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lozzle posted:That's not really a good reason to resign. A president who abuses his power over his subordinates for sexual purposes, even if the subordinate is okay with it, probably shouldn't be President. It, unfortunately, would not just disqualify Slick Willy though.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:35
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greatn posted:Ok, true. But they could replace that with another anonymous voting mechanism Anonymous voting sounds terrible when whipping votes is a central part of Congress' doing its job.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:35
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WampaLord posted:What are your thoughts about JFK? His behavior was pretty disgusting as well.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:35
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woke wedding drone posted:If the president can't gently caress a willing subordinate without it being coercion, who can he commit adultery with? Other heads of state.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:35
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I say that we should go back to the apportionment ratio intended by our founding fathers, 32,000:1. That's a lot of people, so you'll have to change the rules to accommodate that, we've got smart people, the best people, we can figure it out. And then to get rid of the spoiler effect entirely, we should use the single stochastic vote to select representatives. Just vote for who you want to win, strategic voting is impossible.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:36
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From the new NBC/WSJ poll even though Hillary is up 9 points she is only up 7 if you only look at the people polled on Monday (meaning after the debate). Of course that makes for a very small sample size. I'm not sure if that +7 is in the 4 way or h2h. Hopefully the 4 way. Either way she went a bit down. On the other hand the new Morning Consult poll that was taken entirely post debate has Hillary up 5 points compared to the 4 points she was pre debate. Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Oct 11, 2016 |
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Oct 11, 2016 19:36
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withak posted:Depends on how you define "fair". I had a HS civics teacher who thought that districts should be determined by a HS or CC programming class. Give them population density and road map data and have them minimize travel time between any two points in each district. I guess "fair" in that case would be making it easy for representatives to visit their entire district. districts are bad and dumb and awful. period. in order to have a "fair" district, you have to make them partisan. just having some CS nerd make a program that gives you districts that are roughly equal in population and compact isnt enough. those districts could still result in a 90/10 split in a state thats 60/40. districts suck, they should go away
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Oct 11, 2016 19:36
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lozzle posted:Anonymous voting sounds terrible when whipping votes is a central part of Congress' doing its job. Isn't that what a voice vote basically is?
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Oct 11, 2016 19:36
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lozzle posted:That's not really a good reason to resign. It's the ethical thing to do.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:36
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Mcmagic is an idiot and voices votes are good, those are just some of my 🔥hot 🔥 takes for today What is with the assumption that perfect/radical transparency and accountability are a priori goods?
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Oct 11, 2016 19:36
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Lamb Chowder posted:Can someone give me the low down on the whole Juanita Brodderick thing? I don't want to be in the position of questioning a rape allegation, and obviously this stuff is behind doors, but it does destroy the image for someone that is in ways a role model figure for me if it's at all true. From what I remember the accusation was made, then she signed an affidavit saying it didn't happen, then when the whole Lewinsky stuff came out Paula Jones coaxed Brodderick into making her accusation again. Apparently Ken Starr and the FBI did investigate it but found no evidence of anything happening? No clue if that's right, just what I remember piecing together from others bringing it up in this thread. It's one of those things where there's just no real way to be sure just what happened anymore due to the sheer age of the initial accusation. To be honest trying to go strongly in either direction isn't, for lack of a better way to put it, fair. Insisting it's wrong dismisses the possibility she is legit a victim, but calling Bill a rapist on the basis of a 30 year old accusation that was (as far as I remember, god I hope I'm remembering this right) never really substantiated with evidence of any kind isn't accurate either. Meanwhile the Lewinsky thing itself is ugly due to power dynamics making it really hard to all it consensual, but at the same time she's on record as saying it was and it doesn't really seem fair to completely remove their own opinion and statements on the matter. Bill is, at the very least, definitely an adulterer. Whether he's a rapist or not seems like the sort of thing that at this point will never be conclusively proven one way or another, but innocent until proven guilty and all that. However none of this is is really the equivalent of being on tape bragging about sexually assaulting women and getting away with it mere months after marrying yet another woman who, IIRC, was pregnant at the time, no matter how much Trump desperately tries to deflect by pretending it is.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:36
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mcmagic posted:His behavior was pretty disgusting as well. Should he have resigned? Or does it not matter because he was never "caught?"
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Oct 11, 2016 19:36
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ImpAtom posted:Bill Clinton has done a lot of questionable things. At bare minimum the dude seems to have little problem engaging in questionable sexual experiences with people he has power over. He is a poor role model and unfortunately he gets whitewashed a fair bit because of popularity and because the legitimate claims get mixed with with honest ridiculous bullshit. Yeah, rape allegations aside, Bill Clinton has done some pretty scummy stuff. I respect him as a politician, but as a person I'm not really a fan. Find a better role model
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Oct 11, 2016 19:37
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mcmagic posted:It's the ethical thing to do. zero presidents have behaved ethically at all times this is a useless hill to die on
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Oct 11, 2016 19:37
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mcmagic posted:It doesn't matter if it was consensual or if she was the one who initiated it. It was beneath the office. "who cares about consent" -mcmagic
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Oct 11, 2016 19:38
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If you are the President of the United States or any serious politician and you can't keep your dick in your pants then you probably should't be. We can call it the Weiner Rule.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:38
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WampaLord posted:Should he have resigned? Or does it not matter because he was never "caught?" Yes he should have. emdash posted:zero presidents have behaved ethically at all times I mean it's just an intellectual exercise at this point anyway. Not really a hill to die on. BiohazrD posted:"who cares about consent" -mcmagic Man, you're dumb.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:38
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VikingofRock posted:So does anyone have a good source debunking the "if a low-level person did what Clinton did with the emails, that person would be in jail" thing? It's probably the most common argument I see against Clinton on Facebook and it would be cool if politifact or snopes or someone did a takedown of it. BiohazrD posted:intentionally mishandling classified info is a crime, unintentionally doing so is an administrative action This. At the least you'd have your clearance taken away and you'd probably never work on government contracts again. If they can prove intent, they can go further.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:39
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greatn posted:Isn't that what a voice vote basically is? I mean I guess. I didn't really think that through huh. Maybe the whips are lipreaders with hidden cameras 
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Oct 11, 2016 19:39
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mcmagic posted:Yes he should have. it's a worthless intellectual exercise then I mean for the love of god, you never actually contribute any news or anything but contrarian sniping and derails to the thread. Please, please carefully consider your further posting
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Oct 11, 2016 19:39
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Ciaphas posted:What would a perfectly fair district map even look like? A perfectly fair district map would probably be a weighted centroidal voronoi tessellation, aka CVT. There have been papers on this very topic, as a CVT is a mathematically stable solution to capacity packing problems. CVTs occur in nature all the time, such as in bee honeycombs or fish nesting colonies. It is a very fair solution to the problem that won't ever be used because it's very difficult to tilt it into your favor, not to mention the math would be sidelined as mumbo jumbo by politicians because it uses big words.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:39
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greatn posted:Isn't that what a voice vote basically is? The voice vote is a weird informal tradition. It's supposed to be used when a vote is unanimous or near unanimous to speed up the legislative process. If there are enough people yelling "Nay" they are supposed to proceed to regular order. It's not meant to be used primarily for anonymity.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:40
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VikingofRock posted:So does anyone have a good source debunking the "if a low-level person did what Clinton did with the emails, that person would be in jail" thing? It's probably the most common argument I see against Clinton on Facebook and it would be cool if politifact or snopes or someone did a takedown of it. There are a number of rebuttals of varying complexity, but some tl;dr: 1) Cabinet heads legitimately operate under different rules. Work has to travel with them. A low level state department analyst would get in trouble if he took the wrong files home, but the SoS get's to because of very obvious reasons. The simple fact is being at that level does mean you operate according to different rules. A low level employee would also get in trouble if they, for instance, tried to dictate US foreign policy; which we all know the SoS get's away with all the time. 2) Most of the "look at this normal person who did was Clinton did and got in trouble" examples are either blatant mis-characterizations of their situations (I once saw someone trying to use Johnathan loving Pollard as an example) or people who were operating under vastly different rules like members of the military. The USMJ features much harsher and much stricter penalties than the rules governing the SoS. 3) Intent is a major consideration when it comes to criminal prosecution for situations like this. If it were shown she was trying to get secrets out or to let someone in by using her server then she'd be in trouble. But she wasn't. It was just a dumb mistake. Now people will try to say "She INTENDED to circumvent FOIA reporting and record keeping by using it" and the answer to that is: That's unprooven and even if it were circumventing FOIA isn't actually criminal. It'd carry sanctions or at least a reprimand but it's not a criminal act because FOIA is just bureaucratic record keeping. So not even the same ballpark. There's others, and a long post I made months ago explaining some finer detail of how systems security is handled in the government, via my father's 30 years of experience as a sysadmin for various government agencies, which I can link, but that's a decent primer on your question.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:40
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:From the new NBC/WSJ poll even though Hillary is up 9 points she is only up 7 if you only look at the people polled on Monday (meaning after the debate). Of course that makes for a very small sample size. I'm not sure if that +7 is in the 4 way or h2h. Hopefully the 4 way. Either way she went a bit down. Four-way. I think we'll see some wild variance and probably things settling down around C+5ish? Maybe? Barring another massive oppo bomb, I don't think double digits is sustainable.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:41
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BiohazrD posted:intentionally mishandling classified info is a crime, unintentionally doing so is an administrative action I want to say I've read a few military goons in this thread say this sort of low clearance info mishandling happens regularly and no one really gets beat up for it unless you are already on someone's poo poo list.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:42
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https://twitter.com/AP/status/785907779009675264
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Oct 11, 2016 19:42
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iospace posted:Four-way. I think we'll see some wild variance and probably things settling down around C+5ish? Maybe? Barring another massive oppo bomb, I don't think double digits is sustainable. Though I also think it depends on how heavy the GOP civil strife gets. There IS a wing of the party that isn't (as) insane and if he turns to fighting them, and fighting the leadership, he'll both distract from actually campaigning and turn off other Rs.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:43
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It may not come as much of a consolation to some of you, but mcmagic is even worse at fantasy wizard card games than he is at discussing politics.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:43
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Get hosed you racist shitbag.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:43
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WampaLord posted:What are your thoughts about JFK? my fav jfk thing was when he was quoted that if he didn't have sex every day he'd get terrible headaches
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Oct 11, 2016 19:44
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man you uh you guys remember when Trump made the papers for how he reacted when a woman had to breastfeed her baby??? we've come a long way since then, huh? JFK had rad, drug-fueled pool parties despite his chronic health issues.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:44
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greatn posted:I think she may have actually been the one to initiate the thing. I read in an interview with her it started when she flashed him her butt during a party. She may have known that for certain, but there is literally no way Clinton could have been completely certain that it wasn't coercive, to the point where he really shouldn't have gone for it.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:45
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Trabisnikof posted:Someone quote the good post (or are there 2) on this. (Man, this is probably the best post I've ever made.) Crain posted:So, with the whole "Hillary used a PDA to order Drone Strikes" as the new chapter of the emailgateghazi-saga, I decided to ask my father what the hell was actually up with the whole thing. Specifically he is a CISO in a government Agency, has been a CIO, has been a webmaster, sys-admin, and most other computer and system security related title/job combos in the government since like the 70s. I know no one else who could have more experience with exactly what this is (As in literally out of all the people I personally know).
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Oct 11, 2016 19:45
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Oct 11, 2016 19:46
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:my fav jfk thing was when he was quoted that if he didn't have sex every day he'd get terrible headaches my fav jfk thing was that he had his mistresses gently caress his brothers while he watched and they only refused when it was ted's turn after bobby
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Oct 11, 2016 19:47
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iospace posted:Four-way. I think we'll see some wild variance and probably things settling down around C+5ish? Maybe? Barring another massive oppo bomb, I don't think double digits is sustainable. If you are correct and the +7 is from the four way that means she only went down 4 points in a very small one day sample size. Remember the +14 was head to head, the four way was just +11. So that's really not so bad because it reflect Trumps small bounce back amoung Republicsns in the immediate post debate aftermath but doesn't reflect Trump declaring civil war against the GOP. So his meltdown is going to cause Hillarys numbers to again slowly rise.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:47
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theflyingorc posted:She may have known that for certain, but there is literally no way Clinton could have been completely certain that it wasn't coercive, to the point where he really shouldn't have gone for it. This seems like a high bar. Should she have submitted a sworn affidavit before they made any sexual contact ? Her testimony to Starr indicates nothing less than a consensual relationship that she actively sought.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:47
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A Winner is Jew posted:my fav jfk thing was that he had his mistresses gently caress his brothers while he watched Oswald did nothing wrong.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:47
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loving about time, how long have they been threatening to do this?
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Oct 11, 2016 19:47
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greatn posted:Other heads of state. 
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Oct 11, 2016 19:48
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