|
Whew! Just caught up myself, and things are indeed picking up. I couldn't comment on what I think is going on, since my main suspect (Kinzo) just apparently dies, and if everyone's telling the truth then everyone has an alibi... unless there was a pair/group working in cahoots, but I don't have enough information to say that.bman in 2288 posted:There's naïve children, and then there's Maria. I bet that it does. It's been brought up before, particularly after the garden scene, but Maria really does strike me as a kid somewhere on the autism spectrum- fixation, repeated phrases, tantrums, and a perceived lack of empathy. everyone finds it off-putting that she's not mourning her mother that just died, but they forget her fixation on magic and the epitaph: she doesn't believe he mother's really dead, so why should she mourn or get all het up like everyone else? It saddens me that nobody else is trying to engage with her; I don't blame them, considering the circumstances, but because they have such a visceral reaction to the name Beatrice, nobody's asking her the important things about her "encounter" in the garden: what did the person look like, how did they sound, what kind of clothes were they wearing, etc. These are the questions people should be asking, but like normal (I suspect), they just hit her and yell at her and tell her to be quiet, so she shuts down and just internalizes everything. It's uncomfortable to watch.
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2016 21:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 10:51 |
|
|
Japan is culturally pretty terrible towards people with mental illnesses and those on the spectrum, it's only recently that you start seeing support for them, in 1980s? I bet you no one even brought up the possibility that Maria is either autistic or has some other developmental disorder, and simply told Rosa that she's just being a difficult, problematic student. So I don't think anyone even realizes that she's not doing it to be mean, she's just thinking on a totally different wavelength that nobody understands.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2016 21:39
|
|
|
ProfessorProf posted:The profiles page has been updated. Holy crap, Prof. With the screencaps, music links, and even the character icons and text... just how much of a backlog do you have right now? The episodes always felt incredibly lengthy to me (the first episode especially).
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2016 23:14
|
|
|
Demon Kaizoku posted:Holy crap, Prof. With the screencaps, music links, and even the character icons and text... just how much of a backlog do you have right now? The episodes always felt incredibly lengthy to me (the first episode especially). There's a running tally of the length of my backlog in the first post - currently, I have the next 13 updates ready to post whenever I want. That's well into Episode 2. Screencaps are taken and icons are cropped using irfanview, video footage recorded with OBS, animated screencaps taken with gooncam, everything is uploaded with Rightload. Posts are composed by inserting all of that into a text dump file of the game script. I've got post-making efficiency down pretty good. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Oct 9, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2016 23:19
|
|
|
resurgam40 posted:It saddens me that nobody else is trying to engage with her; I don't blame them, considering the circumstances, but because they have such a visceral reaction to the name Beatrice, nobody's asking her the important things about her "encounter" in the garden: what did the person look like, how did they sound, what kind of clothes were they wearing, etc. These are the questions people should be asking, but like normal (I suspect), they just hit her and yell at her and tell her to be quiet, so she shuts down and just internalizes everything. It's uncomfortable to watch. This has definitely been annoying me. "Who gave you the letter?" "Beatrice!" "Who gave you the letter?" "iihihihihiihi Beatrice!" is not a productive conversation line. "What did she look like, what was she wearing, did you see her face, what did she sound like, was she a bunch of glowing butterflies, was she Battler in drag" would all be much more useful. I do wonder whether any of the destroyed face people will turn out to have been fakes. The problem is all dead people are accounted for and the body would need to have come from somewhere. It could be that one of them was faking (with Nanjo in on it for some reason). Kyrie in particularly seems to have been way smarter than anyone else on the island. "Face smashed in" would be hard to fake, though, so we'd be back to "where did the spare body come from". Qrr fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Oct 9, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2016 23:28
|
|
|
Well Battler the one who has been the most physical with her is clearly emotionally distraught. He is trying to hide it, but he is really upset about the deaths as are quite a few other people. They are in a bad mood about all of this are not happy about Maria laughing about the situation and insulting them. If the situation was less serious they could probably be more understanding of Maria. But I think most people would smack a nine year old that is laughing at the murder of your parents that happened a short while back.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 00:35
|
|
|
Well, that's why I said I didn't blame them, it's a hard time for everybody and I suspect it will get worse before it gets better. Lets face it, barring some chill moments by the kids yesterday, when they were just being silly, no one has been exactly at their Sunday Best since coming to this place. The moment the conference actually began, the veil was drawn back on how awful a lot of people's situations are and then the murders started, so I can see why not "accommodating the weird kid" might not be high on anyone's priority list at the moment. But it doesn't make it any less annoying that people keep hitting her for being offputting instead of asking her for information on who gave us the letter... or even noticing that she's completely dropped her "uu" sound. Poor girl- she gets punished for saying uu all the time, and the way she found to connect with the world (the occult) that allowed her to stop doing that got her punished too. It doesn't really surprise me that Ryukishi07 used to be a social worker given Maria's whole thing; developmental problems didn't really come up in Higurashi, but child abuse certainly did. Vvv: When, exactly? All I remember anyone asking on-screen is "who gave you the umbrella/letter?", according to the officiqal update. The only thime when she might have been asked something different was when the adults were grilling her after the letter reading, but we don't know what was asked there and it didn't turn out to be fruitful. Remember, Maria cares about stuff like this; if somebody asked her probing questions about Beatrice her hero's appearance or tried to engage her using the framing of magic, I can't imagine she wouldn't give an answer that wasn't as descriptive as she could. resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Oct 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 01:49
|
|
|
They DID ask her many of those things, though. They asked what she looked like, and I'm pretty sure they asked what she was wearing. And this time just recently, they asked her "Who was it?" and she replied "psh, you wouldn't believe me." And they came back with "But who was it REALLY" and Maria just went "BEATRICE, OKAY!?" I'm pretty sure that, to Maria, she could see it was, to name a random name, Uncle Fester, but that his demeanor and behavior CLEARLY pointed to it REALLY being Beatrice, the real witch who totally exists. So the fact that it appeared to be Uncle Fester is of little consequence (not to mention that acknowledging that would be implicitly taking a step forward on the slippery slope of WITCHES AREN'T REAL).
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 01:56
|
|
|
John Lee posted:They DID ask her many of those things, though. They asked what she looked like, and I'm pretty sure they asked what she was wearing. And this time just recently, they asked her "Who was it?" and she replied "psh, you wouldn't believe me." And they came back with "But who was it REALLY" and Maria just went "BEATRICE, OKAY!?" So if I understand correctly, you're claiming that the culprit is a heretofore unnamed uncle of Maria's that we know nothing about? I like it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 02:04
|
|
|
John Lee posted:They DID ask her many of those things, though. They asked what she looked like, and I'm pretty sure they asked what she was wearing. And this time just recently, they asked her "Who was it?" and she replied "psh, you wouldn't believe me." And they came back with "But who was it REALLY" and Maria just went "BEATRICE, OKAY!?" When I was reading the episode and it came to those points, I couldn't help but wonder that maybe asking what she looked like would be a little pointless (since she'd just say based on the portrait shown in the mansion. "Uuu-! Did you not see her portrait??") Though that still begs the question of another possibility - why didn't she say that even once? If she described what Beatrice looked like based on the portrait, why not say it anyway whether the cousins doubt it or not? A flaw, or perhaps she was hiding some detail she knew of the killer's appearance? Maybe through her occult obsession, she believes no matter what they look like if they were to say perform a certain action, she would just perceive it to be Beatrice without question whether the person dressed like her, performed something witch-like, or through the perspective of her obsession believes she's just using an illusion spell or something. If she had mentioned something like that previously, feel free to correct me, but I don't think she ever did. Demon Kaizoku fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Oct 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 02:40
|
|
|
Primarily speculation, but I think it's really that she just doesn't want to even talk about how this person looked different from Beatrice, because even that crack would open up the possibility of this person not being Beatrice. A kind of denial/neurosis.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 03:14
|
|
|
Jeabus Mahogany posted:Ten people dead and it's still episode 1. At this rate it'd be very hard to keep the tension going for eight episodes after all this death in the first one. I'm predicting time loop shenanigans. Well, Higurashi was chock full of time loop shenanigans and murder too, so if that's the case here, at least the author's writing to form.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 05:46
|
|
|
KataraniSword posted:Well, Higurashi was chock full of time loop shenanigans and murder too, so if that's the case here, at least the author's writing to form. Or maybe they'll do it like the Clue tie-in books, where it's revealed that Mr. Body is miraculously alive at the start of every book so they can murder him again at the end. By the third or fourth time it happens, you get the feeling he kind of deserves it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 07:35
|
|
|
 He had done nothing more than fortify it thoroughly with his occult hobbies. If Grandfather's hobby had been chasing after pop idols, these walls might be buried beneath idol posters. Even if I didn't understand it, I did realize that this room was a bundle of all his hobbies. Even so, I couldn't help but remain dumbfounded by the smell of his creepy medicine and the sweet stench that seemed to melt my head...  The shutter, the receipt, the chain. And now, the auto-lock. This fourth door had the most magnificent lock yet, and this was doubtlessly a closed room. Just to make absolutely sure that the room was secure, we checked all over for ways in or out. The window was tightly locked. That should have been enough, but just in case, we tried knocking all over the walls. After all, it was rumored that there might be a hidden door in this room... But we couldn't find anything suspicious. Grandfather's study was very large. Even though we called it a study, it wasn't really a single room. It could be divided up into four basic sections: a study section, a bedroom section, a toilet/bathroom section and a section for cooking that had a sink. I see, this study has enough in it to live in. Now I understand how Grandfather could live his whole life in this room without ever leaving. It seemed that Grandfather wasn't in the habit of watching TV, because there was no television or even a radio in this room. We can't do anything except pass the time listening to the sound of the rain... until tomorrow morning.  It was apparently the partly finished chess match he'd been playing with Grandfather until yesterday. The black had the white pretty well cornered, and it looked like checkmate would be reached within a few moves. The last part of the endgame. Even though checkmate had almost been reached, the endgame had been rushed, and in the end, was never completed.  "...Kinzo-san. It seems... we weren't able to see this match through after all..." "...Doctor Nanjo..." "...I was Kinzo-san's friend for a long time, but I never knew about more than half of him. I believe that two Kinzos existed, a wise one... and one trapped by some madness... I never understood anything about him..." "...Especially when it came to Beatrice-sama, it would seem like his personality changed..." Grandfather probably spent every day in this room, and so much of his time... talking to the witch in that portrait. Who was Beatrice to Grandfather in the first place? Right now, you couldn't just explain it away by saying it was a story made by the parents to frighten children away from wandering into the forest...  Whether the culprit was Beatrice herself or someone pretending to be her, whether they were a witch or a human, that was besides the point. The woman in this portrait was strongly related to the basis and background of this case. You couldn't talk about this case without talking about her.  "...That's right. Mom, you picked up the culprit's letter in aunt Eva's room, right?" "Yes... I still haven't opened it... Let's try opening it."Aunt Natsuhi took out that western-style envelope. Genji-san pulled a paper knife out of a drawer in the study desk and handed it to her. While watching her open it, George-aniki grimaced slightly. After all, it was a letter left at the site where his parents had been murdered. There was a good chance that its contents would say something unbearable to Aniki... It seemed that aunt Natsuhi also realized that... So she glanced over the contents first without reading it aloud. We were a little frightened that she might grimace after reading something shocking, but she just frowned unhappily.  "...What does... it say...?" "...There is one unpleasant sentence. ...It must be trying to provoke us."Natsuhi, after deciding that the contents could be shown to the children, set it openly on the table. Everyone stared at it at the same time.   "..." "Normally, you'd expect another weird magic circle to show up." "...But it wasn't a magic circle. It's just as I expected. Kihihi." "What could it mean...? I wonder if she wants to tout her own existence..." "That seems reasonable. With this letter, we now know that the author of last night's letter is the culprit. I think the identical envelope is more significant than what is written here." "...Without a doubt, this is the type of envelope and sealing wax that the Master used." "...Ooooohh... I don't know what's going on anymore... This is the first time I've seen anything like this since I started working for the Ushiromiya family..." "If we're to believe the letter last night, then Beatrice claims to be Grandfather's oldest confidante. Grandfather often said the same thing in the past, right?"He spoke to Genji-san and Kumasawa-san, who nodded together.  "...So, the two of you knew more about this than anyone except Grandfather. Could you tell us?" "For a long time, I made a point of ignoring this topic. But now that it has come to this, I can no longer do so. Genji, tell us everything you know." "..."Genji-san didn't answer. Did he remain silent despite his knowledge, or did he know nothing at all? Still, I had a good guess. The ghost story of the witch Beatrice had long been deified among the servants. He had probably been very close to Grandfather and his occult hobbies. So there was a good chance that he'd been indoctrinated with even weirder things, and had increasingly come to deify the witch. As Grandfather's most trusted servant, who had sworn loyalty to him, he might be the most influenced by the illusion of the witch that Grandfather had created...  ...A short while ago, Maria had been more than willing to speak bluntly and unrestrainedly, and that had earned her a scuffle with Jessica. It was natural for Genji-san to keep his silence...  BGM: Sukashiyuri His concubine... That could be possible. For ordinary poor people, polygamy isn't only viewed negatively from a moral perspective. It is also an unmaintainable financial situation. But that isn't the case for the very rich. It's possible for them to have another lover in addition to their real wife. We can't deny the possibility that Grandfather had another woman in his life besides Grandmother. "Maybe... When Grandmother was alive, it seems she strongly suspected it. She thought he was cheating on her. I always thought she meant Grandfather's imaginary witch..." "...This is getting really interesting. You told me, didn't you Genji-san? You said Beatrice has been working for Grandfather since before the mansion was finished." "I heard that the construction of the mansion was completed in Showa 27 (1952)." "That would mean that this person called Beatrice has been in a relationship with Grandfather for over thirty years..." "Could that concubine of thirty years ago... or maybe a relative or hidden child with that person... hold some kind of grudge and be planning revenge? ...Ihihi, I see, this is starting to sound just like your standard western mansion mystery." "...It's a filthy topic, but the easiest line of reasoning to accept. What do you think, Genji?"  "...Who is this person called Beatrice?! And what is she doing now?!" "...I have heard that she passed away before the mansion was completed." "She's already dead...?" "...Yes. The Master mourned for her most grievously, and he devoted himself to the art of black magic as a means to revive Beatrice-sama. The Master loved Beatrice-sama from the bottom of his heart. It was that madness which drove him to do all that you see here."As Genji-san said this, he spread his arms, as though asking us to look at this room, filled with the signs of Grandfather's madness.  BGM: Worldend Almost anyone would find it impossible to understand. What could be possibly be so enrapturing about this unpleasant black magic hobby? Since Kinzo was just an 'eccentric' who had restored the Ushiromiya family amidst his madness, nobody had tried to understand him... All that had been on Grandfather's mind was the loss of a beloved woman, and the sorrow that he couldn't escape. ...Earlier, this room had seemed creepy, but in an instant, our understanding of it began to change. The creepy books, the magic circles, the medicine, all of it. All just because he wanted to revive the face of a single woman who had left this world for thirty years, for one last time... "...The Master only told me about Beatrice-sama's story once, when he was very drunk. Although I have forgotten the details. It was... a deep, deep love, enough to make a woman like me jealous." "...When Kinzo-san succeeded the headship of the Ushiromiya family, his marriage to his late wife had already been decided by the few surviving elders of the family." "...So, he was forced into a marriage with some woman who would benefit the Ushiromiya family?" "...That is correct. Kinzo-san was installed as the head who would revive the family, and had to bear all of that heavy responsibility. I do not pretend to know the details of when or where Kinzo-san first met her." "...It'd be rude to say any more than that."At that point, Grandfather had truly fallen in love for the first time...  "...I... had it all wrong, Genji-san." "...What, exactly?" "I... I've always thought that... maybe you servants believed blindly in the witch because you were influenced by Grandfather's creepy black magic hobby. But that's not how it was..."By acting as though at least Beatrice's soul had been restored, and existed inside this mansion, you might have hoped to soothe Grandfather's heart... With closed eyes, and an expression as though he was remembering something from the distant past, Genji had broken his long silence. In making that confession, he probably felt like he was betraying his one and only Master in the most serious way, even though that person was already dead. Beatrice has revived as a witch, and she is in the mansion even now. He had been told that, had believed it, had been made to believe it, and Genji would take that with him to the grave. This might have been the last service he offered up to his Master.  "...I remember denying the witch's existence in front of Father on multiple occasions. Now I finally understand how much that must have wounded him..." "...Right now, I can understand very well. If I thought that I could revive Shannon using black magic... I'd immediately become the next owner of this room and start researching..." "...Aniki."Another strand of tears dripped from George's eyes. Maybe his tears were infectious. Tears rose to Jessica's eyes too, and she sniffled...  ――Very soon, the door to the Golden Land will be opened. In the promised land that glitters gold, the souls of all the dead will be resurrected, and the lost love will be too. Then I will sleep in a world of peacefulness for all time. "...Did she say that? The Beatrice who gave you the letter?" "...You don't believe, do you? ...Kihihihi." "...If only Grandfather were here. I'm sure he'd be happy. I'm sure he'd be jumping for joy now that Beatrice is about to be revived... In that case, I believe. If Grandfather gave up half of his life for this research, trying to resurrect the soul of the woman he loved, and spending the rest of his life believing, I'll believe too." "...Battler..." "...When love for a single woman is persistent over a long time, it is shared by those around you and becomes the truth. Maybe you could say they're just being considerate. But right here, now, I'd like to call that magic." "...It isn't just consideration. It really is... magic. She's a witch. Kihihihihihi. It looks like nobody can see Beatrice after all..." "...If you ask me as a woman, then while I'd like to understand Father's feelings of true love, it did leave Mother in an awkward position." "Haha, I agree. Cheating is cheating. No way to make it pretty..." "...That's also true. Poor Grandmother." "And... is there any story about a child between Beatrice and Grandfather...?"The keyword 'Beatrice' has been hidden in every corner of this case. So it's natural to suspect any relative of Beatrice. "No. I have not heard of anything like that." "If there was one, a memento of his most beloved person, he surely would have given them all of his affection. Since that didn't happen, and he immersed himself in black magic... maybe we should assume that there was no such child." BGM: Lure  "Tell us, aunt Natsuhi. Don't you agree that we shouldn't hide things from each other?" "...It's a worthless story. It is said that Father heavily supported an orphanage... and that they started having the orphans employed as servants for his house, as part of their social studies. It's nothing more than a story spread by some foolish people, saying that this had something to do with one of Father's filthy hobbies." "At one point, there was a rumor that he was collecting sacrifices for his black magic... Actually, since he's always doing weird experiments and ceremonies in this room, I half believed it myself..." "...And these servants who came from the Fukuin House?" "...There were several of them, but during the family conference, only Shannon and Kanon were scheduled to be here."To resurrect Beatrice, he had summoned servants from an orphanage, as sacrifices...?  "After all, everyone that Grandfather selected as a servant was young, about the same age as Shannon or Kanon-kun. I was sure that it was because Grandfather had some bizarre hobby." "Jessica! Control your words."When aunt Natsuhi scolded her, the atmosphere instantly went sour and everyone fell quiet. However, something was tugging at the back of my mind. Sacrifices... Sacrifices... Sacrifices brought over from an orphanage... What is it? Freaky words like 'sacrifices' don't pop up often. Even so, I've seen or heard that word recently. Some part of my memory is tugging at me. ...Hey, Beatrice. What do you know...?  ...Below it, just like in the entrance hall, was the epitaph said to point out the place where the gold was hidden... "...Ah...! Sacrifices... here." "Wh, what the hell, Battler? You're creeping me out..." BGM: Play Both of my eyes were as wide as plates... Right there, everything had been predicted since the very beginning...! Everyone crowded around. And the same expression of terror rose to everyone's face...! That's right. It was written in the epitaph.   "Ah, aaahh, there's no doubt. Six people died in the beginning! And even on the shutter where the magic circle was drawn, no, where the Hebrew was written, it mentioned the offering of sacrifices...!!" Uu-. I've been saying that from the beginning."That's right, Maria had been saying it from the very beginning! Right after we found the six bodies, when Maria was in the parlor watching TV, she had said it! '...Uu-. The culprit isn't human. It's just the sacrifices chosen by the key.'  "This has nothing to do with the location of the hidden gold!! It's black magic or something, the instructions for a resurrection ceremony! After all, this epitaph requires a large number of 'deaths'!" "...It, it sure does. Even reading through it quickly, there'd be 6+2+5... 13 people who must die...!" "...How many people are normally on this island?!" "It, it changes depending on the shifts for the servants, but there's Father, my husband, me and Jessica. And two or three servants. Today and yesterday, there were five of them, but there aren't normally that many." "Which means that normally, there wouldn't be enough sacrifices to carry out this 'ceremony'. No, wait. There's that rumor that Grandfather was collecting servants from an orphanage to be used as sacrifices in some creepy ceremony..." "So what does this mean?! He increased the number of servants to increase the number of sacrifices, and waited for the annual family conference when even more people would gather... Isn't now the only time of the year that this ceremony could be held?!"When Jessica screamed this, Maria broke out in that creepy laugh, looking truly pleased. "Kihihihihihihihihihihihihihihi. Aren't there some people who make bets to test their fate?" ...When flipping a sandal, you have at worst a 50% chance. Even if you get it right side up, it's not worth much. But if you carelessly roll three dice and they all come up six, you might think that's a small miracle. "...Magic works the same way. If you want an unlimited, impossible effect, then you continuously praying earnestly. Then, the feelings from all those stored up prayers gain magical power and become incarnate. The magic that Grandfather was trying to perform was probably like that. The key randomly selected sacrifices in a lottery. So to reduce the chance that he himself was selected, he chose the day with the greatest number of people on the island to carry out the ceremony..." "Ridiculous!! Are you saying that this entire situation is because of something like a ceremony for some weird magic?!"Natsuhi yelled. She couldn't stop thinking fearfully about how she might have been protected just because of the scorpion charm.  ...The culprit had noticed the charm from outside the door, and had given up trying to open the door. A human couldn't have perceived that. The charm meant to stop someone that was not human... had done just that...!! Impossible, impossible, impossible!!! "However, Natsuhi-san... Look, the epitaph goes on after that..." "A, at the second twilight, those who remain shall tear apart the two who are close... Could this be talking about Eva-sama and Hideyoshi-sama...?" "...P, painful as it may be, ...we must reach that conclusion. And after the culprit killed them, they left the words from 'the third twilight' in a letter there." "Th, that's right... After carrying out the second twilight, they left the third twilight in that place. The third twilight was... just like aunt Natsuhi just read...!!"'At the third twilight, those who remain shall praise my honorable name on high' Aaaaaaaaaahhh, if you read it this way, it just keeps going on, doesn't it?  "...That's Grandfather... He had been burned in the incinerator, and our eyes were so drawn to that part that we didn't notice, but Grandfather's forehead... no, his head had been gouged." "Grandfather is... the victim of the fourth twilight? Th, then, Kanon-kun...!" "...'At the fifth twilight, gouge the chest and kill'. We thought that Kanon-kun's case was an unexpected encounter with the culprit, but that's wrong. They had been planning on luring someone out alone and driving something through their chest from the beginning..." "...If the culprit has followed the epitaph this far...does that mean three people still have to die...?!"  "...Y... yes, you could read it that way... hiiiii..." "Well, I wonder about that... After those three die, it reaches the ninth twilight. Take a look..." "We are... all going to be killed by Beatrice..." "...I don't get it. Doesn't that mean that everyone will die no matter how many people there are? What was Grandfather's goal? Doesn't this mean that this ceremony would kill Grandfather himself no matter what...?!" "...It's alright if no one's left alive. At the tenth twilight, we finally arrive at the Golden Land."'At the tenth twilight, the journey shall end and you should reach the village of gold' 'The witch will praise the wise, and should bestow four treasures' "...Grandfather wasn't afraid of something like death. Look at the second and third of the four treasures." "...'One shall be, the resurrection of the souls of all the dead. One shall be, even the resurrection of the lost love'. So Grandfather believed that he would eventually be revived, even if he died partway through this ceremony...?" "Ridiculous, that's insane!! When you die, it's over, right?! The dead don't come back to life. Isn't that a miracle that humanity has been chasing after for thousands of years and still hasn't accomplished?! So is this what it means? Something like, you'll be able to meet them in the world after death, where they can be revived?!" "...If what you say is right, would that mean... Grandfather, whose remaining life is slim and who is insane because of love, is committing suicide, no... a massive forced group suicide...?!" "..." "...Genji. Can that possibility be considered...!?" "...I don't know. The Master is a man who sometimes has the wisdom to see a thousand years into the future. However, there are times when that appears to be nothing more than madness to commoners such as myself..." "What, does that mean yes?! What do you say, Kumasawa-san?!" "I, I don't know anything...! That's right, I don't know... Do you think I would be on this island today if I did know? I would have faked an illness or done anything to take the day off, that's right!!" "What about your opinion, Doctor Nanjo? You've been Grandfather's friend for many years..." "...I, I feel the same as Genji-san. Kinzo-san was a man who far surpassed ordinary people. I've even felt a sort of inhuman power from him at times. ...I too... don't know what Kinzo-san was thinking when he wrote that epitaph...!" "...All we can say... is that even if the person who created this outline was Father, the one carrying it out is a different person." "That's right. At the very least, there's another culprit who attacked Grandfather and Kanon-kun. Furthermore, that person is still continuing the crimes just as the epitaph says...!" "...The letter in the beginning that we didn't think deeply about... What was it that was written there?" But then she had also revealed a special clause. If someone discovered the location of the gold Grandfather had hidden, that right would be lost. At the time that the letter had been read, Grandfather was still alive. But at that time, it had already been sealed with wax by the 'head's ring'. Which meant that Grandfather had handed the ring over to Beatrice while he was still alive. If you think about that straightforwardly, maybe we should assume that Beatrice is carrying out that strange contract, and that Grandfather is securing her that right. In other words, this was the same as saying that Grandfather knew of and approved of the contents of that letter. In other words, it's as though this is a joint message from Beatrice and Grandfather... telling us that Beatrice will start collecting interest if we don't solve the riddle. In other words, Grandfather and Beatrice were telling us to solve the riddle of the epitaph. And if we couldn't, they were saying that the massacre would be carried out according to the epitaph. What does that mean? What do they want?! I don't have a clue what it means!  "...Look, another letter from Beatrice." "...Huh? What did you say?"Maria was pointing at the top of the table, where the canned food that everyone had been eating just now still lay. A western-style envelope really was sitting there, but, ...something about it...  Aunt Natsuhi let out a hysterical cry, looking between her own hand and the table... Because the envelope that she had just opened was still grasped in her hand. ...And despite that, there's an envelope on the table...?! Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Oct 31, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 13:32
|
|
|
The TIPS section has been updated.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 13:34
|
|
|
At last, they've drawn the connection between the epitaphs and the deaths. But as for that new letter appearing... unless somebody is hiding somewhere and tiptoed out while everyone was focused on the painting (difficult to pull off, but still possible, as I wouldn't put it past Kino to have hidden places that nobody but he knew about allegedly), the only other thing I've got is if somebody in there always had another letter and put it out while everyone was focused on the painting. Or, you know, magic, but Battler is discounting that for now, so I will too. But who could that have been? I guess the most suspicious one to me now are Genji and Dr. Nanjo, due to the closeness to Kinzo that they had and therefore seem the most willing to indulge all this "black magic" hoo-hah. I cant see how anyone else would have means or motivation...
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 14:50
|
|
|
Battler's narration says they even went so far as to knock on the walls to check for hidden passages, so if there was still someone hiding somewhere in there they must be pretty drat sneaky or, naturally, the letter is the work of a witch.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 15:03
|
|
|
Congrats Battler, you've made a connection most of us did ages ago!
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 15:54
|
|
|
Fair warning - I may have gotten carried away writing up LP entries this weekend and hosed up my wrist a little. Fortunately, I have a big backlog, but I won't be touching it for at least a few days, so we'll see what happens.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 16:43
|
|
|
Bholder posted:Congrats Battler, you've made a connection most of us did ages ago! You try solving riddles while everyone's being murdered! ProfessorProf posted:Fair warning - I may have gotten carried away writing up LP entries this weekend and hosed up my wrist a little. Fortunately, I have a big backlog, but I won't be touching it for at least a few days, so we'll see what happens. Better take it easy, then. After the recent spate of updates it'll be tough to adjust to a more infrequent schedule, but I'm sure we'll manage.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 17:46
|
|
|
I am very disappointed in that letter as a way to complete the third twilight. I'm afraid that that was cheating and everyone will need to file a complaint with the department of supernatural affairs. As for the letter it presumably came from someone in the room. We don't really have a reason to believe in witches yet.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 18:53
|
|
|
Qrr posted:I am very disappointed in that letter as a way to complete the third twilight. I'm afraid that that was cheating and everyone will need to file a complaint with the department of supernatural affairs. You can really tell that the culprit didn't know what to do for the third twilight and so they just kinda phoned it in.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 22:24
|
|
|
KataraniSword posted:Well, Higurashi was chock full of time loop shenanigans and murder too, so if that's the case here, at least the author's writing to form. Well, really, it HAD a time loop, and it didn't really affect the story or events from anyone else's perspective. As it should be. Also Uroshimiya Battler posted:For ordinary poor people, polygamy isn't only viewed negatively from a moral perspective. It is also an unmaintainable financial situation. pfffffffff
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2016 22:36
|
|
|
Oh man this is a really interesting story, I wonder whether the demon roulette is supposed to be solvable or whether there really are some supernatural elements that can't be accounted for. I have a bunch of theories but they keep getting proved wrong unless certain "facts" are explored more indepth. I can't wait to see the end of this chapter so that we know what's kinda like, possible, in this world.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 01:37
|
|
|
I wonder if you miss out on the Golden Land if you wind up being one of the sacrifices.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 03:00
|
|
|
Maria seems pretty sure she'll see her mom and everyone else again, anyway.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 03:10
|
|
|
This Golden Land sure is starting to sound like an occult obscured version of Heaven now.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 03:19
|
|
|
HiKaizer posted:This Golden Land sure is starting to sound like an occult obscured version of Heaven now. Umineko is Japanese fanfiction of Dante's Inferno!
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 03:58
|
|
|
Dante's Inferno is already self-insert fan fiction as it is, this is getting really meta.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 05:16
|
|
|
Maria is the only one to notice a just-suddenly-appeared-from-thin-air letter from inside a sealed room? I'm calling BS, she must have placed it there.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 06:31
|
|
|
Clearly they temporarily broke the protective seal on Kinzo's study when they opened the door, so Beatrice--or a familiar-- entered with them unseen and placed the letter on the table!
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 06:42
|
|
|
In giving an umbrella to Maria, Beatrice conscripted her as a familiar. It's like house elves in Harry Potter, but in reverse.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 07:03
|
|
|
 "...Just now, I looked at the table and it was lying there. Uu-." "I, I don't know anything, anything!!" "This isn't funny, there's only the eight of us here!! There's no way some ninth person snuck in!! There wasn't enough time during the few seconds that we gathered around the portrait, right?!"  Video: The Third LetterA certain voice provided by Sayaka Ohara. BGM: System 0 Genji-san was overpowered, his face looking like he didn't have a clue what was going on... Of course, I felt the same, but a few moments late, I reached the same conclusion aunt Natsuhi had. Until just a few seconds ago, there was no letter like this on the table...! And nobody entered this room! That means someone among us placed it there during the few seconds when everyone was looking away, preoccupied with the portrait...!! "Battler-kun, open that envelope and read what's inside!" "Y, yeah!!"I picked up the envelope. It was still sealed with wax. Even without disturbing its contents, I realized that this was an unopened envelope, an unknown envelope! Without relying on a paper knife, I violently tore it open and pulled out the letter inside. The contents were as follows.  "That's what it says..." "...It isn't clear who put this letter there. However, I have been able to narrow down the list of suspects. It's you all!!" "...M, Madam... How... could we have..." "Just before I moved towards the portrait, I set a can of food down here. At that time, there definitely wasn't anything as strange as this letter there!!" "...Uu-. We aren't Beatrice. Beatrice 'exists'!" "Silence!!! I don't know whether I should suspect one of you or all of you. But without a doubt, at least one among you is the culprit!!!" "...Th... that's right. There can't be a 19th person...! There's no way witches exist!! Even when Kanon-kun was killed... yeah, that could be explained if Kumasawa-san was the one who did it!! The truth is that Kumasawa-san entered the boiler room with Kanon-kun and killed him! And then she lied, saying he had already fallen when she got there!!" "Y, you're making a mistake, Milady...!! Why would I do something like that...?!!" "...I don't have the slightest idea how my parents were killed in that closed room. But when they were killed, everyone except for the servants had an alibi. The only ones who didn't were the servants... But, does that mean we should suspect them...?!" "...Y, yes... now that you mention it, they have no alibi for any of the cases... Nng!!" "...Na... Natsuhi-san. Please, calm yourself... A lot has happened today! I understand the condition your heart is in right now...!" "Doctor Nanjo, it truly pains me to say that you are suspicious...! But as Father's head physician, as his only peerless friend, you've been together with Father for a long time. You might even know about Beatrice. Are there any old obligations that you're hiding?!" "How could there be...!! Calm yourself...!"It was pitiful to watch Doctor Nanjo frantically pleading his innocence. It was probably a normal reaction that anyone would give if they were suspected. Kumasawa was the same. Since Jessica had started suspecting her in the murder of Kanon, she had been totally flustered. That was why Genji's still calm appearance looked so bold. Aunt Natsuhi pointed the barrel of the gun. "...Genji. You were Grandfather's number one subordinate. Was Beatrice an illusion you showed to Father, with you as the performer?!" "...If by suspecting me, you recognize me as the Master's greatest servant... then it is a great honor to me, regardless of the circumstances. However, I am not the one who put the letter there." "Do you expect us to just accept that!! You must be the ringleader! Maybe Kumasawa and Doctor Nanjo are your accomplices!! And Maria-chan."  "Maria-chan. By this point, we can no longer remove someone from suspicion just because they are young. So for the last time, let me ask the question that everyone's had since last night! Yesterday, who was the Beatrice that handed you the letter?!!" "...Uu-." "...Maria, don't try to fool us!! Make it clear! Who gave you that letter?!!" "...Kihihihihihi. How many times do I have to tell you? It's Beatrice. The thousand year old Golden Witch. If you want to know what she looks like, just turn around. See, she's right there. Beatrice is. Kihhihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihi!" "D, don't mess with us, Mariaaaaaaaaa!!!" "Enough, Jessica! Maria, too. Don't you understand the situation?! What are you hoping to gain by saying stuff like that?! Stop stirring each other up pointlessly!" "...I don't understand. All of you are fine with calling someone the culprit? You only believe in Beatrice when you don't want to doubt one of your own. When you're trying to settle a grudge because someone who's close to you has been killed, only then do you want to believe in a human who you can attack with violence, and deny Beatrice." "...Like I said, she can't be seen. Beatrice 'exists'. You all can't see her!" "Silence!!! I don't want to label you as the culprit, but there is no longer any doubt that you enjoy making this situation unpleasant and are providing assistance to the enemy!!" "...Kihihihihihihihi. Then what will you do? Shoot me? I don't mind. Very soon, the door to the Golden Land will be opened. Then all the dead will be resurrected. Right now, death is nothing to be afraid of. Kihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihi!" "M, Mom, they really are suspicious!! We can't stay with them!!" "But aunt Natsuhi, please, calm down...! There's no reason to shoot Maria! Please remain composed...! The letter was meant to provoke us, but it's nothing to be afraid of! Even the culprit is scared... scared of tomorrow. They're scared of the police! Right now, this island is free from the reach of the law, but that's only because it's isolated by this typhoon! Once the typhoon passes, the law will return! So you mustn't shoot...!!" "...How can you stay so calm, George nii-san?!! One of these four is the culprit! No, maybe all four of them are working together! How can you stay so calm when one of these four might be the culprit who killed your parents?!!" "Even I have the desire to find the culprit and kill them...! But that would be simple barbarism. I will leave the judgement of crimes to the law! So no matter how suspicious they are, you mustn't pull that trigger!!" "I, I feel the same as George-aniki... Aunt Natsuhi. Get a hold of yourself for a second... Anyways, it'd be bad to shoot, ihihi...! In times like this, I hear you should tilt your head back and say 'Stay cool' three times..." "...Let me make this clear. Witches don't exist! Not on Rokkenjima, not in the Ushiromiya mansion!" Those words... were the final words of farewell... that settled everything. To protect her daughter, aunt Natsuhi would regard any suspicious person as an enemy. The only reason George-aniki and I were standing on this side was because, by coincidence, we had a clear alibi regarding the letter. If I hadn't approached the portrait... I would also be at the other end of that gun barrel, treated like a criminal...  Genji-san and Kumasawa-san and Doctor Nanjo. All of them were on Grandfather's side. Maybe you could say that once Maria started blindly believing in Beatrice, she was also on Grandfather's side. That's right, they're all suspicious. But is this really alright...?! If we throw out all of the suspicious ones so chaotically, would it still be alright for us to defy the chaos of the witch...?! Aunt Natsuhi didn't tell them to leave with her own words. But with wordless pressure, she induced them to say that themselves. Because if Doctor Nanjo didn't say those words, this cold silence would surely continue forever. "...Calm yourself, Natsuhi-san. But I understand your feelings well. I myself feel like there's something wrong with my head after all of these strange, repeated cases... So I understand well why you want to suspect us..." "...If you really have nothing to do with this... I would think that what I am doing is beyond rude. However, please understand, just this once." "...I... I don't want to...! After all, that means we'll have to leave this room knowing that the wolf is among us, right...?! I don't want to Madam, please forgive me. Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii...!"It was obvious what Kumasawa-san was trying to say. If she was innocent, then she was being ejected into dangerous territory along with the culprit. In the current situation, urging her to leave this room along with the suspects was almost exactly the same as letting her get killed... However, Kumasawa-san really was suspicious just for being the first one to discover that Kanon-kun had been murdered. At that time, everyone except Kumasawa-san had an alibi. As long as the use of some device... or the existence of some 19th person could not be established, Kumasawa-san was by far the most likely suspect. I didn't want to believe it. However, aunt Natsuhi and the rest of us were in such a difficult situation that we couldn't help doubting her as well... So we didn't say anything to stop aunt Natsuhi from trying to oppressively chase them from the room. We had stopped her from shooting, but we were passively agreeing to chase the others out of the room...! On top of that, Maria spoke to the fretful Kumasawa-san.  BGM: None However, the three other people had agreed to leave the room. Kumasawa couldn't fight the flow, and had to agree, crying as she left the room... "...Well then, Natsuhi-san. That will be all for tonight. Let us meet again tomorrow." "...Yes. Please understand, at least for tonight. When the police come, all of us will surely apologize for our rudeness. You may play chess, but do it in a safe place if you can. Genji, I leave it to you." "...Certainly." "...Ho, hohoho... It can't be helped, can it... They always say that the most frightening bears are those with their children." "...Genji, Kumasawa, my sincere apologies. Let us meet again tomorrow. Maria-chan too... Please forgive your cold aunt." "Uu-. Maria forgives. Uu-!" "...And, I will also hand over my bundle of keys to the inside of the mansion."He took out a bundle of about ten keys of various shapes, and handed it over. To the servants, those keys were probably proof of their position. Being placed in charge of those keys meant that they were trusted, relied upon. When they were forced to return them, it meant that they had lost that trust. Thinking about it this way, to Genji-san, who had worked here for a span of many years, there could be no greater shame. However, Genji-san's usual indifferent expression remained on his face. "...Genji. I had planned that, after Father passed away, I would reward you for your many years of hard work and allow you to retire. And yet, treating you like this... makes me feel ashamed from the bottom of my heart..." "I have already received the Master's favor. Everything I have done until today has been in repayment for that. Please, do not worry over it." "...Well, then, shall we, everyone? Good night to you all." "Uu-. Good night. Battler too, good night, uu-!" "...Ah, ...Maria. Wait a sec."Knowledge of my crime made me call Maria back.  BGM: Voiceless "...This repels magic, I think. ...Wear it." "Uu-...? Didn't you say you dropped it..." "...Back then, I was a little annoyed, and I was just bluffing that I'd lost it. There's no way I'd lose my precious charm." "..." "...Well then, everyone, good night to you..."We watched them leave, our expressions completely tired out, and we weren't even able to respond. Until the door closed and we heard the auto-lock, we were unable to breathe... Then, we were finally allowed to take a breath. After that, I noticed that Beatrice's letter, which I had been gripping the whole time and which was soaked with my sweat, actually had two sheets. The paper had been tightly stuck together, so I had mistakenly thought that there was only one.  Inside the circle, a large triangle and a small triangle were fit together in a simple design. But just as before, there was writing in Hebrew, and it seemed clear that it held some kind of meaning. I wanted to know what that could be, but we had just chased Maria, the only person who could understand the meaning of magic circles, out of the room... I thought of this magic circle as Beatrice's second message. What does this magic circle mean? drat it...! After chasing out all the suspicious people, all we had to do was stay barricaded here until morning, and everything would probably be over. Once the typhoon has passed, when the seagulls cry, everything may be resolved. But the letter, which had unexpectedly appeared in the study, forced us to reject that naivety. It had made it very clear that, if time ran out, it would mean the witch's victory. When time runs out, is the witch planning to take on the offensive? This time, is she planning to display some fearful magical power, maybe something that could have been used to kill six adults at once? Wait, when is time supposed to run out? I don't know... anything...  Of course, none of us felt like breathing a sigh of relief. At least, not until we could hear the cry of the seagulls once more... Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Oct 31, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 13:23
|
|
|
An understandable move given how locked-up tight the room is. However, sending the four of them outside does mean they now lose any and all knowledge of what they might be doing, which is hardly ideal. Then again, Natsuhi probably doesn't feel up to attempting constantly monitoring the servants to make sure they never do anything suspicious anyway.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 14:24
|
|
|
Yeah, that you send them out of the room means they could do anything without you knowing, which is not really what you want to do, given that they could find and manipulate evidence without your knowledge. Besides, being histrionic about this discovery is a good way to hide that you did it, which is why I now kinda suspect Natsuhi, but until we know who was standing where exactly, it's a little premature to say exactly who put down the note. Again it comes down to just what Maria saw when she was handed the note, and who did it, and under what circumstances, but that questions never gonna be loving answered now is it? Not until people learn how to ask, and stop pointing guns at 9 year olds (so responsible!).
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 15:02
|
|
|
Even if you don't watch the video, System 0 is a high value listen. It uses audio clips from Star Trek, of all things!
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 15:33
|
|
|
To be fair to Natsuhi, the woman was already under a lot of stress before the murders even started, lost her husband (Not much of a loss given how much of a dickbag he is, but she did like him), has been pretty much the one trying to keep everything together without breaking down herself, and probably also carrying the mother of all stress-induced migraines on top of it all (Hell I'm pretty much nonfunctional with stress headaches - the fact she managed to do all the planning and organization she did is a testament to her grit), the letter is probably the straw that just broke the camel's back.
Robindaybird fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Oct 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 18:29
|
|
|
On them asking the wrong questions to Maria. Maria did say what Beatrice looked like this time. Saying she was the same as the portrait. Pretty much she is not going to be helpful. No matter what they ask.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 20:14
|
|
|
Eventually they'll ask what "Beatrice" looks like and she'll probably just say, "like Beatrice  ". Or they'll get a run down in detail of exactly what happened step by step which is what I'm waiting for.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 20:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 10:51 |
|
|
So we know that Kumasawa didn't kill Kanon, right? We saw him go into the basement while she stayed above. Yeah, I'm not sure how this is going to be resolved. Witchcraft seems unlikely because among other things it would be incredibly narratively unsatisfying. By the way, looking back the game does something unusual with Kanons death scene. He gets stabbed and doesn't immediately die, but he does die later without revealing crucial information or having a touching scene. That's pretty uncommon in this kind of story. It's not a bad thing, it's just atypical. Qrr fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Oct 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2016 20:56
|
|