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bobkatt013 posted:Have you ever read Impulse? Same team as Champions and its an amazing book. This. Honestly, the guy is talented, and when Impulse was coming out he was in the same pen as guys like Mike Wieringo (Right? I'm not reinventing history here, am I?) Somewhere along the line though, he started taking a hard left when it came to anatomy and composition, putting kineticism above all else, and that really was the death kneel for me. Still, he really didn't start to lose his grip on things until after Cliffhanger's Crimson. I think that's right anyway. I remember Out There being a steep drop off in quality anyway.
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Oct 7, 2016 21:41
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Some of the LGBT comics critics on Twitter (Matt Santori-Griffith, Oliver Sava, Andrew Wheeler), who have criticized Marvel quite harshly (and fairly) about their lackluster LGBT representation, and with whom I usually agree about this sort of thing, are upset that there wasn't a creative team announced and are suggesting that this is only a reaction to DC announcing books like Batwoman. Of course, it's best not to get too hyped with no creative team, but otherwise... so what? If Marvel finally feels that competitive and PR pressure is dictating that they have to launch more LGBT-centric books, how is that a bad thing?
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Oct 7, 2016 21:42
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Barry Convex posted:Of course, it's best not to get too hyped with no creative team, but otherwise... so what? If Marvel finally feels that competitive and PR pressure is dictating that they have to launch more LGBT-centric books, how is that a bad thing? Probably some sort of "right for the wrong reasons" thing, I suppose.
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Oct 7, 2016 21:45
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I'm willing to put a small bet into Gillen/McKelvie teaming up yet again. That looks exactly like McKelvie's art, Gillen seems to be thinning out his workload and its been long enough since he said he's taking a break from Marvel, plus those two are basically behind all of her characterization.
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Oct 7, 2016 21:49
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:I'm willing to put a small bet into Gillen/McKelvie teaming up yet again. That looks exactly like McKelvie's art, Gillen seems to be thinning out his workload and its been long enough since he said he's taking a break from Marvel, plus those two are basically behind all of her characterization. Gillen has stated he's writing one book for Marvel going forward and that's the Star Wars book that's being announced this weekend. The America Chavez series has apparently been in the works for like a year now. They surely have a creative team but just didn't want to announce it yet.
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Oct 7, 2016 21:54
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I'd argue it was America Vasquez that kicked them into action, if it was anything outside of Marvel already planning the book for a while. Are the guys who created America Chavez (the same way Bob Kane 'created' Batman) going to try and ride Marvel's coattails now they have to compete with the real deal?
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Oct 7, 2016 21:55
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ImpAtom posted:Holy poo poo, how has Marvel not already fired him? As far as I understand that is an account of events that paints Peter David in a much better light than what actually happened. He wasn't "telling" the guy to go away, he was yelling at him until he left, and he used the g-slur a bunch of times.
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Oct 7, 2016 22:03
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site posted:I cringed when i read that Finally Woke tweet in champions I love that Viv seemed to be cringing as well. Also loved that she stared at her hand when checking Twitter even though she didn't need to, just so she wouldn't feel left out.
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Oct 7, 2016 22:22
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Ta-Nehisi Coates confirmed at NYCC that he will be staying on Black Panther past the 12 issues he initially agreed to do. Specifically his response to the question of if he wanted to stay on was "Hell yeah!" X-O fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 22:33
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Lurdiak posted:As far as I understand that is an account of events that paints Peter David in a much better light than what actually happened. He wasn't "telling" the guy to go away, he was yelling at him until he left, and he used the g-slur a bunch of times. To be fair, he seemed troubled by his own outburst and apologized at the end. e: link http://panopticblast.tumblr.com/post/151446127869/okay-some-more-detail-on-the-peter-david-is
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Oct 7, 2016 22:52
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Teenage Fansub posted:To be fair, he seemed troubled by his own outburst and apologized at the end. That's probably because everyone was staring at him in dumbfounded silence.
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Oct 7, 2016 22:53
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Better than nothing!
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Oct 7, 2016 22:54
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^^^Not really, no. Like if I said 'NO BECAUSE BLACK PEOPLE ALL MURDER AND RAPE WHITE WOMEN, HERE'S A lovely URBAN LEGEND ABOUT THAT HAPPENING SO SHUT UP ABOUT HOW BLACK PEOPLE ARE SHOWN IN MEDIA' and then later went 'aw gee sorry guys' that doesn't change that that's a really hosed up outburst that says a poo poo ton about the person.Wheat Loaf posted:Probably some sort of "right for the wrong reasons" thing, I suppose. yea the main argument around that (that isn't fuckin crazyballs) is basically 'well if you're just doing this to 'keep up' then why should we think you're going to put any actual effort into this beyond checking a box off in the Diversity Score Card'. It's hardly the worst thing in the world but it's fair to question if this is a story they want to tell or if it's just them trying to fill a quota that a rival has done. BrianWilly posted:The actual Scarlet Witch book has been reasonably good about that stuff but I mean...they obliterated any trace of her Romani identity for the films, which is how the majority of the world engages with Marvel characters, so we can't exactly say there hasn't been some skeevy aggressions towards these characters for a while now. Presumably that's the sort of thing that the fan was asking them about in the first place. Yea kinda important to point out that the 'mainstream' of this stuff has had the Maximoffs near totally whitewashed of any Romani stuff and that led to some...really unpleasant bits in the MCU being the main way a lot of people know them. sexpig by night fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 22:56
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wanda and pietro are weird in the avengers no matter how you feel about that because they had to make up a new backstory for them
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Oct 7, 2016 22:58
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Lurdiak posted:That's probably because everyone was staring at him in dumbfounded silence. About the story with the kid walking on its calves? That was pretty messed up even to read.
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Oct 7, 2016 23:10
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Tatum Girlparts posted:that doesn't change that that's a really hosed up outburst that says a poo poo ton about the person. Of course not. Without seeing any recording of him sobbing out a heartfelt apology or sitting with arms crossed saying "Pft. Sooooorry" while rolling his eyes we can't presume to know where his heart was at the moment. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 23:12
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I bet they're just teasing us with this (beyond the usual bounds of teaser image)and all we're getting from McKelvie is a cover. Also, you drat well should be able to smash holes in reality with those abs.
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Oct 7, 2016 23:49
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I don't want a McKelvie America Chavez book, he draws everyone with the same drat face.
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Oct 8, 2016 00:01
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I think they've straight up said McKelvie's just doing covers and the creative team is TBA, which if the book's been in the works for months is very odd, given that the Rebirth Batwoman clearly wasn't, and DC had a creative team ready to announce. Only thing I can think is it's a straight white dude writing and drawing and they didn't want to deal with criticism.
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Oct 8, 2016 00:10
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Barry Convex posted:are upset that there wasn't a creative team announced and are suggesting that this is only a reaction to DC announcing books like Batwoman. This is the definition of "perfect being the enemy of the good", smells distinctly of some weird conspiracy theory on the level of "Marvel is killing X-Men!!!!", and ignores the sheer length of time it takes for either of the big two to authorize a solo of any sort. It also ignores the fact that America Chavez has gotten a huge push in the past year or so due to Ultimates and A-Force and was a main focus of the NOW! teaser. I just assumed once they were like "we're focusing on our new POC/LGBT heroes more in NOW" that of course she'd get a solo. Like, this dog doesn't loving hunt. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Oct 8, 2016 |
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Oct 8, 2016 00:15
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Well we can confirm who it's not at least https://twitter.com/kierongillen/status/784534984824655872
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Oct 8, 2016 00:27
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Gaz-L posted:I think they've straight up said McKelvie's just doing covers and the creative team is TBA, which if the book's been in the works for months is very odd, given that the Rebirth Batwoman clearly wasn't, and DC had a creative team ready to announce. Only thing I can think is it's a straight white dude writing and drawing and they didn't want to deal with criticism. I agree that the not announcing a team is weird, but I don't think this is a straight up-and-down comparison. Kate Kane's been around and had a solo for the better part of a decade at this point, and the N52 Batwoman Fiasco puts DC in a spot where literally anything they announce in regards to Batwoman has to be done through the optics of "We really have to put our best foot forward on this one or this will develop into a PR nightmare". In comparison, America Chavez has never had a solo, was only popular when Gillen was writing her (that A-Force and Ultimates continued that characterization) on YA which literally only happened a couple of years ago. On top of that, Batwoman's a Bat-Book which means by default it's now a top tier DC product, whereas in direct comparison the America Chavez comic will definitely be more niche than that. Like, DC dealing with Batwoman in Rebirth is just like DC dealing with the vast majority of their new titles, where they basically have to go to the audience hat in hand and promise that their fuckups won't persist. In comparison America Chavez hasn't been hosed up, and indeed has only improved in the last three years.
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Oct 8, 2016 00:28
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drat girl you've been doing crunches in bunches from the looks of it.
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Oct 8, 2016 00:30
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I hope it's Al Ewing on America. I've enjoyed his America Chavez.
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Oct 8, 2016 00:45
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Wanderer posted:I hope it's Al Ewing on America. I've enjoyed his America Chavez. I hope it's Ewing and Rocafort. Not sure what Rocafort is doing besides the Inhumans vs. X-Men.
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Oct 8, 2016 01:24
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:"we're focusing on our new POC/LGBT heroes more in NOW" Marvel has never at any point said that. In fact, I've never seen Alonso even mention LGBT characters unprompted in the context of overall diversity at Marvel until a few months ago (nothing came of that at the time, but I'm guessing that the America book was originally supposed to be announced earlier).
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Oct 8, 2016 02:05
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:This is the definition of "perfect being the enemy of the good", smells distinctly of some weird conspiracy theory on the level of "Marvel is killing X-Men!!!!", and ignores the sheer length of time it takes for either of the big two to authorize a solo of any sort. Complain, and then when you get what you asked for, complain that it's not good enough. But never stop complaining, otherwise they might get complacent. Is I feel the mindset of these people.
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Oct 8, 2016 02:35
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datingvolcanoes posted:This. Honestly, the guy is talented, and when Impulse was coming out he was in the same pen as guys like Mike Wieringo (Right? I'm not reinventing history here, am I?) Ramos was drawing some stuff for Milestone when Ringo was on Flash. Aside from covers Ringo had left Flash before Impulse spun out of it though. Sal Larocca and Carlos Pacheo were drawing the book during the arc where Wally tried to force Bart into being responsible.
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Oct 8, 2016 03:18
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I think Ramos works best when he's drawing teen characters so he's perfect for Champions.
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Oct 8, 2016 03:20
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Onmi posted:Complain, and then when you get what you asked for, complain that it's not good enough. But never stop complaining, otherwise they might get complacent. Is I feel the mindset of these people. Right, because just accepting whatever representation big entertainment conglomerates deign to provide you is smart. It's a process, and particularly with publishers as corporate as Marvel and DC, there are always going to be forces pushing back against whatever doesn't seem "safe." You think anyone on the DC film side is happy with DC Comics for allowing that Rucka interview on Wonder Woman's sexuality?
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Oct 8, 2016 03:23
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Barry Convex posted:Right, because just accepting whatever representation big entertainment conglomerates deign to provide you is smart. The bottom line is... the bottom line is the most important thing in businesses and media conglomerates addressing representation. If not doing so will hurt the bottom line or doing so will increase market share or profits, they'll do it, and no amount of appealing to better natures is likely to be as effective as  .
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Oct 8, 2016 03:28
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Gaz-L posted:The bottom line is... the bottom line is the most important thing in businesses and media conglomerates addressing representation. If not doing so will hurt the bottom line or doing so will increase market share or profits, they'll do it, and no amount of appealing to better natures is likely to be as effective as Absolutely true, but it's a mistake to see that as a separate matter from fans keeping up the pressure. Vocal demand over time makes it possible for publishers to eventually perceive negative financial consequences to ignoring the demand.
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Oct 8, 2016 05:07
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Barry Convex posted:Right, because just accepting whatever representation big entertainment conglomerates deign to provide you is smart. There's a difference between criticism and using a line of logic that is more or less "the perfect is the enemy of the good". Hand out your congrats in the same token that you're decrying failures especially in a situation that is unequivocally a good thing, especially when it's a situation that boils down to a glorified conspiracy theory. Like even taking as faith that America got announced solely because DC did it first, even though that's not what happened, because that's not how pitching a book works, but even assuming that it's true...how is this worthy of criticism? That's how the big two work. They either copy each other or specifically and pointedly don't. That's how the last fifty years of comic books have worked. DC did Crisis on Infinite Earths because a year beforehand Marvel did Secret Wars. Marvel did the Clone Saga because a couple years before DC did Knightfall/Death of Superman. DC doesn't do recap pages because Marvel came up with it. The entire industry is founded on the idea of its two main competitors...competing against each other forcing innovation. This is how that's always worked. Decrying that Marvel's suddenly doing it about LGBT representation ignores the entire history of the medium. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Oct 8, 2016 |
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Oct 8, 2016 05:23
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:There's a difference between criticism and using a line of logic that is more or less "the perfect is the enemy of the good". Hand out your congrats in the same token that you're decrying failures especially in a situation that is unequivocally a good thing, especially when it's a situation that boils down to a glorified conspiracy theory. you're not 100% but is anyone really reacting that badly? Most of the commentary I've seen has been more 'ok but just the cover tells us nothing, but yea looks decent' and some general kinda comic talk that ANY announcement like this would get. Why is it suddenly too much complaining when there's the element of minorities wanting to avoid tokenism in their representation?
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Oct 8, 2016 05:34
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Only thing I care about is the opinion of my gay latina friend, and she's over the moon about the idea of this book. America is the best name possible.
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Oct 8, 2016 05:40
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Tatum Girlparts posted:yea the main argument around that (that isn't fuckin crazyballs) is basically 'well if you're just doing this to 'keep up' then why should we think you're going to put any actual effort into this beyond checking a box off in the Diversity Score Card'. It's hardly the worst thing in the world but it's fair to question if this is a story they want to tell or if it's just them trying to fill a quota that a rival has done. Personally, I'be never thought it really matters why someone is / does something right just so long as they are / are doing right.
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Oct 8, 2016 05:56
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One should be concerned with doing good, not being good.
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Oct 8, 2016 05:59
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If somebody said, "I'm not voting for Donald Trump because he is against free trade," then added, "And I suppose he's a racist but I don't really care about that," surely it only really matters that they're not voting for Donald Trump, and not why they're doing it.
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Oct 8, 2016 06:01
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Wheat Loaf posted:Personally, I'be never thought it really matters why someone is / does something right just so long as they are / are doing right. I mean yea if we're ranking things obviously I'd rather have someone do something good for a 'bad' reason than someone do something bad outright. But in the media representation issues are kinda nuanced, so yea it is very possible to mess up with the absolute best intents. Like, with the voting comparison, you can't really 'mess up' your vote. You pick one or the other, even if you have an absolutely stupid reason, if you're voting against the weirdo white nationalists you're probably doin ok with voting. Media stuff is more complex than that, and that's why people in communities affected by this stuff should hold creators to standards, even if they're on our side. Like I said I'm not really seeing the horrible no good terrible bad reaction to this anywhere, I'm mainly seeing a lot of pretty normal 'yea, nice cover, hope she's not just some token character' which...isn't a bad reaction? No one seems to be jumping on anyone, just disappointed that the grand reveal is just a cover rather than talk about the team and plans and all that some other ones got.
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Oct 8, 2016 06:23
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I can't remember the chronology of the Red Wolf series announcement vs when the creative team was announced, but Marvel have put a creator who people do not want to support onto a book with a 'diverse' character before, so that probably accounts for some wariness, alongside the usual issues with communication from Marvel (read: Axel Alonso the Korean guy by marriage who is most assuredly not a SJW*) re: Hercules, Iceman's coming out and Angela fairly recently for a character who's especially important to LGBTQ and/or Latina people. * Full quote in this Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/abrahamjoseph/status/784420753361997824
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Oct 8, 2016 12:49
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