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I'm not following the argument that it uses the imagery gratuitously at all.
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Oct 6, 2016 22:02
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I'm not following the argument that it uses the imagery gratuitously at all. The bit where the guy points the camera down as he jumps between two collapsing towers is probably my least favorite moment. Like I said, it feels like it's using the imagery in a theme park sort of way. Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 22:05
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Zack Snyder's DCverse: Remembering Them Wrongly, And Disliking What We Remembered "I hated it when this part happened" *never actually happened*
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Oct 6, 2016 22:07
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:The bit where the guy points the camera down as he jumps between two collapsing towers is probably my least favorite moment. A CinemaSin, but a minor one, imho
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Oct 6, 2016 22:09
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At what point is it going to be considered OK for a city to be attacked in a movie?
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Oct 6, 2016 22:22
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:At what point is it going to be considered OK for a city to be attacked in a movie? it already is, cities are attacked in movies all the time. it's happened in at least three movies this year.
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Oct 6, 2016 22:24
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I hated when Holly Hunter was just gulping down the piss jar, and it was dribbling down her face, and she was like "This is the best peech tea I've had in my loving LIFE." Then she looks at Lex but Lex isn't there, in his seat is just a sign that says "ITS PISS". And then Wally West aka The Flash explodes because Geoff Johns hates him. And the piss from the jar splashes all over Superman. This scene was not tasteful imo.
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Oct 6, 2016 22:27
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:At what point is it going to be considered OK for a city to be attacked in a movie? The thing is it's not the "when" that's the problem - it's the technology. Cloverfield adopts this conceit which is both narrative and cinematographic, but which is also obviously a flagrant reference to how contemporary modes of recording and communications technology has changed the way people interact with and perceive events - or can perceive them in a high concept fantasy scenario. Because there were no found footage movies in 1953, you had to make your romantic sci-fi opera in a studio with actors reading the newspaper and saying, "Well, this is bad," or the Diet collapsing into partisan turmoil. There's also just the fact that the special effects of the film - tokusatsu eiga literally just means "special filming," as in novel or spectacular, not necessarily "serious" - give it this "brute address." You're prevented from engaging with it as a film "of the moment." Meanwhile Cloverfield came out seven years after not only a major terrorist attack in New York City (where the film takes place!), but contemporary to the War on Terror. It's bound to be read as fundamentally exploitative, even though both films are actually built around young, intrepid citizens falling into romantic turmoil.
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Oct 6, 2016 22:32
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I've always said that if Cloverfield was actually interested in examining 9/11 in an interesting and honest way, then instead of having the second and third acts become "I have to go rescue my girlfriend!", they could've had it be about accepting that his girlfriend was dead and the last time he saw her alive he was very nasty to her. That's some interesting and real drama that naturally arises from catastrophe. But maybe that's why they don't let me write popcorn movies. Or at least popcorn movies about 9/11. greatn posted:I hated when Holly Hunter was just gulping down the piss jar, and it was dribbling down her face, and she was like "This is the best peech tea I've had in my loving LIFE." Then she looks at Lex but Lex isn't there, in his seat is just a sign that says "ITS PISS". And then Wally West aka The Flash explodes because Geoff Johns hates him. And the piss from the jar splashes all over Superman. it tasted full of something alright... full of piss
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Oct 6, 2016 22:32
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:At what point is it going to be considered OK for a city to be attacked in a movie? Honestly, cinema has been cashing in on depictions of other people's misery for a long time. How many movies are out there that depict terrorist attacks in foreign countries, or have Americans cut bloody swathes through non Americans to popular acclaim. Like I get that 9/11 will cut close to home for Americans, especially New Yorkers, but Hollywood isn't exactly a bastion of sensitivity when it comes to violent acts abroad. Is a depiction of something terrible so on the nose as to be taboo?
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Oct 6, 2016 22:33
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I've always said that if Cloverfield was actually interested in examining 9/11 in an interesting and honest way, then instead of having the second and third acts become "I have to go rescue my girlfriend!", they could've had it be about accepting that his girlfriend was dead and the last time he saw her alive he was very nasty to her. That's some interesting and real drama that naturally arises from catastrophe. Godzilla is about a woman who's sleeping with one guy, while her father wants her to marry another creepier, more obsessive guy. It ends with the creepy, obsessive guy killing himself and leaving the lovers and father wracked with guilt. Cloverfield is exactly as romantically fatalistic, except that nobody lives to feel guilty about it.
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Oct 6, 2016 22:36
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greatn posted:I hated when Holly Hunter was just gulping down the piss jar, and it was dribbling down her face, and she was like "This is the best peech tea I've had in my loving LIFE." Then she looks at Lex but Lex isn't there, in his seat is just a sign that says "ITS PISS". And then Wally West aka The Flash explodes because Geoff Johns hates him. And the piss from the jar splashes all over Superman. What a pro, though!
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Oct 6, 2016 22:36
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The MSJ posted:Hugh Jackman commissioned these covers from Joe Quesada for Bryan Singer. The coloring on that is loving awful, just look at how ruined the pencils/inks are HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It also works because violence isn't volleyball. Uncle Boogeyman posted:The things about Godzilla is it was willing to really grapple with all that stuff in a serious way, whereas Cloverfield felt like 9/11: The Ride. Cloverfield apes Godzilla really explicitly with the scenes of people dying in hospitals, but doesn't stick the landing because of goofy stuff like rebar impaling survivor girl and how often it feels like someone's fantasy of what they would totally have done if they were there at 9/11. Which isn't a problem necessarily, but it's a weird juxtaposition to the use of the camera as distancing device to have it also be a daydream badass fantasy.
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Oct 6, 2016 22:38
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DeimosRising posted:Cloverfield apes Godzilla really explicitly with the scenes of people dying in hospitals, but doesn't stick the landing because of goofy stuff like rebar impaling survivor girl and how often it feels like someone's fantasy of what they would totally have done if they were there at 9/11. Which isn't a problem necessarily, but it's a weird juxtaposition to the use of the camera as distancing device to have it also be a daydream badass fantasy. Yeah that rebar bit bugged me a lot too. Like, I get that this is a weird thing to say about a giant monster movie, but it felt so dishonest. If you're gonna use that kind of imagery, you gotta follow through with the horror of it.
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Oct 6, 2016 22:40
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I gotta tell you I don't really see any drama coming out of a guy realizing that the love of his life died off-camera and he was lovely to to her. That seems almost anti-drama and would be comical if the dude was crying about his mean words while a monster stomped people and/or made their blood explode.
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Oct 6, 2016 23:04
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I gotta tell you I don't really see any drama coming out of a guy realizing that the love of his life died off-camera and he was lovely to to her. That seems almost anti-drama and would be comical if the dude was crying about his mean words while a monster stomped people and/or made their blood explode. You don't see any drama coming from realizing your last interaction with someone was cruel or just unpleasant, and you never get to take it back, so you just have to accept it and move on? Really? Because it's a pretty common scenario in both real life and fiction, and having seen it happen in both, pretty dramatic. You've never seen any variation on "and to think, the last thing I said to her was _____"?
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Oct 6, 2016 23:15
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He actually does say that in the movie, though. And it creates drama because here he is going to rescue her, with that threat hanging over his head. What drama does it create if she's dead? If anything he would be nicer to everyone. They could be stepped on/impaled/blood-exploded at any moment. I mean, I guess the remorse could change his interpersonal reactions in a positive way, and he could beat himself up for some sad internal monologues...don't really think much more of it than that. Edit: UB, to be clear, I'm thinking of this in terms of a one-man show or other media format that highlights regret/reflection on relationships...the drama in these tends to come from flashbacks, but Cloverfield is a monster movie. I can't think of a way to meld a regret-filled flashback/relationship drama with a monster stomping around AND make it found footage AND not make it farcical (*Cloverfield steps on a fleeing pedestrian* "That reminds me of the time that Samantha and I went to the beach..."). But I'm not very creative. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 23:26
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:He actually does say that in the movie, though. And it creates drama because here he is going to rescue her, with that threat hanging over his head. What drama does it create if she's alive? If she's just the damsel to be rescued he doesn't actually have to deal with his mistakes. Do you seriously not see the dramatic potential in knowing your last interaction with a loved one was acrimonious? Movies do this all the time. And like I said earlier, I'm sure it happened a lot on September 11th. This is also why I'm saying the movie's use of 9/11 imagery feels dishonest. People didn't get a do-over. Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 23:40
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Do you seriously not see the dramatic potential in knowing your last interaction with a loved one was acrimonious? I seriously do see it! I'm talkin' about the context of Cloverfield, though and I just don't think we're gonna convince each other.
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Oct 6, 2016 23:47
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It's dramatic for the individual, definitely, it just sounds like a hard sell in a movie of found monster attack footage. Especially 2/3 of one. Just make an actual 9/11 survivor movie and don't waste time on a CGI monster attack at the beginning in that case. Interesting side note, 10 Cloverfield Lane has the main character wake up in the bunker after arguing with her boyfriend and storming off. Maybe he died trying to rescue her in an alternate universe movie.
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Oct 6, 2016 23:48
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Nobody gets a "do-over" in Cloverfield. Everybody is dead.
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Oct 6, 2016 23:48
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9/11 is the only terrorist act (or act of violence of any sort) with consequence or import in history
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Oct 6, 2016 23:49
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K. Waste posted:Nobody gets a "do-over" in Cloverfield. Everybody is dead. I saw Cloverfield with some nerd friends when it was released. At the end of the movie a couple were like "WHO goes back into the city to RESCUE their girlfriend from a HUGE MONSTER?!?!? SO STUPID!" and I was like "The movie agrees. It was stupid. They all died." Their response was that the movie was a waste of time. If I had been smarter, I would have countered with "watching a guy run away from a monster for 70 minutes would also be a waste of time." Alas...I am not.
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Oct 6, 2016 23:52
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Godzilla and Cloverfield are both about 'survivor's guilt,' the question of, "How can we possibly go on with all that we've left behind?" The answer is, "Make a monster."
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Oct 6, 2016 23:57
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K. Waste posted:Nobody gets a "do-over" in Cloverfield. Everybody is dead. But not before the young lovers get to reunite and have their romantic death scene in each other's arms. That's what I'm talking about.
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Oct 6, 2016 23:59
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You know this is from a movie because Stewart looks old. https://twitter.com/mang0ld/status/784035131380031489
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Oct 7, 2016 00:06
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:But not before the young lovers get to reunite and have their romantic death scene in each other's arms. That's what I'm talking about. Those young lovers now only exist in the feedback loop where their single sublime moment is constantly juxtaposed with their morbid and statistically non-variant deaths, as part of a backlog of shady, post-giant monster government classifieds. So it is a "do-over" in the sense that we only perceive it in terms of this warped document, which occurs over-and-over again. This is the context of this flagrant, but myopic, romantic spectacle - within this matrix-y, statistical binding. The superficial meaning of the tape, per the characters' subjective, is the "love conquers all" cliche. What the context tells us is quite different: Material love can't stop the war.
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Oct 7, 2016 00:26
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Also, they die and then we immediately get a flashback to a happy day in their relationship. Just like I said - that's how you do drama when one (or both) of the participants can no longer contribute to the relationship. Also their death scene is not that romantic. The female lead is very clearly traumatized and the two of them get out a single off-camera "I love you" to each other in between screaming, getting buried, and exploding.
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Oct 7, 2016 00:35
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Jonah Galtberg posted:9/11 is the only terrorist act (or act of violence of any sort) with consequence or import in history What are you even responding to? Cloverfield and BvS are explicitly about 9/11, no one is claiming, like, Battle of Algiers or Day/Night/Day/Night are about 9/11 even though DNDN is about bombing Times Square.
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Oct 7, 2016 00:41
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The entire context leading up to this is that the guy doesn't know if he should go be a white collar worker in Japan, or stay a white collar worker in America with his rich girlfriend. So Japan comes to him. He gets to have the best of both worlds.
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Oct 7, 2016 00:42
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DeimosRising posted:What are you even responding to? Cloverfield and BvS are explicitly about 9/11, no one is claiming, like, Battle of Algiers or Day/Night/Day/Night are about 9/11 even though DNDN is about bombing Times Square. Day Night Day Night is fuckin ownzone. I should just get it on DVD and be done with it.
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Oct 7, 2016 00:48
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Also, they die and then we immediately get a flashback to a happy day in their relationship. Just like I said - that's how you do drama when one (or both) of the participants can no longer contribute to the relationship. That's not drama, that's just ironic commentary, and way too cutesy for my liking. Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Also their death scene is not that romantic. The female lead is very clearly traumatized and the two of them get out a single off-camera "I love you" to each other in between screaming, getting buried, and exploding. Actually, you know what movie does a really good version of this? Miracle Mile. In fact, Miracle Mile and Cloverfield are similar in a lot of ways, I wonder if the Cloverfield guys had it in mind. Love me some Miracle Mile. Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 00:54
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Brother Entropy posted:if self-importance is what it takes for these studios to make movies that don't go in one ear and out the other then bring it on imo
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Oct 7, 2016 01:24
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Day Night Day Night is fuckin ownzone. I should just get it on DVD and be done with it. You put me on to it and blew me the gently caress away.
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Oct 7, 2016 01:25
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I really want them to drop a trailer, I can't wait to see the stuff in motion.
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Oct 7, 2016 02:52
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greatn posted:I hated when Holly Hunter was just gulping down the piss jar, and it was dribbling down her face, and she was like "This is the best peech tea I've had in my loving LIFE." Then she looks at Lex but Lex isn't there, in his seat is just a sign that says "ITS PISS". And then Wally West aka The Flash explodes because Geoff Johns hates him. And the piss from the jar splashes all over Superman. Superman poured the piss on himself.
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Oct 7, 2016 07:03
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DeimosRising posted:What are you even responding to? Cloverfield and BvS are explicitly about 9/11, no one is claiming, like, Battle of Algiers or Day/Night/Day/Night are about 9/11 even though DNDN is about bombing Times Square. This might be slightly off topic but we're talking about terror attacks and Japanese movies sooo Are there any movies that deal with the Aum Shinrinko attacks that came out of Japan in the immediate aftermath? I know Evangelion was affected by in because it was in production at the time (the Wiki page for that is what led me to reading about the attacks), but are there any movies about it in the same way that Gojira is about Hiroshima or Cloverfield is about 9/11, or even a less fictional depiction?
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Oct 7, 2016 07:40
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Yoshifan823 posted:This might be slightly off topic but we're talking about terror attacks and Japanese movies sooo I'm not sure about actually addressing it, but a similar story to NGE is the Super Sentai series OhRanger, which became the Power Ranger season Zeo. OhRanger was originally a very militarized series, aiming to be much more serious and dramatic like some of the 80s shows before it. The attacks happened during the early episodes though and the show scrapped all of that, becoming a much goofier, campier thing that introduced sillier villains and even more kid friendly toys. Kind of like how immediately after and for a few years following 9/11 any depiction of a building exploding or being destroyed was censored in America.
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Oct 7, 2016 07:43
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:True, but doesn't change the fact that Nightbreed is very good.
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Oct 7, 2016 08:01
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Marvel is supposed to show some footage and new info from Dr. Strange, Thor 3, and Guardians 2 at NYCC today or tomorrow. Not sure if it will be made public, but keep an eye out for that. DC is releasing some stuff about their TV shows, but no big movie news except the name of the new Batman movie.
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Oct 7, 2016 13:53
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