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I think in Southeast and East Asia you're gonna want to develop a province up to it every time, it takes hundreds of years for Renaissance and Printing Press to make their way over there naturally. And yeah I shoulda thought to delay the spread for as long as possible to China- I was dismayed after I developed Seoul to a renaissance center and found it was taking hold across the Yellow Sea in China markedly faster than it was in the neighboring Korean provinces. China gets so much development, stuff spreads super fast there.
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Oct 13, 2016 17:06
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Wafflecopper posted:Did the patch do something funky to forts? I'm playing Portugal, allied with Spain and have some dudes seiging Granada. I tried to split some off but they can't move anywhere are all, even over the border into Spain, who are in the war with me. There are no other hostile forts in the area. That's the same old weirdness about Fort ZoCs. Sometimes they make sense, other times they just don't.
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Oct 13, 2016 18:06
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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I beat 3 coalition wars in a row as Mossi, AE gain does seem higher but you could always offset that by preemptively improving relations and using diplomacy.
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Oct 13, 2016 18:24
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I finally got Printing Press as Pomerania, in 1574. A little while later I also got the long awaited Colonialism, in 1577. Good god that took 77 loving years to reach northern Germany? What the hell? 
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Oct 13, 2016 18:27
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Did you have any colonies?
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Oct 13, 2016 18:29
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Yeah, if you have a colony it establishes in just a few years. Honestly I don't really see the problem with tech coast fluctuating like that. It gives periods of strength to different regions of Europe. I'm sure there are some adjustments that need to be made but I really hope they don't dramatically speed up institution spread.
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Oct 13, 2016 18:40
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Koramei posted:Yeah, if you have a colony it establishes in just a few years. I think it needs to be easier for institutions to start their spread, not necessarily increase the rate but relax the conditions for them to start ticking
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Oct 13, 2016 18:58
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You can "force" tech spread, in a way, by pumping development into a high development province. With my capital in Antwerpen this game I've never gone more than a year without adopting a new institution.
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Oct 13, 2016 19:18
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I'm perfectly fine with institutes and actually really like the idea but taking almost 80 years to spread to northern Germany is ridiculous. Especially since it spread so quickly in the Mediterranean instead and freaking Poland and Ottomans picked it up years before me.Buschmaki posted:Did you have any colonies?
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Oct 13, 2016 19:21
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One game is a terrible sample size to judge a system.
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Oct 13, 2016 19:37
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Poil posted:I'm perfectly fine with institutes and actually really like the idea but taking almost 80 years to spread to northern Germany is ridiculous. Especially since it spread so quickly in the Mediterranean instead and freaking Poland and Ottomans picked it up years before me. If you have like 2 colonies going it spreads to all of your ports, or to some ports super fast, or something.
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Oct 13, 2016 19:39
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I managed to adopt colonialism as moss with no portsi 5 years after it cropped up through development with portugal so it taking 80 years to spread to a country with colonies seems insane Did I tell you guys I'm playing as Mossi??? Buschmaki fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Oct 13, 2016 |
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Oct 13, 2016 19:41
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Buschmaki posted:If you have like 2 colonies going it spreads to all of your ports, or to some ports super fast, or something.
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Oct 13, 2016 19:49
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It took me maybe 30 years to get colonialism as Hamburg, I just needed to check every one in a while to see when it hit a lot province near me then get friendly with who ever had it. The port I got it off of was in the Netherlands, but I'm not sure how large the range is so I could probably get it from France or england.
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Oct 13, 2016 20:01
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Is the Aggressive Expansion problem actually bad enough that I should delay playing this expansion?
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Oct 13, 2016 20:22
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No.
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Oct 13, 2016 20:27
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Some real loose lips going around and it's getting a tad annoying!
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Oct 13, 2016 20:38
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Fellblade posted:Some real loose lips going around and it's getting a tad annoying! This happened in my Ottos game last night. Sultan Blabbermouth I of Haasa couldn't loving shut up about the impending attack of Baluchistan or something, got spammed with like fifteen messages over the space of a couple years. Loose lips sink screen real estate.
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Oct 13, 2016 20:43
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Gort posted:Is the Aggressive Expansion problem actually bad enough that I should delay playing this expansion? For what it's worth I wouldn't have realized there were any problems with it if I hadn't been reading the thread, dive in.
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Oct 13, 2016 20:57
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Gort posted:Is the Aggressive Expansion problem actually bad enough that I should delay playing this expansion? No. Maybe in the HRE it's extra bad? But in Eastern Europe its fine and I've seen tons of huge Prussias, so...
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Oct 13, 2016 21:10
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I started a random setup game and noticed that the Renaissance was present in China just shortly after it popped up in Europe. Does anybody know what the conditions are for this to happen? Is it possible to get an early renaissance in Asia in a historical setup game?
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Oct 13, 2016 21:18
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Gort posted:Is the Aggressive Expansion problem actually bad enough that I should delay playing this expansion? Nah, I haven't run into anything game-breaking so far though I've only put a handful of hours in. AE feels a little high but as long as you play smart with it (watch your tooltips in peace deals, improve relations with neighbors, etc) it's not ridiculous. Ruler personality stuff is very cool, different traits will give you additional options for events and affect how the AI works, you can mouse over each trait and it will tell you how it changes AI behavior. Institutions are a cool mechanic, I'm guessing they'll be tweaked for balance a few times since it's a major overhaul of the tech system. Most all nations will end up with higher tech costs on average, I think. New institutions appear in different regions and have different patterns of spread, so you'll spend a good amount of time at +10-30% tech cost no matter what. The Renaissance spawns and spreads rapidly in Italy, in my game it spread to the Netherlands within a decade, the Ottomans and Balkans states picked it up quickly, but the Iberians and north/eastern Europe (Scandinavia, Germany, Poland, Muscovy) didn't get the Renaissance until 40+ years after it fired. Colonialism spawned in Portugal and I'd assume it's going to usually appear in Iberia or maybe England. It spreads rapidly along the coastline and if you are a colonial power. Anyway it's great because tech costs now require strategic planning and investment to grab institutions. Takanago posted:I started a random setup game and noticed that the Renaissance was present in China just shortly after it popped up in Europe. Does anybody know what the conditions are for this to happen? Is it possible to get an early renaissance in Asia in a historical setup game? Maybe by event? Renaissance only spreads to neighboring provinces (including across one sea tile) so it takes quite a while for it to get to Asia and Africa. Like previously when Westernization was a thing, you want to get borders with a European colonizer ASAP and hopefully can be friendly with them so you can steal their institutions. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Oct 13, 2016 |
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Oct 13, 2016 21:21
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Takanago posted:I started a random setup game and noticed that the Renaissance was present in China just shortly after it popped up in Europe. Does anybody know what the conditions are for this to happen? Is it possible to get an early renaissance in Asia in a historical setup game? Sometimes the AI just goes nuts with development so it's possible that's what happened. As mentioned earlier in the thread high development areas get institutions faster so China tends to do very well for itself once they actually receive the institution in question. Economic ideas are now even more powerful. I'd just like to point out here that even with a 100% or higher tech penalty the AI is only a couple mil techs behind me in my Japan game (where I've been sailing on 0% penalty for about 120 years now) so what the penalty means has less to do with 'your tech sucks' and more to do with 'your development sucks' because you're not plowing the excess monarch points into your country which is now actually something to consider important. Outside of admin tech of course, that will take a hit and then you'll get corruption but such is life. Ithle01 fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Oct 13, 2016 |
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Oct 13, 2016 21:36
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I was a little surprised that Innovative ideas weren't changed to give a speed boost to institutes.
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Oct 13, 2016 21:39
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Is there a way to speed up the Renaissance as an African, Indian, or East Asian nation other than conquering towards Europe? It seems like higher development only helps European provinces get the institution
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Oct 13, 2016 21:44
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Poil posted:I was a little surprised that Innovative ideas weren't changed to give a speed boost to institutes. The third idea that gives the tech discount actually had an institution thing added to it now, but I still prefer Economic if only because it makes it easier to light up the specific provinces you want so that a savvy player can optimize the way institutions spread.
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Oct 13, 2016 21:44
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What about large nations self destructing into vassals. Was that fixed in the hotfix? I wanted start a new game but that and the AE problems had me holding off.
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Oct 13, 2016 21:46
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420 Gank Mid posted:Is there a way to speed up the Renaissance as an African, Indian, or East Asian nation other than conquering towards Europe? It seems like higher development only helps European provinces get the institution You know how you get institution spread in a province for developing? You gotta keep developing until the bar maxes out and the institution becomes present in the province. Then it acts as its own center of renaissance/etc and spreads out from there. I did this in my current Korea game and got renaissance just a few years after it appeared in Europe. It takes like ~2000 monarch points to do (make sure to develop an already fairly wealthy province, since you get +5 institution spread in a highly developed province as opposed to like +1 if it's a poo poo one) but if it's the renaissance/printing press and you won't see it for centuries in your region unless you do it, it's worth doing.
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Oct 13, 2016 22:02
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Ithle01 posted:Sometimes the AI just goes nuts with development so it's possible that's what happened. As mentioned earlier in the thread high development areas get institutions faster so China tends to do very well for itself once they actually receive the institution in question. Economic ideas are now even more powerful. Even if the provinces have really high development, the Renaissance won't spread there because they're not in Europe. The only way the Renaissance can spread outside Europe is by colonial nations or adjacent provinces.
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Oct 13, 2016 22:08
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Koramei posted:You know how you get institution spread in a province for developing? You gotta keep developing until the bar maxes out and the institution becomes present in the province. Then it acts as its own center of renaissance/etc and spreads out from there. I did this in my current Korea game and got renaissance just a few years after it appeared in Europe. I wonder if something is weird about Korea in particular, like a province in the wrong region or something? Seems like there's a lot of Korea related shenanigans happening with Institutions.
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Oct 13, 2016 22:37
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So AE concerns aside, what's the consensus on Rights of Man? The features list looks... alright, but  is a pretty steep asking price.
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Oct 13, 2016 22:52
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Fister Roboto posted:Even if the provinces have really high development, the Renaissance won't spread there because they're not in Europe. The only way the Renaissance can spread outside Europe is by colonial nations or adjacent provinces. Uh, apparently you can get institutions even without bordering Euro countries? You can test it yourself. Play Ming, wait for Renaissance to spawn, click on Beijing's institutions tab. Watch as the Renaissance bar goes up when you develop the province. Yep.
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Oct 13, 2016 23:05
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Fister Roboto posted:Even if the provinces have really high development, the Renaissance won't spread there because they're not in Europe. The only way the Renaissance can spread outside Europe is by colonial nations or adjacent provinces. Right that's why I said once it shows up it spreads quickly. It's possible the AI went on a development spree and forced it to happen all on its own and once that happens the chain reaction is fairly quick. I'm also noticing that Korea is going crazy with developing too, maybe it's just because they're a small country that already contains its core culture group with a couple good provinces for cheap development that's forcing the AI into boosting one or two of its provinces into the 30+ range.
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Oct 13, 2016 23:07
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Mantis42 posted:Uh, apparently you can get institutions even without bordering Euro countries? You can test it yourself. Play Ming, wait for Renaissance to spawn, click on Beijing's institutions tab. Watch as the Renaissance bar goes up when you develop the province. Yep. Yeah, this works for all (?) institutions and nations. When you buy development in a province it slightly advances the institution, so if you dump a ton of points into one or a few provinces you can eventually get the Renaissance without waiting 150 years for it to spread on its own. Not sure whether it's intended, seems rather gimmicky. Edit: that means the optimal strategy would be to point dump into developing one province for every new institution so it can be your spreading center. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Oct 13, 2016 |
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Oct 13, 2016 23:11
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Does the amount of Institution gain you get from developing a province scale with how expensive the development is? It makes intuitive sense to dump points into, say, Beijing to make that your tech center but since dev cost grows pretty quickly it might be better to take a smaller province and start your Renaissance in that.
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Oct 13, 2016 23:18
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Mantis42 posted:Does the amount of Institution gain you get from developing a province scale with how expensive the development is? It makes intuitive sense to dump points into, say, Beijing to make that your tech center but since dev cost grows pretty quickly it might be better to take a smaller province and start your Renaissance in that. Yes it seems to scale with the existing development/cost. So going from 10-11 dev nets you a lot less institution progress than 20-21.
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Oct 13, 2016 23:22
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Okay, yea, I really like this system then. It's not really gimmicky either - you're still spending monarch points like you would with Westernization, but now its to develop your nation, and you don't need to always capture South Africa. Plus, since its a ticking malus, the tech modifier isn't quite so bad.
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Oct 13, 2016 23:25
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Mantis42 posted:Okay, yea, I really like this system then. It's not really gimmicky either - you're still spending monarch points like you would with Westernization, but now its to develop your nation, and you don't need to always capture South Africa. Plus, since its a ticking malus, the tech modifier isn't quite so bad. 
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Oct 13, 2016 23:26
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I havent played in a while, and I started a game as Ireland. I managed to get like 70% of the island, but England has the rest (and a chunk of Scotland). Now England has me as their rival, and I am kinda boned. France is weak, as are Castille/Aragon/Anyone. So I tried expanding in to North America to get some more provinces. I got 5 cored... and then it turned in to a colonial state ;_; so I quit because I had been working (and spending a ton of money) trying to get those going, only to have them slip away from me. Does anyone have any advice for this? I can't move my capital west without giving up all my (much bigger) provinces in Ireland. Part of me is thinking I could make subject nations out of all my irish states, move my capital, and then reannex them in 50 years? But maybe I can't, because my capital will be on a different continent and they'll be harder to befriend. Ideas? I'm down for gamey solutions.
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Oct 13, 2016 23:34
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Poil posted:They stack. +50% from colonialism and you get the, say, +15% from not having printing press for a nice +65%. Sure, but in the old system you could start out with a 65% cost penalty, this one ticks up to it. You have time to course correct.
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Oct 13, 2016 23:56
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