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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Watched it yesterday and it's visually and stylistically extremely impressive (HBO is delving into real art territory here), really looking forward to see where this is going. gently caress yeah HBO, crawl out of the tits& dragons mud and take back your throne. Yeah, the assumption people seem to be making about the show is that the people in the show don't know that the hosts are conscious beings, but it would be entirely consistent with what we've seen if they understand exactly what the hosts are and simply don't care because they're all so debauched and horrible, like Romans or something.
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Oct 11, 2016 12:30
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Jack Gladney posted:One thing I really like about the opening credits is the movement from organic muscle and bone (manufactured but biological) to technology that helps organic muscle and bone with the gun, to technology that moves independently from and supplants muscle and bone with the player piano. The hosts achieving an existence that is independent of human involvement is guaranteed to be The major theme of the series.
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Oct 11, 2016 12:32
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:I hope they start to do more exposition about the outside world through the guests. A society that tolerates the abuse, brutalization and killing of thinking, living beings for fun is probably pretty deranged in many interesting ways. I don't think the guests, or society at large, view the hosts as thinking, living beings. I don't even think anyone who works at the park sees them like that, with the possible exceptions of Ford and Narcisse (I forget his name in Westworld). remember the scene where Ford is drinking with the older model host, he's like "they were so obviously not human, such a small amount of canned responses" or whatever. clearly the artificial nature of the bots used to be a lot more apparent, and everyone just took for granted that they were barely more than chatbots wearing human costumes. even the current, more advanced hosts have stuff like that (Dolores repeating "it doesn't look like anything at all to me" when she encountered or talked about an Outside Context Problem), so I'm pretty sure everyone's still buying into the idea that they're all mindless automatons Escape Addict posted:Me too. I love all the obvious scripted actions designed to trigger quests i.e. drunk falls in street, Dolores drops can, recruiter for posse/war. do we know that Dolores' can-drop is even supposed to trigger a quest? because if the other robot picks it up and rides off with her to make gently caress, that's taking two questlines off the table pretty early on in the day. then again, her day always ends in different ways. I think the poster who said Ford is trying to make her become sentient was right
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Oct 11, 2016 13:15
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indigi posted:do we know that Dolores' can-drop is even supposed to trigger a quest? because if the other robot picks it up and rides off with her to make gently caress, that's taking two questlines off the table pretty early on in the day. I would imagine that there are many ways to trigger a given quest; that questgiver hosts just have a whole bunch of little behaviors designed to draw people in, and if someone interacts with them they can get the opportunity.
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Oct 11, 2016 13:25
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Yeah, I think the moment a guest gives them any sort of attention, they get marked for the quest, like that dude with the eyepatch following them into the restaurant.
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Oct 11, 2016 14:17
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indigi posted:I don't think the guests, or society at large, view the hosts as thinking, living beings. I don't even think anyone who works at the park sees them like that, with the possible exceptions of Ford and Narcisse (I forget his name in Westworld). remember the scene where Ford is drinking with the older model host, he's like "they were so obviously not human, such a small amount of canned responses" or whatever. clearly the artificial nature of the bots used to be a lot more apparent, and everyone just took for granted that they were barely more than chatbots wearing human costumes. even the current, more advanced hosts have stuff like that (Dolores repeating "it doesn't look like anything at all to me" when she encountered or talked about an Outside Context Problem), so I'm pretty sure everyone's still buying into the idea that they're all mindless automatons I dunno, you gotta be pants on head retarded to work with the hosts for years and not realise how much intelligence they have. Humans can be unbelievably cruel to other animals and fellow human beings, so I think there is no reason to assume that every person on the show is too dense to realise what they are dealing with. Maybe they are just cruel? It's an old and very common trope in sci-fi that we would be in deep denial about synthetic humans having real consciousness and I hope they are not going into that direction. IRC that was the difference between Blade Runner and Dick's original novel. The movie was a generic anti-slavery story, while the book went much deeper and into a more interesting direction. The androids in the book weren't just humans, they were distinctly different from us and one of the major themes was that real humans felt empathy for them, because they look and act like us, even if they aren't. We are genetically programmed to feel empathy for everything that looks even remotely like a human.
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Oct 11, 2016 14:20
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Even if the people of Westworld view these as unthinking robots, surely the realism would be too much for some people? It would be for me. There's a difference to me between shooting up pixels in video games to watching people get shot up on TV (and I am super squeamish actually, so I don't even like doing that) to the idea of physically murdering someone that at least looks almost entirely human even if they might not act like it. I guess I'd be the type of person who just wouldn't go to Westworld, or I'd go to some sanitized version to go on a hike or something. I don't think we are generally supposed to agree with the people just randomly shooting everyone up (I mean, it's disturbing, right?) but surely there must be watchers who think it'd be cool. So I do agree that it brings up a good point of what the outside world must be like if this sort of behavior is acceptable.
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Oct 11, 2016 14:24
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Jack Gladney posted:One thing I really like about the opening credits is the movement from organic muscle and bone (manufactured but biological) to technology that helps organic muscle and bone with the gun, to technology that moves independently from and supplants muscle and bone with the player piano. I think the best part of the credits is that the robot is playing a pianola that has a scroll in it. Nice bit of symbolism.
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Oct 11, 2016 14:29
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The hosts should have differently coloured blood imo.
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Oct 11, 2016 14:35
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Clocks posted:Even if the people of Westworld view these as unthinking robots, surely the realism would be too much for some people? It would be for me. There's a difference to me between shooting up pixels in video games to watching people get shot up on TV (and I am super squeamish actually, so I don't even like doing that) to the idea of physically murdering someone that at least looks almost entirely human even if they might not act like it. I guess I'd be the type of person who just wouldn't go to Westworld, or I'd go to some sanitized version to go on a hike or something. I don't think we are generally supposed to agree with the people just randomly shooting everyone up (I mean, it's disturbing, right?) but surely there must be watchers who think it'd be cool. But people already do terrible things to each other in video games and online trolling. As long as you can dehumanize someone or rationalize that whats happening is online and shouldn't matter to the person being made fun of/taunted. Just an example of the SA forums: While the forum as a whole seems to do a decent job of trying to curb racist language and hate there is pretty much free reign to mock the retarded and otherwise disabled. There are years long threads and rehashes of old threads in which people here stalk and mock people with mental health issues and autism is used as an insult not a diagnosis with near impunity.
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Oct 11, 2016 14:42
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There's no doubt that at least some of the staff realizes how smart the hosts are. Elsie Hughes, Bernard's assistant programmer, outright states that they'd have a robot revolution on their hands if the hosts could remember everything they have endured.
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Oct 11, 2016 14:46
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:I dunno, you gotta be pants on head retarded to work with the hosts for years and not realise how much intelligence they have. Humans can be unbelievably cruel to other animals and fellow human beings, so I think there is no reason to assume that every person on the show is too dense to realise what they are dealing with. Maybe they are just cruel? All that said... quote:We are genetically programmed to feel empathy for everything that looks even remotely like a human. I have a hard time killing mice that are caught in my kitchen because their eyes are too big and cute, no way I, and I hope most normal people, could just blast away something looking and acting human.
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Oct 11, 2016 14:46
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Riso posted:The hosts should have differently coloured blood imo. in Westworld Germany all hosts are wearing cheap Halloween robot costumes and have to do robotic sounds with their mouth when they move. it's the law.
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Oct 11, 2016 14:57
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:in Westworld Germany all hosts are wearing cheap Halloween robot costumes and have to do robotic sounds with their mouth when they move. it's the law. https://youtu.be/QNx8YI9gAHs
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Oct 11, 2016 15:20
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:I dunno, you gotta be pants on head retarded to work with the hosts for years and not realise how much intelligence they have. Humans can be unbelievably cruel to other animals and fellow human beings, so I think there is no reason to assume that every person on the show is too dense to realise what they are dealing with. Maybe they are just cruel? well, we see people working with the hosts all the time in a very mechanical way. they issue commands to turn certain functionality on and off, have them perform diagnostics, roll back their personalities without even a hint of hesitation. the hosts are always naked when they're being worked on, which serves to highlight that the staff sees them as things instead of people. there's even the scene where the lady is like "thank god we don't let these poor motherfuckers remember anything." I think from their pov it's a very detached, clinical relationship they have with the hosts. before the hosts were this advanced, I think that due to their repetitive statements, their awkward and unrefined movements, and their limited cognitive ability, it was easy to view them as just robots, and for the people who've been working closely with them for all that time, the incremental improvements would just sort of blend together, allowing them to still think of the hosts in those old terms. the image of the hosts presented to the public (most of whom would never experience them up close) would probably stress the fact that they're robotic to avoid any moral quandaries. I think for some people there's also a similar thing to the detachment you see in people who work in slaughterhouses, especially with smarter animals like pigs. they have to see them simply as commodities to be able to function Clocks posted:Even if the people of Westworld view these as unthinking robots, surely the realism would be too much for some people? It would be for me.
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Oct 11, 2016 15:37
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Maybe outside Westworld there're protest groups against the park, but we aren't going to see them in the show because they've been blacklisted and aren't allowed to enter. Edit: It would be cool if a later season (or even this season) had something like Fallout 4's The Railroad, a pro-robot group who tries to sneak into the park to rescue Hosts. SgtSteel91 fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Oct 11, 2016 |
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Oct 11, 2016 15:45
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WhiteHatNewb is already wearing a white shirt on the monorail, while BlackHatNewb wears a black shirt. The hat choosing scene shows Jimmy's choice of the white hat to be illusory.
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Oct 11, 2016 15:46
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I actually held off watching the second episode for a couple of days. It's a stupid thing I do to myself, where I didn't want a lovely second episode to ruin the incredibly potential of the premiere.IMB posted:I was going to say this couldn't be true because haven't we seen Kissy in "both timelines" and he's the same age ... but he's a robot so of course he doesn't age. I'm an idiot. We also see the guy who says, "That guy gets whatever he wants" in both "timelines" so there goes that theory; he's the one who questioned Dolores. Max posted:Yeah, I think the moment a guest gives them any sort of attention, they get marked for the quest, like that dude with the eyepatch following them into the restaurant. I had an hilarious moment when he first appeared, I thought it was Jack Palance in a truly bizarre "Legend of Curly's Gold" cameo. I have no idea why such a random thought occurred. Slashrat posted:There's no doubt that at least some of the staff realizes how smart the hosts are. Elsie Hughes, Bernard's assistant programmer, outright states that they'd have a robot revolution on their hands if the hosts could remember everything they have endured. I was thinking that all these issues with the hosts have been kicked off due to the "reverie" function. I.e. letting them remember all the horrible poo poo they've been through. But really, the only problem with the software update was letting the hosts access actual memories rather than giving them prepackaged ones, like their dreams.
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Oct 11, 2016 15:59
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:I think the best part of the credits is that the robot is playing a pianola that has a scroll in it. Nice bit of symbolism. It's layered all the way throughout; where you have clearly-artificial horses followed with realistic human beings acting in increasingly human ways, meanwhile all these robots are being constructed by other robots who get their own lingering camera angles; the robo-hands playing the pianola is the crescendo of the entire thing, but then you have the construction of the gun - this extremely simple machine with all but two mechanisms - and it all sort of folds back into itself. Not a living thing in sight throughout the whole sequence... or is there???????! Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:I dunno, you gotta be pants on head retarded to work with the hosts for years and not realise how much intelligence they have. Dude, you epically pwned that analysis. Legendary XD
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Oct 11, 2016 16:03
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I'm going to rewatch both episodes because this show is so dense, I feel like I've missed half the things y'all are posting about.
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Oct 11, 2016 16:15
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Gorilla Salad posted:I was thinking that all these issues with the hosts have been kicked off due to the "reverie" function. I.e. letting them remember all the horrible poo poo they've been through. I thought this at first too, but there's some things it doesn't explain, like how the gun got buried there. I mean, unless someone smuggled it in and planted it like the day after the update. but the scene suggests it's been there for quite a while, waiting to be dug up when some signal or switch was tripped in Dolores' head. maybe the reverie function was what triggered that action, but I think the hosts have been doing anomalous things long before the update e: maybe I should watch the intro credits. I always skip that stuff because I'm an impatient child, but a bunch of you are posting about it and seem to think it has significance beyond just looking cool. indigi fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Oct 11, 2016 |
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Oct 11, 2016 16:37
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So the cold storage robots. Why are they keeping them instead of tossing them in a fire? My guess is at some point they are going to overrun the lab.
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Oct 11, 2016 16:42
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The Fuzzy Hulk posted:So the cold storage robots. Why are they keeping them instead of tossing them in a fire? My guess is at some point they are going to overrun the lab. Maybe they want to use them at some point? I'm not sure if it was said at any point that they're just old/useless. They seemingly create new storylines and thus new characters relatively often, so perhaps for some of these characters they just pull a robot out of storage rather than make a new one.
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Oct 11, 2016 16:46
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yeah, they aren't all defective, murderous, or whatever. some are obsolete but probably kept around for sentimental reasons or nostalgia, some are probably just on hiatus because their quest is being reworked/environment was scrapped/aesthetic is out of fashion. I think it's a mix of things, and they don't want to throw anything out that they might be able to use later (or, in the case of the defective hosts, learn something from) e: Paperhouse who is your avatar
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Oct 11, 2016 16:52
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They may also create software revisions in the future that could eliminate "problems" like self-awareness or recalling old memories. Then Abernathy for example could be pulled out of storage and put back to use.
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Oct 11, 2016 16:54
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It could always turn out that the park is merely a testing ground, and the "storage" robots represent the real value of the place, intended as a slave work force, military, espionage, whatever.
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Oct 11, 2016 17:08
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well if you're gonna make a workforce or army you don't really have to invest all that effort into making them so closely emulate human appearance and behavior. it'd be pointless. not to mention that you're really limiting the capabilities of a slave/soldier if you restrict them to baseline human anatomy
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Oct 11, 2016 17:19
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indigi posted:well if you're gonna make a workforce or army you don't really have to invest all that effort into making them so closely emulate human appearance and behavior. it'd be pointless. Not if you were going to send them into enemy locations for infiltration so they can get close enough to shoot someone important, for example?
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Oct 11, 2016 17:29
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it'd make sense for that, but that seems like an exceptionally niche case to develop the hardware and software for perfect human emulation for. how often are you gonna have a use for the assassinbots, especially once heads of state/powerful crime bosses have everyone walk through one of those airport x-ray machines before letting them close
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Oct 11, 2016 17:35
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Lifelike functional robots with intelligence (but not true autonomy) would be extremely useful in all kinds of jobs. It would be a hugely important product and do gigantic business. Nannies, sales reps, person to greet and show around/entertain your corporate guests, sex worker, you name it. There are plenty of jobs where it only works, or works much better, if the robot is perceived as being human.
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Oct 11, 2016 17:39
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Just caught up with the thread, I really enjoyed that episode, but I'm a little bit queasy at the idea that the park has a fly problem because Maintenance isn't cleaning out the sex-robots enough 
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Oct 11, 2016 17:43
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precision posted:I'm going to rewatch both episodes because this show is so dense, I feel like I've missed half the things y'all are posting about. I've decided that for me personally each episode warrants three viewings, minimum. I haven't had this much fun with a series, analyzing and guessing and looking for themes and meanings in a long, long time.
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Oct 11, 2016 17:44
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MrMojok posted:I've decided that for me personally each episode warrants three viewings, minimum.
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Oct 11, 2016 17:47
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Paperhouse posted:That's weird. No, it's not weird at all. I approve of Westworld. It's good. I loving love this show. Plus, I got to see Thandie Newton naked. Really what more could you ask for?
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Oct 11, 2016 17:54
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Westworld rewatch buddies 
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Oct 11, 2016 18:11
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physeter posted:Westworld rewatch buddies And the music. Did anyone mention the music on the pianola? Pretty sure they played Black Hole Sun - Soundgarden.
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Oct 11, 2016 18:16
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I hope there will be some easter egg player piano song for each episode and, if so, I want the goddamn soundtrack of them.
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Oct 11, 2016 18:20
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Clocks posted:Even if the people of Westworld view these as unthinking robots, surely the realism would be too much for some people? It would be for me. There's a difference to me between shooting up pixels in video games to watching people get shot up on TV (and I am super squeamish actually, so I don't even like doing that) to the idea of physically murdering someone that at least looks almost entirely human even if they might not act like it. I guess I'd be the type of person who just wouldn't go to Westworld, or I'd go to some sanitized version to go on a hike or something. I don't think we are generally supposed to agree with the people just randomly shooting everyone up (I mean, it's disturbing, right?) but surely there must be watchers who think it'd be cool. Anyway, it's a great show otherwise, I really liked the first two episodes and can't wait for the next one, which is pretty rare as I'm often too busy with all kinds of poo poo
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Oct 11, 2016 18:20
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Zwabu posted:Lifelike functional robots with intelligence (but not true autonomy) would be extremely useful in all kinds of jobs. It would be a hugely important product and do gigantic business. The problem is that to imitate a human being well, you would probably need full human intelligence. It's not like our consciousness is some kind of evolutionary bonus, it's an emergent quality of a brain that can do all the stuff that we do in daily life. You can't take anything away from it and still get the same results. Also, watching this show reminded me of an old quote that stuck in my head quote:A man's at odds to know his mind cause his mind is aught he has to know it with. He can know his heart, but he don't want to. Rightly so. Best not to look in there. It ain't the heart of a creature that is bound in the way that God has set for it. You can find meanness in the least of creatures, but when God made man the devil was at his elbow. A creature that can do anything. Make a machine. And a machine to make the machine. And evil that can run itself a thousand years, no need to tend it.
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Oct 11, 2016 18:27
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Blow posted:And the music. Did anyone mention the music on the pianola? It was. It was also "Paint it black" during the robbery. Abner Assington posted:I hope there will be some easter egg player piano song for each episode and, if so, I want the goddamn soundtrack of them. I legitimately want a copy of their version of Paint it Black. mobby_6kl posted:That's what I was thinking too - a normal person would surely get some sort of PTSD after this, no? Video games are one thing, but murdering things that look and act exactly like people would be too much for me IMO and I'm completely desensitized to fictional violence. Yup, which is why it is required for guests to stay an additional week, at the Mesa Gold hotel and resort, after they exit West World.
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Oct 11, 2016 18:32
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