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Evil Mastermind posted:So... Hmm. Sex moves and the X card, player being antagonistic to player, ways to keep non-fight-scene conflicts like chases or charged social situations dynamic? Beyond that you'd have to go game by game, hack by hack. Maybe an introduction to the genre for non-genre fans?
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Oct 8, 2016 17:56
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Evil Mastermind posted:So... A brief history of the space apocalypse world was created in?
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Oct 9, 2016 00:49
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Glazius posted:Hmm. Sex moves and the X card, player being antagonistic to player, ways to keep non-fight-scene conflicts like chases or charged social situations dynamic? madadric posted:A brief history of the space apocalypse world was created in? Also, since this idea just popped into my head a little while ago: has anyone done a PbtA game based around magical girls/sentai/tokusatsu stuff? I don't know why the idea came to me out of nowhere, but I think you could do something interesting in the PbtA design space with the idea. Like having separate playbooks for your mundane identity and your transformed identity.
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Oct 10, 2016 17:58
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I periodically mull over ideas for a magical girl PBTA, but I've never really figured out a satisfying framework for it.
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Oct 10, 2016 19:01
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I've seen people play them in Masks, but I don't know of a dedicated game for it, no.
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Oct 10, 2016 19:03
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A good thing to talk about would be the way ficiton and rules interact in PbtA, since it's different from most other games. E.g. in other games a move might cost MP or be usable only once per session but in PbtA the "cost" is usually more like "get ahold of some shoes he'd like as a gift" or something.
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Oct 10, 2016 21:06
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I've been working on it, though I don't have separate playbooks for mundane identity and transformed identity. Right now I'm watching Suite Precure as research, and I've already read/watched a bunch of other magical girl media. The playbooks're based at least in part on archetypes I've seen in magical girl works, though some of them're rare archetypes (like the spiritualist a la Rei/Sailor Mars, or the trickster a la Phantom Thief Jeanne) and some more common (the sporty/good at fighting girl, the smart girl, the protagonist type, etc.) Also it is rather more tightly focused on magical girls and not other sentai or toku stuff. The basic moves've gone thorough multiple permutations, and I've ended up making some conscious choices. For example, there's a move for speaking from your heart, but not for bargaining/negotiation. Also, no 'read people' move unless you count the "feel someone's pain" move from the protagonist-esque playbook. Kaja Rainbow fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Oct 10, 2016 |
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Oct 10, 2016 21:20
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Hi apocalypse world heads. I'd like to run a post apocalypse game but I'm worried my group will find the sex stuff in apocalypse world off putting. Can I perhaps mod dungeon world for post apocalyptic fantasy? Is that a bad idea?
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Oct 10, 2016 21:38
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The sex stuff is pretty easy to cut.
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Oct 10, 2016 21:48
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I personally find the sex moves obnoxious (and I am sure you will soon be inundated by people who argue otherwise) but they are a very minor part of the game. It's, like, one paragraph on each sheet. Just sharpie it out if you're worried, I guess.
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Oct 10, 2016 21:51
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Gameko posted:Hi apocalypse world heads. I'd like to run a post apocalypse game but I'm worried my group will find the sex stuff in apocalypse world off putting. Can I perhaps mod dungeon world for post apocalyptic fantasy? Is that a bad idea? Just ignore the sex moves or describe them as intimacy moves. They're not vital to the functioning of the game. If you mod Dungeon World it's just gonna feel like a high fantasy adventure in a post-apocalyptic world.
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Oct 10, 2016 21:52
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Cool beans. Does apocalypse world feel quite gritty in comparison? I'm also looking at Legacy as a potential system to try because I like the concept of generational rebuilding of society. I should note that my players are experienced gamers but don't know much about truly modern rpgs. Apocalypse World feels fully fleshed out. Does anyone know how much meat be on the bones of legacy?
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Oct 10, 2016 21:59
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It sounds like I'm going to open a big ol' can of worms with this one, but still, it warrants asking: why exactly does AW need sex moves?
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Oct 10, 2016 22:26
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Because getting close to people emotionally has consequences in a post-apocalyptic world. People have sex. The fact that other games completely gloss over the complications between characters that arise out of intimacy means that they're leaving juicy set-up for conflicts and hijinks on the table. AW really shines when the PCs are working at cross purposes and there is conflict between them.
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Oct 10, 2016 22:49
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paradoxGentleman posted:It sounds like I'm going to open a big ol' can of worms with this one, but still, it warrants asking: It doesn't, and Vincent Baker is weird. The source material he is drawing on basically never includes sex or sexuality and the moves would work significantly better as intimacy moves, triggered when you share sex, drugs, your sensitive side, or rock n roll with somebody. Between my response and Ilor's we've now covered this entire conversation and don't need to spend the next 8 pages on it.
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Oct 10, 2016 23:03
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gnome7 posted:It doesn't, and Vincent Baker is weird. The source material he is drawing on basically never includes sex or sexuality and the moves would work significantly better as intimacy moves, triggered when you share sex, drugs, your sensitive side, or rock n roll with somebody. This pretty much my take on the whole thing too
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Oct 10, 2016 23:35
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And then there's the middle road position of "Sex moves make perfect sense in Monsterhearts but aren't really necessary in Apocalypse World itself."
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Oct 10, 2016 23:53
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Tell your players that sex is meaningful in *AW, they don't have to engage if they don't want, but you trust their maturity to cut to black appropriately. There are only 3 topics in this thread: -Is a new PbTA game out? -Review my rules hack -Sex Moves: Why Golden Bee fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Oct 11, 2016 |
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Oct 11, 2016 00:49
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Golden Bee posted:Tell your players that sex is meaningful in *AW, they don't have to engage if they don't want, but you trust their maturity to cut to black appropriately. My new hack is out, check it out Sex Moves: yes or no?
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Oct 11, 2016 01:52
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paradoxGentleman posted:It sounds like I'm going to open a big ol' can of worms with this one, but still, it warrants asking: Most people of age need sex, and Apocalypse World is all about needs. Actions in Apocalypse World should have consequences, and having individual sex moves ensure that while informing the archetypes more. For example, Vincent encourages you as the MC to create NPCs who will act on simple needs, including "following their clits/dicks around". So, if you play the game as written there's a good chance a player character may be on the receiving end of such advances, and while one could manage without sex moves the design of Apocalypse World strives to connect the story to the rules and vice versa. People who think they don't fit the game are perhaps forgetting this, but Vincent describes sex as a primal need and important motivator for characters multiple times in the text. People gently caress, it's a fact. Wanting to think of them as intimacy moves seems unnecessarily prudish considering the actual text of the game (although I'm not dismissing the emotional aspect of the act), and I'm not at all convinced that the moves work as is for non-sexual intimate acts, but whatever rocks your boat. thotsky fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Oct 11, 2016 |
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Oct 11, 2016 02:19
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Alright then, new topic: where did Vince draw mechanical inspiration and how?
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Oct 11, 2016 02:23
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Covok posted:Alright then, new topic: where did Vince draw mechanical inspiration and how? Says in the back of the book. Not really much to discuss.
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Oct 11, 2016 02:25
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Error 404 posted:This pretty much my take on the whole thing too I was going to  butunseenlibrarian posted:And then there's the middle road position of "Sex moves make perfect sense in Monsterhearts but aren't really necessary in Apocalypse World itself." Yeah MH entirely deserves it's sex moves. It's particularly weird to say "Sex is an avenue for drama and is a need" when the same thing is true of water and that doesn't have an individual, custom move that's on every playbook, and is also actually a thing that features heavily in related media, including the biggest apocalypse film in the past, say, decade. Having sex moves did give us The Show's special, though, which partially redeems it.
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Oct 11, 2016 02:50
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Your analogy is flawed; You can drink water by yourself. Sharing intimacy with someone requires another person.
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Oct 11, 2016 03:03
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spectralent posted:I was going to Well hey the Waterbearer is one of the most interesting new playbooks in 2e...
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Oct 11, 2016 04:19
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Gameko posted:I'm also looking at Legacy as a potential system to try because I like the concept of generational rebuilding of society. I should note that my players are experienced gamers but don't know much about truly modern rpgs. Apocalypse World feels fully fleshed out. Does anyone know how much meat be on the bones of legacy? This bit got a bit lost in the ~sex moves~ conversation but I'd say that Legacy doesn't do a great job of explaining how it's meant to be played. It's something you can work around, and I'm putting some advice on my blog while I work on a revised edition, but it may not be the best fit for a group's first experience of story games. Even so, there's plenty of meat on the bones if you want to give it a try. One big thing that trips people up is the divide between Family and Character moves. When you're playing you can feel pulled between the two different scales of thinking, which can lead to a disjointed feeling. Just remember that Characters are figures with a lot of pull within their family - they've been chosen from the Family's ranks to solve the current crisis, and when a player activates a Family move it helps if you frame it as the Character sending their family members off on a mission. Once you're more comfortable with the system it tends to flow a lot better, particularly as you experiment with the different ways that Characters can be influential forces within their Family.
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Oct 11, 2016 08:21
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Evil Mastermind posted:has anyone done a PbtA game based around magical girls/sentai/tokusatsu stuff? To quote myself from almost exactly a year ago (wow): Foglet posted:there's Magical Fury. no idea whether it's good or not.
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Oct 11, 2016 10:55
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Ilor posted:Your analogy is flawed; You can drink water by yourself. Sharing intimacy with someone requires another person. The move isn't for sharing intimacy, it's for sex. You can say "you can treat it like that if you want", but that's not how it's written. You could argue any form of socialisation also counts as an "emotional need" then, in which case the game doesn't have rules for the vast majority of them, most of which also show up more in related fiction. Anyway, I've laid out my POV, and I think the thread's better if I don't just repeatedly restate it.
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Oct 11, 2016 19:15
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Biomute posted:People gently caress, it's a fact.
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Oct 11, 2016 20:18
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Ilor posted:...pretty much sums it up. Why not use that to drive the conflicts central to the story? I realize my nerd is showing, but Irvin Kershner said in the commentary for The Empire Strikes Back that when Han and Leia kiss in the infamous "my hands are dirty" scene, that it's supposed to be analogous to sex (but he didn't put in an actual sex scene, because "it's a kids movie" in his words.)
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Oct 11, 2016 21:22
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Thanks a lot for the help thread. All this discussion is pretty useful, even the bits about the sex moves. I think I'm going to seek a little more information about dungeon world before I make a final decision. It might not have the exact flavor I'm looking for but I think my players might like the system a lot.
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Oct 12, 2016 01:47
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is there an internet adage yet about the increasing probability that someone will draw comparisons to western literary canon the longer a discussion on apocalypse world sex moves goes on?
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Oct 12, 2016 04:41
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Sort of like Godwin's Law, but more well-read? But it's not just western lit; people in East Asia gently caress (and write stories about it) too.
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Oct 12, 2016 05:46
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The story and breakdown in MF is okay but the math is wrong. There are too many floating -1/+1s and the scale is 5 or lower, not 6 or lower.
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Oct 12, 2016 07:04
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Golden Bee posted:The story and breakdown in MF is okay but the math is wrong. There are too many floating -1/+1s and the scale is 5 or lower, not 6 or lower. MF?
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Oct 12, 2016 07:15
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Magical Fury, I think.
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Oct 12, 2016 08:08
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Gameko posted:Thanks a lot for the help thread. All this discussion is pretty useful, even the bits about the sex moves. I think I'm going to seek a little more information about dungeon world before I make a final decision. It might not have the exact flavor I'm looking for but I think my players might like the system a lot. If they're already fans of D&D then dungeon world is an easy transition. There's lots of common ground they'll be familiar with. Once they're comfortable with DW you can get weirder on them with AW and it's other weirdo babies. You can play dungeon world in a post apocalypse setting, but it will play like fantasy adventure/dungeon crawling because that's the genre DW is written for. Apocalypse World is going to push your group HARD at the post apocalypse because that's what it's rules are about. AW will also push inter-player complications and conflict a lot more and give you an experience very different to D&D /Dungeon World.
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Oct 12, 2016 08:27
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So, I'm currently playing in a game of Masks, and, due to a series of circumstances, that I really don't want to get too in depth into, suffice to say that they're frustrating, and dumb. My GM has not read the GMing chapter. I discovered this by asking how many conditions a particular villain has. The answer was, and I quote. "Rule Zero." So I've asked him in the text exchange to actually read the relevant sections of the book, but I think I'm. . . actually going to have to have a conversation with him about this and I don't want to be too harsh, but I kind of have to be, given that he's decided to toss me at a duel with personal stakes too high for losing to be an option, and also an explicit statement that I am not supposed to win this alone. (I actually can, and probably will, but that's besides the point, right now). Now I know the correct answer to "How do I solve this?" Is "Talk to him like you're both adults." And I'm going to, probably either today or tomorrow, but I just wanted to know if you goons had any advice on uh. How to be gentle about telling the GM to read the goddamned rules.
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Oct 12, 2016 10:04
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It's likely going to be difficult - many GMs are used to rules being only a suggestion for them. They may not realise how important that part of the system is. Maybe point out that what they're doing is equivalent to decided monsters don't have HP in D&D without telling players beforehand - it's a crucial part of the system you all signed up to play.
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Oct 12, 2016 10:10
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Moving into PbtA games from things like 3e/Pathfinder that mostly function because of Rule Zero can be a bit of culture shock for GMs who are used to being able to bend rules behind the scenes. And doubly so for GMs who aren't used to the idea of players dictating results of actions or details about the world. Politely explaining that this isn't that kind of game and it only functions properly when both sides follow the rules from their parts of the book is really the only way to go. If you can show him some examples of how the interactions are supposed to play out that will usually help make clear what kind of game it is. That said, there's every chance this kind of experience isn't what he actually wanted to run, so be prepared in case you need to find someone else to run it or the GM decides to play something else instead.
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Oct 12, 2016 10:22
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