|
Pulsedragon posted:So, I'm currently playing in a game of Masks, and, due to a series of circumstances, that I really don't want to get too in depth into, suffice to say that they're frustrating, and dumb. Oh my! I might mention to your GM that while a lot of RPGs treat the GM as final arbitrator on the rules and tell them to ignore or change whatever and they're used to that, PBTA is very explicit about what the GM's job is, and how they go about it. The thing I love (absolutely love) about PBTA is that by giving the GM the structure it does, it puts a lot of the load of figuring out what happens next into the system, which frees the GM up to be more improvisational. I prep nothing when I run Dungeon World or Apocalypse World, and minimal amounts for other PBTA games depending on how well i know their systems/genres. I can do a one shot of DW with no prep, but the best part is, I get to be as surprised about what happens as the players. Allowing the rules to do their job will give you an experience that you would never have had without them. Your GM is robbing themselves of the joy of being surprised if they ignore the rules for Masks, because they're robbing themselves of the central tension between player choice, and consistent world, the rules, and randomness of the dice. Hopefully your GM is mature enough to take the feedback on board and realise that you want to play the game when you explain it. Flavivirus' advice is definitely part of the angle I'd take. The GM rules are rules. PBTA treats the GM as a player, just a player with a different set orf rules. I can't recall if masks has the always say part that apocalypse world does. As players, it's your responsibility to learn your playbooks' moves, and as the MC/editor, its your GM's responsibility to learn theirs. If they aren't following the rules then it's quite possible they're not playing to find out whatv happens, and thats a core of every PBTA game. "always say: • What the principles demand. • What the rules demand. • What your prep demands. • What honesty demands." While some RPGs may rely on the rule of cool, PBTA definitely does not.
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 10:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 06:40 |
|
|
Rule Zero is a really useful safety net when you're running games -- it means that if you screw up e.g. encounter balance then it's no big deal, you can adjust it on the fly. PBTA has a similar safety net in the way the GM handles their fictional positioning, but if you're new to the system it's not immediately obvious.Dulkor posted:Politely explaining that this isn't that kind of game and it only functions properly when both sides follow the rules from their parts of the book is really the only way to go. If you can show him some examples of how the interactions are supposed to play out that will usually help make clear what kind of game it is. If you have time, it might be an idea to have someone who does get PBTA (maybe you?) to run a one- or two-shot game to show off how the system works, then go through it and explain why you made the decisions you did at the times you did. Or point him to a PBTA podcast? Friends at the Table is pretty cool.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 10:48
|
|
|
Flavivirus posted:It's likely going to be difficult - many GMs are used to rules being only a suggestion for them. I get what you mean but it's probably worth noting that loads of people playing D&D do in fact run encounters by going "Well he's taken three hits and one of them was pretty big so he can be dead now".
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 11:46
|
|
|
spectralent posted:I get what you mean but it's probably worth noting that loads of people playing D&D do in fact run encounters by going "Well he's taken three hits and one of them was pretty big so he can be dead now". That's fair, though in that case I'd still be irritated if I was playing the game under the presumption that the amount of damage I was doing was really important. I think in my mind one's a bigger magnitude of problem that the other - abstracting the precise value of a numeric damage track isn't invalidating the player's actions so long as the general amount of damage done is respected, but when you're placing discrete traits on an opponent as your only mechanical interaction with them it's a huge removal of player agency to disregard that. It'd be like inventing or discarding Fate aspects on a whim. Really the biggest issue is that it sounds like Pulsedragon expects to be able to win a fight and by rules as written has a pretty good chance, but the GM is deciding to disregard the rules so their own ideas win out - no matter the rules system that's a red flag, but it's particularly an issue in a game written with the PbtA play-to-find-out philosophy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 12:14
|
|
|
madadric posted:The thing I love (absolutely love) about PBTA is that by giving the GM the structure it does, it puts a lot of the load of figuring out what happens next into the system, which frees the GM up to be more improvisational. I prep nothing when I run Dungeon World or Apocalypse World, and minimal amounts for other PBTA games depending on how well i know their systems/genres.  madadric posted:I can do a one shot of DW with no prep, but the best part is, I get to be as surprised about what happens as the players. Allowing the rules to do their job will give you an experience that you would never have had without them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 17:59
|
|
|
Flavivirus posted:That's fair, though in that case I'd still be irritated if I was playing the game under the presumption that the amount of damage I was doing was really important. I think in my mind one's a bigger magnitude of problem that the other - abstracting the precise value of a numeric damage track isn't invalidating the player's actions so long as the general amount of damage done is respected, but when you're placing discrete traits on an opponent as your only mechanical interaction with them it's a huge removal of player agency to disregard that. It'd be like inventing or discarding Fate aspects on a whim. This is pretty much exactly what happened, the other thing is, that the GM explicitly set the fight up as a duel and the personal stakes are a little high for her to be losing at this point in her character development, because she's like, right at the start of figuring things out so backsliding isn't interesting. And then told me out of character that he doesn't intend for me to be able to fight this guy alone. Also he established that anyone cheating would get hurt, badly. And, look there were a couple other things, but, basically he set me up for a duel I can't afford to lose, but he doesn't intend for me to win, either? So.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 19:26
|
|
|
Sounds like you're looking for different games. For example you want to game and he wants to write a novel.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 19:38
|
|
|
He's trying to railroad a PbtA game. Which is... impressive.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 20:13
|
|
|
admanb posted:He's trying to railroad a PbtA game. Which is... impressive. Yeah, and it's a notable departure from his normal behavior, which is why this is a "Sit down and explain the rules" and not a a "Sit down and tell him I'm fuckin' out"
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 20:51
|
|
|
Be a fan of the player's characters...being railroaded
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 03:21
|
|
|
I mean I don't know Masks but if the GM really wanted the fight to be nearly unwinnable couldn't he just give the bad guy enough HP/conditions that you're question was irrelevant anyway?
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 08:01
|
|
|
Apocron posted:I mean I don't know Masks but if the GM really wanted the fight to be nearly unwinnable couldn't he just give the bad guy enough HP/conditions that you're question was irrelevant anyway? I think the maximum amount of conditions is 5? Villains have the same amount of conditions as the teen heroes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 10:44
|
|
|
It depends on how serious a threat you need a villain to be. Five conditions is archnemesis material, like Slade from the Teen Titans cartoon.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 10:48
|
|
|
Well had a talk with him, he. . . might understand now? I don't know, I cited specific page numbers for him to read the night before and when I pointed out some things he kind of gave me the "Yeah, yeah I got it" bit. So. We'll see.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 21:45
|
|
|
Pulsedragon posted:Well had a talk with him, he. . . might understand now? I don't know, I cited specific page numbers for him to read the night before and when I pointed out some things he kind of gave me the "Yeah, yeah I got it" bit. Good luck! I hope your GM gets to enjoy being surprised and excited to find out what will happen.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 22:01
|
|
|
Any tips on running Monsterhearts? I know to keep external threats and obligations supporting player drama without turning everything into Monster of the Week, and every non-core playbook is bad aside from the Dad. Surprised there's no Teacher one, to be honest. Wrestlepig fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Oct 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2016 06:06
|
|
|
rumble in the bunghole posted:Any tips on running Monsterhearts? Giving to the undeserving is just as good as punishing the innocent. Make triangles, ask hard questions, force choices.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2016 07:32
|
|
|
I haven't delved deeply into PBTA, but I wanted to ask, what (if any) is the underlying/unifying resource management subsystem that's utilized in these games?
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2016 16:05
|
|
|
P.d0t posted:I haven't delved deeply into PBTA, but I wanted to ask, what (if any) is the underlying/unifying resource management subsystem that's utilized in these games? There really isn't any that I can think of. I guess they all have some form of HP (harm clock, HP, conditions, etc.), but that's it? Like, the main unifying element is Moves.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2016 17:37
|
|
|
P.d0t posted:I haven't delved deeply into PBTA, but I wanted to ask, what (if any) is the underlying/unifying resource management subsystem that's utilized in these games? While each of the hacks has something different (gold/health for Dungeon World, coin/stress/trauma for Blades in the Dark), I think the unifying resource is character desires. Playing with what the characters want and or need is a huge thing in PbtA in my opinion, and any amount of soft and hard moves can come from that. For some players that's gear, for some wealth, and for some it's relationships or goals.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2016 18:23
|
|
|
Monsterhearts has Strings (basically social leverage) and they all have EXP-by-any-other-name.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2016 20:51
|
|
|
I might argue that the 6- Make a Move and 7-9 Success, But... is the core back-and-forth in the game, but that might be too high-level and simplified.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2016 22:18
|
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:So... I finally had some thoughts on this and here are some topics I think would be good to cover: Intent: unlike Dungeon World, other PbtA games are often games where a single move can have a huge effect on the state of the fiction. In theory a single roll on a Seize By Force could resolve a war, or just a single fist-fight; it's all down to intent. Establishing what the intent and goals of a move are before rolling the dice is key to avoiding bad feelings or feelings of unfairness. Partial Success: I feel one of the best ways to judge the tone of a PbtA game is to look at the results of 7-9 rolls. The more harsh or gentle the game, the more harsh or gentle the effects of partial successes. What this means to the MC is don't ignore the effects of 7-9 rolls! This is especially important in AW, where consequences are often determined by the player who rolled and are positive statements -- "you take definite hold of it", "you suffer little harm" -- which means every one they don't choose is a consequence the MC should apply.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 02:11
|
|
|
admanb posted:This is especially important in AW, where consequences are often determined by the player who rolled and are positive statements -- "you take definite hold of it", "you suffer little harm" -- which means every one they don't choose is a consequence the MC should apply. I've always felt these were things you can apply; it's how you change up difficulty via fictional positioning. Like, if things aren't that serious then maybe not having definite hold of it is going to be as simple as it needing two hands or something, or it might mean the warlord's feral dogs also have a grip on it. They're things you can make a big deal, basically; I don't feel like it's necessary to have them always be a big deal.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 03:12
|
|
|
Hi! I know the impulse drive guy posts in here. Is there any chance we'll see a version without the hex background? It's going to eat all my ink.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2016 00:13
|
|
|
 i never thought i'd see this day
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2016 00:25
|
|
|
xiw posted:
What is this from?
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2016 00:47
|
|
|
Haha what system is that?
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2016 00:47
|
|
|
Powered by the Apocalypse: Shadowrun?
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2016 01:00
|
|
|
Why does it specify it both hits and explodes on a 10+? I was planning on conking the dude in the noggin with it and now I need to create a custom move.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2016 02:04
|
|
|
ShineDog posted:Hi! I know the impulse drive guy posts in here. Is there any chance we'll see a version without the hex background? It's going to eat all my ink. I'll hook you up! I'll add an ink-friendly version as a ZIP file to the DTRPG product in the next few days. I'm in the process of reorganizing all the handouts to minimize printing and maximize information access.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2016 04:07
|
|
|
ShineDog posted:Hi! I know the impulse drive guy posts in here. Is there any chance we'll see a version without the hex background? It's going to eat all my ink. In fact, here's a link now! https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4w2ZvCSYT6AY3JDSkVqejJub2c?usp=sharing this version is a little bit newer than the current DTRPG version, with only minor changes. Click on the Clean version to get the documents sans backgrounds. Enjoy!
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2016 04:19
|
|
|
Nice, thanks Is there a limit to how much strain you can burn in a session btw, or can you just burn plot fuel in place of harm for a good while? I understand that's much worse for you, long term, but I'm not sure my players will grok that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2016 19:22
|
|
|
ShineDog posted:Nice, thanks Go ham on it. The first few options in Calamity are designed to be somewhat beneficial to get players used to the idea of burning Stress - especially until they've gotten some gear that can mitigate Harm. I would even suggest, that when you deal out a big wad of Harm, you actively ask the player "Are you gonna take all of that, or turn some into Stress?"
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2016 23:42
|
|
|
OK cool. Lastly, if I was playing in a more setting that didn't have, say, personal energy shields available. Would you recommend any tweaks? I considered allowing adding a universal dodge move that was functionally a shield - IE, can be recharged after a breather.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 01:27
|
|
|
ShineDog posted:OK cool. Lastly, if I was playing in a more setting that didn't have, say, personal energy shields available. Would you recommend any tweaks? I considered allowing adding a universal dodge move that was functionally a shield - IE, can be recharged after a breather. Yeah, you could make Harm you deal a soft move and give the players an opportunity to act quick, or fictionalize shields as an action the players can take to mitigate the Harm they're suffering - as a resist or evade 'Move'
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 06:03
|
|
|
Monsterhearts Cuckoo skin questions, courtesy of a Cuckoo player: 1. How much of someone's clothing do they need? The book suggests very little; my read of their sex-related advice is that if they're in their socks or whatever, they can keep up their shapeshifting. On the other hand, does this mean you can be dressed normally and in someone's socks and shapeshift to being them in mostly your clothes? That seems counter to their thing. 2. Do they need to know who they're changing into? The thrift store suggestion in under the second skin suggests no, but OTOH it seems weird as hell to be able to pass as someone if you don't know who you're being.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2016 20:21
|
|
|
I don't think there are "official" answers on either thing, but personally: 1. I'd say they have to have enough for the other person to be able to miss/recognize the clothes if they see them, due to the power of DRAMA. So, if they're super distinctive socks, then sure, (because you've got a part of their identity, if you need a magic justification) but otherwise, nah. 2. I'd lean towards no. Partly because if clothes get confused, turning into someone unexpected could be quite interesting. Also, if they're interested in doing some tag popping, it could be fun to see where it goes. But, I wouldn't really blame an MC that wanted to keep things simpler by saying that if someone gives them to charity, then they aren't anyone's clothes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2016 21:02
|
|
|
spectralent posted:Monsterhearts Cuckoo skin questions, courtesy of a Cuckoo player: 1) I think the sex-related advice is for them taking off clothing. For being able to shapeshift in the first place I'd say they need something like shirt and pants. 2) My interpretation of the thrift store suggestion is that the Cuckoo could get those clothes from someone they already want to impersonate who is giving them away. Presumably if they get them soon enough, it'll still count as "their" clothes even if they don't own it anymore.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2016 21:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 06:40 |
|
|
My read of the cuckoo is that the shapeshifting relies on the target's feelings of ownership. Wearing someone's socks would work if that person cares about their socks, but if (and I'm stretching here, I know) they're from a group home that shares a big bin of socks, that wouldn't work. Similarly, when someone decides to get rid of their clothes they lose the emotional connection the cuckoo requires for their shapeshifting.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2016 21:34
|
|
