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catlord posted:Jaime is Blue Beetle. I think I've also seen him complain about Miles Morales and maybe Kamala? Legacy characters. I have never complained about miles or Kamala.
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Oct 7, 2016 11:28
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Equilibrium posted:Yeah, in the same way Ray Terrill (1992) and Ray Terrill (2015) are different characters. No it isn't. Kathy Kane and Kate Kane are two different characters. Kate Kane is Batwoman and Kathy works for Spyral now (she was a different Batwoman in the old timeline ). Ray Terrill 2017 is the same Ray Terrill from 1992 just with ten years removed by Doc Manhattan. Also the gay Ray in Morrisons Multiversity was an elseworlds version of the character (you know like vampire batman and cowboy Justice league?) and on top of that I'm pretty sure that was Happy Terrill (rays dad in the mainline canon). The fact that I'm seeing a lot of misinformation and confusion goes to show that some people shouldn't even be part of this conversation until they are better informed. Alucard Nacirema fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 11:35
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Alucard Nacirema posted:The fact that I'm seeing a lot of misinformation and confusion goes to show that some people shouldn't even be part of this conversation until they are better informed. https://twitter.com/dril/status/553268372331573248
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Oct 7, 2016 12:19
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Alucard Nacirema posted:Ray Terrill 2017 is the same Ray Terrill from 1992 just with ten years removed by Doc Manhattan. You know Flashpoint didn't stop being a reboot because of the Watchmen retcon. Doc is just somebody else to blame instead of Barry/Pandora/Dan Didio for things coming back changed, younger, not married. Scott Snyder's Zero Year is still this Batman's origin on the other side of Rebirth. e: I guess it's to be seen how things are revealed in the Watchmen War, but DC reboots have always had cause and effect. Psycho Pirate remembering pre-Crisis means that history still technically existed before their new universe. Then on and on through the rest. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 12:24
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Open Marriage Night posted:Wasn't the Ray the last form of long distance communication during Final Crisis? Am I getting him mixed up with that one guy with similar powers who is supposed to be Hal Jordan's cousin? You are mixing him up with Airwave II. 
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Oct 7, 2016 12:26
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This discussion caused me to read over the Ray's Wikipedia page, since prior to this all I knew of thr Ray were a couple of Christopher Priest/Howard Porter issues where Ray looks like a teenager and has sex with Black Canary. Which just seemed problematic. Reading the Wiki page there have been four Ray's. And the second Ray is the one who did all the stuff making the third and fourth Ray seem superfluous. The Wiki did have this paragraph which made me laugh however. quote:Throughout all of this, Ray remained affiliated with Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters as they continued to fight for America against such threats as the Living America, a superhuman prison break and Jester and the Arcadians. Finally, the team was destroyed by the one foe they could not fight - government cutbacks
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Oct 7, 2016 12:32
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Alucard Nacirema posted:The fact that I'm seeing a lot of misinformation and confusion goes to show that some people shouldn't even be part of this conversation until they are better informed. New thread title please. Also, you know this guy is fictional right?
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Oct 7, 2016 12:58
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Teenage Fansub posted:You know Flashpoint didn't stop being a reboot because of the Watchmen retcon. Doc is just somebody else to blame instead of Wally/Pandora/Dan Didio for things coming back changed, younger, not married. Scott Snyder's Zero Year is still this Batman's origin on the other side of Rebirth. Do not put Barry's evil on Wally
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Oct 7, 2016 13:04
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head58 posted:New thread title please. in this climate of unnatural diversity, there's a dearth of heterosexual guys to identify with
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Oct 7, 2016 13:05
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Do not put Barry's evil on Wally D'oh.
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Oct 7, 2016 13:05
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Teenage Fansub posted:D'oh. I think my favorite thing that I hate about the otherwise awesome DCU Rebirth is they somehow spun it as not Barry's fault that he destroyed the world/universe because he was sad about his mom dying. Don't worry, Barry, it was a naked blue man!
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Oct 7, 2016 13:07
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Alucard Nacirema posted:No it isn't. Kathy Kane and Kate Kane are two different characters. Kate Kane is Batwoman and Kathy works for Spyral now (she was a different Batwoman in the old timeline ). hello backwards dracula (backdrac?). I believe when it comes to F-list superheroes DC comics cares about as much for their continuity as the average person does, but lol if you think DC comics has anything nearly as complete or well-organized as a quota for diversity
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Oct 7, 2016 13:11
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Two Tone Shoes posted:I think my favorite thing that I hate about the otherwise awesome DCU Rebirth is they somehow spun it as not Barry's fault that he destroyed the world/universe because he was sad about his mom dying. wasn't there something in Rebirth where he starts blaming himself after remembering forgetting Wally, or am I becoming Reverse Flash and Barry Allen must suffer
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Oct 7, 2016 13:12
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How the meeting to make The Ray, Ray Terrill, homosexual actually went at DC Offices: Writer: "Hey do you mind if we make Ray Terrill gay?" Editor: "Who the gently caress is Ray Terrill"
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Oct 7, 2016 13:12
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Alaois posted:How the meeting to make The Ray, Ray Terrill, homosexual actually went at DC Offices: or maybe "Ray? He's my favorite character on Archer!"
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Oct 7, 2016 13:14
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PenguinKnight posted:wasn't there something in Rebirth where he starts blaming himself after remembering forgetting Wally, or am I becoming Reverse Flash and Barry Allen must suffer They have an offscreen conversation that ends with Barry going "Are you sure it's not my fault?" and Wally's like "Yeah, it's SOMETHING ELSE" then the pan to what is obviously Manhattan on Mars. It just glosses over the fact that Manhattan only did stuff after Barry literally ruined the universe. No one made him do that poo poo. It'd be a funny twist if the universe was going to end up more hosed from Barry's lovely time travel screwing up the end of Flashpoint and Manhattan was just like "Yeah, I tried to fix it but it was pretty hosed up. I got kind of close, sorry guys."
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Oct 7, 2016 13:19
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I swear to gorilla grod, DC, when you finally unveil the triumphant return of Pantha she better not be a queer
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Oct 7, 2016 13:20
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Nuns with Guns posted:I swear to gorilla grod, DC, when you finally unveil the triumphant return of Pantha she better not be a queer whoa whoa whoa, ethnic minority AND queer? You gotta tone the agendarama down, friendo.
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Oct 7, 2016 13:21
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I want to see gay, black Bruce Wayne in the main continuity, just to see the level of internet rage it would generate.
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Oct 7, 2016 14:37
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List of changes American Dracula is okay with: 1) Batwoman (because it's a new character and is leaving the memories of Batgirl alone, but not this bullshit new Batgirl gently caress that) 2) Steel (because it's a new character and leaving the memories of WASPY Clark Kent alone) List of changes American Dracula might be okay with: 1) Kamala Khan (see above) 2) Miles Morales (see above) 3) Just make Martian Manhunter have a black secret ID to fill a quota List of changes American Dracula IS NOT DOWN WITH AT ALL 1) Jaime Reyes, the Affirmative Action Beetle 2) Shade the Teeny Bopper Who Is No Longer Dark or Intellectual Like Some loving Batgirl of Burnside Changing Girl 3) Black Wally West 4) Dan Didio shoving that poo poo character Cyborg down his throat in Justice League 5) Black Firestorm 6) Asian Atom I hope this properly represents your nuanced opinions, American Dracula.
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Oct 7, 2016 15:07
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Alucard Nacirema posted:No it isn't. Kathy Kane and Kate Kane are two different characters. Kate Kane is Batwoman and Kathy works for Spyral now (she was a different Batwoman in the old timeline ). When Ray Terrill 1992 disappeared with the New 52, The Ray was rebooted as Lucien Gates and Ray Terrill was erased from memory ('Happy' is referenced as a golden age hero). This character sucks and no one remembers him. Four years later Ray Terrill is reimagined in Multiversity, people like the character, and they explicitly base the upcoming CW cartoon on Morrison's The Ray. Obviously DC and Orlando feel similarly, so they are basing the upcoming JLA Rebirth's Ray on the same character, and not on whatever characterization you think this D-lister had 7 years ago. They can do this thanks to the power of COMICS. There are no rules here! In comics, anything goes, which is why you can sit here and blame Dan Didio and Jim Lee's editorial failings on Doctor Manhattan with a straight face.
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Oct 7, 2016 15:13
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Can we get a team comic with The Ray, Jaime Reyes, and Ray Palmer working together?
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Oct 7, 2016 15:33
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greatn posted:Can we get a team comic with The Ray, Jaime Reyes, and Ray Palmer working together? Team them up with Red Hood and the Demon and call the whole thing Ray Jay Returns
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Oct 7, 2016 15:52
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Equilibrium posted:Obviously DC and Orlando feel similarly, so they are basing the upcoming JLA Rebirth's Ray on the same character, and not on whatever characterization you think this D-lister had in 1992-1996, between 20 and 24 years ago.
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Oct 7, 2016 17:18
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Okay, which one of you is writing cranky letters to the Sacramento Bee?Ron W. Loutzenhiser, Galt posted:Wonder Woman is not gay
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Oct 7, 2016 18:15
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Mister Mind posted:Okay, which one of you is writing cranky letters to the Sacramento Bee? I can't believe Bob Kane is still alive.
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Oct 7, 2016 18:20
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Wonder Woman was on an island of nothing but women and didn't even know men existed until she was like thirty. She deffo hosed some broads. Suffering saffo.
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Oct 7, 2016 18:26
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Mister Mind posted:Okay, which one of you is writing cranky letters to the Sacramento Bee? Must be American Dracula
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Oct 7, 2016 18:34
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greatn posted:Wonder Woman was on an island of nothing but women and didn't even know men existed until she was like thirty. She deffo hosed some broads. Suffering saffo. The amazons kept sex slaves so she could very well have not hosed some broads.
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Oct 7, 2016 18:39
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Mister Mind posted:Okay, which one of you is writing cranky letters to the Sacramento Bee? Wonder Woman was completely a-sexual until she got a taste for the D thanks to Steve Trevor [citation needed]
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Oct 7, 2016 18:46
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I understand this is how the Ray will come out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdbs3lKEeBE
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Oct 7, 2016 19:03
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My uncle works at Nintendo and he told me this is preview art from the comic
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Oct 7, 2016 19:16
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I agree with your point but Cyborg actually sucks really bad. Mister Mind posted:Okay, which one of you is writing cranky letters to the Sacramento Bee? By corrupting Captain America's nobility this guy means "They made Sam Wilson Captain America and black people scare me!" right?
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Oct 7, 2016 20:20
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They're probably referring to the Hail Hydra thing.
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Oct 7, 2016 21:02
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Equilibrium posted:When Ray Terrill 1992 disappeared with the New 52, The Ray was rebooted as Lucien Gates and Ray Terrill was erased from memory ('Happy' is referenced as a golden age hero). This character sucks and no one remembers him. Four years later Ray Terrill is reimagined in Multiversity, people like the character, and they explicitly base the upcoming CW cartoon on Morrison's The Ray. Obviously DC and Orlando feel similarly, so they are basing the upcoming JLA Rebirth's Ray on the same character, and not on whatever characterization you think this D-lister had 7 years ago.. Except that Ray Terrill wasn't reimagined in Multiversity. That was the original Ray and that specific comic was an elseworlds where the nazis ruled the world and the freedom fighters were composed of members from backgrounds that were being persecuted by the nazis (phantom lady = gypsy, black condor = black, Ray = gay, etc.) it was a one issue thing and the Ray was barely in the the issue at all. It's extremely disingenuous to claim this is Morrisons hot new take on Ray Terrill. If we are using Multiversity as canon then Damian and Chris Kent should be twenty something millennials involved in a love triangle with Lex Luthirs daughter because that's how it was in Multiversity! Edge & Christian posted:Minor clarification. Wrong. Ray has consistently shown up in event books since the 90s, was on both JLA and Justice League Task Force and was a major character in the freedom fighter series from the late 00s to 2010. Don't make it sound like this is some obscure character like Access or some poo poo. Alucard Nacirema fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 21:12
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Alucard Nacirema posted:Wrong. Ray has consistently shown up in event books since the 90s, was on both JLA and Justice League Task Force and was a major character in the freedom fighter series from the late 00s to 2010. Don't make it sound like this is some obscure character like Access or some poo poo. The loving Freedom Fighters are obscure characters! The Ray is literally more obscure than B'wana Beast who has had more widespread publication than he has.
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Oct 7, 2016 21:21
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ImpAtom posted:The loving Freedom Fighters are obscure characters! No he isn't . The Ray was a big character in the 90s he's a favorite of Geoff Johns and Grant Morrison thats why he's always showing up in the big event books. B'wane Beast shows up for a cameo every 20 years and thats it. And my point was correcting that other guy who said Ray Terrill hasnt been used in 20 years when he has appeared consistently through the 00s and 2010s.
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Oct 7, 2016 21:25
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Alucard Nacirema posted:The fact that I'm seeing a lot of misinformation and confusion goes to show that some people shouldn't even be part of this conversation until they are better informed. You're right. I can't believe we're even having this conversation with any idea of the history of the medium and respect for the culture that surrounds them. We'll continue once you have written your ten page paper about representation of LGBT characters in comics, not including citations. Glad you can admit your failings, and until then, mods?
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Oct 7, 2016 21:26
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Alucard Nacirema posted:No he isn't . The Ray was a big character in the 90s he's a favorite of Geoff Johns and Grant Morrison thats why he's always showing up in the big event books. Someone being a favorite character of Grant Morrison doesn't prevent them from being an obscure character. If anything it makes it more likely. Nobody who isn't a die-hard comic fan knows who The Ray is. That's fine. That doesn't make him a bad character but it's true. B'Wana Beast at bare minimum got a series of episodes about him on Brave and the Bold culminating in his death. Someone who doesn't read comics has a chance of knowing who he is. The most The Ray ever got was a small part in a B&B episode where he's barely a character) and cameos in JLU where he literally never has a single line meaning he gets less onscreen time than Vigilante. The Ray is the definition of a C-list character nobody knows about. He shows up in cameos and references and that's about it. That's okay. That's not a bad thing. Being C-list isn't bad but stop trying to pretend like The Ray is this massively recognized and beloved character. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 21:31
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ImpAtom posted:Someone being a favorite character of Grant Morrison doesn't prevent them from being an obscure character. If anything it makes it more likely. In final crisis he was used as a way to communicate with people, he had a tiny part. In JSA he also did not show up that much as he just showed up and then part of the team that was massacred in Crisis on Infinite Earth.
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