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Unbelievably Fat Man posted:That doesn't explain how he got suggested for duty on the flagship of the Federation. He filled out all the forms properly.
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Oct 7, 2016 03:55
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They probably included Data on the theory that his autistic robot powers would probably come in handy in a pinch, and since the Enterprise was going to be sticking its dick in the universe's mashed potatoes more often than the USS Princeton-Plainsboro, they might as well put him there. Maybe Riker would gently caress him. Worked out pretty good.
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Oct 7, 2016 04:06
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MikeJF posted:I want entire sections of the ship where humans have to wear benzite-style breathers and production abuses the dry ice. MrL_JaKiri posted:Have you watched Babylon 5, I can't remember This is going to become standard advice, if it hasn't already.
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Oct 7, 2016 04:11
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Nessus posted:They probably included Data on the theory that his autistic robot powers would probably come in handy in a pinch, and since the Enterprise was going to be sticking its dick in the universe's mashed potatoes more often than the USS Princeton-Plainsboro, they might as well put him there. Maybe Riker would gently caress him. So Riker went from loving holograms to loving robots?
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Oct 7, 2016 04:15
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:This is going to become standard advice, if it hasn't already. Babylon 5 has aged like Carlo Rossi: maybe it was good twenty years ago but now it tastes like poo poo compared to modern cheap wines.
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Oct 7, 2016 04:24
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Just watched the one where Data tries to learn comedy. I don't know why they didn't teach him about the double act or something since he'd actually be good at that instead of whatever the gently caress that very unfunny holo-dude was teaching him.
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Oct 7, 2016 04:24
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Pwnstar posted:Just watched the one where Data tries to learn comedy. I don't know why they didn't teach him about the double act or something since he'd actually be good at that instead of whatever the gently caress that very unfunny holo-dude was teaching him. ...and that unfunny holo-dude...was 
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Oct 7, 2016 04:31
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That comic would be Joe Piscopo doing a very bad Jerry Lewis impression.
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Oct 7, 2016 04:31
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Nessus posted:They probably included Data on the theory that his autistic robot powers would probably come in handy in a pinch, and since the Enterprise was going to be sticking its dick in the universe's mashed potatoes more often than the USS Princeton-Plainsboro, they might as well put him there. Maybe Riker would gently caress him. Star Trek: Maybe Riker would gently caress him.
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Oct 7, 2016 04:57
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Cojawfee posted:Data's backstory just doesn't make any sense. He was in Starfleet for over 20 years but still had to have basic things explained to him. Yeah, he already had twenty years of Star Fleet experience and several years of socialization on the colony when the show started. Really, Data is one of the worst realized characters on the entire show. He's well acted, but nothing about who he is actually makes sense. Why does he want to be human? Seven years and they never really explained the basic impulse. I mean, if he doesn't have emotion, why is he invested in it? I'm pretty loving sure "wanting to belong" is an emotion. Also, Data comes across like an autist because half the time he's written like he does have emotions but simply can't express them. With Spock, the breaks in his logical facade worked because, of course, he does have emotions, they're just controlled, but with Data, it just comes across as inconsistency. Also, no one that childlike, easily confused, or interpersonally impaired should be in a supervisorial or command position. Period. I love the episode where Data commands a ship on blockade duty, but that's later-seasons Data. The Data from the first couple years was never in that position and it was sort of impossible to imagine him being. How is it possible that a man who doesn't understand simple metaphors or common figures of speech, can't tell when someone is joking, lacks even an intellectual understanding of human emotion, and can't make judgement calls without having someone explain the concept of intuition to him is third in command of a ship of a thousand people. Even if Riker is the full-time Executive Officer (really though, how would he have time for anything but staff meetings?) and the various department heads are handling the day-to-day management, Data is still a ranking officer who would be expected to handle administrative tasks and lead teams all the time, not to mention being in command every third shift or so. Yet numerous times we are shown that Data is unused to leading teams, uncomfortable giving orders, and weirdly deferential to people he outranks. He also apparently spends most of his time doing complex technical work when he's ostensibly a supervisor. Oh and we almost never see him giving orders in the first few seasons. I don't even know why they made him second officer, he's not written like one, they rarely do anything with it, and it's manifestly the wrong job for him. It's absurd. Also, there's no way I'm going back to check, but I seem to remember several scenes with Tasha and Data where it's written like she outranks him -- which, frankly, would have made a lot more sense.
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Oct 7, 2016 05:29
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This is going to sound terrible, but Data is a very glaring Affirmative Action type character, included to push the evolved sensibilities angle. I remember a lot of hay being made about him being a Singular entity in the entirety of Starfleet early on, and it felt like some of his rank and status was kind of a way to show how exceptional he was. I guess we can kind of excuse part of it since its The 80s and society was different and all but that inclusiveness of the first season hasn't aged too well, and we're drat lucky the writers and actors got a handle on character dynamics to the point they did. There's literally no loving way he gets to be in the fleet for 20 years (unless he was a service ensign doing Level 2 manifold retuning diagnostics for 15 years) without the issue of his sentience being brought up, or without Starfleet trying to see if they can get a holographic scan of how he works to create a bunch of him for fleetwide service. We're also way overthinking a show that was supposed to launch a network and eventually was an oddly strong syndicated series (that by all means should have died a terrible death due to that). To cap off Datachat, that poo poo about him recovering from the B4DataRecoveryDisc.Posinet then uploading himself to the USA Geordieprise and running around through some data hive mind of Mobile emitter drones is really depressing, loses sight if his overarching primary challenge/drive, and sets us up for hack-level DataBorg poo poo. It's so bad.
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Oct 7, 2016 05:59
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Zurui posted:Babylon 5 has aged like Carlo Rossi: maybe it was good twenty years ago but now it tastes like poo poo compared to modern cheap wines. I've been trying to get through it and the cheese factor is a little too strong. Which is weird to me since I understand DS9 was going on around the same time and those premises are pretty similar.
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Oct 7, 2016 06:26
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MrJacobs posted:It was an experiment of putting a useless psychologist and a super-strong autistic robot on a ship. It failed miserably since you never see either on any other starship, but the Enterprise had to make the best of it. For a ship as big as the Enterprise and with the potential for going on long-duration missions, it absolutely does make sense to put a trained mental health specialist aboard the ship.
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Oct 7, 2016 06:29
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nerdman42 posted:I've been trying to get through it and the cheese factor is a little too strong. Which is weird to me since I understand DS9 was going on around the same time and those premises are pretty similar.
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Oct 7, 2016 06:30
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nerdman42 posted:I've been trying to get through it and the cheese factor is a little too strong. Which is weird to me since I understand DS9 was going on around the same time and those premises are pretty similar. I've made it to near the end of S3 and it's really reached some heights. The thing about early on is that it feels like a stage play, all scenery-chewing villains and googly eye-rolling facial expressions and low-budget cardboard sets. But fairly quickly the stuff that they realized just doesn't work gets trimmed out (like the praying mantis puppet), and the writing and the execution of the writing tightens up nicely, to the point where most of the dialogue makes me think "drat I wish they could talk like this in Star Trek". I gotta love a Trek-mode captain who yells "up yours" at a dude
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Oct 7, 2016 06:41
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Yeah, I've had numerous friends swear up and down the B5 is fantastic and DS9 is a pale imitation and, gently caress, maybe it is. But as comparably weak as DS9's first season was, everyone on it can act (even Terry Farrell at her sleepiest looks positively vibrant when compared with whoever played Ivanova), the dialog bears at least a superficial resemblance to human speech, and you don't have to watch the whole thing in dingy fuzzovision. B5's first season is a really tough sell (I've never gotten through it), and I've been told that I can't really skip episodes if I want to know what's going on. I'll give it another shot sooner or later, because I genuinely believe I'd like it once I got used to it, but it's pretty hard to work up the interest. e: Nessus posted:I suspect DS9 being episodic actually cuts in its favor here. Some of the episodes have turned to poo poo, like Profit and Lace, but there's a resilience in the different approaches. They also probably did have more to work with, resource-wise. Could be, on-going storylines can get exhausting and it's nice to switch things up. Profit and Lace is funny because it's simultaneously not nearly as bad and somehow much worse than its premise implies and I think episodes like it (quality aside) do demonstrate a certain flexibility of premise that frequently worked in DS9s favor. Duckbox fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 06:46
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As low budget as trek got, I'm pretty sure they never just stuck a guy in a gorilla suit. That's some Robot Monster tier poo poo right there.
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Oct 7, 2016 07:24
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Yeah, I think the fact that you apparently have to watch every single episode of Babylon 5, in order for it to make any sense, works against it. Like I got a friend of mine watching DS9, and we skipped ahead to watch Little Green Men because I thought he'd like it - and then we skipped back and all I had to do was explain a couple of highlights and identify a couple of characters for him. Also I don't think I like JMS's writing very much? So, like, this presents a certain problem which you don't get with any of the Treks.
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Oct 7, 2016 07:24
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Yeah, JMS's writing is extremely stiff, especially the dialog. I just watched the pilot because I wasn't sure I was being fair to the show and at least half of the words coming out of people's mouths were unvarnished exposition. It's a pilot, so I understand the need for setup and I'm sure it gets better, but it's really hard to relate to characters that only occasionally do anything besides announce plot points and recite backstory at each other (a problem Trek can also have). The episode also had a really pat ending with the most contrived "the B plot turned out to be key to the A plot" convergence imaginable. That said, there are some good things going on thematically and a couple of the speeches were pretty decent. I may keep watching.
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Oct 7, 2016 07:47
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I love Babylon 5 and even I think the pilot is unwatchable garbage.
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Oct 7, 2016 07:56
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Hmm, when I said "the pilot" I meant episode one, Midnight at the Firing Line, because I didn't know they'd already made a movie "The Gathering." Should I watch The Gathering, or is it worse than the pretty rocky poo poo I just watched? e: Also, for some reason, the one thing that doesn't really bother me is the terrible CG. Maybe it's because I played a lot of Freespace. Duckbox fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 08:41
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If you can't handle Season 1, any episode of it really, then you absolutely should not watch 'The Gathering'. Not until you're sold on the series. I think The Gathering might be the worst bit of B5 produced, second to 'Legend of the Rangers'.
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Oct 7, 2016 08:46
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Ok, I'll just skip it then. On to Soul Hunter!
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Oct 7, 2016 08:48
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You're all some weak-rear end nerds if you can't watch Babylon 5 all the way through.
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Oct 7, 2016 08:50
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I haven't given up yet, but in no way am I going to claim to be a strong nerd either wayData Graham posted:I've made it to near the end of S3 and it's really reached some heights. The thing about early on is that it feels like a stage play, all scenery-chewing villains and googly eye-rolling facial expressions and low-budget cardboard sets. But fairly quickly the stuff that they realized just doesn't work gets trimmed out (like the praying mantis puppet), and the writing and the execution of the writing tightens up nicely, to the point where most of the dialogue makes me think "drat I wish they could talk like this in Star Trek". I have the first few seasons on DVD so I've been thinking "might as well". Good to hear some things improve though because there are already traces of it in my current progress. Nerdietalk fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 09:06
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Nessus posted:The thing I wonder about is the more alien aliens, which presumably exist but are - for budget reasons - rarely seen. Like some of those dudes have to be in the Federation, even if they're veiled by the production budget. That was a good thing in Beyond, there were a lot of background aliens in the Enterprise crew. Babylon 5 is good go watch it.
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Oct 7, 2016 09:14
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OK, two episodes in and all the human characters are Enterprise level non-entities (with even worse acting, somehow) and both plots were contrived hackery, but I'm digging the hammy aliens. Dellen's reaction when she saw the Soul Hunter was like when the villager in a Hammer horror movie hears the word "Dracula" and I actually laughed out loud when the souls/Christmas tree ornaments on wires turned on the Soul Hunter. I shall press on!
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Oct 7, 2016 09:51
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The first season is rough (but very much rewards a rewatch), nobody will deny that. Keep going. Londo and G'Kar is probably my favorite TV character arc ever.
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Oct 7, 2016 09:53
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Since we're on the subject, I'm currently watching Legend of the Rangers on a streaming site... Holy poo poo, it's worse than I remember.
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Oct 7, 2016 10:32
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Q_res posted:I'm currently watching Legend of the Rangers 
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Oct 7, 2016 10:39
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Meanwhile, episode 3 "Born in the Purple" was actually pretty good (really only the scenes with Londo and G'Kar, but fortunately that's most of it). poo poo guys, four hours ago my plan was just to watch enough of this show to see if it was as bad as I remembered, but now I think I might actually be hooked. e: The most surprising thing about that episode was probably that the love interest didn't die. Still a stock plot, but that was OK because Londo's just so likeable. Duckbox fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 10:41
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An appropriate reaction, but I hadn't seen it since its original airing. I couldn't help myself, I had to see if my memory of it was accurate... edit: I also found this clip of a Babylon 5 cast reunion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oHtLmjKRbE Q_res fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 10:44
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OK so episode four starts with some lame banter from Garibaldi followed by a solid minute of infodumping from reporter lady, Dr. Can't Act has a mysterious friend, and B5's cargo inspection has proven singularly ineffective against evil smugglers -- cut to opening. This... this is going to be a bad one isn't it?
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Oct 7, 2016 11:04
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Dr. Can't Act was still in soap opera acting mode in the beginning. Also he was more or less 100% deaf and thus memorized not only his own lines, but everyone's, and lip-read his way through scenes. He's actually doing a hell of a job.
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Oct 7, 2016 11:13
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It's as subtle as a brick. (Infection, that is) It was also the first episode produced so
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Oct 7, 2016 11:17
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Nessus posted:They also probably did have more to work with, resource-wise. There's no probably about it. DS9 had like 5 times the budget per episode, as well as much more leeway for things like Emissary. Duckbag posted:B5's first season is a really tough sell (I've never gotten through it), and I've been told that I can't really skip episodes if I want to know what's going on. That's just nerds being nerds. The first series has a hell of a lot of foreshadowing - most of which you had no idea was or could be setting up for later things - but foreshadowing is not the same as necessary stuff. I first watched it in series 4 (which features, very early on, the end of one of the long running story lines) and I enjoyed it even though I missed out on the character development up to that point, and knowing that the twists were twists. TV - especially TV that built up so much from world of mouth - cannot assume that people joining in in series 2, series 3 have watched series 1. If you really can't handle series 1, watch Signs and Portents and Chrysalis and watch on from there. Series 1 is much, much, much better on a rewatch. Nessus posted:Yeah, I think the fact that you apparently have to watch every single episode of Babylon 5, in order for it to make any sense, works against it. Like I got a friend of mine watching DS9, and we skipped ahead to watch Little Green Men because I thought he'd like it - and then we skipped back and all I had to do was explain a couple of highlights and identify a couple of characters for him. There's B5 episodes that stand alone (you can go watch something like Passing Through Gethsemene from series 3 right now and get most of it, for example), but by and large this isn't a problem as the episodes that have major arc significance are great (if they weren't the programme wouldn't be nearly as well regarded). MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 11:23
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Duckbag posted:Yeah, JMS's writing is extremely stiff, especially the dialog. I just watched the pilot because I wasn't sure I was being fair to the show and at least half of the words coming out of people's mouths were unvarnished exposition. It's a pilot, so I understand the need for setup and I'm sure it gets better, but it's really hard to relate to characters that only occasionally do anything besides announce plot points and recite backstory at each other (a problem Trek can also have). The episode also had a really pat ending with the most contrived "the B plot turned out to be key to the A plot" convergence imaginable. I had this exact problem with the first episode, right from the start. Smack in the cold open you get hit with "Tell them we're under attack! Tell them it's the————————————[DEEP BREATH]" [CUT AWAY AS THEY GET BLOWN UP] [CUT TO PLOT BASED AROUND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO IT WAS WHO ATTACKED] which is one of my worst pet peeves about bad writers. But within half a season that kind of thing has gone completely away and everyone talks much more fluidly and naturally, interrupts each other in a realistic way, sounds like real humans talking, etc. Also once you're past that first conversation between Garibaldi and Londo where they're basically looking into the camera and saying "OKAY LET ME TELL YOU THE VIEWER ABOUT OUR HUNDRED YEAR HISTORY TOGETHER", that kind of poo poo never happens again either. An awful lot of unforgivable crappiness gets out of the way real early on.
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Oct 7, 2016 11:54
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Grand Fromage posted:Dr. Can't Act was still in soap opera acting mode in the beginning. Also he was more or less 100% deaf and thus memorized not only his own lines, but everyone's, and lip-read his way through scenes. He's actually doing a hell of a job. Holy poo poo, that explains so much, especially his timing. I kinda feel like a dick now, but I still can't say I appreciate the performance that much, even if it is suddenly way more impressive. Meanwhile, Infection was indeed total crap (not enough aliens) and got super preachy at the end. Sinclair seems more like proto-Archer by the episode. I'm a little put off the show now, but it is scratching that space opera itch, so I think I'll stick with it and report back. Good night, sweet Trek thread.
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Oct 7, 2016 11:58
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GORDON posted:"If I hadn't, the cost would have been my soul." Sarek delivers the previous line with a good bit of emotion.
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Oct 7, 2016 13:52
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All the B5 chat warms my heart, but there is a B5 thread too, first-timer friendly with a few already into watchthroughs like Data Graham. Come aboard if you like!
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Oct 7, 2016 19:14
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