|
Let's put it this way: if normal business hours are 9-5, you're an rear end in a top hat if you roll in at noon and work until 8 because you're intentionally restricting your team from meeting for 3 hours during every workday. Going against the flow is pretty much the antithesis of teamwork and if you're the only guy who works a shifted, late schedule you're the problem. Go to bed earlier and wake up earlier. You're an adult. It's not that hard.
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 17:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 17:16 |
|
|
sarehu posted:Don't make excuses. People's best work is after they wake up, if you think otherwise you're deluding yourself. Not for everybody, especially if you have a sleeping disorder. Which I do. I also have a bizarre, inconsistent sleep schedule that another health issue I have can ravage. Combined with the fact that I've just always naturally felt more aware and active later in the day you get somebody who is foggy and sluggish early in the day. All of the best code I've written was either in the evening or at night. Some people just really suck at mornings.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 18:37
|
|
|
Blinkz0rz posted:It's not that hard. It actually is for some people.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 18:38
|
|
|
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronotype
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 18:56
|
|
|
Blinkz0rz posted:Let's put it this way: if normal business hours are 9-5, you're an rear end in a top hat if you roll in at noon and work until 8 because you're intentionally restricting your team from meeting for 3 hours during every workday. if normal business hours are 9-5, you're an rear end in a top hat if you roll in at 8 and work until 4 because you're intentionally restricting your team from meeting for 1 hour during every workday.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 19:00
|
|
|
Analytic Engine posted:if normal business hours are 9-5, you're an rear end in a top hat if you roll in at 8 and work until 4 because you're intentionally restricting your team from meeting for 1 hour during every workday. Counterpoint: People who schedule 4:00 meetings are assholes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 19:15
|
|
|
Gounads posted:Counterpoint: People who schedule
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 19:21
|
|
|
Blinkz0rz posted:Let's put it this way: if normal business hours are 9-5, you're an rear end in a top hat if you roll in at noon and work until 8 because you're intentionally restricting your team from meeting for 3 hours during every workday. I agree. People who don't conform to corporate norms are assholes and/or children who need to fall in line.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 19:39
|
|
|
The Newbie Programming Interviews thread: Argue about sleep schedules and interfaces! Content: I had 5 phone screens in the last two days. For other searchers, just keep spamming those resumes. You'll get something through eventually!
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 19:42
|
|
|
Analytic Engine posted:if normal business hours are 9-5, you're an rear end in a top hat if you roll in at 8 and work until 4 because you're intentionally restricting your team from meeting for 1 hour during every workday. This is why working hours are written policy. Like if people can show up between 7 and 9 and leave between 3 and 5 you can schedule meetings between 9 and 3 and people can actually rely on getting work done for 2 hours.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 19:47
|
|
|
fantastic in plastic posted:In terms of curriculum, it's standard bootcamp fare with a little bit of extra theory thrown in. A lot of companies use "CS fundamentals" questions in their interviews, and my impression is that the "theory" part of bloc.io was designed with those examples in mind. "A bit more of a web developer flavor" is a major understatement - the technologies they propose to teach you are all web dev stuff. Ah, this is good to know. I knew it was too web developer-y, but I haven't seen any other good ones that let you still work full time. I'm gonna be doing the 6 month track for that reason, just because I still have to pay the bills. I still feel good about it but this is the kind of info I wanted! Shirec fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Oct 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
Analytic Engine posted:if normal business hours are 9-5, you're an rear end in a top hat if you roll in at 8 and work until 4 because you're intentionally restricting your team from meeting for 1 hour during every workday. Which is why the whole concept of core hours exists. If the hours are 10-4 and you schedule a meeting outside of 10-4 you're being an rear end in a top hat. Which is where we started from, that there are companies out there with sane core hours that allow people to shift early or late based upon individual preference and at the better ones there's not this debate about lazyness.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 20:58
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:This is why working hours are written policy. Like if people can show up between 7 and 9 and leave between 3 and 5 you can schedule meetings between 9 and 3 and people can actually rely on getting work done for 2 hours. Yeah, and nothing 11-1 because of varying lunch schedules. "But then we only have half the day for meetings! How will you coders get anything done?!" Edit: Che Delilas said the same thing Analytic Engine fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Oct 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 21:00
|
|
|
Also I was quoting that 3-hours late guy wrt to the label "rear end in a top hat". At our company we just look at the Outlook schedules and book things ahead of time
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 21:02
|
|
|
Analytic Engine posted:Yeah, and nothing 11-1 because of varying lunch schedules. We have a weekly meeting booked 12:00-14:00 Fridays. By which I mean I put that in our diary because that's when we go to the pub and we don't want anybody booking nasty clashes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 21:54
|
|
|
Trapick posted:Counter-counterpoint. that's not a counterpoint that's a superset
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 21:56
|
|
|
Working 1-9 actually makes sense for two reasons. 1. You avoid your coworkers for 4 hours, so you can get some work done. 2. It's really just one hour, because you can leave early once everybody else is gone.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 21:57
|
|
|
Or if you're really pro at working, you don't really count hours, you just make a good impression that indicates you're skilled and quick at getting your tasks done, and no one will question your hours.  Consider it one of the perks of having a skill that no one outside of the field has a clue about, since it's so technical. I've only ever had one boss who could write code himself.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 22:27
|
|
|
Analytic Engine posted:Also I was quoting that 3-hours late guy wrt to the label "rear end in a top hat". At our company we just look at the Outlook schedules and book things ahead of time Sure that's great except if you're fighting fires and need to meet that day. This thread has a really bad attitude about working and it kind of blows my mind. Like, there's a LOT wrong with how most companies in this country work but I didn't think "come in on time" was a controversial statement.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 22:42
|
|
|
Blinkz0rz posted:Like, there's a LOT wrong with how most companies in this country work but I didn't think "come in on time" was a controversial statement. The point is that "on time" is extremely relative, and depends on the team/company.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 22:47
|
|
|
Blinkz0rz posted:Sure that's great except if you're fighting fires and need to meet that day. Seems like more fires occur after standard work hours then at 8:00 AM. Who do you think is available to handle those emergencies?
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 22:57
|
|
|
Blinkz0rz posted:Sure that's great except if you're fighting fires and need to meet that day. I think mostly we have a bad attitude for having a contract exchange X dollars for 40 hours a week, and one side fully expecting that to mean X dollars for 60 hours a week because otherwise you have a "really bad attitude about working"
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 23:09
|
|
|
Once nice perk of working for a DoD contractor is never being allowed to work more than 40 hours
Fellatio del Toro fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Oct 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 23:26
|
|
|
Hughlander posted:I think mostly we have a bad attitude for having a contract exchange X dollars for 40 hours a week, and one side fully expecting that to mean X dollars for 60 hours a week because otherwise you have a "really bad attitude about working" 100% agreed, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about having the courtesy to be at work during normal business hours and to me that doesn't feel like a huge stretch.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 23:39
|
|
|
sarehu posted:Don't make excuses. People's best work is after they wake up, if you think otherwise you're deluding yourself. Science says otherwise. But really, it's only science.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 23:50
|
|
|
Pilsner posted:Or if you're really pro at working, you don't really count hours, you just make a good impression that indicates you're skilled and quick at getting your tasks done, and no one will question your hours. On the other hand, you could be really good at what you do and they still treat you like you're lazy because they can't comprehend what you do or how everything would fall apart if you quit. And then you quit.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2016 00:23
|
|
|
This is a good throwdown with strong arguments on both sides, but we're actually in the Newbie thread and should be discussing it in Oldie Programmers. I like arguing and admit that I wanted to get in a fight, but people looking for their first job are better off sucking it up and changing their sleep schedules to the office norm (be that early or late). I hated getting up before 10 but set my alarm for 7:30 when I got that first big-break job. Newbie night owls: it's true that a lot of "cool" startups will allow late starts, but they'll expect an unstated commitment of 60 hours like Hughlander said. This also happens in game development and PhD programs where you're expected to live-to-work. Otoh, boring companies like mine have a lot of family men/women so we don't go beyond 5:30 or 6:00. But most people get in at 8:30 or 9:00 and actually do 40 hours of sustained work, so it can feel weird if you rock the 20-something night person life. It's complicated but at least we have a little flexibility as an industry and can have fights like this. Edit: Anyone have advice for newbie early-birds? Their brains are foreign to us latenighters Analytic Engine fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Oct 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2016 00:49
|
|
|
Seems I started quite the little sidetrack. I didn't ask about non standard shifts because I can't cope with business hours. I just can't cope with 5 day work weeks, hah. I'm used to working 4 days and squeezing my 36-40 into them. But I'll probably have to buckle down and take what I can get.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2016 02:05
|
|
|
Kibbles n Shits posted:Seems I started quite the little sidetrack. I didn't ask about non standard shifts because I can't cope with business hours. I just can't cope with 5 day work weeks, hah. I'm used to working 4 days and squeezing my 36-40 into them. But I'll probably have to buckle down and take what I can get. Five day weeks aren't so bad. It's six day weeks that loving suck. But do feel free to ask; the worst a place can do is say "no." Aside from that some places do have a policy of "we want 40 hours a week. You can do that in four days if you want whatever who cares." Really, it depends on the company.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2016 02:55
|
|
|
I think I said this before, but I can't find it so I'll say it again. If you want to find a job that allows working less than five days a week then you need to be very specific when asking. If you ask about flexible hours or alternate schedules, then that will most likely be interpreted as coming in early, late, allowances for kids, etc while still working five days. It may also be manager specific so I would try and ask them rather than HR. That is all pretty common, working 4/10, 9/80, or whatever is significantly less so. You can definitely still find jobs that allow it though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2016 03:34
|
|
|
Does anyone have a particular recommendation for a Javascript tutorial? I don't really retain anything from Codecademy, I think I need something more like Udacity with a video. I've just started that one, but is there another one someone would recommend instead? It's got to be free, I'm unemployed and completely broke right now.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2016 20:13
|
|
|
22 Eargesplitten posted:Does anyone have a particular recommendation for a Javascript tutorial? I don't really retain anything from Codecademy, I think I need something more like Udacity with a video. I've just started that one, but is there another one someone would recommend instead? It's got to be free, I'm unemployed and completely broke right now. The book java script: The Good Parts is only a couple hundred pages and covers everything you'll want to know. But that costs money- I recommend the You Don't Know JS series as well, and that's free on github. But for tutorials, look up Learn You Node and the other JS Learn You tutorials- those actually have you code JS and run through a series of tutorials through the command line.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2016 21:03
|
|
|
So I'm feeling extremely demoralized at this point. I starting my senior year at a no-name state school that only attracts a handful of low-quality tech companies to its career fair. I've gotten a handful of replies to my online applications thanks to having a decent resume, but they all begin with "take this HackerRank-style coding test in 1-2 hours." Not only do I perform poorly, but I come away feeling like I'm basically wasting my time working on anything besides CTCI and HackerRank. I get the importance of the fundamentals these types of questions demonstrate, but I'm just not good at them, and they're wasting time I don't have. I'm spending about 60 hours a week on homework/extracurricular CS projects and can't find to time to brush up on this stuff. I've got an internship, a couple small side projects, and I'm on a pretty cool student team for a convention competition related to what I want to do in industry, which I guess is why my resume makes it past filters at all. Am I really screwing myself by not spending an inordinate amount of time each week on HackerRank? Seems like my prospect at having a job lined up by next semester is rather grim.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2016 22:38
|
|
|
HackerRank is a platform. Is your issue with the platform or the problems and if it's the second what type of problems?
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2016 23:26
|
|
|
Yea, it's not the platform that's the problem, HackerRank/Leetcode/every other puzzle-coding website is essentially the same. I'm just frustrated that at this point in my education, any effort I put into my CS classes or side projects counts for bupkis other than data structures-related material, which was three semesters ago. I can reason through complexity, and might be able to come up with a bespoke BST, but doing so in a satisfactory time frame is beyond my ability without expending a significant amount of time practicing solving arbitrary problems. I'd much rather be working on actual side projects or putting my effort towards, for example, my Object Oriented Design course.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 00:01
|
|
|
Smugworth posted:Yea, it's not the platform that's the problem, HackerRank/Leetcode/every other puzzle-coding website is essentially the same. I'm just frustrated that at this point in my education, any effort I put into my CS classes or side projects counts for bupkis other than data structures-related material, which was three semesters ago. I can reason through complexity, and might be able to come up with a bespoke BST, but doing so in a satisfactory time frame is beyond my ability without expending a significant amount of time practicing solving arbitrary problems. I'd much rather be working on actual side projects or putting my effort towards, for example, my Object Oriented Design course. I would keep doing what you're doing and focusing on your competition and projects. Jobs tend to come easiest through networking, and between your competition and internship you'll likely be in fairly good shape if you apply your time well and get to know people there. A referral is worth oodles more than any hackerrank coding challenge.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 00:06
|
|
|
Sarcophallus posted:A referral is worth oodles more than any hackerrank coding challenge. I don't entirely agree with this, especially for entry-level positions. A referral is definitely better than applying via a website in terms of getting to the interview stage. But I've never seen a case where a person with no experience was hired despite doing poorly on the coding challenge based on a referral. Normally we would spend a little extra time reviewing their performance and the referrer might get some useful feedback to pass on, but that's it. Once you're more senior, things change of course. At a certain level, word of mouth alone is enough to get you an offer. But I wouldn't count on that coming straight out of college.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 00:19
|
|
|
Smugworth posted:So I'm feeling extremely demoralized at this point. If you think you would like working at the company you're interning with I would suggest focusing on impressing them. We hire about half our interns and they get to skip the normal hiring tests. Other companies are different of course. Failing that I've never gotten a job without going through at least one test like that. I understand your frustration to some extent. I've been programming professionally for 6 years and looking around for job openings I'm running into the same problem you are of needing to be able to pass tests that require skills I haven't been improving on a daily basis. I'm spending all my nights and weekends practicing this stuff because I would really love to work in a couple of the positions I've applied to. If your resume is already getting you a foot in the door but you're stumbling on these tests, I suggest dropping most of your side projects except for the competition and practicing for the tests. Look at it like optimizing a program. If you want to make a program run faster, you speed up the bottlenecks; not the parts that are already going well. Companies are interested in you and they should be. I know I'd be interested in having a new hire who has spent as much of his free time coding as you have in my team. So now you need to show the recruiters that you can do what they want you to be able to do. And these skills of being able to write efficient programs and think through problems well enough to be able to arrive at a good solution are important. There's one guy I work with currently who I dread having touch the code for our projects. He always implements the first approach he thinks up and won't think through a problem. Invariably this results in hacky code that works for 90% of the cases but the other 10% of the cases that fail result in months of bug fixes. It's easy to find solutions that look right or are good enough to pass a single test case. It's very, very hard to find solutions that are right and even harder to implement them correctly.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 02:25
|
|
|
Smugworth posted:Yea, it's not the platform that's the problem, HackerRank/Leetcode/every other puzzle-coding website is essentially the same. I'm just frustrated that at this point in my education, any effort I put into my CS classes or side projects counts for bupkis other than data structures-related material, which was three semesters ago. I can reason through complexity, and might be able to come up with a bespoke BST, but doing so in a satisfactory time frame is beyond my ability without expending a significant amount of time practicing solving arbitrary problems. I'd much rather be working on actual side projects or putting my effort towards, for example, my Object Oriented Design course. You're putting way way way too much pressure on yourself. Most seniors don't even start looking for a job until their last semester with a bunch not even starting until after they graduate. Stay focused on your studies and graduating and just put in whatever time to job hunting that you can. Hell I'd even de-prioritize it below just having fun and enjoying your last year "in the bubble" before you get thrown into the real world. You already have an internship. You're doing fine.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 03:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 17:16 |
|
|
Smugworth posted:Yea, it's not the platform that's the problem, HackerRank/Leetcode/every other puzzle-coding website is essentially the same. I'm just frustrated that at this point in my education, any effort I put into my CS classes or side projects counts for bupkis other than data structures-related material, which was three semesters ago. I can reason through complexity, and might be able to come up with a bespoke BST, but doing so in a satisfactory time frame is beyond my ability without expending a significant amount of time practicing solving arbitrary problems. I'd much rather be working on actual side projects or putting my effort towards, for example, my Object Oriented Design course. Emphasis mine, you are incorrect about this statement. This poo poo most certainly does count for something, especially side projects (which indicates both that you can create things outside of rigidly defined exercises that you find in academia, and that you are interested in doing so). You are going to be an entry level candidate when you apply for jobs. You will be competing with people who have had the same kinds of experiences you've had (Made one web site for their senior capstone, took Data Structures two and a half years ago and barely remembers any of it, programmed an iOS app or two for fun, etc). Reasonable companies are aware of the limitations of fresh graduates, and will tailor their interviews accordingly. If I were interviewing you, I'd more than anything want to see mention of your side project work, preferably with a link to the code. I want this so I can look at your projects, how they work, and how they are coded, so that I can discuss that stuff with you in the interview. If you can give me some details about how you did a thing, or how you might do a thing better, and you seem excited or at least interested in it while you're talking about it, that's major points from me. Also everything Necc0 said. You're making way too much of this, really try and relax a bit. If you want more  , click on the question mark under my name in this thread; look for the biggest ones. People with confidence issues come in here regularly, and it's always the same "I'm not ready" anxiety.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 04:13
|
|