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SonicRulez posted:I mean I'm all for Human Torch being a black dude and all that, because I see no issue with it, but it still seems like a weird complaint to have in this particular situation. It's an adaptation. You know what you are signing up for. There have been Iron Fist stories for a while now. I would think you know going in that Danny is a white dude who knows martial arts. I dunno, it reminds me of a friend of mine complaining about the blaxpoitation elements in Luke Cage. It's Luke Cage, you should've known what was up from the jump. I guess if the point being made is "Yes, I acknowledge that this is always what it was gonna be and I'm upset about it" then that point is super valid. It just seems a little mean-spirited to any other discussion that may happen. If you know you don't like the very concept of Iron Fist, maybe when you see it's being adapted, you just...don't bother engaging? This conversation makes it seem like I should feel like a racist prick for wanting to see glowy ninja fighting. Guess that's my problem. What would be specifically lost from the character if his skin color were different? What about his being white would be impossible to pull off if he weren't white? Luke Cage's ethnicity is baked into his character and story. Is it the same for Iron Fist? I am legitimately asking. Human Torch is a great example of a character who can be heavily altered with no real repercussion to the story. Him being a white blonde dude was never a part of who he was. It is kind of like how there were complaints when it was revealed that MJ might not be white in the new Spider-Man film. Meanwhile, I would argue, someone like Steve Rogers probably makes more sense to be white, given the where and when of his story. If you changed that, you would kind of have to change his story a bit, unless you were just going to be lazy and "colorblind" and pretend racism didn't exist back then, which imo is pretty harmful in of itself. But Steve Rogers/Captain America is a lot more famous than Iron Fist. Does Iron Fist have similar baked in ethnic roots to his character? Or is he a generic white dude, like so many other characters? Because if he is just a generic white dude, then IMHO, there is no argument for saying he should be expected to stay white in every adaptation ever, especially when precedent has been set for doing opposite.
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Oct 9, 2016 19:52
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Iron Fist does have an outsider element baked into his origin. So he didn't have to be white, but I'd argue he probably did have to be American, otherwise you're massively overhauling the story. Which isn't even necessarily a bad thing, but has been pretty established that Marvel Studios and ABC aren't willing to go too far with that.
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Oct 9, 2016 21:20
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ToastyPotato posted:What would be specifically lost from the character if his skin color were different? What about his being white would be impossible to pull off if he weren't white? Luke Cage's ethnicity is baked into his character and story. Is it the same for Iron Fist? I am legitimately asking. Human Torch is a great example of a character who can be heavily altered with no real repercussion to the story. Him being a white blonde dude was never a part of who he was. It is kind of like how there were complaints when it was revealed that MJ might not be white in the new Spider-Man film. Meanwhile, I would argue, someone like Steve Rogers probably makes more sense to be white, given the where and when of his story. If you changed that, you would kind of have to change his story a bit, unless you were just going to be lazy and "colorblind" and pretend racism didn't exist back then, which imo is pretty harmful in of itself. Danny Rand is the heir to a large corporation, and he started with a “recovering the stolen inheritance” story. It looks as if they’re using that in the TV show. Whether one could do that story with a non-white character depends on how believably they can play with the demographics of the American 1%. If they had cast an Asian actor, would we would have a story where an Asian-American goes to Asia and “finds his roots?” Is that better or worse than the “white savior” narrative? I guess I’m just saying that the story has problems that cannot be resolved by simply flipping the ethnicity of the main character.
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Oct 9, 2016 21:27
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SaintFu posted:If they had cast an Asian actor, would we would have a story where an Asian-American goes to Asia and “finds his roots?” Is that better or worse than the “white savior” narrative? I guess I’m just saying that the story has problems that cannot be resolved by simply flipping the ethnicity of the main character.
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Oct 9, 2016 21:52
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Yeah, to be fair, I can't think of a mainstream American television production off the top of my head that's explicitly about an American kid of Asian descent rediscovering his ancestors' culture, with or without a martial-arts story attached. I don't doubt that the Disney-Marvel apparatus is self-aware enough to avoid most of the obvious pitfalls people have mentioned--the "white savior" archetype, the one Asian supporting character being a female love interest, all that Showdown in Little Tokyo poo poo--but I can understand any fan having that particular set of apprehensions. We'll have to wait and see.
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Oct 9, 2016 22:03
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Latino Iron Fist is the correct answer.
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Oct 9, 2016 22:12
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Latino Iron Fist could still be white!
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Oct 9, 2016 22:27
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SaintFu posted:Danny Rand is the heir to a large corporation, and he started with a “recovering the stolen inheritance” story. It looks as if they’re using that in the TV show. Whether one could do that story with a non-white character depends on how believably they can play with the demographics of the American 1%. Which is why there really wouldn't be any reason they couldn't go further than progressive casting and actually have progressive writing as well. They really could reinvent elements of the character if they felt like it, especially given that, once again, almost no one gives a poo poo about a C list at best character like Danny Rand. The only people who would be mad would be the people that were mad at black Heimdall and a black Stormtrooper. Which is to say, a completely insignificant amount of people. Iron Fist is not some beloved character who is part of pop culture. I imagine this show will do more for the character than every appearance in every medium he has ever had up until now put together.
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Oct 9, 2016 22:28
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Punisher comes out after Defenders. So, possible, but unlikely. I'm cautiously optimistic about Defenders, just based on how much I liked most of the movies before Avengers and how much I hated Avengers. At least by being a TV series they'll have some breathing room.
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Oct 9, 2016 22:40
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Iron Fist does have to be an heir to a billion dollar business empire in New York, which sadly makes it most likely for him to be white. I am one of the few people who really likes the character in the comics, but I wouldn't have had a huge issue with changing his race. The one serious issue with changing his race is that his friendship with Luke Cage is a huge part of his appeal to me, and while obviously you can multi racial friendships that don't have a white dude, that's a different dynamic.
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Oct 9, 2016 22:48
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Danny Rand being the heir to old New York money who's also mixed-race could create some interesting story potential.
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Oct 9, 2016 23:20
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Mulva posted:Latino Iron Fist could still be white!
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Oct 9, 2016 23:27
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Wanderer posted:Danny Rand being the heir to old New York money who's also mixed-race could create some interesting story potential. If he was half-asian that would make his inheritance being stolen by whitey into a whole symbolic thing.
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Oct 10, 2016 00:06
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But the TV told me it's the Asians stealing our white money.
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Oct 10, 2016 00:08
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What if he were Jewish. He could go to Damascus and learn the super secret krav maga forms.
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Oct 10, 2016 00:33
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Codependent Poster posted:In the trailer at 59 seconds, it looks like the Bride of Nine Spiders is there. oh hell yeah I missed this somehow when I was watching. e: I've decided my one criteria for Iron Fist being good is if they flash the names of the martial arts moves across the screen during every fight   
Mover fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Oct 10, 2016 |
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Oct 10, 2016 00:48
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I just watched that ninjak trailer and i must say it is of a quality to where i expected a clip of somebody fighting a sharknado
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Oct 10, 2016 00:52
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site posted:I just watched that ninjak trailer and i must say it is of a quality to where i expected a clip of somebody fighting a sharknado It's a Youtube series. For its budget it looks quite impressive. Also on a different note, at NYCC they confirmed that David Haller in FX's Legion will indeed be the son of Charles Xavier. http://www.cbr.com/nycc-fxs-legion-confirms-professor-x-connection/
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Oct 10, 2016 04:53
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Having watched the Flash and Arrow premieres, I can safely say that they were both pretty bad. What happened to you, Flash? 
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Oct 10, 2016 09:40
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I'm interested to see how the Defenders are gonna make teaming up interesting considering some of them have very similar powers. JESSICA JONES: Really strong and damage resistant. Can punch things super hard. LUKE CAGE: Really strong and near invulnerable. Can punch things super hard. IRON FIST: Apparently can punch things super hard too? DAREDEVIL: Can punch things regular person hard but also has extrasensory perception. I guess JJ can jump super high and do detective stuff as well as putting away a bottle of whiskey on demand, but I really hope Iron Fist takes things in a fresher direction.
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Oct 10, 2016 10:18
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https://twitter.com/devincf/status/785187367980118016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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Oct 10, 2016 11:50
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Rough Lobster posted:I'm interested to see how the Defenders are gonna make teaming up interesting considering some of them have very similar powers. Iron Fist is literally magic. He also gets high on mystic vapors; possibly leading him to conflict with straight edge Luke Cage.
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Oct 10, 2016 14:37
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Iron Fist can make his fist like unto a thing of iron.
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Oct 10, 2016 14:45
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irlZaphod posted:Having watched the Flash and Arrow premieres, I can safely say that they were both pretty bad. Arrow had a parachute arrow, you hush. 
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Oct 10, 2016 14:53
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Iron Fist is the best at karate, and also can channel chi to punch and kick really hard and possibly do fancier things. Daredevil's karate is of a different stripe and focuses more on using weapons and stealth, plus he has his radar sense. Luke is hella strong and bulletproof to boot. Jessica's the only one who's kinda redundant but maybe they'll emphasize that she hits even harder than Luke does or focus on how she's supposed to be a detective even though she's the dumbest person who ever lived.
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Oct 10, 2016 14:59
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Lurdiak posted:Jessica's the only one who's kinda redundant but maybe they'll emphasize that she hits even harder than Luke does or focus on how she's supposed to be a detective even though she's the dumbest person who ever lived. Reminder that super genius Tony Stark exists in the MCU and has largely taken over the Reed Richards role of causing far more trouble than he solves. See: iron man 1-3, avengers 2, and now civil war. I contend that he is, in fact, the dumbest of them all.
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Oct 10, 2016 16:23
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I think Jessica was depicted as being stronger than Luke, though not nearly as durable.
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Oct 10, 2016 16:39
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Jessica can also (kind of) fly.
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Oct 10, 2016 16:59
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irlZaphod posted:Having watched the Flash and Arrow premieres, I can safely say that they were both pretty bad. I thought Arrow was pretty great. What didn't you like about it?
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Oct 10, 2016 18:17
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My only gripe was that he didn't fire an arrow into Tobias despite the whole spiel about killing bad guys. He shot and arrow into the knee of a dude helping him, but only uses his bow as a bludgeon on Tobias.
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Oct 10, 2016 18:21
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In the comics at least Iron Fist's ability to manipulate chi/life energy means he can also promote rapid healing in himself or others and do a minor version of a Jedi mind trick. Previous Iron Fists have also learned to channel their Like A Thing Unto Iron punch through ranged attacks like an arrow or bullet, but that's not really Danny's thing.
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Oct 10, 2016 18:40
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Whoa https://twitter.com/BlackGirlNerds/status/785574332286111744
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Oct 10, 2016 21:31
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Rough Lobster posted:I'm interested to see how the Defenders are gonna make teaming up interesting considering some of them have very similar powers. JESSICA JONES: Yanks padlocks off doors LUKE CAGE: Fists break on his face IRON FIST: Inspires endless discussion of racial representation in comic book adaptations DAREDEVIL: spits up gallons of blood to confuse predators
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Oct 10, 2016 22:38
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Rhymenoserous posted:Reminder that super genius Tony Stark exists in the MCU and has largely taken over the Reed Richards role of causing far more trouble than he solves. Tony was right in Civil War.
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Oct 10, 2016 23:06
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Aphrodite posted:Tony was right in Civil War. Tony stepping behind the registration act was nothing more than an abrogation of his responsibility for the Ultron crap. New York and DC were going to happen regardless of the heroes involvement, and heroic involvement was the only thing that shut them down, and in both instances the government either made a bad call (Nuke Manhattan) or their agents were actively the bad guys (Hydra Shield) . The single shining point that someone could point to and say "Yeah a superhero hosed up" was Tony doing something remarkably irresponsible and the only person he consulted on it was Bruce Banner who's name generally precedes the statement "And then things got worse." He then declares open war on a group of people who he already pretty much knows to be clearer thinkers than he is while loudly saying "NO" every time someone says "Hey there's a reason we're doing this." all before briefly coming to his senses then going murderbot on someone he already knows for a fact was brainwashed the gently caress out of. The best way to find out who's right in every story is to think "Ok if everyone had listened to this guy what would have happened?" If cap had listened to Tony, at the very best Bucky Barnes would likely be dead and Zemo would still be a'plottin, and superheroes would largely be controlled by the government which we have already seen is rife with Hydra types, oh and Thunderbolt Ross, who is an rear end in a top hat. Meanwhile if Tony had listened to cap, Bucky would have survived, possibly been incarcerated, but that's understandable, the Zemo plot probably would have been sussed out in short order with everyone on the same page, and the likes of General Thunderbolt Ross would be shot down, as he should be because the man is bonkers.
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Oct 11, 2016 00:25
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It's a crime to resist arrest even if the arrest is wrong.
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Oct 11, 2016 00:28
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Jagermonster posted:JESSICA JONES: Yanks padlocks off doors PUNISHER: Shoots people, then gets yelled at by people who recruited the Punisher and somehow didn't realize he'd be shooting people.
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Oct 11, 2016 01:09
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Aphrodite posted:It's a crime to resist arrest even if the arrest is wrong. Your posting is a crime against humanity
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Oct 11, 2016 03:55
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Aphrodite posted:It's a crime to resist arrest even if the arrest is wrong. Not in a world where SHIELD and the government was infiltrated by Hydra who helped develop and almost used super weapons to wipe out countless people in a move to take over the world via eliminating "threats". And lo and behold, Zemo infiltrated another government organization in order to enact a plan that would go on to kill even more people. Questioning authority is just about the smartest and most responsible thing you can do in the MCU. Hell this even carries over into the Netflix shows where it seems the entire NYPD is infested with cops on the payroll of criminal organizations that will gladly wage open warfare on the streets.
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Oct 11, 2016 04:09
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Aphrodite posted:It's a crime to resist arrest even if the arrest is wrong. No it's not. Or to be more contemporaneous
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Oct 11, 2016 04:16
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