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Electromax posted:They wouldn't fight because they would put Han Solo up on their big skype screen and be charmed by his scoundrel-y ways. Season 2 Episode 4, "The Outrageous Okona".
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Oct 7, 2016 06:43
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Serf posted:The fact that no one in the galaxy seems to recognize that droids are a sentient species of slaves is supposed to be recognized by the audience as hosed up, Tezzor. This theme can be seen across every single movie, even TFA. Literal children are capable of understanding this.
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Oct 7, 2016 09:38
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what loving movies are you people watching. there's literally like one throwaway line
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Oct 7, 2016 09:39
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Cnut the Great posted:What should Yoda have told Anakin instead? That trying to save her isn't wrong. That accepting loss as inevitable isn't the first course of action. That he is not alone in his struggle.
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Oct 7, 2016 11:25
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Cnut the Great posted:The fact that Lucas did these specific things intentionally isn't even particularly interesting at this point, it's just that it's trivially and objectively true and the only reason it keeps being argued about is because certain people are just incapable of conceding that Lucas has ever had a mildly deep thought about anything. Hey, where is the cavalcade of pedants going to tear into this dude for misusing the word "objectively"? Oh, that only occurs to people who don't agree with the clowncar consensus? Odd... The Jedi were being corrupted by being in the war. This makes them hypocrites. How does it make them hypocrites? I guess because they preach peace but are in a war. But they didn't want to be in a war, don't like being in a war and are trying to end it as fast as they can. Non-interference in the war doesn't even make sense in its own universe; the war is being deliberately started by both sides and will occur irrespective of the Jedis' actions, except Yoda not Sending In The Clones means that all the Jedi except him die and Luke and Leia are never born. But causality and reason aside let's say it's true. They're hypocrites in this fashion for being in a war and are being Corrupted. So uh what about the previous 60% of the series, because the war starts in the back half of the third act of the second movie. What's the excuse for their lovely stupid behavior prior to that? And they're still not hypocrites in that they all have secret wives but won't let Anakin have one! That's kind of what ultimately matters, isn't it?
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Oct 7, 2016 11:37
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Schwarzwald posted:I think you might be confusing me and my position with others in this thread, so let me try to be absolutely clear. You earlier said this: You didn't answer the question. I understand that you can weasel out of any statement I put before you. You have failed to answer: Why does neither he nor anyone else ever say anything to support this thesis? Not once, not ever?
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Oct 7, 2016 11:41
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Tezzor... please stop... I'm begging you...
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Oct 7, 2016 11:55
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IronicDongz posted:what loving movies are you people watching. there's literally like one throwaway line Of course it's a significant theme. The debasement and abuse of droids, both verbal and physical, is pervasive throughout the entire series. The only way you could deny that this is a significant theme is if you deny that droids are supposed to be people to be sympathized with in the first place. What "throwaway line" are you talking about, and do you realize that there's way more to movies than just lines of dialogue? Dialogue is actually among the least important elements of most movies. There is a scene in the very first Star Wars movie where the droids are lined up and examined by prospective buyers in a way that is clearly meant to evoke a slave auction. For the rest of the series after this, droids' status as the lowest, most abused members of society is repeatedly revisited. C-3PO openly laments that the lot in life for a droid seems to be to suffer. He is later barred from a dining establishment in a way that is clearly meant to evoke real-world prejudice and discrimination. In the prequels, Obi-Wan--consistently portrayed as being blithely intolerant of life forms he deems to be "pathetic"--makes offensive jokes about droids and is at one point admonished for it by the more droid-friendly Anakin. The human-ness of the lower class servant characters and the resultant discomfort one feels at their constant mistreatment is in fact one of many themes woven throughout the series. In fact, it's intricately tied in with one of the most central themes of the series, the question of the humanity of the "more machine than man" Darth Vader: George Lucas posted:Having machines, like the droids, that are reasonably compassionate and a man like Vader who becomes a machine and loses his compassion was a theme that interested me.
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Oct 7, 2016 11:56
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Ferrinus posted:Well if his advice was helpful because without it Anakin would've become evil faster, there was no contradiction between the movie, what people in this thread say about the movie, and the Lucas commentary about the movie, and you have no case at all. Your entire plan of attack falls flat. What are you talking about? What the ostensible people in this thread say about the movie is that his advice wasn't helpful for stopping Anakin from being evil. He was Corrupted, a hypocrite, out of touch and so disconnected from humanity he can't see obvious poo poo right in front of his face, giving useless advice, and a supporter of hashtag robo genocide. If his advice was actually helpful for keeping a guy from becoming evil and the guy just doesn't listen in the end, that's in contradiction with their interpretation that the author wrote him as a dumbass who sucked on purpose. The intent of the author is in contradiction with their interpretation. I happen to agree with them that that scene makes Yoda look like an oblivious idiot. The intent was, according to Lucas, not to make him look like an oblivious idiot; therefore, if he comes off that way to you, it's because the film failed at what it was trying to do.
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Oct 7, 2016 11:58
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Cnut the Great posted:Of course it's a significant theme. The debasement and abuse of droids, both verbal and physical, is pervasive throughout the entire series. The only way you could deny that this is a significant theme is if you deny that droids are supposed to be people to be sympathized with in the first place. You still haven't answered my question on the specifics of if George Lucas broke into your house and took a huge dump in your sleeping mouth against your will, for what duration you'd pretend to resist gargling his briny, membrane-covered logs before you won the victory over yourself and became his anime toilet slave. Stop dodging lest I be forced to Declare Victory Goon Sir.
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Oct 7, 2016 11:59
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Fanboys are the worst fanatical cult idiots on the planet and I guess we should all just be thrilled that Lucas hasn't told them that R2D2 would want them to suicide bomb the white slavers in Anaheim
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Oct 7, 2016 12:03
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Tezzor, do you like any movies which have been widely critically panned?
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Oct 7, 2016 12:05
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Vegg220 posted:Hey, where is the cavalcade of pedants going to tear into this dude for misusing the word "objectively"? Oh, that only occurs to people who don't agree with the clowncar consensus? Odd... What? quote:The Jedi were being corrupted by being in the war. This makes them hypocrites. How does it make them hypocrites? I guess because they preach peace but are in a war. But they didn't want to be in a war, don't like being in a war and are trying to end it as fast as they can. If you do a thing despite saying that it's wrong to do a thing, that makes you a hypocrite. That's what the word means. Many hypocrites have internal misgivings about their actions and as a result put forth specious arguments in an attempt to self-justify them. This is basic aspect of human behavior, and hypocrisy specifically. Your point is an unequivocally stupid one. quote:Non-interference in the war doesn't even make sense in its own universe; the war is being deliberately started by both sides and will occur irrespective of the Jedis' actions, except Yoda not Sending In The Clones means that all the Jedi except him die and Luke and Leia are never born. But causality and reason aside let's say it's true. You're going off into the fields here and arguing about stuff that isn't even relevant. No one cares whether you think the Iraq war was justified. quote:They're hypocrites in this fashion for being in a war and are being Corrupted. So uh what about the previous 60% of the series, because the war starts in the back half of the third act of the second movie. What's the excuse for their lovely stupid behavior prior to that? The entire trilogy is about events surrounding the run-up to and including the Clone War. The Jedi's actions regarding these events are wrongheaded and become increasingly hypocritical as the series goes on. To point out that official hostilities do not begin until the third act of Episode II is not even remotely relevant here. I don't believe you are arguing in good faith here. quote:And they're still not hypocrites in that they all have secret wives but won't let Anakin have one! That's kind of what ultimately matters, isn't it? What?
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Oct 7, 2016 12:15
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Martman posted:Tezzor, do you like any movies which have been widely critically panned? While it was not widely critically panned, to keep the topic on Star Wars, The Force Awakens has gotten a lot of criticism especially on the internet for being unoriginal and too similar to A New Hope. I agree with those criticisms and feel that these problems are to the detriment to the movie, but still enjoy it a lot on the strength of its writing, directing, characterization, acting and humor. Basically it was a lame, safe idea executed very well. My response to this criticism is not to say "Abrams intentionally made the story very similar" as though that changed anything, because that's trivial even though it's actually true and I could substantiate that far better than any of these tools could substantiate "Lucas intentionally made the characters suck."
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Oct 7, 2016 12:15
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Vegg220 posted:You still haven't answered my question on the specifics of if George Lucas broke into your house and took a huge dump in your sleeping mouth against your will, for what duration you'd pretend to resist gargling his briny, membrane-covered logs before you won the victory over yourself and became his anime toilet slave. Stop dodging lest I be forced to Declare Victory Goon Sir. Yes, he did, right after I got done rubbing my dick against the dangling sack of fat hanging off his neck. Is this what being owned feels like, person who is clearly way more unhinged, spite-filled, and weird than I could ever hope to be?
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Oct 7, 2016 12:20
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Cnut the Great posted:1. If you do a thing despite saying that it's wrong to do a thing, that makes you a hypocrite. That's what the word means. Many hypocrites have internal misgivings about their actions and as a result put forth specious arguments in an attempt to self-justify them. This is basic aspect of human behavior, and hypocrisy specifically. Your point is an unequivocally stupid one. 1. Saying you're in favor of peace but fighting in a war is not axiomatically hypocrisy. It's a philosophical question reaching back to at least Ancient Greece but I'm glad you've managed to resolve it by analyzing the cartoon robots in the farting camel movie 2. I sincerely love how insufferably smug you idiots are about the farting camel movie. The Iraq war, by the way, didn't happen because both sides were controlled by Dracula who was manipulating it to happen no matter what anyone did. The point that even if the Jedi hadn't gotten involved the war still would have happened and our main characters would have died by the internal logic of the movie is extremely relevant to the morality of that action 3. You can't answer the question of how fighting in a war makes them hypocrites for stuff they did previously and therefore just wave vaguely at hypocrisy you don't delineate. Okay. 4. Their alleged hypocrisy one way or another about fighting in a war isn't relevant to the motivations of Anakin. If they all had secret wives too and were trying to keep him from having one that would be actual hypocrisy and if he found this out it would be relevant to his turning to the dark side. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 7, 2016 12:27
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Vegg220 posted:1. Saying you're in favor of peace but fighting in a war is not axiomatically hypocrisy. It's a philosophical question reaching back at least Ancient Greece but I'm glad you've managed to resolve it by analyzing the cartoon robots in the farting camel movie You disagree with the director about the morality of aggressive war, then. quote:2. I sincerely love how insufferably smug you idiots are about the farting camel movie. The Iraq war, by the way, didn't happen because both sides were controlled by Dracula who was manipulating it to happen no matter what anyone did No, the Iraq war happened because Saddam Hussein was a dangerous man who was oppressing his people. Fighting in the war as a pacifist ideologically opposed to aggressive wars therefore would not be hypocrisy, since a neocon could construct an argument justifying it. All according to you, of course. quote:3. You can't answer the question of how fighting in a war makes them hypocrites for stuff they did previously and therefore just wave vaguely at hypocrisy you don't delineate. Okay. They are hypocrites for saying peace is good and violence is bad while simultaneously acting as generals in an aggressive war. I have actually stated this very clearly, multiple times. quote:4. Their alleged hypocrisy one way or another about fighting in a war isn't relevant to the motivations of Anakin. If they all had secret wives too and were trying to keep him from having one that would be actual hypocrisy and if he found this out it would be relevant to his turning to the dark side. Anakin is motivated by his belief that the Jedi are hypocrites who are holding him back not out of genuine concern about his dedication to Jedi precepts, but simply because they are afraid of his potential and want more power for themselves. The fact that they are blatantly acting like hypocrites and violating core Jedi precepts themselves by running around fighting wars and trying to assassinate people would tend to support Palpatine's assertion that they are hypocrites, which would lend credence in Anakin's mind to everything else he says about them. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 12:42
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IronicDongz posted:I have literally never seen a single person in my goddamn life ever so much as imply that predjudice against robots is a significant theme in star wars That's because it's not prejudice against robots. It's prejudice against people.
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Oct 7, 2016 13:16
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Freakazoid_ posted:What a coincidence, Lucas also said droids may appear alive but they're just programs. This is from way back but that doesn't mean they're not sentient. It just means they're not life forms. Lucas clearly believes there's something inherently precious and special about organic, evolved life that's worth preserving. What exactly that something is might not be able to be put into scientific terms, but it's something a lot of people feel. That doesn't mean hypothetical technological intelligences aren't worthy of rights or respect. But on a certain level they'll be something inherently different than we are. And some would argue that it would be sad if they ever ended up completely replacing us. I've pointed this out before but it isn't really a slight on droids to say that, as programs, they can't connect to a biological life-force. After all, on the other side of the coin, human brains can't interpret EM signals or hook up to information networks--not without asking a program for help. Perhaps, organic brains and computer programs are simply meant to exist in a *gasp* symbiotic relationship with each other. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 13:18
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Is there a BYOB version of this thread so I don't have to read all this pseudo intellectual...poodoo? Putting Cnut on my ignore list 2 years ago doesn't seem to be stemming the tide of excessive try-hard verbiage anymore. You guys really know how to sap the fun out of a loving PG movie series. If I wanted to enrich myself in the history of slavery I'm gonna read about 40 acres and a mule during the reconstruction era on real-life planet earth, not watch the wanderings of an English mime man in a gold suit with blue-screen escape pod doors strewn everywhere.
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Oct 7, 2016 13:57
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If you don't like talking about movies you know what to do.
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Oct 7, 2016 14:03
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You could always start a Star Wars thread in a different subforum. Or just not read this one if it pains you so.
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Oct 7, 2016 14:20
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Is there a BYOB version of this thread so I don't have to read all this pseudo intellectual...poodoo? Putting Cnut on my ignore list 2 years ago doesn't seem to be stemming the tide of excessive try-hard verbiage anymore. You guys really know how to sap the fun out of a loving PG movie series. If I wanted to enrich myself in the history of slavery I'm gonna read about 40 acres and a mule during the reconstruction era on real-life planet earth, not watch the wanderings of an English mime man in a gold suit with blue-screen escape pod doors strewn everywhere. Lets imagine that this is your ideal version of a Star Wars discussion thread. What would you like to discuss about Star Wars?
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Oct 7, 2016 14:21
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Basebf555 posted:Lets imagine that this is your ideal version of a Star Wars discussion thread. What would you like to discuss about Star Wars? The fun parts.
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Oct 7, 2016 14:48
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Is there a BYOB version of this thread so I don't have to read all this pseudo intellectual...poodoo? Putting Cnut on my ignore list 2 years ago doesn't seem to be stemming the tide of excessive try-hard verbiage anymore. You guys really know how to sap the fun out of a loving PG movie series. If I wanted to enrich myself in the history of slavery I'm gonna read about 40 acres and a mule during the reconstruction era on real-life planet earth, not watch the wanderings of an English mime man in a gold suit with blue-screen escape pod doors strewn everywhere. haha the ships shoot lasers PEW PEW! really tho you're open to start a conversation of your own. here i'll help: who is your favorite star war guy and why? mine is probably obi-wan
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Oct 7, 2016 14:53
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:The fun parts. This may surprise you to know, but different people find different things fun. We're discussing things we find fun, you could give it a shot too.
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Oct 7, 2016 14:53
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:The fun parts. Are you going to attempt to actually discuss the parts that you consider fun, or just continue to complain?
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Oct 7, 2016 14:54
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Waffles Inc. posted:haha the ships shoot lasers PEW PEW! Mine is probably Dack. Or is it spelled...Dak?!
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Oct 7, 2016 15:00
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My favorite as a kid was Salacious Crumb, mostly because I loved saying the name and when I was 8 I thought it was cool to know the names of really obscure characters.
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Oct 7, 2016 15:01
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Mine is probably Dack. Or is it spelled...Dak?! cool cool you good now or?
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Oct 7, 2016 15:10
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My favorite character is C-3PO, but I'm not allowed to say why.
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Oct 7, 2016 15:28
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Waffles Inc. posted:haha the ships shoot lasers PEW PEW! Mine is Leia. I also have a low tolerance for dumb and annoying men. I'm not referring to you, Waffles, Inc. just to be clear 
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Oct 7, 2016 15:39
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I like Han Solo because he is a beloved rogue, like John Barrymore. He does roguelike things like shoot first and not second or third. I was sad when that rogue died, because of how beloved he was.
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Oct 7, 2016 15:49
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Luke is the best.
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Oct 7, 2016 15:52
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Zoran posted:Luke is the best. True story I went as Luke from ROTJ for Halloween one year and literally everyone except my gay neighbors thought I was Darth Vader. I even had a green toy lightsaber and one black glove MJ-style.
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Oct 7, 2016 16:00
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Waffles Inc. posted:who is your favorite star war guy and why? mine is probably obi-wan I like Jar Jar a lot. He's funny and gets the job done.
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Oct 7, 2016 16:04
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My favorite characters is THE FORCE
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Oct 7, 2016 16:07
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I like chopper. He is a cool and good person.
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Oct 7, 2016 16:16
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Y'all, it don't get much better than Max Rebo.
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Oct 7, 2016 16:18
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I always thought Lando was cool.
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Oct 7, 2016 16:19
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