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Blinkz0rz posted:Just be smart and be as restrictive as possible with your dependencies, audit package updates, and have a reliable rollback plan. Also npm shrinkwrap is your friend. Well yeah, that's exactly what you should do with things like python as well. The point is that even when applying the same policy to npm as you do to python, you may end up actually doing something different because the amount of your code that depends on frequently updating modules is going to be vastly different in python-land than it is in node-land.
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Oct 3, 2016 15:16
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qntm posted:So you hold a weekly shaming session for developers in your own organisation? It's a joke.
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Oct 3, 2016 15:19
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speng31b posted:It's a joke. These are engineers you're talking to in here. They don't understand lighthearted joking around with your colleagues.
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Oct 3, 2016 15:20
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Thermopyle posted:These are engineers you're talking to in here. They don't understand lighthearted joking around with your colleagues. I do but I still thought he was serious because this is the Something Awful Programming Forum we're talking about here and would it really be that shocking if this was true?
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Oct 3, 2016 15:48
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Thermopyle posted:These are engineers you're talking to in here. They don't understand lighthearted joking around with your colleagues.
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Oct 3, 2016 15:54
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Yeah I had to deal with some butthurt for showing internal code in an antipattern talk that was two years old and written by somebody that I know had left the company.
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Oct 3, 2016 15:59
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:If you think that public shaming of coworkers isn't something plausible for some programmers at some companies to do regularly then you overestimate the empathy of a lot of programmers. Well I guess this is true. I forgot that I've picked up other hints about this poster from his other posts around the forum that would lead me to believe he was just playing around.
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Oct 3, 2016 16:24
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Terrible cultures force better, more tolerant ones to accommodate the lowest common denominators of awful. Nothing unique to engineers.Thermopyle posted:So, whether the same policy works for a python app as for a js app depends on how much importance your organization gives to various factors.
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Oct 3, 2016 16:30
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Sorry. I am bad at joking and full of regret. I'm generally not a jerk to my coworkers. I work hard to be basically a decent person in the workplace!
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Oct 3, 2016 17:30
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I interpreted it as shaming Node devs/bozos in/from the open source "community." Not all Node developers.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:16
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Observations after a week of preparatory research for returning to programming: 1. VS Code is kind of amazing. Granted, this is coming from someone who last programmed AS3 in Adobe Flash (RIP) and PHP/CSS/JS in WordPress using Notepad++. 2. C++ seems the best starting point but I feel like I'm just poking it with a long stick right now before the sleeves get rolled up. 3. I still prefer dead tree books to websites for things like commentary on usability, code snippets/"cookbooks", and tutorials/refreshers. Programming might be a young person's game but every work/social environment needs a 'cool dad'. 
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Oct 3, 2016 19:20
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BlueInkAlchemist posted:2. C++ seems the best starting point but I feel like I'm just poking it
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Oct 3, 2016 21:56
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My God, Google does not mess around with food. I have another interview with a startup that is exactly what I want to do but it's going to be hard to pass up that perk.
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Oct 4, 2016 00:18
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muon posted:My God, Google does not mess around with food. I have another interview with a startup that is exactly what I want to do but it's going to be hard to pass up that perk. BlueInkAlchemist posted:2. C++ seems the best starting point but I feel like I'm just poking it with a long stick right now before the sleeves get rolled up.
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Oct 4, 2016 01:07
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muon posted:My God, Google does not mess around with food. I have another interview with a startup that is exactly what I want to do but it's going to be hard to pass up that perk. The food is nice but you can always buy food with money.
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Oct 4, 2016 01:10
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Ralith posted:Get an offer, then tell both of them that you're having trouble because the other one is really compelling for the respective reason, get better offers, flip a coin, then do the thing that you wish the coinflip had turned up. Google wasn't willing to negotiate on my offer. 
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Oct 4, 2016 01:19
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Google wasn't willing to negotiate on my offer. Did you have a better offer to use as leverage?
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Oct 4, 2016 01:25
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muon posted:My God, Google does not mess around with food. I have another interview with a startup that is exactly what I want to do but it's going to be hard to pass up that perk. Yeah, depending on the office it can be pretty excellent. My MTV colleagues actually complain about how lackluster their food is compared to NYC. Such a smart perk too, because it doesn't actually cost that much per head when you're cooking for an entire site, and it encourages people to come to work and interact instead of turning into WFH cave trolls. There's a bunch of warm and fuzzy language about "encouraging collaboration and spontaneous interaction between teams", but really 90% of the perks and office design is about how if you make your office environment as enjoyable a place to be as one's home, people will be happy to be at work for longer periods. Also helps recruiting, brand, etc.
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Oct 4, 2016 01:35
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mrmcd posted:Yeah, depending on the office it can be pretty excellent. My MTV colleagues actually complain about how lackluster their food is compared to NYC. Such a smart perk too, because it doesn't actually cost that much per head when you're cooking for an entire site, and it encourages people to come to work and interact instead of turning into WFH cave trolls. Getting lunch with sister teams and other people outside the people I normally work with is really loving useful, its not total bullshit.
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Oct 4, 2016 01:43
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Yeah I had to deal with some butthurt for showing internal code in an antipattern talk that was two years old and written by somebody that I know had left the company. I tend to use my own old code for this kind of thing, if I have some laying around that works as an example (there's plenty to choose from!  ) Sidesteps the sensitives, lets people know they can poke fun a bit.
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Oct 4, 2016 02:05
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apseudonym posted:Getting lunch with sister teams and other people outside the people I normally work with is really loving useful, its not total bullshit. Yeah, I just meant that there's lots of benefits beyond the proverbial black swan of two engineers from different teams invent the next gmail because they had lunch together. I am pro free delicious food and treating employees nicely in case that wasn't clear.
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Oct 4, 2016 02:23
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asur posted:Did you have a better offer to use as leverage? I didn't, no, and I'm sure this kind of thing varies from one situation to another. Good luck in any case!
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Oct 4, 2016 02:51
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I didn't, no, and I'm sure this kind of thing varies from one situation to another. Good luck in any case! No, it doesn't. Google will only update their offer if they get new information, like an offer from another company.
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Oct 4, 2016 02:56
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muon posted:My God, Google does not mess around with food. I have another interview with a startup that is exactly what I want to do but it's going to be hard to pass up that perk. I just started my second week and I haven't been to all of the cafes yet. I'm really grateful that the choice to eat a variety of healthy foods is easy to make, and on the other hand I can grab free soft serve whenever I want. Plus the time not spent preparing my meals is time I'm spending on my work laptop exploring all the internal knowledge or doing busywork forms while watching Netflix, which sounds weird but it's nice to feel like I can get things done at my convenience and feel good no matter where I am. If you want to know everyone you work with and have a bigger piece of the pie, the startup will be the best option. If you want to nerd out over minor performance advantages that disappear in a sea of others but could nonetheless save thousands of dollars or more at scale, you can't beat the wealth of internal resources at Google. More important than the free food, I feel, is the clean, beautiful version control system we have here, and the fact that your odds of running into frustratingly awful code is next to none. It must be a tough choice, as there is a great deal of potential with both options. I'm the kind of guy that's afraid to build something from the ground up, and would rather expand on existing infrastructure. Some people are excited to create something entirely new and all their own. I hope you find your best match! Stinky_Pete fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Oct 4, 2016 |
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Oct 4, 2016 05:16
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mrmcd posted:Yeah, depending on the office it can be pretty excellent. My MTV colleagues actually complain about how lackluster their food is compared to NYC. Wow, I need to watch out for excuses to visit NYC-9TH because I'm still processing the fact that i can have an "energy salad" and scrambled eggs and egg whites and a wee smoothie and some kind of hash for breakfast
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Oct 4, 2016 06:15
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Stinky_Pete posted:More important than the free food, I feel, is the clean, beautiful version control system we have here, and the fact that your odds of running into frustratingly awful code is next to none.
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Oct 4, 2016 06:24
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What's the best way to handle a super promising job that turned out to be utterly bland and in which I'm powerless? I got hired by a guy whose Surveillance Economy startup uses one of my open source projects with some song and dance about how I'd be doing a bunch of automation and dev work and helping modernize their operations and take them from "A bunch of shell scripts" to all the latest magic. It instead turns out to be half-rear end IT Ops in which I'm on-call in very weird and lovely schedules, the existing ops folk do not share the dream of automation (since shell scripts work fine what do you mean it takes 4 hours to deploy), and I've gotten to write precisely 5 lines of code. Oh and they want to use Docker for some reason even though precisely none of their services would benefit from it, and don't bother any of the existing ops or dev people, they're busy keeping the existing house of cards running and cranking out ~features~. I'd rather not just immediately quit since I started just a few months ago after an 8 month break in employment for some family stuff, but god drat I have no idea how to make them realise that scalability and reliability are features too, and I can't just magic up some Docker and poop out a perfectly formed infrastructure on their plates.
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Oct 4, 2016 08:25
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Urit posted:What's the best way to handle a super promising job that turned out to be utterly bland and in which I'm powerless? 
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Oct 4, 2016 10:23
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apseudonym posted:The food is nice but you can always buy food with money.
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Oct 4, 2016 11:43
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Urit posted:I'd rather not just immediately quit since I started just a few months ago after an 8 month break in employment for some family stuff, but god drat I have no idea how to make them realise that scalability and reliability are features too You're the expert, and that's why they sought you out. If they can't manage themselves well enough to take your advice, gently caress 'em.
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Oct 4, 2016 13:22
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minato posted:Interesting. I have a friend at Google who says one of their systemic problems is that engineers are measured by the impact they make, so they game the system by getting products out the door that have great impact, get recognized for the impact, then move on to other projects so they can avoid the low-impact & boring work of cleaning up the massive amount of Tech Debt they accumulated along the way. This results in a horrible codebase and lack of knowledge about how it works since the author has moved elsewhere. So many systems end up crushed under their own weight of Tech Debt, and then someone decides to rewrite the whole thing... and now you have two systems; "works but unmaintainable", and "beautifully written but Not Ready Yet". Ehhh... Both? Google is like the quantum superposition of tech stacks. All things are amazing and terrible at the same time. Although as someone who works outside MTV it is kinda funny watching all these amazing internal tools slow to a crawl around lunch time in California.
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Oct 4, 2016 13:31
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Urit posted:What's the best way to handle a super promising job that turned out to be utterly bland and in which I'm powerless? It's an even worse feeling when you're the freakin' team lead and have no power and no money to hire people that you could actually use and instead get more managers put on your team that objectively do not help your team get out from the technical debt that makes daily work miserable and monotonous.
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Oct 4, 2016 15:07
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We really need to start a googns mailing list.
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Oct 6, 2016 06:51
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Paolomania posted:We really need to start a googns mailing list. #cobol on internal IRC
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Oct 6, 2016 08:05
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b0lt posted:#cobol on internal IRC Hah, about IRC: the new company I joined is using slack for team members to communicate. We also have skype for business. Everyone uses whatever they want. Anyway, i thought about slack: how is it better than IRC? What can it do that IRC can't? I can use it just fine, but the client is quite annoying. I'd love to be able to pick whatever client I want (out of thousands).
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Oct 6, 2016 13:31
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Volguus posted:Hah, about IRC: the new company I joined is using slack for team members to communicate. We also have skype for business. Everyone uses whatever they want. Anyway, i thought about slack: how is it better than IRC? What can it do that IRC can't? I can use it just fine, but the client is quite annoying. I'd love to be able to pick whatever client I want (out of thousands). It's not better than irc. The value add is your IT people don't need to rear end with it.
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Oct 6, 2016 13:35
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Code snippets with highlighting, inline images (most importantly gifs), file sharing, encrypted connections, compliance archiving, viewing channel history from before you joined or were not logged in, fantastic search, etc. I'm sure these are all things that you can duct tape onto irc, but with Slack it just works.
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Oct 6, 2016 14:23
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It actually is better than IRC for the reason that in practice, it's an acceptable tool for basically everyone in the company, not just engineers and a few others, and IRC isn't. Whether or not you think people scared or intimidated or confused by IRC are idiots doesn't really matter; if a communications tool is not broadly adopted, it is inherently less useful.
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Oct 6, 2016 14:27
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Slack brings most of the value of IRC that most of us nerds have enjoyed for decades to the masses and makes it possible for us to pretend to work while sitting in IRC debating about dickgirls. Also, you can hook up your favorite IRC clients and bouncers to your Slack channels if your admin enables the IRC gateway. Good luck getting that in a no-fun corporate environment but at most companies not paranoid about security it should be fine. I think the IRC gateway can be setup to require SSL transport anyway.
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Oct 6, 2016 15:23
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leper khan posted:It's not better than irc. The value add is your IT people don't need to rear end with it. The IT department having one less thing to worry about I can buy (and while I don't know how much slack costs, its probably cheaper than maintaining an IRC server). About the rest of the company adopting the tool, couldn't care less about. If I need to speak with the administrative assistant, I can just send her an email.
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Oct 6, 2016 15:29
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