Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce

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Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed.
Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce	44	21.36%
ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress	19	9.22%
Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin	9	4.37%
Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country	14	6.80%
ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit	8	3.88%
Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died	24	11.65%
Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country	14	6.80%
ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread	17	8.25%
ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter	15	7.28%
ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming	2	0.97%
Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy	10	4.85%
ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union	5	2.43%
ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die	25	12.14%
Total:	206 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Nationalising a declining industry and being left with 100% of the huge decommissioning costs does not sound like a smart move.

# ? Oct 12, 2016 20:04

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# ? May 10, 2024 13:33

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

Jedit posted:

There is no oil. Revenues are down 97%. And good luck trying to nationalise what's left of the industry when you can't afford to pay for it and you can't afford to replace it. Maybe you can borrow some more from the banks that already aren't going to lend to you because you have no assets sufficient to secure what you owe now?

Oh for god sakes of course there's still oil. The Norwegians have less than us and are making more per barrel than we are.

# ? Oct 12, 2016 20:06

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

The National will tomorrow carry an important piece on the importance of conveying information in the written form.

https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/786281793922043904

# ? Oct 12, 2016 20:16

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

Coohoolin posted:

We push hard left Scottish politics to borrow like gently caress and nationalise the oil.

could you clarify how much "borrow like gently caress" entails exactly? cos if you're still planning on EU membership you're constrained a bit there

# ? Oct 12, 2016 22:35

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Coohoolin posted:

Oh for god sakes of course there's still oil. The Norwegians have less than us and are making more per barrel than we are.

Isn't that purely because it doesn't cost them a fortune to get it out?

# ? Oct 12, 2016 22:37

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

serious gaylord posted:

Isn't that purely because it doesn't cost them a fortune to get it out?

They're getting more money per barrel than companies here are as well, not sure why. I'm also sure not having to subsidise corporate industries to stay in the area helps.

# ? Oct 12, 2016 23:27

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Pissflaps posted:

The National will tomorrow carry an important piece on the importance of conveying information in the written form.

Your one man campaign to make people pay attention to this column is pretty tiresome, but this was good.

Buzzfeed has a pretty decent, if brief (and a bit inconsistent in terms of time frames compared), summary of the SNP's 9 years of government. The unsurprising take away is that their record bears little to no relationship to the celebratory (to put it mildly) claims of some of their supporters.

quote:

Here�s Everything You Need To Know About The SNP�s 9 Years Running Scotland

Ahead of the SNP�s conference in Glasgow, BuzzFeed News looked at what the party has done after nearly a decade in power.

First minister Nicola Sturgeon�s opening speech on Thursday morning will revolve around Scotland�s relationship with Europe and warn the UK government that �Scotland�s voice will be heard� when it comes to Brexit negotiations.
With the SNP�s talk of independence likely to grab most attention during the next few days, the party�s handling of the areas controlled by the Scottish parliament � where the SNP has been in power for nearly 10 years � risks being overlooked.
BuzzFeed News has looked at the SNP government�s record for the past nine years � split up into five main areas it controls � to see what it�s achieved as it comes up to a decade in power.

1. Education

Sturgeon said ahead of May�s Scottish election the issue she wanted to be judged on at the end of her term was education, and specifically closing the so-called �attainment gap� between the richest and poorest children in Scotland.
However, Scotland currently has the worst record in the UK for getting poorer students into university. Despite the government offering free university tuition to Scottish students, 18-year-olds from the most well-off areas of Scotland are four times more likely to go to university than those from the least advantaged areas.
Sturgeon and her education minister, John Swinney, have said making �significant progress� in closing this gap is their priority but have warned that there�s no guarantee it will vanish by the time of the next Scottish election in 2021.
Alex Salmond famously unveiled a statue on his last day as first minister in 2014, quoting himself saying: �The rocks shall melt with the sun before I allow tuition fees to be imposed on Scottish students.�

http://twitter.com/scotsbioteacher/status/534751424857387008/photo/1
Callum M @scotsbioteacher
"The rocks will melt with the sun before I allow tuition fees to be imposed on Scotland's students." Alec Salmond.
4:54 PM - 18 Nov 2014
2 2 Retweets likes

A report from the Sutton Trust concluded there�s no evidence that the Scottish government�s policy of free tuition for Scottish students gives the country an advantage in terms of getting students from poorer backgrounds into university.

The Scottish Conservatives, who back a �graduate tax� on students once they start earning a certain amount, have claimed the Scottish government�s free tuition policy has come at the cost of non-repayable student bursaries, which have fallen from �65 million to �63.5 million in the past year while student loans have increased.

In schools, an OECD report from 2015 shows that despite being a world leader in maths at the turn of the century, the most recent evidence indicates Scotland is now just of average ability among the organisation�s member countries. It also shows there was a 10 percentage point decline in Scottish students� performance in reading from 2003 to 2015.
A different report, from Audit Scotland, revealed that spending on Scottish school fell by 5% between 2011 and 2013, during the first two years of the SNP�s majority government, due to a reduction in staff.
The Scottish government�s own survey of literacy and numeracy in Scotland�s schools shows a clear decline in Scottish pupils� ability in numeracy over of the course of the SNP�s last five years in power.

However, the good news comes when you compare Scotland with the rest of the UK. The most recent PISA figures � which come from international tests in maths, reading, and science � showed that Scotland leads the UK in maths and reading, while England is ahead in science.
The SNP�s manifesto ahead of the Scottish election promised to pump �750 million into the Scottish education attainment fund, and pledged to make sure that 20% of university entrants come from the 20% most deprived areas of Scotland by 2030.

2. Health

The NHS was another clear priority in the SNP�s manifesto. There were pledges to increase NHS spending by �500 million by the time of the next Scottish election in 2021, increase the number of doctors and nurses in Scottish hospitals, and invest �150 million in mental health services.
Scotland�s health lags behind the rest of the UK in many areas, and has done so for a long time. According to figures from the Office of National Statistics, a man born in Scotland will on average live for 76.5 years � over two years less than men born in England, who can expect to live to around 79.1 years.
The stats are slightly better for women in Scotland, who can expect to live for 80.7 years, but that�s still 2.2 years less than women in England, who live on average for 82.9 years. Health in Scotland is a particular problem in Glasgow, where men can expect to live in good health for only 55.9 years, or 77% of their lives.
Although life expectancy has been steadily improving in Scotland, the gap between Scottish and English life expectancy has widened since 1980-1982 for both males and females, according to the National Records of Scotland.

There are good and bad statistics on hospital waiting times.

The Scottish government missed its own target of 95% of patients to begin cancer treatment with 62 days of referral in the most recent figures, with just 89.7% being treated within that time frame. However, the government surpassed its target for patients starting cancer treatment after diagnosis at a high 95.7%.
On mental health, only half of Scotland�s 14 health boards are currently meeting targets for children�s treatment � as a whole, only 77.6% of children and young people are being seen within 18 weeks, short of a 90% target set by the government.
Although the Scottish government has pledged to increase NHS spending by �500 million by 2021, and has increased the budget year on year since it came to power, figures from Audit Scotland suggest that, if the money is adjusted for inflation, the NHS budget actually decreased in real terms by 0.7% between 2008 and 2015.

Despite that, Scotland has the most GPs per person with one GP to every 1,083 people, compared with England where there�s one GP to every 1,338 people and well ahead of Northern Ireland where there�s one GP to 1,445 people.

3. Policing and law

One of the most controversial decisions of the SNP government during its time in office has been to centralise Scotland�s police forces into a single body, Police Scotland.
The unified force was criticised by a UN human rights body in 2015 for widespread use of stop and search without any evidence of wrongdoing, and was condemned for failures in the way calls are dealt with after a seriously injured woman lay undiscovered in a car wreckage in central Scotland for three days.
One of the most debated pieces of legislation introduced by the SNP government is the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, which is intended to deal with sectarianism at football matches. Critics say it challenges free speech and police statistics show it disproportionately affects young working-class males.
Scottish government figures have revealed that Scotland currently has fewer police officers (17,242) than at any time since the end of 2010. However, that is still an increase of around 1,000 from the number of officers there were (16,234) when the SNP took power in 2007.

A report from Audit Scotland revealed that there had been year-on-year real-terms cuts to the police service from 2013 to 2016, during which time its budget was slashed from �1.162 billion to �1.015 billion.
A whistleblower recently criticised the Scottish government for spending cuts to the police after they claimed they were prevented from investigating drug dealers outside of office hours because the force couldn�t afford to pay for overtime.
However, in its latest manifesto, the SNP promised to �protect� the police budget in real terms by giving it an extra �17.6 million.
Recorded crime in Scotland has fallen every year for the past nine years of SNP government, and the latest figures show the lowest rate in any year since 1974. Between 2014-15 and 2015-16, crimes recorded by the police in Scotland decreased by 4% from 256,350 to 246,243.

However, sexual crimes increased by 7% over the past year from 9,557 to 10,273, which is the highest level of such offences seen since records began in 1971. Non-sexual violent crime also rose by 7% from 6,357 incidents to 6,775.
The SNP�s 2016 manifesto pledged to create a new criminal offence specifically to deal with domestic abuse.

4. Economic development

Although a lot of economic levers are reserved to Westminster such as trade, employment, and immigration, the Scottish government is responsible for some aspects of economic development.
In figures released this week, the Scottish government praised itself for economic growth of 0.4% in the second quarter of 2016, with economy minister Keith Brown describing it as �the highest rate of quarterly growth since the start of 2015�.
However, the SNP�s opponents pointed out that growth for that quarter lagged behind that of the rest of the UK (0.7%) and said, over the past year, Scotland�s economy grew at a third of the rate of the UK�s � 0.7% compared with 2.1%.

The Scottish government�s annual financial bulletin, known as the GERS figures, also threw up some challenging figures for the SNP in the wake of the unexpected collapse in the country�s oil and gas revenues from the North Sea.
The figures showed Scotland has an estimated deficit of �15 billion, which represents 10% of its gross domestic product. The fall in oil revenue hit Scotland�s economy hard � the industry raised just �76 million in the past year, compared with �2.3 billion in 2014�15.
In comparison with Scotland, the UK�s deficit � which is the difference between how much a country raises in taxes and how much it spends � sits at �75 billion, which is 4% of the country�s GDP.

However, Sturgeon insisted the foundations of Scotland�s economy �remained strong� after the figures were released, pointing to a �2 billion growth in Scotland�s onshore revenues and to a 50,000-strong rise in employment over the three months preceding the report.
The GERS figures also showed that revenue per person in Scotland was �400 lower than in the UK as a whole, but that public expenditure per person in Scotland was �1,200 higher.

5. Housing

Nicola Sturgeon meets children during a visit to Home-Start in Glasgow, to explain how the SNP will use the new social security powers coming to the Scottish parliament. Danny Lawson / PA Archive/Press Association Images
During 2015-16, 15,854 new homes were completed in Scotland, which amounts to a decrease of 355 homes (2%) on the 16,209 built in the previous year, according to figures from the Scottish government. There was, however, a 4% increase in number of new builds that were started during the same period � climbing to 16,910.
Overall, housebuilding in Scotland declined sharply one year after the SNP came to power in 2007. Over 25,000 houses were built in 2007-08, which dipped to just 17,600 two years later in 2009-10, according to this graph produced by the Scottish government.

However, the SNP has shown a commitment to affordable housing since it came to power. Each year with an SNP government has seen more affordable houses built than in any year of Scottish Labour governments between 2000 and 2007.
Between 2011 and 2016, the Scottish government set a target to build 30,000 affordable homes including 20,000 social rented homes of which 5,000 were to be council homes. It met each of those targets with total of 33,490 builds � 22,523 of which were for social rent, including 5,992 council homes.

In the parliament to come, the SNP of 2016 has pledged to invest �3 billion over the next five years to build a minimum of 50,000 new affordable houses, of which they say 35,000 will be available for social rent.

# ? Oct 13, 2016 11:34

vegetables: Mar 10, 2012

I think I'm right in saying that Scotland's deficit is now over twice the size of the highest deficit in the EU, right? That's terrifying if true.

# ? Oct 13, 2016 11:48

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-snp-conference

Bill for second ind�pendance referendum to be published next week. This a good idea which will end well

# ? Oct 13, 2016 11:51

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Coohoolin posted:

The Norwegians have less than us and are making more per barrel than we are.

What on earth are you talking about? Norway has almost twice the UK's proven reserves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_proven_oil_reserves

# ? Oct 13, 2016 12:04

SixFigureSandwich: Oct 30, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Cerv posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-snp-conference

Bill for second ind�pendance referendum to be published next week. This a good idea which will end well

This looks to me not like a serious bid for independence but more of a way to pressure the UK government.

# ? Oct 13, 2016 12:48

baronvonsabre: Aug 1, 2013

Niric posted:

Buzzfeed has a pretty decent, if brief (and a bit inconsistent in terms of time frames compared), summary of the SNP's 9 years of government. The unsurprising take away is that their record bears little to no relationship to the celebratory (to put it mildly) claims of some of their supporters.

The problem with this is that you can explain pretty much any of these points away pretty easily - I can do it now with just a cursory glance at some of the sources.

Take the education section for instance. I mentioned earlier in this thread how the 4 times less students in Scotland from poor backgrounds is partly due to the general better quality of universities in Scotland (in fact, one of the papers they link to in that article says that the comparative gap for highter tariff universities in England is 7 times), but other points are just as easily explained. The decline in mathematics and reading performance in Scottish schools shown by the OECD report occured mainly between 2003 and 2006, so before the SNP came into power, and it appears to be a UK wide phenomenon rather than just a Scottish issue. The SNP obviously haven't been able to turn it around, but it hasn't declined further either and Scotland still outperforms the rest of the UK on most measures. The decrease in children performing well or very well is probably linked to child poverty increases rather than anything to do with the education budget and I would argue that has more to do with the finanical crash in 2007 and the election of the Tory-Lib Dem coalition than the SNP majority. And while they mention that funding for schools has declined, attainment in key areas actually increased during the same time frame.

Hell, lest you think I'm just saying this to spin it "as actually the SNP are great", you can do it for the other graphs as well. Crime has fallen over time and is at its lowest recorded level ever, but that's in line with the decline accross the UK and Western Europe as a whole, so its hardly something the SNP can take credit for; the affordable housing targets are being met, but it's still nowhere near enough to stave off the problems with lack of housing that we're facing; and while Scotland has more GPs per head, given the distribution of the population in Scotland, I'm pretty sure that if you look closer at those results it'll turn out that people in Scotland have much further to go to see a GP than people living elsewhere in the UK.

Point is, the graphs don't present any kind of incisive picture of how the SNP have done. They're not proof that the SNP are useless except for somehow managing to pull wool over the eyes of the Scottish people and turn them into the Scottish sheeple. They're just isolated facts that you can spin whatever way you want.

# ? Oct 13, 2016 13:11

Extreme0: Feb 28, 2013; I dance to the sweet tune of your failure so I'm never gonna stop fucking with you.

Continue to get confused and frustrated with me as I dance to your anger.

As I expect nothing more from ya you stupid runt!

Angus Robertson won the deputy contest with 52.5% so there's that I guess.

# ? Oct 13, 2016 22:29

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

Extreme0 posted:

Angus Robertson won the deputy contest with 52.5% so there's that I guess.

a clear mandate for Hard Angus

# ? Oct 13, 2016 22:35

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

A fresh outrage:

https://twitter.com/johnnyTR70/status/786806494314369024

Also depressing to hear Swinney erroneously state that the SNP 'reserve the right' to hold another referendum on Scottish independence. He's either ignorant or lying to people.

# ? Oct 14, 2016 10:03

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

I'm not sure which quote you're referring to but I assume he's claiming a moral right rather than a legal one.

# ? Oct 14, 2016 10:18

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

The one this morning on the radio when he said about three times that they 'reserve the right to hold a referendum'. I'm not sure it's possible to reserve a moral right.

# ? Oct 14, 2016 10:21

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Extreme0 posted:

Angus Robertson won the deputy contest with 52.5% so there's that I guess.

Shame. He was clearly the establishment choice, & while he's done a fine job as leader at Westminster, especially at PMQs, it'd have been nice to see Tommy Sheppard win. SNP leadership are in danger of becoming as complacent as ScotLab used to be and probably could have benefited with someone who hasn't been with the part for decades but ho hum. Not like Deputy Leader means much.

# ? Oct 14, 2016 11:50

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

forkboy84 posted:

Shame. He was clearly the establishment choice, & while he's done a fine job as leader at Westminster, especially at PMQs, it'd have been nice to see Tommy Sheppard win. SNP leadership are in danger of becoming as complacent as ScotLab used to be and probably could have benefited with someone who hasn't been with the part for decades but ho hum. Not like Deputy Leader means much.

I don't think there was all that difference between Robertson and Sheppard but it would have been nice to get Sheppard in as deputy. Robertson is amazing at PMQs and stirring poo poo up in Parliament, he should stick to that role.

# ? Oct 14, 2016 11:55

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

Anyone with access past the Herald's paywall care to post the rest of this?

http://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...ers/?ref=twtrec

quote:

SCOTLAND should become an anti-capitalist �laboratory� in which �social friction� would be the price paid for a radically different economy, according to one of the SNP�s Treasury team.

In a forthcoming book, George Kerevan upends SNP economic orthodoxy by advocating a raft of new and higher taxes, including raising corporation tax and taxing house price rises.

He proposes mandatory paid sabbaticals for workers, taxing different jobs at different rates, drafting young people into a �Scottish Peace Corps�, paying unemployed artists a higher dole, and mortgaging state assets to borrow billions for investment.

# ? Oct 14, 2016 12:55

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Coohoolin posted:

Anyone with access past the Herald's paywall care to post the rest of this?

http://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...ers/?ref=twtrec

Just right click on the link & read in Incognito mode.

# ? Oct 14, 2016 12:59

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

forkboy84 posted:

Just right click on the link & read in Incognito mode.

Oh cheers!

# ? Oct 14, 2016 13:08

Chas McGill: Oct 29, 2010; loves Fat Philippe

Coohoolin you live in Aberdeen how can you still think oil is viable for us?

# ? Oct 14, 2016 14:15

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

Chas McGill posted:

Coohoolin you live in Aberdeen how can you still think oil is viable for us?

Because it is? And maybe it's just me but I'm not seeing this unbelievable downturn of vitality in Aberdeen the oil crisis is supposed to be causing.

# ? Oct 14, 2016 14:18

Chas McGill: Oct 29, 2010; loves Fat Philippe

Well, I lost my job, among thousands of other people whose companies are no longer able to operate at the same staffing levels - fair enough, it was unsustainable and the boom period was always going to be finite. That's one of the reasons I'm very wary of using the oil as a prop for the Scottish economy.

Whether you notice a difference in Aberdeen depends on where you fit into the city, I guess. Many of my friends and former colleagues have simply moved elsewhere. I've also moved city to find work in another field, since I'm done with oil.

# ? Oct 14, 2016 15:10

Extreme0: Feb 28, 2013; I dance to the sweet tune of your failure so I'm never gonna stop fucking with you.

Continue to get confused and frustrated with me as I dance to your anger.

As I expect nothing more from ya you stupid runt!

Did John Swinney just outright say that they are still keeping the pound?

What a loving retard.

# ? Oct 14, 2016 19:06

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Extreme0 posted:

Did John Swinney just outright say that they are still keeping the pound?

What a loving retard.

I don't see the point of independence if we keep the pound. For people who've wanted independence as their entire reason for being in politics, god the SNP are so conservative in what sort of independence they want. I wouldn't say we lost the referendum because of the currency question, but it was handled absolutely atrociously during the campaign & definitely cost some votes.

# ? Oct 14, 2016 20:21

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

Chas McGill posted:

Well, I lost my job, among thousands of other people whose companies are no longer able to operate at the same staffing levels - fair enough, it was unsustainable and the boom period was always going to be finite. That's one of the reasons I'm very wary of using the oil as a prop for the Scottish economy.

Whether you notice a difference in Aberdeen depends on where you fit into the city, I guess. Many of my friends and former colleagues have simply moved elsewhere. I've also moved city to find work in another field, since I'm done with oil.

Service industry, mostly, which is having a bit of a boom, it looks like. Loads of places hiring, new restaurants and bars opening up, places expanding. I'm not proposing using oil as a prop, but we can at least stop pretending it's completely worthless.

# ? Oct 14, 2016 20:25

Sion: Oct 16, 2004; "I'm the boss of space. That's plenty."

Coohoolin posted:

Service industry, mostly, which is having a bit of a boom, it looks like. Loads of places hiring, new restaurants and bars opening up, places expanding. I'm not proposing using oil as a prop, but we can at least stop pretending it's completely worthless.

bars will make up for the loss of oil, good point

# ? Oct 14, 2016 20:47

cargohills: Apr 18, 2014

Coohoolin posted:

Anyone with access past the Herald's paywall care to post the rest of this?

http://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...ers/?ref=twtrec

quote:

Referring repeatedly to Karl Marx, the SNP�s sole MP on the Commons Treasury committee

nice

# ? Oct 14, 2016 21:31

duckmaster: Sep 13, 2004; Mr and Mrs Duck go and stay in a nice hotel.

One night they call room service for some condoms as things are heating up.

The guy arrives and says "do you want me to put it on your bill"

Mr Duck says "what kind of pervert do you think I am?!

QUACK QUACK

Coohoolin posted:

Service industry, mostly, which is having a bit of a boom, it looks like. Loads of places hiring, new restaurants and bars opening up, places expanding. I'm not proposing using oil as a prop, but we can at least stop pretending it's completely worthless.

Aberdeen has a boom and bust economy. When it's bust rents go through the loving floor and things start popping up all over the place, hoping they can survive until its boom again. And even if they can't it doesn't really matter because they're owned by development companies anyway who just write that particular operations losses off against their overall tax.

The service industry is hiring because students make up a large proportion of the summer workforce and most of them have gone back to uni or cut down to part time hours. This is common throughout the UK in September/October. If they're hiring in February I'll concede the point.

# ? Oct 15, 2016 01:52

jre: Sep 2, 2011; To the cloud ?

Coohoolin posted:

Because it is? And maybe it's just me but I'm not seeing this unbelievable downturn of vitality in Aberdeen the oil crisis is supposed to be causing.

That's because you're insulated from reality in your student bubble. It's been a horrible time for people in Aberdeen as most folk have a partner or sibling who works in an oil related job. I know multiple people who've been made redundant and had to leave Aberdeen to find another job.

# ? Oct 15, 2016 09:49

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

Town v gown is very much still a thing up there I take it?

# ? Oct 15, 2016 10:02

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

duckmaster posted:

Aberdeen has a boom and bust economy. When it's bust rents go through the loving floor and things start popping up all over the place, hoping they can survive until its boom again.

This is true apart from the bit about the rents.

And the idea that Aberdeen is bustling is risible if you've ever walked down Union Street. There are a lot of units either vacant or worse, cycling through a number of short-lived businesses. I'm seven years in post now and bored to hell with it, but right now I don't dare consider switching jobs because I have the only position in my department that cannot be eliminated.

# ? Oct 16, 2016 09:15

bitterandtwisted: Sep 4, 2006

I saw the Cheviot, the Stag and the Black Black Oil last night. An extremely funny but powerful history of capitalist exploitation in Scotland.
If you are still able to get tickets, I would hugely recommend it.

# ? Oct 16, 2016 13:36

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

The in laws are up in Gardenstown are mentioning that they're feeling the hit from Aberdeen. A lot of people in the industry lived around Macduff/Banff apparently. A lot of properties on the market.

# ? Oct 16, 2016 19:43

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

One thing that does annoy me is that for all the SNP's talk about Trident related jobs not being worth keeping Trident over because we could easily subsidise employment losses, the same arguments are never applied to fossil fuel.

# ? Oct 16, 2016 20:29

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Coohoolin posted:

One thing that does annoy me is that for all the SNP's talk about Trident related jobs not being worth keeping Trident over because we could easily subsidise employment losses, the same arguments are never applied to fossil fuel.

I seem to recall the Greens saying something sensible along these lines and getting roundly mocked in the press for "wanting to turn oil engineers into lumberjacks," but I might be over-stating the sensibleness of the actual source quote/policy. On a purely abstract level (i.e. ignoring the obvious shittiness of people losing jobs and the knock on effects) it's sorta interesting to see what will happen with the oil industry; there's some parallel with deindustrialisation, but I can't help but think that because more high earners are affected the response (from all angles) will be very different.

Have the SNP ever talked about any industrial strategy with respect to managing the decline of the oil industry? Given it's such a flashpoint of discussion around independence, you'd think they'd be poring resources into trying to have something to annouce, rather than just (as it appears at the moment) to be mostly ignoring it and hoping the price leaps back up.

bitterandtwisted posted:

I saw the Cheviot, the Stag and the Black Black Oil last night. An extremely funny but powerful history of capitalist exploitation in Scotland.
If you are still able to get tickets, I would hugely recommend it.

It really is brilliant; saw it last year in Dundee and off to see it next week again at the Citizens. Definitely think it would appeal to everyone in this thread (even Pissflaps, probably)

# ? Oct 16, 2016 22:19

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Coohoolin posted:

One thing that does annoy me is that for all the SNP's talk about Trident related jobs not being worth keeping Trident over because we could easily subsidise employment losses, the same arguments are never applied to fossil fuel.

Maybe because it's not true?

# ? Oct 16, 2016 22:25

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# ? May 10, 2024 13:33

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

Niric posted:

I seem to recall the Greens saying something sensible along these lines and getting roundly mocked in the press for "wanting to turn oil engineers into lumberjacks," but I might be over-stating the sensibleness of the actual source quote/policy. On a purely abstract level (i.e. ignoring the obvious shittiness of people losing jobs and the knock on effects) it's sorta interesting to see what will happen with the oil industry; there's some parallel with deindustrialisation, but I can't help but think that because more high earners are affected the response (from all angles) will be very different.

Have the SNP ever talked about any industrial strategy with respect to managing the decline of the oil industry? Given it's such a flashpoint of discussion around independence, you'd think they'd be poring resources into trying to have something to annouce, rather than just (as it appears at the moment) to be mostly ignoring it and hoping the price leaps back up.

It really is brilliant; saw it last year in Dundee and off to see it next week again at the Citizens. Definitely think it would appeal to everyone in this thread (even Pissflaps, probably)

The Greens got mocked because they had a pretty silly proposal from what I remember, something very shortsighted, and the SNP have been pretty good in terms of renewables all things considered. I do generally agree with the principle of retraining workers for a better industry to smooth a paradigm shift. It's just a pet peeve that we'll happily explain away Trident job losses (even though they're much smaller) by talking about the money saved but we don't talk about subsidising former oil employees with money saved from no longer subsidising lovely oil companies.

# ? Oct 16, 2016 22:37

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