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I got the feeling that new guests aren't arriving each day - it's something like a two week cycle. We just only saw that first day in the first episode. Although it makes sense to accommodate guests arriving at anytime, and presumably the man in black has been there for a long time and interacts with Dolores on several of the "first days". Also, I think it's stated that there are 1400 guests and 2000 hosts. Can someone confirm the # of guests?
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Oct 12, 2016 15:48
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indigi posted:based on the place William/Lawrence arrived at and the place we see Ford prowling around in, it seemed was an old train station or arrival area for the guests that got shut down when they opened a new facility. Because Battlestar Galactica? The show is a slow-build with layers of mystery, and at some point a reveal like that would be a fun reality-questioning plot twist to ramp up tension, especially if it comes with the resolution of a smaller mystery. In two episodes, seems to me that the themes include black/white, violence/empathy, real/unreal, plus a heaping dose of "everything is more complicated than it seems." Ford even took the indulgently violent and self-absorbed story Lee crafted and threw it out. He doesn't want Westworld to be obvious--he wants subtle, detailed, and complex. He's probably also a control freak who doesn't like to share his plans before executing them--ie, using a robot-kid for companionship while he's roaming the park. He talked about magic, showed off with the rattlesnake, then casually dismissed both snake and kid with a wave. That's a lonely man, but also one who needs to be in control. The only reason to not do a human-as-host reveal would be it being too obvious. I think they'll go for it anyway. Right now, everything is park/real-world and guest/host. If that doesn't get blurred before the end of the season, it's not the show I want it to be.
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Oct 12, 2016 15:57
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indigi posted:based on the place William/Lawrence arrived at and the place we see Ford prowling around in, it seemed was an old train station or arrival area for the guests that got shut down when they opened a new facility. It's not completely unused. Well, the line is still in use even if the station isn't. In a real blink-and-you'll-miss-it bit a train goes past very fast just before he takes the elevator up to the surface. EDIT - just rewatched it and it was actually the train Ford took to the station leaving. It went from standing start to super fast in the blink of an eye. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Oct 12, 2016 |
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Oct 12, 2016 16:04
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indigi posted:well, this isn't hard sci fi, not by a long shot. it's much more along the lines of soft, meditative, almost magical-realist at times sci fi of guys like Philip K Dick, Stanislaw Lem, and early Kurt Vonnegut. it's way more interested in exploring the nature of reality and what it means to be human by way of these settings than it is with technology, or providing elaborate explanations to ground every single plot point. If that was clearly the case I'd be more eager to watch the third episode, but with the authors you mention technology-related questions aren't nagging because they're never in focus. Here the show goes into tech details in some cases and dismisses them in others. It just feels odd to me. indigi posted:there's no danger involved in paintball or airsoft, but people have a ton of fun playing them. that's kind of the point; there's no real danger, but there's still winning and losing. They're fun because both sides play with the same rules. Here, guests don't seem to be bound by any rules whatsoever. I realize that's not going to be the case for very long, but it's still a pretty strange (lazy?) way to kick things off. Zaphod42 posted:IDK man I'm loving every loving minute. This is one of the best produced and written TV shows I've seen in years. I thought Dollhouse was absolutely fantastic while exploring similar themes. Tastes differ and all that, but Westworld is at best lukewarm to me.
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Oct 12, 2016 16:42
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Pixelante posted:Because Battlestar Galactica? They already established that blurriness right at the beginning with Teddy. You're introduced to him thinking he's a dude into role playing on a train to role play fantasy island, then they do the old switcherooni with the man in black. I don't think they need to do any more 'what if the robo is a person' or vice versa, it wouldn't really add anything besides just being a 'gotcha!' moment.
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Oct 12, 2016 16:53
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Oct 12, 2016 17:01
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Unlike Game of Thrones, Westworld would be well served cutting most of the Crichton out of itself, keeping only the core ideas. If it follows the movie, it will be very disappointing. All popcorn and no pondering.
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Oct 12, 2016 17:39
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Pity Party Animal posted:Unlike Game of Thrones, Westworld would be well served cutting most of the Crichton out of itself, keeping only the core ideas. If it follows the movie, it will be very disappointing. All popcorn and no pondering. Dunno why you're even making a big deal out of this when just 2 episodes in the show has already deviated heavily from the movie...
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Oct 12, 2016 17:41
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Hi Jinx posted:They're fun because both sides play with the same rules. this is false as hell. there's always cheaters who go outside the demarcated area to sneak closer to the flag, or that blotch was from last game, or don't say when a ball hits them but doesn't break, or empty out their hopper into their friend's before coming out to surrender, or a bunch of other corny bullshit. but it's still fun.
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Oct 12, 2016 18:11
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Yak of Wrath posted:The given amount of killing you do in the "good" path of New Vegas, and your apparent lack of PTSD from it, mayhaps you should also be reflecting on your own nascent sociopathy. Makes u think. Lol, fighting back against people who are attacking me is worlds apart from actively looking for people to murderfuck, though, isn't it? Intent is what matters. I've played through all the GTA games too, and never went out of my way to hurt people, because hurting people slows down my acquisition of worldly goods in those games most of the time. Violence is never, ever, my first resort, because I'm a filthy roleplayer who wants to see the story. Even when I go bad, I'm not Logan bad. Skizzzer posted:Yeah, I did. For Grand Theft Auto. A game that markets itself partly on wanton destruction. Enjoying a game like this doesn't make me a sociopath. Liking Mortal Kombat doesn't mean I'm a serial killer. Playing Stardew doesn't make me a farmer. Okay, I'm not attacking you personally so I'm sorry if I came across that way, I'm just curious as to the reasoning behind not caring sometimes. That's all.
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Oct 12, 2016 18:18
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:I'm just curious as to the reasoning behind not caring sometimes. That's all. Because it's fiction. Just because someone says, writes or whatevers a thing, doesn't mean they will eventually do the thing. Stephen King has made a nice career out of making poo poo up, that is truly loving awful.
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Oct 12, 2016 18:25
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I started a sociopath run of New Vegas because I played through as a good guy in like five different ways in five complete playthroughs already. But then I got bored and stopped. 
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Oct 12, 2016 18:29
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In regards to the lack of danger, it's been mentioned that guests can adjust the amount of pain that they feel from getting shot. Ed Harris obviously keeps his very low, simply because he's been there and done that, but a guest interested in a challenge would dial it all the way up and wander off into Indian Country.
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Oct 12, 2016 18:36
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjUdLJQwIxg
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Oct 12, 2016 18:46
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Okay, maybe-already-covered-and-almost-certainly-flawed half baked theory about the guns. The little butterfly kiss puffs are a redundant safety measure, not the primary one. If you're paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for an authentic Wild West experience, getting hit by fake bullets is going to take away from the realism. It'd make more sense if the Hosts had terrible aim. Like during the town massacre, Bad Bart even makes a comment about the Righteous being bad shots. That could be because they wanted the bandits to take all the bad firmware Hosts out of production, but Bart probably wouldn't have said that if it was an one-off occasion. More likely everyone's a terrible shot unless the story says otherwise, which gives Newcomers an opportunity to save the day. It also means Newcomers won't get hurt if they get caught in a crossfire. The only Guest we've seen shot is the MiB. I mean, we're only two episodes in so maybe other people will get shot in non-lethal ways soon, but everyone who has shot the MiB seems awfully surprised at the result. Like they don't view him as a Newcomer anymore even if the safety measures still know he's human. So he's either proving or disproving my theory depending on what's different about him compared to regular Guests.
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Oct 12, 2016 18:51
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Wait, why do some people think that the cycle is daily when they said that they had the gang attack a week early?
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Oct 12, 2016 18:55
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Lycus posted:Wait, why do some people think that the cycle is daily when they said that they had the gang attack a week early? Because people can't understand that different hosts can have their own time loop that they proceed through. And the ones in town, as has already been mentioned, would be on the shortest loops, for the sake of new players. The ones further out from town can be on much longer story lines.
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Oct 12, 2016 18:56
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Hi Jinx posted:Is anyone else disappointed by this show? I mean, Deadwood meets Dollhouse sounds awesome, but the first two episodes left me really disappointed. 
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Oct 12, 2016 19:22
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Okay, I'm not attacking you personally so I'm sorry if I came across that way, I'm just curious as to the reasoning behind not caring sometimes. That's all. Fair enough. I can't explain why everyone else does it, but I think it's important to note that when players "hurt" NPCs or even other players (say, in CoD or Overwatch) - no one is actually getting hurt. That NPC I just ran over is not indicative of how I actually treat pedestrians when I drive. In some games, violence is the point of that game. In almost every other game, conflict is the point. Whether that's problematic as a whole, I don't know, but I do take issue with asserting that players are sociopathic just because they went down the evil route in New Vegas. Like the other guy said, if you're going to do that, then you should indict the creators of the game rather than the players for choosing a path that was created for them. But if you go down that route, you could also very well point your finger at directors and writers too who've created violent films, shows, and books. That approach, I think, is problematic, but is the natural extension of your line of thinking.
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Oct 12, 2016 19:24
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I do have to agree that the zero risk thing bothers me, only because the guests would probably get annoyed with it after a time. That said, that ZERO danger thing is very common in a place like Disneyland, but I really think they should have added some way to "lose" when you leave the safe starting area. They do mention their "most skilled players," but there's little skill with Godmode on.Skizzzer posted:Fair enough. I can't explain why everyone else does it, but I think it's important to note that when players "hurt" NPCs or even other players (say, in CoD or Overwatch) - no one is actually getting hurt. That NPC I just ran over is not indicative of how I actually treat pedestrians when I drive. In some games, violence is the point of that game. In almost every other game, conflict is the point. Whether that's problematic as a whole, I don't know, but I do take issue with asserting that players are sociopathic just because they went down the evil route in New Vegas. Like the other guy said, if you're going to do that, then you should indict the creators of the game rather than the players for choosing a path that was created for them. But if you go down that route, you could also very well point your finger at directors and writers too who've created violent films, shows, and books. That approach, I think, is problematic, but is the natural extension of your line of thinking. As someone who has spent many trips in GTA Online hurling C4 out the window at pedestrian cars purely for kicks, I can attest that in a completely unreal environment, it's awesome to just see poo poo BLOW UP. It never even occurs to me (for good reason in the real world) I just blew up 20 people trying to drive home from work. It's not even why I'm doing it. But if those NPCs were gaining sentience it'd be horrifying with me laughing my rear end off with the others in the car, shortly before the driver power slides over an old woman and everyone gets a chuckle of the physics. There's a disconnect there. I really think that one scene in the show summed it up both: People don't want 100% accurate emotional response, they don't REALLY want to MURDER someone, they want to have that disconnect knowing it's not real like we have now. If you actually gave every single NPC in a GTA game full emotional simulation, it'd be a horrifying thing by comparison. ED: All this talk of New Vegas and GTA... what the gently caress would people do in a Goddamn Saints Row theme park? Jesus. "Aahaha I just shot this guy through the air after ramming a giant alien dildo up his rear end!" might make the horrors in Westworld look good from their POV. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Oct 12, 2016 |
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Oct 12, 2016 20:01
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Krispy Kareem posted:Okay, maybe-already-covered-and-almost-certainly-flawed half baked theory about the guns. MAYBE they are actually energy pistols, the flash/bang/powder is all for effect. A REAL laser pistol wouldn't even be visible, so maybe it's a variation on that? If they don't go that way they should have just said the guns are programmed to not fire when aimed at a visitor and are magic nanotech, I'd buy that. But the click-bangs and no impact on the guy made that (alone, anyway) impossible. I mean it'd have to be part of it still. I really hope they don't just ignore this the whole series. I'll take a bullshit tech-tech answer, just give us an answer.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:11
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Gorilla Salad posted:I couldn't help thinking about the potential of a real life machine capable of making people, horses, coyotes, snakes and so on. Why stop there? Why limit yourself to recreating real things? Why just a "real" setting like Westworld? They do mention that he was from a horror-themed game. That doesn't necessarily mean Westworld horror. For all we know there could be a SpaceWorld, RomanWorld, etc. out there as well. Or perhaps they are in the works; we've not been allowed to see much of the greater universe yet. And obviously they have big plans beyond a theme park, or at least, the company does. They made that real clear.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:16
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This discussion reminds me of those, 'Do children understand the difference between tv and reality, between video games and reality?,' censorship debates from the 90s.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:16
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indigi posted:oh totally, but if their endgoal was to make cashiers, tour guides, and fuckbots, they're already there by a country mile; they could be marketing them already. that's why I think whatever ulterior motive the Dutch boss-lady was hinting at must be something grander/more sinister, but probably not as pedestrian as coal miners/soldiers I'd guess off-world slave labor, or if they're really sinister, to replace people they don't like.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:18
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King Vidiot posted:I started a sociopath run of New Vegas because I played through as a good guy in like five different ways in five complete playthroughs already. But then I got bored and stopped. I play a good guy in most RPGs because I like to roleplay a tiny bit and I like to help people, sometimes I start an evil run and then I like the NPCs and feel bad so I switch. But Fable, that's a game where I didn't give a poo poo about any of the annoying NPCs, and so every time I started a good run (which was just tedious work to level / maintain) I'd get halfway through and then go "gently caress it" and get super murder-happy until I had horns and tatoos and poo poo. It all depends upon the environment.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:23
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Blazing Ownager posted:They do mention that he was from a horror-themed game. That doesn't necessarily mean Westworld horror. HBO wants to get a few years out of this - which means they're going to need some subplots or flashback episodes. It wouldn't surprise me if a secondary plot line followed a WestWorld staff member to another of their properties. They could even have the same cast. Teddy in Medieval World. 
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Oct 12, 2016 20:23
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They should just outright have Game of Thrones world and reuse all the sets and props for that. Then go through any other standing set they have.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:31
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Blazing Ownager posted:They do mention their "most skilled players," but there's little skill with Godmode on. If you're tracking a bounty through untamed badlands, solving a murder mystery in saloon, chasing down stagecoach bandits from horseback, swindling an oil baron out of his stake in a game of poker, plotting a train heist, seducing the daughter of a Mexican governor, trying to expose the charismatic Shakespeare-quoting leader of a secluded, pagan-protestant cannibal cult, or most of the other million of things to do in Westworld, I don't think being bulletproof will help too much People focus too much on "Godmode makes Westworld too easy, why would people even pay for this/it's not really a challenge or a game". But WW isn't Doom; it's not even New Vegas. This painstakingly-crafted, completely immersive world is designed with every imaginable detail and adventure, where someone like The Black Hat spends almost literally a lifetime exploring and 'playing' it Their head writer is a dweeb, but you can almost understand why: Westworld is the game writer/scenario designer/dungeon master's ultimate dream and ultimate challenge. Everyone above cool and collected, largely doing cleanup or maintenance to ensure the ship's waterproof, but the folks in Creative almost have to be manic caricatures if they're being saddled with the responsibility of creating a world from nothing tin can made man fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Oct 12, 2016 |
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Oct 12, 2016 20:32
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Accretionist posted:This discussion reminds me of those, 'Do children understand the difference between tv and reality, between video games and reality?,' censorship debates from the 90s. It should, because it's one of the main themes of the show.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:33
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hobbesmaster posted:They should just outright have Game of Thrones world and reuse all the sets and props for that. I wonder how much of Deadwood was repurposed for Westworld, if any.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:37
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You just have to design quests where losing doesn't depend on the player dying. Failing to work out the clues and find the treasure in time, failing to save the damsel in distress, etc.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:43
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Blazing Ownager posted:
Yeah, agreed. I'll save scum like a motherfucker if there's NPCs I care about (Wrex!). Whereas the NPCs in GTA will have a couple of scripted lines, but are otherwise there to be hosed around with. If it somehow turns out these NPCs are sentient - yeah, that's goddamn horrifying. Zaphod42 posted:I wonder how much of Deadwood was repurposed for Westworld, if any. Aren't they reusing the set for Westworld? I thought there was an article on it.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:43
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Zaphod42 posted:I wonder how much of Deadwood was repurposed for Westworld, if any. Pretty sure it was torn down. I think that was part of the reason they're reluctant to do a final movie, they'd have to rebuild most of it.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:44
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Yeah I remember reading an article that basically interpreted the sets being torn down as the nail in the coffin that Deadwood wouldn't be coming back.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:49
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seaborgium posted:Pretty sure it was torn down. I think that was part of the reason they're reluctant to do a final movie, they'd have to rebuild most of it. Yeah that's what I thought too. They did say that game of thrones probably wouldn't have happened if they hadn't made a lot of mistakes and learned things the hard way with Rome first, so could be Deadwood still taught them things about western style sets and filming on those styles of locations that they incorporated into westworld. Lycus posted:You just have to design quests where losing doesn't depend on the player dying. Failing to work out the clues and find the treasure in time, failing to save the damsel in distress, etc. Exactly. Like, when Maeve was about to get scalped by Native Americans, the Native Americans were attacking villagers and they were at war, but they were all hosts. Then man in black shows up and fucks up both the sides. If your "win condition" was "save the villagers from the Native Americans" you could still lose even if you survive. You set out to save everybody as the hero, but you return to town a failure and have news spread that the villagers were all massacred. Or maybe you're trying to help the Native Americans fight the white man off their land and you fail and they get slaughtered by Custer's troops or something.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:49
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Lycus posted:Wait, why do some people think that the cycle is daily when they said that they had the gang attack a week early? Goons are notoriously bad at paying attention.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:49
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Lycus posted:Wait, why do some people think that the cycle is daily when they said that they had the gang attack a week early? Because the flow of time on the show hasn't been super clear. I picked up on this right away but then goons had me doubting myself even, its not super obvious. It does seem like we're jumping around following the perspective of the hosts though, at least in episodes 1 and 2, and so time hasn't been day by day. We've skipped days.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:52
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duz posted:Goons are notoriously bad at paying attention. We need this as a sticky in TV/IV.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:52
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I get that the story lines get longer the farther out of town you go. I believe it is $40,000 a day to stay in the park. This means you would have to pay more money to be able to do the long story lines. What if you only payed for a day and your time is up before you finished your stuff. Also, how many whores are there in town. If they get "used" do they retire for the day or do they clean themselves up or what.
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Oct 12, 2016 21:13
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Wizgot posted:I get that the story lines get longer the farther out of town you go. I believe it is $40,000 a day to stay in the park. This means you would have to pay more money to be able to do the long story lines. What if you only payed for a day and your time is up before you finished your stuff. It's a minimum of a week stay maximum of 4 weeks stay. Your mother is available year round.
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Oct 12, 2016 21:19
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