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Huh in America I've never been to a Catholic church that didn't have both species
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Oct 14, 2016 19:48
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HEY GAL posted:what's your policy on international stuff? me, metternich, jcdent, pidan, paladinus, my dad, etc You are assigned a zone based on your continent and you can choose whether or not to ship outside of the zone So you could choose to ship to Europe only or if you're ok shipping outside of Australia or whatever
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Oct 14, 2016 20:15
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Smoking Crow posted:You are assigned a zone based on your continent and you can choose whether or not to ship outside of the zone Enter the santa zone
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Oct 14, 2016 20:47
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Bel_Canto posted:even though Latin Rite Catholics don't practice communion by intinction. Is there a historical reason why Catholics don't practice intinction? My guess would that it seems irreverent for the laity to handle the Host in such a manner, but it seems like intinction would be fine if you're letting the parishioners take communion in the hand now in some places.
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Oct 14, 2016 20:53
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The Phlegmatist posted:Is there a historical reason why Catholics don't practice intinction? My guess would that it seems irreverent for the laity to handle the Host in such a manner, but it seems like intinction would be fine if you're letting the parishioners take communion in the hand now in some places. I've seen it happening quite a lot in that one parish I know where Communion under both species is practiced in every Mass, but elsewhere I don't think I've ever seen that. It is allowed, though! General Instruction of the Roman Missal posted:287. If Communion from the chalice is carried out by intinction, each communicant, holding a communion-plate under the chin, approaches the priest who holds a vessel with the sacred particles, a minister standing at his side and holding the chalice. The priest takes a host, dips it partly into the chalice and, showing it, says, Corpus et Sanguis Christi (The Body and Blood of Christ). The communicant responds, Amen, receives the Sacrament in the mouth from the priest, and then withdraws. (the one parish I mentioned 100% ignored this, the communicants received the host instead and then either consumed it directly or went to the minister holding the chalice for intinction)
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Oct 14, 2016 21:43
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I've only ever had Communion wine twice and it was absolutely horrible both times.
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Oct 14, 2016 21:52
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HopperUK posted:I've only ever had Communion wine twice and it was absolutely horrible both times. I have an ex-girlfriend who, on her 21st birthday, asked the waiter "do you have the wine they use for communion?"
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Oct 14, 2016 22:00
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Thirteen Orphans posted:I have an ex-girlfriend who, on her 21st birthday, asked the waiter "do you have the wine they use for communion?" ...well, did they? My old church used Franzia Pinot Grigio which is probably a heresy of some sort (the trays had grape juice on them too, which is probably why we used white wine instead of the more traditional red.) System Metternich posted:(the one parish I mentioned 100% ignored this, the communicants received the host instead and then either consumed it directly or went to the minister holding the chalice for intinction) Somewhere in the world a Rad Trad had an incredible burst of anger and can't figure out why.
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Oct 14, 2016 23:23
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The Phlegmatist posted:Is there a historical reason why Catholics don't practice intinction? My guess would that it seems irreverent for the laity to handle the Host in such a manner, but it seems like intinction would be fine if you're letting the parishioners take communion in the hand now in some places. mostly because you have to be way more careful about it and that's very time-consuming, as you can see from the rubrics that metternich posted. you'll notice that communion by intinction requires receiving on the tongue, and even the very modern parish where i go most sundays would probably abide by that: they're happy to have people handle the host because it's a discrete unit, but they'd majorly wig out at the idea that somebody might get the Most Precious Blood on their fingers and have to lick it off, or that they might not lick it off and might wipe it on their seat, which would be a major sacrilege.
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Oct 14, 2016 23:53
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HopperUK posted:I've only ever had Communion wine twice and it was absolutely horrible both times. Well the blood of christ isn't supposed to taste good, is it? I'm pretty sure my priest uses wine that's turned to vinegar- I used to be able to smell it when i served as an altar boy. Same goes for the wafers they use for eucharist: the second it touches your tongue the moisture gives it the texture of a horrible gelatinous lump. Maybe it's intentional?
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Oct 15, 2016 00:35
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The Lutheran church I grew up in used Manischewitz for communion. My Methodist church uses only the finest Welch's non-fermented wine.
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Oct 15, 2016 00:58
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Ceciltron posted:Well the blood of christ isn't supposed to taste good, is it? I'm pretty sure my priest uses wine that's turned to vinegar- I used to be able to smell it when i served as an altar boy. No, there's no reason why the wine or the bread should taste bad. One of the churches near me uses very sweet white wine; when I was in college, the parish just off campus used box wine presumably for cost purposes; IIRC my parents' parish buys wine from a monastery that makes it. When my parents' parish still used glass chalices, a number of parishioners complained when they used white wine because it didn't "look right". (Which I guess is a less-obvious reason not to use glass chalices!) Wafers taste bad if they are stale, or moldy, or stored next to something that had a smell, because they are just flour and water. They shouldn't, though.
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Oct 15, 2016 01:45
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Just got back from seeing what was quite possibly one of the best films this year, and quite certainly one of the most important. Birth of a Nation, which if you don't know is about the slave rebellion of Nat Turner, features some very important themes pertinent to this thread. It explores the importance of religion in the lives of slaves, both as a means for white people to compel slaves to obey their masters and as a call to liberation from the shackles of bondage. If you have read James Hal Cone, or anything about slave religion, I would highly recommend you see this movie. If you haven't, I recommend you see the movie and then do those readings.
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Oct 15, 2016 05:00
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HopperUK posted:I've only ever had Communion wine twice and it was absolutely horrible both times. I have a fun story on this. When I was a little kid, my dad served a two-church parish in Appalachia. This being the type of area where he would get invited out to go fishin' with old guys, and when they were out in the middle of the lake, the old guys would pull out a secret thermos and offer a bit of 'shine, the smaller and more rural location in the parish was provided with their Eucharist wine by a fellow who made his own. And I don't know if this is scandalous to the Ye Olde Cristiennes of the thread or not, but the wine he made was white. So it came to pass one Sunday when our family was out of town, and a supply pastor did the service at this little country church. And as he lifted the cover of the communion tray, he thus proclaimed to the congregation "well I don't know how your regular pastor does it, but I cain't turn this water intah wine!"
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Oct 15, 2016 05:19
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Mo Tzu posted:Just got back from seeing what was quite possibly one of the best films this year, and quite certainly one of the most important. Birth of a Nation, which if you don't know is about the slave rebellion of Nat Turner, features some very important themes pertinent to this thread. It explores the importance of religion in the lives of slaves, both as a means for white people to compel slaves to obey their masters and as a call to liberation from the shackles of bondage. If you have read James Hal Cone, or anything about slave religion, I would highly recommend you see this movie. If you haven't, I recommend you see the movie and then do those readings. welp just found out that not only is the director and one of the contributors rapists (one had his conviction overturned and the other wasn't convicted, but uh witnesses say she was intoxicated and unconscious and she killed herself so i'm inclined to believe her testimony) but there's a graphic, fictional rape scene which has the main actor (said rapist) avenging his wife's rape as though that was a main theme of nat turner's rebellion and holy gently caress does that make me completely rethink what i was saying about this film we need films that talk about black resistance and slave rebellion but holy poo poo we did not need this one. keep an eye out if that toussaint louverture movie ever gets made but avoid this one. i wish i hadn't paid to see it
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Oct 15, 2016 05:27
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dammit mo. i'm really sorry. i am completely truthful in that the most anger i have ever felt in my life is toward men who assault women. in a detached egalitarian way perhaps you could count my opinions toward some kind of "oh yes, sexism bad" feel-good TV special. but the reality is that there are at least a few of us out here who are absolutely livid that there is a clown of a boy running for president who is normalizing really grotesque and disgusting narratives about gender relations. I have no answers here but know that, at least in spirit, most everyone here is behind you. There is a lot of hosed up poo poo in the world but we can and will overcome it.
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Oct 15, 2016 05:52
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Lutha Mahtin posted:dammit mo. i'm really sorry. i am completely truthful in that the most anger i have ever felt in my life is toward men who assault women. in a detached egalitarian way perhaps you could count my opinions toward some kind of "oh yes, sexism bad" feel-good TV special. but the reality is that there are at least a few of us out here who are absolutely livid that there is a clown of a boy running for president who is normalizing really grotesque and disgusting narratives about gender relations. I have no answers here but know that, at least in spirit, most everyone here is behind you. There is a lot of hosed up poo poo in the world but we can and will overcome it. i cannot help but think you did not read my posts correctly, but maybe you're really sorry i got excited about a movie and then found out it was made by a rapist who wrote in a fictional rape scene so he could "avenge" rape
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Oct 15, 2016 06:24
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I didn't know about that new movie and have to admit I did a bit of a double-take when I read "Yo guys, let me tell you about a really good and important movie: Birth of a Nation"  re: which wine for the Eucharist, it used to be red whine in the RCC as well, but for several centuries white wine is usually used instead for practical reasons (mostly to avoid spots on the altar cloth and because the purification of the chalice is easier that way). The Orthodox still use red wine afaik. I just found a nice story about how and why the Pope first approved white wine in the liturgy, though I don't know how well attested it is. In the 1470s, there was a priest in the Italian city of Saluzzo named Gino Dante, who was extremely popular with his parishioners, but also a bit clumsy: he regularly spilled communion wine on the altar cloth and - even worse - his chasuble, which must have been really hard to get out of again. Cleaning the vestments always took a long time and a lot of money, and there was the additional question if you even should get rid of the spots when they were caused after the Eucharist, because then it wasn't just wine but the Blood of Christ. Exasperated, the citizens of Saluzzo petitioned their bishop Clemens Bruno of Cueno for the extraordinary privilege to use white wine instead, which Bruno denied: it was the Blood of Christ after all, and not His sweat. A winegrower from Revelo near Saluzzo heared about the city's plight and started to treat his Pinot Noir grapes as he would a white wine, thereby producing a red wine that yet had no colour of its own. The citizens of Saluzzo were delighted and send a couple of bottles to Bishop Bruno, who again sent a bottle to Pope Sixtus IV for clarification whether it was legal to use this as communion wine. On October 8th, 1478, Sixtus replied in a letter in which he allowed the use of this wine and also requested another bottle, but could it maybe be a larger one than the small example the bishop first had sent him? Since then at least white red wine is allowed, and the Council of Trent eventually passed the same legislation that's valid even now, i.e. that it's not important whether the wine is red or white, but that "[t]he wine must be natural, made from grapes of the vine, and not corrupt". Se non è vero, è ben trovato, I guess
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Oct 15, 2016 08:51
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that's called rosé in English, i believe. made from red grapes with the skins removed it's delicious, if not too strong (i find most wines too strong-tasting, and even find that in the stronger kinds of beers the alcohol overwhelms the taste) and i always thought that was why catholics didn't receive under both species, that if you have someone who's standing feeding Communion to someone who's kneeling and the kneeling person isn't allowed to use their hands, there's just too much room to spill it on you
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Oct 15, 2016 13:39
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Not to drag C-SPAM into this thread, but would anyone like to pick apart Jerry Falwell Jr's reply to his students upset that he supports the Orange Bastard?
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Oct 15, 2016 15:30
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SirPhoebos posted:Not to drag C-SPAM into this thread, but would anyone like to pick apart Jerry Falwell Jr's reply to his students upset that he supports the Orange Bastard? I have no idea what any of this means.
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Oct 15, 2016 15:58
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Lutha Mahtin posted:dammit mo. i'm really sorry. i am completely truthful in that the most anger i have ever felt in my life is toward men who assault women. in a detached egalitarian way perhaps you could count my opinions toward some kind of "oh yes, sexism bad" feel-good TV special. but the reality is that there are at least a few of us out here who are absolutely livid that there is a clown of a boy running for president who is normalizing really grotesque and disgusting narratives about gender relations. I have no answers here but know that, at least in spirit, most everyone here is behind you. There is a lot of hosed up poo poo in the world but we can and will overcome it. Over in the C-SPAM subforum, a few nights ago when the first half-dozen or so women went public with their assault allegations against Donald Trump, a regular from the Trump thread started a  getting everyone donating to RAINN, an excellent charity that helps out victims of rape and abuse.Hundreds of goons, each donating 10 bucks or 25 or 50, and even a few well-off folks doing donation matching to the tune of four figures. So far, we're raised over sixteen thousand dollars in the span of two and a half days, and still going strong. It's not just for the politics wonks; everyone's welcome to join in and throw a few more bucks on the pile. It's for an excellent cause, whatever your political opinions. The thread is here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3794070
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Oct 15, 2016 16:48
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Paladinus posted:I have no idea what any of this means. As the flurry of sexual assault allegations against Donald Trump was just beginning, Jerry Falwell, Jr. (head of Liberty University and son of the more famous Jerry Falwell) went on CNN to reaffirm his support for Trump, making the outrageous statement that he'd still support him even the assault allegations were all true. In response, 200 or so of his students drafted an open letter to him:  Falwell fired back with his own open letter: Jerry Falwell Jr. posted:I am proud of these few students for speaking their minds. It is a testament to the fact that Liberty University promotes the free expression of ideas unlike many major universities where political correctness prevents conservative students from speaking out. However, I am afraid the statement is false in several respects. First, the statement claims that a “majority” of Liberty faculty, staff and students are not supporting Donald Trump. It is true that Donald Trump lost in the Virginia primary at Liberty’s precinct when there were many Republican candidates still in the race but, when Mike Pence spoke to many thousands of students at Liberty yesterday, he was applauded when he spoke of the importance of supporting Donald Trump for president. In fact, he received five standing ovations during his speech. The group of students now speaking out against Trump represents a very small percentage of the Liberty student body of 15,000 resident students and 90,000 online students. The group (led by a never Trump activist, I am told) claims to have between 200 and 1200 signatures on a petition but admits that many of these signatories are not Liberty students. The student statement also falsely claims that I am “touring the country” and associating Liberty University with Trump. The fact is I traveled with the Trump campaign only one weekend in January and I always make it clear to the media that my endorsement of Trump is my personal endorsement only and that I am not speaking for Liberty University, its students, faculty or staff. I am only fulfilling my obligation as a citizen to ‘render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s’ by expressing my personal opinion about who I believe is best suited to lead our nation in a time of crisis. This student statement seems to ignore the teachings of Jesus not to judge others but they are young and still learning. Emphasis added. Note that Falwell has since removed that last sentence from the official version on the university website, but it was definitely there at first.
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Oct 15, 2016 17:11
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SirPhoebos posted:Not to drag C-SPAM into this thread, but would anyone like to pick apart Jerry Falwell Jr's reply to his students upset that he supports the Orange Bastard? I don't know if I should be glad or concerned that after reading "Orange Bastard" my first reaction was wondering what William of Orange had to do with Jerry Falwell Jr
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Oct 15, 2016 17:43
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I think I already wrote somewhere in the old thread about the belief widespread amongst early modern Catholics mostly in the Alps that infants who died before being baptised could yet be saved by bringing their bodies to certain pilgrimage churches, where they were laid down on specific altars and immediately baptised as soon as the body showed any sign of life again (i.e. cheeks reddening, or a feather held against the mouth being lifted - mostly explainable due to candles on the altar etc., I'm guessing). I found a votive painting depicting such a baptism: The text below reads: "Anno 1680 on May 14th, the Wednesday of the Cross [a rogation day; though the date is a bit strange since May 14, 1680 was in fact a Tuesday], a dead boy was born to me, Martin Wierer, by my wife Catharina Wiererin, née Oberpodnerin. Therefore we promised an offering and a Holy Mass to the church of the Visitation of Our Lady. So the boy stirred and first changed his colour, before he started to sweat and was dried two times by the midwife. The midwife eventually baptised him." Sadly I couldn't figure out in which church this painting can be found, just that it has to be somewhere in eastern Tyrol. Another pretty unknown Catholic practice of the time I read about just today were the Traufkinder or "eaves children" (as in the eaves of a roof). When the above ritual wasn't feasible for some reason, some parents decided to bury their unbaptised children beneath a church's eaves due to the widespread belief that the priest blessing water in a church meant that all water in and above the church would be blessed as well. Rain dropping down from the eaves on the child's grave would mean that eventually blessed rainwater (which was seen as having special healing powers anyway, seeing as it came down directly from High Above) would reach the grave, being the next best thing to a baptism. For both rituals, virtually only pilgrimage churches were chosen, as only those were said to be "holy" enough for this. Baptising dead children wasn't only an act of love by desperate parents who wanted to give their children the opportunity to enter Heaven, but it was in parts also a protective measure, as unbaptised children were said to be especially likely to become Wiedergänger and haunt the living from the grave; in the Middle Ages their bodies were sometimes even staked before being buried.
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Oct 15, 2016 19:32
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Fantastic post, Metternich Here is an article about a cool-looking church in Russia. Often, Orthodox Christians in the West look to Greece or Russia for artistic inspiration, which to my mind reflects a sad lack of self esteem and possibly an ignorance of history, since the two churches were one for a thousand years. This reverses the trend, it's a Russian church that's decorated according to the style of Sicilian churches of the 12th century, according to the article "without doubt the most sumptuous and refined style that ever emerged in the Byzantine-influenced world." Awww, compliments  http://www.orthodoxartsjournal.org/a-miracle-of-liturgical-art-the-church-of-the-protection-of-the-mother-of-god-at-yasenevo/ The church was built almost completely by volunteers, especially the mosaics and the floor, so this is also a story of an entire community coming together to decorate/build their own church. I don't know if this is just confirmation bias on my part, but the faces in the mosaics look a little bit Russian to me in style, as well as Italian, as though the designer were thinking of her own artistic tradition as well. If so, I like that. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Oct 16, 2016 09:51
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HEY GAL posted:Fantastic post, Metternich 1. A key reason for this is most preschismatic Western churches have had their art destroyed, either by protestants or the pope (stealth protestant) edit: also by things like fire, war and flood (also stealth protestant) 2. La Martorana, Monreale etc are not "Western" art any more than other Byzantine art is. Rodrigo Diaz fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Oct 16, 2016 11:00
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:2. La Martorana, Monreale etc are not "Western" art any more than other Byzantine art is. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Oct 16, 2016 11:05
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:2. La Martorana, Monreale etc are not "Western" art any more than other Byzantine art is. That's why Palermo Cathedral is so interesting, it's got all sorts of stylistic elements.
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Oct 16, 2016 11:07
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HEY GAL posted:would you say the same about ravenna? No that predates the sharper division between the two found in later artistic styles. quote:point is, people who were (albeit distantly) related on one side to me, instead of my friends Bronislav and Fyodora, built the drat things and this is important to me. when i see art like this it reminds me i didn't covert to a religion that was disconnected from what i see as my own history First of all there's no such thing as a bronie slav, how dare you. second I'd say that your history probably isn't fully Western either, for as much or little value as the word has. Disinterested posted:That's why Palermo Cathedral is so interesting, it's got all sorts of stylistic elements. I cried in La Martorana both because it was extremely beautiful and because the baroque addition had damaged the mosaic. Ever since then I have never forgiven the 17th century or the people in it.
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Oct 16, 2016 11:28
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Disinterested posted:That's why Palermo Cathedral is so interesting, it's got all sorts of stylistic elements. 
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Oct 16, 2016 11:28
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  Dog Pope and Nazi Weed Pope bless this thread
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Oct 16, 2016 14:05
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Il Pup-a
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Oct 16, 2016 14:12
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:First of all there's no such thing as a bronie slav, how dare you I'm trying to find that Russian MLP LARP parody of an Orthodox religious procession that got posted in some thread on SA a few years ago, but I can't seem to hit the right the right keywords on google.
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Oct 16, 2016 14:28
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my dad posted:Russian MLP LARP 
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Oct 16, 2016 15:20
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im going to post this again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oqcG1Ws5FE
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Oct 16, 2016 19:01
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Smoking Crow posted:im going to post this again That's...disturbing. You can't keep going without continues if Balrog beats you. And Bison cheats anyway.
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Oct 16, 2016 19:36
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no akuma, 0/5 would not watch again
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Oct 16, 2016 19:43
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"I tried tapping that small icon but no app started up!" "Try double-tapping." 
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Oct 16, 2016 19:56
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System Metternich posted:I don't know if I should be glad or concerned that after reading "Orange Bastard" my first reaction was wondering what William of Orange had to do with Jerry Falwell Jr #balthasargerardwasright #1584never4get 
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Oct 16, 2016 21:59
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