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Herman Merman posted:See, the thing is that this statement simply isn't true. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
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Oct 9, 2016 13:16
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Double Bill posted:Eikös Arhinmäki poseeraa tuossa videossa jonkun Antifa-lipun vieressä? Väkivaltainen äärijärjestö siinä missä SVL:kin. Vasemmistolainen väkivalta on vaan erilaista
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Oct 9, 2016 13:20
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Rappaport posted:Vasemmistolainen väkivalta on vaan erilaista lmao nice link. Violence from political dissatisfaction is different from violence from political dissatisfaction.
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Oct 9, 2016 13:27
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Jesus Christ you people, stop huffing paint fumes. This lame what-aboutism circle jerk has gone long enough.
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Oct 9, 2016 13:57
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Rappaport posted:Vasemmistolainen väkivalta on vaan erilaista ahahahaha
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Oct 9, 2016 14:02
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPdtM7_pddo
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Oct 9, 2016 14:06
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Rexroom posted:Jesus Christ you people, stop huffing paint fumes. This lame what-aboutism circle jerk has gone long enough. what-aboutism is good when i and other people i agree with use it and bad whenever other people do it
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Oct 9, 2016 14:28
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Fushigi Yuugi fansub posted:what-aboutism is good when i and other people i agree with use it and bad whenever other people do it Et sä voi sanoa noin. Jimin puolesta tuli tuhansia ihmisiä osoittamaan mieltään!
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Oct 9, 2016 14:35
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Fushigi Yuugi fansub posted:what-aboutism is good when i and other people i agree with use it and bad whenever other people do it It's bad when the only way you can counter calling nazis literal nazies is to change the subject altogether. That's just bad debating.
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Oct 9, 2016 14:35
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yeah it's bad to point out you are guilty of the same thing you are griping about because it makes you look like a hypocrite.
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Oct 9, 2016 14:54
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Herman Merman posted:See, the thing is that this statement simply isn't true. Lol. You really think the svl guys assarilla and the drop monger were friends of Olli Immonen? 
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Oct 9, 2016 15:20
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The Arhis thing is roughly equivalent to Rosalynn Carter shaking hands with John Wayne Gacy. It wasn't as if mrs Carter sought out serial killers to shake hands with. Olli Immonen hangs out with nazis on a regular basis and he's the chairman of a honest-to-god fascist organisation.
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Oct 9, 2016 15:20
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Kemper Boyd posted:The Arhis thing is roughly equivalent to Rosalynn Carter shaking hands with John Wayne Gacy. It wasn't as if mrs Carter sought out serial killers to shake hands with. I sure do believe you have Olli's calendar on hand. I don't even like the guy but people projecting their moral signaling at him is creepy as gently caress. Anyway there are pictures of me hanging out with super-vassari's, anarchists, radical feminist lesbians, black as night immigrants, devout muslims,TF MPs, writers like Timo Hännikäinen and undoubtdely svl people. What does that make me?
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Oct 9, 2016 15:30
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Ligur posted:Lol. You really think the svl guys assarilla and the drop monger were friends of Olli Immonen? I don't think the dropkick guy has friends in the usual definition of the word, more like people who tolerate him. Immonen def. seems to be one of them. Reminder: 
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Oct 9, 2016 16:06
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I bet all the crazy fascists who showed up at least shook hands with all the other crazy fascists and exchanged some fascist pleasantries, Immonen included.
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Oct 9, 2016 16:09
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Herman Merman posted:I don't think the dropkick guy has friends in the usual definition of the word, more like people who tolerate him. Immonen def. seems to be one of them. Reminder: No no, Immonen was definitely photobombed by nazies, he wouldn't stand there having his photo taken.
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Oct 9, 2016 16:10
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...wait so Arhinmäki is at fault for not being a magical future-seer and not knowing that this guy would murder someone? Or has the "both sides are the same" mouthbreathing reached a point where posing with a violent criminal nazi (at the moment of the picture) is the same thing as posing with a foreigner?
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Oct 9, 2016 16:14
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DarkCrawler posted:...wait so Arhinmäki is at fault for not being a magical future-seer and not knowing that this guy would murder someone? Or has the "both sides are the same" mouthbreathing reached a point where posing with a violent criminal nazi (at the moment of the picture) is the same thing as posing with a foreigner? I don't get it either, but apparently no matter what far-right extremists do, you would be a hypocrite if you don't bring in LA in some way. I don't know why people are using this tu quoque argument, unless they hope to shift the focus out of something. Why would anyone want that? Hmm...
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Oct 9, 2016 16:35
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IMO there's not much difference between posing with a violent criminal nazi and posing with a violent criminal foreigner
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Oct 9, 2016 16:38
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Fushigi Yuugi fansub posted:IMO there's not much difference between posing with a violent criminal nazi and posing with a violent criminal foreigner Is there a difference between posing at the memorial site of a murderer (which, by the way, should be demolished if we are seriously against terrorism and political violence) and posing on an anti-violence video, then? Could it even be possible that when you're posing with nazis at a nazi pilgrim site then you're actively taking sides with nazis, whereas if you're acting on an anti-violent and anti-racist music video you're actively siding against violence and racism? Or is everything the same? Red is blue, up is down, nothing matters?
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Oct 9, 2016 16:55
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Nazism is an ideology being a foreigner is not.
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Oct 9, 2016 17:39
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Nenonen posted:Is there a difference between posing at the memorial site of a murderer (which, by the way, should be demolished if we are seriously against terrorism and political violence) and posing on an anti-violence video, then? Could it even be possible that when you're posing with nazis at a nazi pilgrim site then you're actively taking sides with nazis, whereas if you're acting on an anti-violent and anti-racist music video you're actively siding against violence and racism? yes, however i was arguing posing with a violent individual and not whatever subtext you want to apply to the given situation. selvennykseksi: minua ei kiinnosta tunteeko vai eikö Immonen tunne Jimin tappajaa eikä minua kiinnosta tunteeko vai eikö Arhinmäki tunne vanhuksen tappajaa. lähtökohtaisesti esiintyminen samassa yhteydessä jonkun henkilön kanssa on hutera argumentti minkään muun suhteen kuin että henkilö x on esiintynyt samassa yhteydessä henkilön y kanssa. jos pousaa natsien kanssa natsimuistomerkillä, on melko todennäköistä, että pousaaja suhtautuu myönteisesti natseihin, mutta se ei tarkoita automaattisesti, että pousaaja myös tuntee henkilökohtaisesti kaikki samassa yhteydessä esiintyneet henkilöt. sama pätee Arhinmäkeen. huvittavaa on se, miten natsihysteerikot selittelevät Arhinmäen tapausta ja keksivät lieventäviä asianhaaroja, kun oman viitekehyksen henkilön niskaan heitetään samaa lokaa, jota on jo aiemmin heitetty vastapuolen edustajien päälle. karttusen tapaukseen kiteytyy hyvin se, että "älymystö" syyllistyy samaan lähes hurmokselliseen kehäpäättelyyn ja yksinkertaisiin yleistyksiin ym., mitä tyhmät natsitki tekevät, mutta em. tapauksessa se on ok, koska "ne on natseja" ja tokassa ei, koska "ne on natseja". kotiin päin vieminen on tietty perusinhimillistä ja IMO ihan ok, kunhan ei vaan teeskentele muuta. doverhog posted:Nazism is an ideology being a foreigner is not. yes, that is the only difference Fushigi Yuugi fansub fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 17:46
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Fushigi Yuugi fansub posted:IMO there's not much difference between posing with a violent criminal nazi and posing with a violent criminal foreigner Except that Arhinmäki had no idea that this person would commit a crime in the future and it was unlikely they were even introduced while Immonen posed with someone he is Facebook friends with, who already had a long criminal record 
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Oct 9, 2016 18:33
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DarkCrawler posted:Except that Arhinmäki had no idea that this person would commit a crime in the future and it was unlikely they were even introduced while Immonen posed with someone he is Facebook friends with, who already had a long criminal record true, however being facebook friends with someone doesn't necessarily mean you know them very well
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Oct 9, 2016 19:12
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Fushigi Yuugi fansub posted:true, however being facebook friends with someone doesn't necessarily mean you know them very well I don't know but I am reasonably certain that most people don't accidentally end up facebook friends with violent criminal nazis who they are also photographed with in a nazi gathering. At the minimum he had to connect the name with a face. Either way nobody is "inventing mitigating factors" they are saying that in order for the comparison for any way or shape to be valid, Arhinmäki would have to be literal time traveler.
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Oct 9, 2016 19:32
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c
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Oct 9, 2016 20:55
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Fushigi Yuugi fansub posted:yes, however i was arguing posing with a violent individual and not whatever subtext you want to apply to the given situation. Without subtext this:  is as terrible as this: 
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Oct 9, 2016 21:03
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Ligur posted:Of course Arhis probably had no idea who most of the people in the video were. Every single person understands this, even those who make sarcastic comments online and in the social media about Paavo being friends with manic muslim killer. quite a damning ad hominem there if you ask me
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Oct 9, 2016 22:08
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Three middle-eastern asylum seekers tried to pull my friends 18 year old sister into a car by force yesterday. I am eagerly waiting for people who advocate open borders migration and enriching multiculturalism to stand up and lament the negative effects of their policies and reconsider their actions, while organizing a memorial concert and a demonstration on the behalf of the people asylum seekers have assaulted or killed during the past year. Wait no hahahahaha they won't do that. Yksittäistapaus. Ei saa yleistää. But the nazis and Olli Immonen power metal facebook lyrics on the other hand... (In advance to the obvious smug reply that "but Ligur you can't know they were asylum seekers", of course we absolutely cannot know, but practically zero citizens of ME or North-Africa arrive here for any other reason than asylum seeking, it's for all purposes and effects certain they were not engineers working for Nokia.)
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Oct 10, 2016 09:23
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We had a couple Iranian scientists doing their post-docs in the same group as me, I doubt they (or Nokia engineers) would commit assault anyway. Apparently they were very aggressive at sähly though 
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Oct 10, 2016 10:29
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I didn't know they're already giving driver's licenses to asylum seekers. Unless Ligur is making poo poo up - which let's be honest, isn't that far off.
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Oct 10, 2016 11:02
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Ligur posted:Three middle-eastern asylum seekers tried to pull my friends 18 year old sister into a car by force yesterday. Nah, the obvious reply is that you are making poo poo up, as always, to justify your lovely bigotry. I don't think nobody is going to say that other stuff that nobody here has ever said before, while you are a proven pathological liar and a bullshit artist. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Oct 10, 2016 |
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Oct 10, 2016 11:45
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Rexroom posted:I didn't know they're already giving driver's licenses to asylum seekers. Well, you don't drive with your license, now do you! Though where they'd gotten a car from is another question.
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Oct 10, 2016 11:49
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Might have very well been asylum seekers who have received residence permits. Like, even migrants who are here based on seeking aslyum can have stuff like "an apartment", a "car", some "money" and other things. Where I live you see ME and African migrants every day, driving vehicles, gasp. You can also pretty safely bet your money on the fact they originally camet to Finland as either 1) asylum seekers 2) relatives of asylum seekers who have received a residence permit. Rexroom posted:I didn't know they're already giving driver's licenses to asylum seekers. Why the gently caress would I make up poo poo for unknown people on the internet. Haven't you been accusing me of this before when something that doesn't fit your world view or you just doesn't simply like comes up?
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Oct 10, 2016 12:53
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It is pretty weird how you and your friends/relatives seem to constantly get into trouble with immigrants/refugees in a way that reinforces your beliefs. Also, people lie on the internet all the time.
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Oct 10, 2016 12:55
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"Why the gently caress would people lie on the internet?!" - actual person
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Oct 10, 2016 12:58
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Andrast posted:It is pretty weird how you and your friends/relatives seem to constantly get into trouble with immigrants/refugees in a way that reinforces your beliefs. I heard that one dog actually did get sick from poisoned meatballs/sausages/whatever once. But I'm still not sure if I believe in crazy dog-poisoners. It's much more likely the owner just poisoned the dog herself (I'm assuming the gender since I can't remember the case that well but I bet I'm right) as well as the sausages.
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Oct 10, 2016 13:02
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Andrast posted:It is pretty weird how you and your friends/relatives seem to constantly get into trouble with immigrants/refugees in a way that reinforces your beliefs. Odd. Care to mention some of theses constant troubles? Seems they forgot to tell me about most of it. quote:Also, people lie on the internet all the time. I'm quite sure they do that when you start reading everything based on the assumption it's a lie because you don't like the person (or have some odd beliefs about him/her) there's something wrong with you. Or that at least would make life quite difficult. I would understand if I had some sort of history on getting caught lying about events, like, say, Musta Barbaari or Maryam (the poor muslim woman who was attacked by racists, except wasn't) or Bussi-Valtteri's mother but that isn't the case, even though D&D posters have a knack of being unable to see a difference between "caught lying" and "disagreeing with my precious opinion". edit: hehehehe D&D posters taking the same stance on stuff like that as those Rasmus network freaks do, if someone has a bad experience with migrants it must be either a lie or a conspiracy in which migrants are lured to commit crimes (by malicious racist criminals masterminds of course) Ligur fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Oct 10, 2016 |
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Oct 10, 2016 13:03
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I don't really care about whether you lie or not since useless anecdotes (or as you like to call it yksittäistapaukset) don't mean poo poo
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Oct 10, 2016 13:05
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Andrast posted:I don't really care about whether you lie or not since useless anecdotes (or as you like to call it yksittäistapaukset) don't mean poo poo If the nazis would assault your sister for the act of walking down the street, would it mean a poo poo?
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Oct 10, 2016 13:08
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