barry C vanishes, and D runs back to the future to start this season. Then E shows up with RF, D is now stopped from saving mom, mom is killed, and D vanishes instead of running back to the future to begin this season.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:01
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Murphys Law posted:Actually, I believe Barry B, after fighting RF, dissuaded Barry C, who was hiding behind a door, with the solemn head shake before carrying A out. Then Barry D shows up, saves mom, Barry C vanishes, and D runs back to the future to start this season. Then E shows up with RF, D is now stopped from saving mom, mom is killed, and D vanishes instead of running back to the future to begin this season. Oh poo poo, you're right, I had C and B mixed up.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:06
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Guy Goodbody posted:Oh poo poo, you're right, I had C and B mixed up. Understandable. There are a lot of Barrys in the house.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:07
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Barry F should go back with a camcorder so he can watch it whenever he wants instead of always time traveling.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:10
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Murphys Law posted:Actually, I believe Barry B, after fighting RF, dissuaded Barry C, who was hiding behind a door, with the solemn head shake before carrying A out. Then Barry D shows up, saves mom, Barry C vanishes, and D runs back to the future to start this season. Then E shows up with RF, D is now stopped from saving mom, mom is killed, and D vanishes instead of running back to the future to begin this season. That is a large amount of Barry.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:01
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Alexeythegreat posted:That is a large amount of Barry. A bevy of Barrys.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:06
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Murphys Law posted:Actually, I believe Barry B, after fighting RF, dissuaded Barry C, who was hiding behind a door, with the solemn head shake before carrying A out. Then Barry D shows up, saves mom, Barry C vanishes, and D runs back to the future to start this season. Then E shows up with RF, D is now stopped from saving mom, mom is killed, and D vanishes instead of running back to the future to begin this season. I couldn't stop laughing when Flashpoint-Thawne showed up with another goddamn knife at the end. Imagining how confused Nora Allen is has become loving hilarious. Hopefully, Barry will re-Flashpoint time, then un-Flashpoint it a few more times, then pile on some crazy alternate Earth poo poo, so Nora sees Barry kill Reverse-Flash, then another RF kills Barry, then a third RF kills the second one, kisses Nora, and is then vibro-handed by Jay Garrick-as-Henry, who tag-team stabs Nora alongside eyepatch-Barry, before a time-traveling Gorilla Grodd drags her wounded body to the top of a skyscraper. "Last season, on THE FLASH!"
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Oct 5, 2016 22:35
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teamcharlie posted:Uh, wait. Thawne went back into the past and successfully killed Barry's mom, but now he's got perfectly functional speed powers. Then who the gently caress trained the Flash? Essentially Thawne can leave behind a time remnant that goes on to become Wellsobard, while he drops Barry off in the altered post-s2 timeline and then gets to keep existing as a paradox separate from the natural flow of time. Barry pretty much hosed up so badly that Eddie's sacrifice was in vain, because now a new Eobard Thawne created as a result of Barry's Flashpoint is now around.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:37
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I think, at this point, enjoying this show will be a matter of...setting the right expectations. Looking back I can objectively see all sorts of problems with this premiere, especially with the KILL NORA bingo board crossing absurd thresholds...but I never expected this Flashpoint thing to be that big a deal in the first place so I wasn't surprised to see just another obligatory alternate universe episode.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:45
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It's kinda dumb that Thawne called the new alternate timeline Flashpoint.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:46
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I actually enjoyed the Rival a lot more in that one episode than I did Zoom in every episode of season two he was in, even if he did look like Shadow the Hedgehog.  Thought it was an improvement on the last season. Disappointed it wasn't two parts - would have been fun to see what some of the other characters were doing in Flashpoint, even if it was just mentions of "Mayor Snart" or Robert Queen being Green Arrow like in the Earth-2 episodes last season. I think if it's at this standard for the whole season I will at least be satisfied with it.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:03
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Amendment to what I'd said earlier: in theory, regular-rear end OG Harrison Wells could just be Barry's best friend, maybe with some really quickly scribbled notes from Thawne to make sure real-Wells can actually get the accelerator online at the right time and to fail in the right way (as I recall, the accelerator explosion wouldn't have happened for at least a few years yet in the original timeline). On the plus side, the could be accompanied by an awesome montage of time-traveling Thawne pranking Barry throughout Barry's life while making sure everything works out to make Barry eventually become the Flash. Stealing Barry's clothes from his gym locker, making GBS threads in his desk, roofie-ing Barry the night he would have otherwise lost his virginity, etc.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:33
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tsob posted:Going by the first few seasons Ollie lets his city get decimated by something every finale so it's probably only a matter of time until that happens. Ollie's city is so loving stupid that no one noticed the enormous construction of an entire underground city happening, including the obviously needed power plant, exhaust ports, etc. Also there is a cavern full of super-assassins that apparently is a 15 minute bus ride outside the city limits.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:52
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:So why weren't Time Wraiths hunting Barry down after he changed poo poo? They are on vacation.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:53
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I want Barry and Thawne to be friends. They really have no reason to hate each other if they would just stop going back in time and saying they hate each other over and over.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:44
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Ollie's city is so loving stupid that no one noticed the enormous construction of an entire underground city happening, including the obviously needed power plant, exhaust ports, etc. Eh, it was more like a large, ritzy neighborhood.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:50
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I think my favorite part was opening the episode with "Previously on The Flash" and showing Barry coming to his decision to travel back, then doing so and saving Nora. Then 10 minutes later show the exact same footage with him dragging Eobard through time as he fondly remembers how he captured his mortal enemy. I really needed to see that twice. Just to be sure.
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Oct 6, 2016 02:14
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