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Wolpertinger posted:Despite the fact that the series will almost guaranteed not play the prophecy straight, Cheshire seems to have the ability to completely rewrite reality around him so honestly a role in the Story is probably the only way to avoid having him retroactively kill you off several years ago the moment you enter the same room. I wouldn't be surprised if they pull a switcharoo and find a way to move the roles around a second time so someone Cheshire completely does not expect is suddenly the Paladin and has the ability to kill him at a crucial moment. Yeah, if he gets his hands on you, you're apparently done (or you're going to wish you were done, in the worst way). Or even in the general vicinity -- there was the bit in the opening of book four or five when he changes the decor in his lobby (and his receptionist's gender) just for the gently caress of it. Just getting close is gonna take a major scam. A lot's going to depend on what Faust's new power upgrade can actually do. That, and whether the first Revanche callback in the book (of the two I spotted) is hinting at something that's gonna happen in the Faust books, or if it's a setup for a spinoff. The Owl is a powerhouse, or at least her last incarnation was, and I don't see her siding with Cheshire. Anything and anyone that gets in the way of her finding Mari is going to get annihilated.. There's also the bit with the Kings, which had to be hinting at something. Daniel's done business with the King of Worms twice now, and when Ecko tried to call on Worms to destroy him, the king wouldn't do it. We still don't know what the kings ARE, but I'm thinking Worms wants Daniel to be his missionary, like Ecko was in ancient Egypt. That said, necromancy really doesn't seem to fit Daniel's style.
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Oct 13, 2016 15:09
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:I don't hate Blood Rites, but it begins the unfortunate foray into the uncomfortable territory of Wraith House. Butcher could have replaced the porn set plot with, I dunno. A play. Or a movie. It would have been a lot less awkward for everybody. The best scene of the book was probably the first one. I'll give him credit for at least not giving us a perspective of scenes being filmed. Barf.
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Oct 13, 2016 22:37
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StonecutterJoe posted:Yeah, if he gets his hands on you, you're apparently done (or you're going to wish you were done, in the worst way). Or even in the general vicinity -- there was the bit in the opening of book four or five when he changes the decor in his lobby (and his receptionist's gender) just for the gently caress of it. Just getting close is gonna take a major scam. A lot's going to depend on what Faust's new power upgrade can actually do. That, and whether the first Revanche callback in the book (of the two I spotted) is hinting at something that's gonna happen in the Faust books, or if it's a setup for a spinoff. The Owl is a powerhouse, or at least her last incarnation was, and I don't see her siding with Cheshire. Anything and anyone that gets in the way of her finding Mari is going to get annihilated.. Even if Faust is unlikely to go full necromancer/crazy cultist, the fact that he's called upon him twice means that it's a slippery slope to do it again - the King of Worms might offer something a little more potent the next time, perhaps even apocalyptic. As far as I can tell, generally he will gladly grant you gifts with no strings attached, it's just that the gifts themselves are so horrifying it's a matter of whether or not you're willing to accept the consequences of them. I wouldn't be surprised if the next gift when he needs a bit of emergency killing magic is something like a plague that would kill thousands instead of just his target, or something along those lines.
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Oct 13, 2016 22:38
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Khizan posted:Harry fucks up his hand. He learns that Thomas is his brother. Introduction of Mouse. Harry learns Ebenezar is the Blackstaff. Harry specifically makes an enemy out of Mavra. Kincaid is revealed as more than just a human mercenary. IIRC, Harry learns that Lash has given him access to Hellfire. I think I chopped that book in half and split most of those bits into books to the left and right of Blood Rites. And I think the most memorable line from Blood Rites was the last: "Why'd you get the large breed dog food?" Finished Rivers of London and enjoyed the ride. The author has some pretty colorful ways of describing things, and Peter's voice is an interesting one. I'm a fan of the magic system, and I dig the gods and ghosts and all that stuff, too.
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Oct 14, 2016 04:42
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The best part of blood rites is the turkey.
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Oct 14, 2016 04:55
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The more you guys post the more I realise that basically everything other than the main plotline in blood rites is pretty good
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Oct 14, 2016 04:59
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I liked Blood Rites  I only tend to skip Storm Front, Fool Moon, and sometimes Grave Peril on re reads. Everything else is somewhere between okay to great, IMO.
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Oct 14, 2016 16:59
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Rygar201 posted:I liked Blood Rites Yeah, I pretty much only actively dislike Fool Moon. Nearly every book in the series is slightly (or more) better than the one before it with very few exceptions: Blood Rites and White Night are not better, but not particularly worse, than the preceding book, and Turn Coat isn't better than Small Favor, but that's just because Small Favor is so damned good, not because Turn Coat is bad. In general, the series gets better with each book, IMO.
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Oct 14, 2016 19:12
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Eh, I can't get past how poorly the White Court is written and Blood Rites takes great pains to humiliate and emasculate Murphy in ways that contribute nothing to the story. There are authors who can handle sex and sex demons well, and Butcher is not one of them.
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Oct 14, 2016 21:58
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I loved White Knight. It's one of my favorite books. I loved seeing Molly realize the importance of responsibility to magic, and it's the first book where Dresden actually makes plans and contingency plans instead of just winging it. The White Court and there plot are okay. They're it my favorite, but they don't squick me out like some posters.
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Oct 14, 2016 22:53
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I like White Knight because I like Ramirez at the duel.
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Oct 14, 2016 23:19
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AllTerrineVehicle posted:The more you guys post the more I realise that basically everything other than the main plotline in blood rites is pretty good Nah the plot is good its the white court thats the problem. The whole series would be better off if the white and red courts swaped places.
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Oct 15, 2016 01:15
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And just finished Dead Beat. Butcher said he wrote this book as a place for newcomers to the series to come in without needing to read all the previous books, and I think it's a fine book for anyone who wants to sample the series. The a-plot is essentially a monster of the week, but doesn't feel like a monster of the week, and showcases Harry Dresden at his best - horribly outmatched at all times and succeeding by his wits and sheer audacity. The book also serves as a sampler platter of the series, with every faction and major supporting character in the series except the Knights of the Cross putting in at least a brief appearance. Dead Beat is also a strong book in its own right, featuring one of Harry's major moments of personally growing as a character at the end, and one of the most famous and beloved scenes in the entire series. Dead Beat is easily my number one favorite book in the series so far in the re-read, and one of my two or three favorites of the series as a whole.
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Oct 15, 2016 01:56
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Azuth0667 posted:Nah the plot is good its the white court thats the problem. The whole series would be better off if the white and red courts swaped places. Except the Red Court is just as bad as the White Court, with the addition that they also actually eat their victims instead of psych-vamping them to death. The actual problem is that, with Thomas being Harry's brother, the psych vampires are cast in a sympathetic light.
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Oct 15, 2016 02:59
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Aerdan posted:Except the Red Court is just as bad as the White Court, with the addition that they also actually eat their victims instead of psych-vamping them to death. The actual problem is that, with Thomas being Harry's brother, the psych vampires are cast in a sympathetic light. Did Butcher ever say how the Jade court fed? I only remember them coming up once in a throwaway line.
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Oct 15, 2016 03:40
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OptimusWang posted:Did Butcher ever say how the Jade court fed? I only remember them coming up once in a throwaway line. They have not been mentioned but that once but I suspect they're probably supposed to be things like the Jiangshi.
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Oct 15, 2016 03:43
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OptimusWang posted:Did Butcher ever say how the Jade court fed? I only remember them coming up once in a throwaway line. They feed on speculation.
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Oct 15, 2016 03:47
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Tunicate posted:They feed on speculation. How inscrutable...
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Oct 15, 2016 05:36
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Khizan posted:I like White Knight because I like Ramirez at the duel.
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Oct 15, 2016 09:25
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He (Ramirez) shows up in a few of the comic books, which aren't terrible! I am hoping we get to see him in Peace Talks since it's supposed to be going back to the Council. He's one of my favorite characters.
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Oct 15, 2016 10:47
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mistaya posted:He (Ramirez) shows up in a few of the comic books, which aren't terrible! I'm really curious about what reactions Dreasden will get from the Council about his apparent return from the dead and his status as Knight of the Winter Court.
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Oct 15, 2016 10:51
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Angry Lobster posted:I'm really curious about what reactions Dreasden will get from the Council about his apparent return from the dead and his status as Knight of the Winter Court.
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Oct 15, 2016 14:13
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FRINGE posted:The usual half-awe/worship and half "burn the witch" I would guess..? And the usual "Under normal circumstances I'd demand your I'd be more concerned about that whole "So what exactly happened to the Red Court?" thing, myself.
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Oct 15, 2016 14:17
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Cythereal posted:And the usual "Under normal circumstances I'd demand your I'm guessing that the scale and mechanics of that kinda magic aren't widely known throughout the White Council. Merlin and Mai and some other older, experienced wizards could probably guess what happened to the Red Court. What happened at Chichen Itza... not so much. They just know it was Bad. Just a few books prior, Harry terrified the old school wardens. The younger wizards ( many of them wardens ) admire him. The senior council is split on what to do with him. Wizards from marginalized countries were hit hard by the war, then again by the Fomor. Harry himself is a huge wedge issue and I kind of wonder if he's the one that will split the White Council apart.
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Oct 15, 2016 15:07
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I am kind of guessing at some point something will happen and he'll be voted in to fill grand-dads Then he'll be infected with one of the Vampire curses, become a Loup Garou, bind an Outsider to himself, recover Lash, and be the first wizard-vampire-angel-werewolf-faerie and single handedly defeat the forces Outside while the entire cast watches!
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Oct 15, 2016 15:18
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:I'm guessing that the scale and mechanics of that kinda magic aren't widely known throughout the White Council. Merlin and Mai and some other older, experienced wizards could probably guess what happened to the Red Court. What happened at Chichen Itza... not so much. They just know it was Bad. Thing is, I think the Senior Council knows things are heading for something very big, and very horrible. Rashid and Ebenezar know for dead certain. Probably Listens-to-Wind, too. Annihilating the Red Court should be a giant red flag to the entire supernatural world that poo poo Is Going Down and things aren't what they used to be. Harry claiming Demonreach, too. I'm working through Proven Guilty, and Michael mentions that only once before has a wizard of the White Council been given custody of a Sword - and that wizard was Merlin himself. Harry's taken care of two. Anyone on the Senior Council worth their salt as an archmage has to know poo poo's getting worse around the world and there have been several major power plays lately. Both in Dead Beat and Proven Guilty, Father Forthill and other characters observe that something is coming - and something is preparing people like Harry. Proven Guilty is making me wonder about something, though. Each Knight of the Cross carries a sword with a nail from the Crucifixion worked into it. There are three Knights, and three Swords - Faith, Hope, and Love. Thing is, there should have been four nails used to put Jesus on the cross...
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Oct 15, 2016 15:22
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I am in no way an expert on this subject, but wasn't it a nail per hand, and a single nail for both feet?
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Oct 15, 2016 15:27
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Speaking of likeable Wardens, I liked the five minutes we saw of Luccio when she was still a crusty old boss lady and I remain annoyed that Butcher just had to depower her and turn her into a hot coed because he needed to make her fuckable.
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Oct 15, 2016 16:31
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Cythereal posted:Proven Guilty is making me wonder about something, though. Each Knight of the Cross carries a sword with a nail from the Crucifixion worked into it. There are three Knights, and three Swords - Faith, Hope, and Love. Thing is, there should have been four nails used to put Jesus on the cross... I sort of want Nicodemus to reveal that his secret weapon are these evil swords made from the nails they used on the thief who was also crucified and mocked Jesus. 
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Oct 15, 2016 16:33
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Russad posted:I am in no way an expert on this subject, but wasn't it a nail per hand, and a single nail for both feet? Mars4523 posted:Speaking of likeable Wardens, I liked the five minutes we saw of Luccio when she was still a crusty old boss lady and I remain annoyed that Butcher just had to depower her and turn her into a hot coed because he needed to make her fuckable.
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Oct 15, 2016 16:40
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Cythereal posted:Thing is, I think the Senior Council knows things are heading for something very big, and very horrible. Rashid and Ebenezar know for dead certain. Probably Listens-to-Wind, too. Annihilating the Red Court should be a giant red flag to the entire supernatural world that poo poo Is Going Down and things aren't what they used to be. Harry claiming Demonreach, too. There's been a bunch of hints that something happens every once in a great while, and guys like Nicodemus and Odin know about it. Nicodemus is on a timetable and doing crazy poo poo to get more powerful weapons, and he's hinted that he has a goal and knows something about what's coming up. I could have sworn he hinted that he missed out on it the last time it happened, and he wasn't going to gently caress it up this time. Ebenezer even said that Odin only pops in personally every once in a great while, when the feces is about to impact the rotary impeller. I'm guessing that the original Merlin knew about it, and if he wrote about it Ebenezer having his journals would imply he knows something about it as well. It feels to me almost like it's a cycle, where every few thousand years some huge confluence of events occurs, kind of like Halloween in the Dresden universe but on a grander scale and one is coming up shortly.
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Oct 15, 2016 18:59
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seaborgium posted:It feels to me almost like it's a cycle, where every few thousand years some huge confluence of events occurs, kind of like Halloween in the Dresden universe but on a grander scale and one is coming up shortly. Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
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Oct 15, 2016 19:06
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seaborgium posted:There's been a bunch of hints that something happens every once in a great while, and guys like Nicodemus and Odin know about it. Nicodemus is on a timetable and doing crazy poo poo to get more powerful weapons, and he's hinted that he has a goal and knows something about what's coming up. I could have sworn he hinted that he missed out on it the last time it happened, and he wasn't going to gently caress it up this time. Ebenezer even said that Odin only pops in personally every once in a great while, when the feces is about to impact the rotary impeller. I'm guessing that the original Merlin knew about it, and if he wrote about it Ebenezer having his journals would imply he knows something about it as well. Could be a changing of the guard at the Outer Gates - we know the faeries weren't the first people with that job, and Harry's starborn thing could well be part of it. That could also be behind the YA setting Butcher talked about doing for Maggie and Mouse, at a special school for the supernaturally gifted. With the world facing a severe case of Things Starting To Happen, not hard to imagine relatively benign groups like the White Council, Venatori, the Alphas, and others joining together to establish a heavily protected school where they can send their children to be safe and learn while things get worse outside. Plus you could have something like Michael Carpenter as one of the teachers there.
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Oct 15, 2016 19:08
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Aerdan posted:Except the Red Court is just as bad as the White Court, with the addition that they also actually eat their victims instead of psych-vamping them to death. The actual problem is that, with Thomas being Harry's brother, the psych vampires are cast in a sympathetic light. I dont think they have the same creepy rape vibe the white court does.
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Oct 15, 2016 19:13
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Azuth0667 posted:I dont think they have the same creepy rape vibe the white court does. ... Their saliva is narcotic and has many effects in common with date rape drugs. I'm sorry that you don't feel like chemically-induced date-rape is as bad as pheromonically-induced date-rape.
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Oct 15, 2016 19:52
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Azuth0667 posted:I dont think they have the same creepy rape vibe the white court does. Re-read the early books, they were really rapey with people getting hooked on their drug-saliva and prostituting themselves for it. Red was basically just as bad as the White court, they just got people physically addicted to being their slaves instead of mentally doing it.
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Oct 15, 2016 19:53
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Azuth0667 posted:I dont think they have the same creepy rape vibe the white court does. I think "creepy rape vibe" is a pretty good description (and presentation) of "magical seduction vampire" though. Like thats about as accurate a result as you could ask for considering the premise.
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Oct 15, 2016 19:56
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I think it's a pretty accurate presentation of vampires, is just tough to then present one of those groups as sympathetic. Or rather to have one of them a a hero character, sympathetic villains is doable and I wouldn't really have a problem with harry having a live and let live type arrangement with the White Court. As long as they're trying not actively butcher people he'll go after bigger threats and you can write them as cursed with a need to feed. That doesn't really work when you want to pull one of them in as a hero and Butcher didn't really do enough personal redeeming for Thomas for the reader to work with. Also rape is a serious thing, some readers are flat out not going to accept a figure who sometimes engages in it no matter how bad he might feel after.
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Oct 16, 2016 13:53
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MrNemo posted:Also rape is a serious thing These books also have people burned alive, melted with acid, and magically-mentally tortured to insanity. Its not like they dance around the various terrible acts that happen to people.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:47
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What I don't understand with Thomas is he actually did walk back the creepy rape stuff by having him run the Salon, and then trashed that with the Nagloshi torture scene, for... no real reason I can see. Thomas regressed as a character and Harry just drops the ball completely on helping him afterwards.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:48
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