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Node
May 20, 2001

KICKED IN THE COOTER
:dings:
Taco Defender

30.5 Days posted:

Yes but not slowly enough, they've cranked up respawn rates down there, but it seems to apply to the silver as well. That's why silver prices have plummeted since the change: earth elementals don't deal or take damage from other earth elementals.

EDIT: Speaking of which, I really wish I understood exactly what they wanted to happen with silver mines. Any mining groups pretty much fell apart the moment they put through that change to cut mining spawn speed in party instances, and they keep raising the pressure on solo players in silver areas for no apparent reason. Is the goal that only the most powerful players can mine silver (and only if they have non-earth magic queued up to use on the elementals)? Like, loving, why?

I just went to Elysium for silver and god drat it the loving respawn rate on the earth elementals is horrible now. I can't do a full sweep of that cavern before the ones in the front repop. Instead of mining being a long monotonous chore that you didn't have to pay too much attention to, here you have to be pretty much mining half the time, fighting poo poo the other half. Leaving their corpses doesn't seem to make them respawn any longer. I guess at least I'm making a bit of gold this way but I'd rather just mine and alt-tab when my brain gets bored.

I wonder how much silver ore I should get before leaving. 400? 800? Ugh.

SweetBro posted:

Is this worth playing yet?

If you really, really like Richard Garriott's philosophy on what a game should be, then sort of, yes. Otherwise, wait until v1.0. The game is not finished yet and Portalarium pretty much yells at your face to make you aware of that. They're making great progress and you can see that each month with each new release/patch.

Although it still seems like they have a long way to go. If you're going to make every town unique, with NPC schedules, quests, layouts so they aren't obvious copy/pastes... how long will that take? Their world designers are good, but it feels like its going to be a long time before Novia and Hidden Vale are considered finished. There are so many NPC towns on the map.

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30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006
Played necropolis tonight and it's really good now.

Node
May 20, 2001

KICKED IN THE COOTER
:dings:
Taco Defender

30.5 Days posted:

Played necropolis tonight and it's really good now.

What do you think the best gem/enchantment to use is for plate and two handed weapons right now?

Life drain looks pretty nice, and that Banish Undead proc one might be a lot of damage, I'm not sure.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

SweetBro posted:

Is this worth playing yet?

All video games are bad.

30.5 Days posted:

Played necropolis tonight and it's really good now.

Yeah I really liked it after the re-tune. Love the atmosphere too.

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006

Node posted:

What do you think the best gem/enchantment to use is for plate and two handed weapons right now?

Life drain looks pretty nice, and that Banish Undead proc one might be a lot of damage, I'm not sure.

The gem's attunement itself is completely killer at boosting the power of your spells in that school. So I have a hard time recommending anything except get really good at earth + all earth gems. Maybe other people have different experiences & would suggest life drain (or mend! or both!), like, maybe the procs are so good that scattering your attunement all over the map is worth it. But, +40 earth attunement will double or more than double earth spell damage for casual players and that's really loving good. Earth is a great choice for plate/two hander because it has low sensitivity to fizzle and scales with strength instead of int like most schools do. Then you throw in tremor (AOE damage proc), Strength of earth power (make your strength buff more buffy), or "Weapon Power" an earth gem proc that temporarily increases strength scaling on all weapon damage. There's a few good options in there. I don't think they're as good as options from some other school but it's also coming with +40 earth attunement.

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006

30.5 Days posted:

Played necropolis tonight and it's really good now.

Next release the Tower of Shuttered Eye retune is coming out in that vein - lowering difficulty a tad, especially with tweaking aggro ranges so you don't get dogpiled from 4 floors of monsters at once. Also no more treasure rooms, gotta kill things to get shinies. (turning the upstairs into more of a torture chamber)

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006
Are there going to be polish passes on malice & ma-whatever ruins? Don't want to check them out until they're something approachign done.

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006

30.5 Days posted:

Are there going to be polish passes on malice & ma-whatever ruins? Don't want to check them out until they're something approachign done.

Malice yes. Midras is pretty solid already

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006

Lum_ posted:

Malice yes. Midras is pretty solid already

Sounds like I got something to do this weekend! :D :D :D

boho
Oct 4, 2011

on fire and loving it

SweetBro posted:

Is this worth playing yet?

no

Node
May 20, 2001

KICKED IN THE COOTER
:dings:
Taco Defender

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006
Today in data mining: aggro. This system sucks real bad. Heals draw full health-value aggro from all nearby mobs, which means that if someone heals a quarter of my health, that's twice as good as my taunt. In fact, aggro tools suck so bad that it's pointless trying to tank using anything but blade because DPS is the only thing that matters much for tanking & blade's by far the best melee weapon for DPS. Self-heals draw half aggro. There are some ok things- there's a flat negative aggro buffer of (distance from mob/2), and when you first draw the attention of a mob, you get an aggro pillow of 100 damage that gradually draws down to 25 damage over the course of 15 seconds. Unfortunately, these values are absolute so as damage values balloon, aggro becomes increasingly twitchy.

Not sure how someone holding a shield or in defensive stance could ever hold aggro against a 2H melee, they do more damage by design and have all the same aggro benefits you do.

By the way, the aggro impact of Escape is undone if anyone does damage to the target, it seems to be intended to be used when a mob first turns on you with the hope that it will force the mob to choose a different target, and the impact of the target aggro pillow will keep them there. But the negative aggro value of escape is less than the value of the aggro pillow, so this is meaningless.

Example:

You and I are fighting the monster and have been for a while, I have 200 aggro and you have 150 aggro. In addition, I have an aggro pillow of 25 because I'm the target and you have an aggro pillow of -10 because you're 20 units away. So our actual values are 225 and 140

You crit for 86 damage and your actual value goes up to 226, so the mob changes targets. You get a new-target pillow of +100. Also the mob is moving toward you. So your aggro is 326 and rising and mine is 200. You use escape. Congratulations, now your aggro is 276 until someone does damage to it, after which it will revert to 326. Wow. I taunt and my aggro is 275. THE TAUNT UNDOES YOUR ESCAPE. Still haven't taken back aggro and yours is increasing as the mob closes distance. Kill me.

30.5 Days fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Oct 11, 2016

Stefan Prodan
Jan 7, 2002

I deeply respect you as a human being... Some day I'm gonna make you *Mrs* Buck Turgidson!


Grimey Drawer

30.5 Days posted:

Today in data mining: aggro. This system sucks real bad. Heals draw full health-value aggro from all nearby mobs, which means that if someone heals a quarter of my health, that's twice as good as my taunt. In fact, aggro tools suck so bad that it's pointless trying to tank using anything but blade because DPS is the only thing that matters much for tanking & blade's by far the best melee weapon for DPS. Self-heals draw half aggro. There are some ok things- there's a flat negative aggro buffer of (distance from mob/2), and when you first draw the attention of a mob, you get an aggro pillow of 100 damage that gradually draws down to 25 damage over the course of 15 seconds. Unfortunately, these values are absolute so as damage values balloon, aggro becomes increasingly twitchy.

Not sure how someone holding a shield or in defensive stance could ever hold aggro against a 2H melee, they do more damage by design and have all the same aggro benefits you do.

By the way, the aggro impact of Escape is undone if anyone does damage to the target, it seems to be intended to be used when a mob first turns on you with the hope that it will force the mob to choose a different target, and the impact of the target aggro pillow will keep them there. But the negative aggro value of escape is less than the value of the aggro pillow, so this is meaningless.

Example:

You and I are fighting the monster and have been for a while, I have 200 aggro and you have 150 aggro. In addition, I have an aggro pillow of 25 because I'm the target and you have an aggro pillow of -10 because you're 20 units away. So our actual values are 225 and 140

You crit for 86 damage and your actual value goes up to 226, so the mob changes targets. You get a new-target pillow of +100. Also the mob is moving toward you. So your aggro is 326 and rising and mine is 200. You use escape. Congratulations, now your aggro is 276 until someone does damage to it, after which it will revert to 326. Wow. I taunt and my aggro is 275. THE TAUNT UNDOES YOUR ESCAPE. Still haven't taken back aggro and yours is increasing as the mob closes distance. Kill me.

hahaha

I laughed out loud at taunt actively making the mob go back to the original target

FreeWifi!!
Oct 11, 2013

Okay, that's true. Good point, Marquess. Point for you. But you get a point taken away for being a dick. So, back to zero.

Stefan Prodan posted:

hahaha

I laughed out loud at taunt actively making the mob go back to the original target

A little over 10 million dollars raised in funds and the game is still hilariously broken.

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006
Today during the R34 postmortem, Atos said he didn't see a problem with aggro. ughhhh

Like, just on its face, ok? Our only aggro management tool is taunt. Escape is temporary deaggro even if everyone's running it and using it perfectly, your aggro is not actually going away.

Okay, so here's an example: there's a daemon boss in this game with 12 million health. So let's say you do what atos is probably expecting you to do, which is get together a group of 8. And let's say the tank is REALLY good, he's doing only 10% less than the other players (a pipe dream)

That means each DPS is doing 1.5m damage over the course of the fight and the tank is doing 1.37m damage over the course of the fight. In order to maintain aggro through the entire fight, the tank has to make up a damage differential of 152,000 using only taunt. That is over 2,000 taunts, at a cost of over 8,000 focus. My in-combat focus regen is 2 per second, so the fight has to last about an hour.

Atos said he checked the numbers previously and they seemed fine. What exactly is he expecting to happen? What is his vision of how this fight works?

EDIT: Wait is the daemon 12k health and not 12m? lol waiiiit

30.5 Days fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Oct 11, 2016

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006
I think the daemon might be 12k in which case, short fight for 8, not a great example. Maybe that's the point, you load up on 8 and everyone can just throttle the crap out of themselves and it's not a big deal, although I suspect what would happen in most situations is the tank runs out of focus going all out on DPS & taunts just to keep up with everyone else's half-hearted DPS and the amount of healing that's coming in.

What bothers me is, okay, we've got an aggro system where the tank is getting, at best, an average of 15 extra aggro/sec over DPS, and at best (with a specialized high-level helmet MW) 25 aggro/focus from that. It's not enough to say "naw fam I check it's all good". I want to know how the crap this is supposed to work, because nobody can make this work. It seems like the plan is that the tank is just way, way higher level than everyone else and can keep up in DPS naturally. Or maybe the plan is you have to do sword & board to benefit from how good sword is at DPS. I can't imagine how anyone is supposed to use low-damage, high-utility weapons like polearm. Maybe the plan is just being a full-on battle mage and wrecking everyone on the DPS meters while also being the toughest to kill.

EDIT: The long-story-short of this is, the DPS difference between players who focus on survivability and players who focus on damage is a %. As you take on greater stuff, the distance between those two types of players increases in absolute terms. Also, the damage differential between those two types of players increases the longer the fight is. So it's not apparent that there's any practical way that aggro can work when a survivability player's only aggro tool is a flat one-time aggro amount. Even if players throttle themselves, you're limited by focus costs because you also have to be going all out on damage to supplement taunt.

30.5 Days fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Oct 11, 2016

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy
Aggro tuning is one of those things that gets tinkered with forever so I'm not personally fussed at the moment but I'm glad others are and are providing feedback one way or another. I suspect tossing some extra aggro onto defensive stance might help or maybe some duplicate skills in the combat trees that are "same as other skill but with more aggro generation".
Or something.

(I know nothing about the inner systems design through so that might be a terrible idea)

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006
At this point I'd be happy if portalarium didn't disagree that it's a problem

Alexander DeLarge
Dec 20, 2013
Release 35 came out today, how is it?

Rhymenoserous
May 23, 2008
Richard Garriot Game and a guy named Alexander DeLarge. Hmmm. If you are the same guy from the old UO stratics forums I'm going to be highly entertained.

Anoia
Dec 31, 2003

"Sooner or later, every curse is a prayer."

Rhymenoserous posted:

Richard Garriot Game and a guy named Alexander DeLarge. Hmmm. If you are the same guy from the old UO stratics forums I'm going to be highly entertained.

Whoa, that's a blast from the past. Never even made the connection until now.

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006
Re: 35, no aggro or magic resistance improvements, although they did make a bunch of defensive buffs nonstacking which will probably reduce the power of some of the godkings so that's good. They buffed shield of crystal (because it no longer stacks with ice shield which is ridiculously good) but I'm skeptical it's close to as good as ice shield because avoidance is extremely good.

Also more tiers of food came out so regen's cut again.

EDIT: Oh and their plan for getting people to use shield of crystal even though it's not as good as ice shield was to remove a bunch of stats from a passive & put it onto shield of crystal. Cool, very cool.

Tsurupettan
Mar 26, 2011

My many CoX, always poised, always ready, always willing to thrust.

hey this game finally went on sale again for half off. should i buy it and play it, or should i buy it and sit on it until it develops more?

Node
May 20, 2001

KICKED IN THE COOTER
:dings:
Taco Defender

Tsurupettan posted:

hey this game finally went on sale again for half off. should i buy it and play it, or should i buy it and sit on it until it develops more?

Node posted:

If you really, really like Richard Garriott's philosophy on what a game should be, then sort of, yes. Otherwise, wait until v1.0. The game is not finished yet and Portalarium pretty much yells at your face to make you aware of that. They're making great progress and you can see that each month with each new release/patch.

Alexander DeLarge
Dec 20, 2013
I think an exception can be made when it's 50% off but if it's between this and a finished game, get the finished game.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy
The 4 piece one man band instrument is simply amazing.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.
Half off is.....tempting. Yeah, that'll do it. I'm sure there will be 20 bucks worth of loving around in it, and I can always throw more money at them for extra stuff as they tighten things up.

Gildiss
Aug 24, 2010

Grimey Drawer

Mulva posted:

Half off is.....tempting. Yeah, that'll do it. I'm sure there will be 20 bucks worth of loving around in it, and I can always throw more money at them for extra stuff as they tighten things up.

Yeah, I was waiting for it to go on sale to buy, which I why I wishlisted it thinking it would inform me.
gently caress you steam.
Anyway, going to shelve it for later.

Nunes
Apr 24, 2016
So I won the R34 raffle for a Player Owned Town City Lot Deed...... :toot: I think?

Not sure really to do with this thing hahah.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Nunes posted:

So I won the R34 raffle for a Player Owned Town City Lot Deed...... :toot: I think?

Not sure really to do with this thing hahah.

Firstly: Grats!
Hmm. It's a large bit of land but the tax rate for a city lot is pretty high too. Really meant for a whole guild to contribute towards because it would be a lot of effort for one person to maintain.

I'd recommend just banking it for now or else selling it to someone else if you're sure you don't want to use it later.

Nunes
Apr 24, 2016

DancingShade posted:

Firstly: Grats!
Hmm. It's a large bit of land but the tax rate for a city lot is pretty high too. Really meant for a whole guild to contribute towards because it would be a lot of effort for one person to maintain.

I'd recommend just banking it for now or else selling it to someone else if you're sure you don't want to use it later.

Thanks, I was wondering this bit myself. Do we have a goon POT? Or some way I could use this for the benefit of us all?

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Nunes posted:

Thanks, I was wondering this bit myself. Do we have a goon POT? Or some way I could use this for the benefit of us all?

We do not (to my knowledge) but a number of POT owners I've met seem like reasonably nice people. Just be sure to pick the relaxed chill crowd and avoid any potential drama llamas.

Nothing stopping you just picking up and moving later of course but it's non trivial to set up all the deco again after a move.

Node
May 20, 2001

KICKED IN THE COOTER
:dings:
Taco Defender
Is the game ever going to give you an incentive to go to a POT instead of an NPC city? If not, I don't see how they are going to be anything but dead plots with the only lots taken being by the guild members that own the POT.

And I don't mean just as someone who places a house since you can make POTs have tax free lots, I mean give people that are trading or questing a reason to go there.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy
Depends on what you think of housing as. A place to put as many storage containers as possible for your crazy hoarder personal banking needs? A place to craft? Shop? A place to RP in your lovingly crafted sex dungeon?
There are zero questing related reasons to visit any non plot related town except as a rest stop. Personally I do browse personal vendors (especially for cheap COTOs) but only if they're on my path, certainly don't go out of my way for them.

If I had a POT I'd make it PVP flagged with a locked down walled town and some kind of large open air arena outside it.

extra stout
Feb 24, 2005

ISILDUR's ERR

Tsurupettan posted:

hey this game finally went on sale again for half off. should i buy it and play it, or should i buy it and sit on it until it develops more?

I wouldn't buy it again on a five dollar sale. Paladins feels like a masterpiece in comparison.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

extra stout posted:

I wouldn't buy it again on a five dollar sale. Paladins feels like a masterpiece in comparison.

If there was a venn diagram with the fans of both of those I imagine it would look like two small dots at the opposite ends of a hallway.

Nunes
Apr 24, 2016
When should I leave the soltown area? I am like 60ish in archery now and various other skills

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Nunes posted:

When should I leave the soltown area? I am like 60ish in archery now and various other skills

As soon as you can comfortably fight 3-4 enemies of [difficulty] it's a good indicator that you should be ok with the next skull up.

Nunes
Apr 24, 2016
I dont recall seeing any skulls ever. How do I view this?


edit - spelling error

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Unctuous Cretin
Jun 20, 2007
LUrker

Nunes posted:

I dont recall seeing any skulls ever. How do I view this?


edit - spelling error

When you enter a scene, turn around and look right next to the entrance. There's a stake with a number of skulls on it.

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