Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed. |
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Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce | 44 | 21.36% | |
ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress | 19 | 9.22% | |
Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin | 9 | 4.37% | |
Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country | 14 | 6.80% | |
ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit | 8 | 3.88% | |
Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died | 24 | 11.65% | |
Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country | 14 | 6.80% | |
ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread | 17 | 8.25% | |
ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter | 15 | 7.28% | |
ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming | 2 | 0.97% | |
Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy | 10 | 4.85% | |
ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union | 5 | 2.43% | |
ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die | 25 | 12.14% | |
Total: | 206 votes |
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Nationalising a declining industry and being left with 100% of the huge decommissioning costs does not sound like a smart move.
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# ? Oct 12, 2016 20:04 |
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# ? May 10, 2024 01:14 |
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Jedit posted:There is no oil. Revenues are down 97%. And good luck trying to nationalise what's left of the industry when you can't afford to pay for it and you can't afford to replace it. Maybe you can borrow some more from the banks that already aren't going to lend to you because you have no assets sufficient to secure what you owe now? Oh for god sakes of course there's still oil. The Norwegians have less than us and are making more per barrel than we are.
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# ? Oct 12, 2016 20:06 |
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The National will tomorrow carry an important piece on the importance of conveying information in the written form. https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/786281793922043904
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# ? Oct 12, 2016 20:16 |
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Coohoolin posted:We push hard left Scottish politics to borrow like gently caress and nationalise the oil. could you clarify how much "borrow like gently caress" entails exactly? cos if you're still planning on EU membership you're constrained a bit there
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# ? Oct 12, 2016 22:35 |
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Coohoolin posted:Oh for god sakes of course there's still oil. The Norwegians have less than us and are making more per barrel than we are. Isn't that purely because it doesn't cost them a fortune to get it out?
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# ? Oct 12, 2016 22:37 |
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serious gaylord posted:Isn't that purely because it doesn't cost them a fortune to get it out? They're getting more money per barrel than companies here are as well, not sure why. I'm also sure not having to subsidise corporate industries to stay in the area helps.
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# ? Oct 12, 2016 23:27 |
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Pissflaps posted:The National will tomorrow carry an important piece on the importance of conveying information in the written form. Your one man campaign to make people pay attention to this column is pretty tiresome, but this was good. Buzzfeed has a pretty decent, if brief (and a bit inconsistent in terms of time frames compared), summary of the SNP's 9 years of government. The unsurprising take away is that their record bears little to no relationship to the celebratory (to put it mildly) claims of some of their supporters. quote:Here’s Everything You Need To Know About The SNP’s 9 Years Running Scotland
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# ? Oct 13, 2016 11:34 |
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I think I'm right in saying that Scotland's deficit is now over twice the size of the highest deficit in the EU, right? That's terrifying if true.
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# ? Oct 13, 2016 11:48 |
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https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-snp-conference Bill for second indépendance referendum to be published next week. This a good idea which will end well
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# ? Oct 13, 2016 11:51 |
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Coohoolin posted:The Norwegians have less than us and are making more per barrel than we are.
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# ? Oct 13, 2016 12:04 |
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Cerv posted:https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-snp-conference This looks to me not like a serious bid for independence but more of a way to pressure the UK government.
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# ? Oct 13, 2016 12:48 |
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Niric posted:Buzzfeed has a pretty decent, if brief (and a bit inconsistent in terms of time frames compared), summary of the SNP's 9 years of government. The unsurprising take away is that their record bears little to no relationship to the celebratory (to put it mildly) claims of some of their supporters. Take the education section for instance. I mentioned earlier in this thread how the 4 times less students in Scotland from poor backgrounds is partly due to the general better quality of universities in Scotland (in fact, one of the papers they link to in that article says that the comparative gap for highter tariff universities in England is 7 times), but other points are just as easily explained. The decline in mathematics and reading performance in Scottish schools shown by the OECD report occured mainly between 2003 and 2006, so before the SNP came into power, and it appears to be a UK wide phenomenon rather than just a Scottish issue. The SNP obviously haven't been able to turn it around, but it hasn't declined further either and Scotland still outperforms the rest of the UK on most measures. The decrease in children performing well or very well is probably linked to child poverty increases rather than anything to do with the education budget and I would argue that has more to do with the finanical crash in 2007 and the election of the Tory-Lib Dem coalition than the SNP majority. And while they mention that funding for schools has declined, attainment in key areas actually increased during the same time frame. Hell, lest you think I'm just saying this to spin it "as actually the SNP are great", you can do it for the other graphs as well. Crime has fallen over time and is at its lowest recorded level ever, but that's in line with the decline accross the UK and Western Europe as a whole, so its hardly something the SNP can take credit for; the affordable housing targets are being met, but it's still nowhere near enough to stave off the problems with lack of housing that we're facing; and while Scotland has more GPs per head, given the distribution of the population in Scotland, I'm pretty sure that if you look closer at those results it'll turn out that people in Scotland have much further to go to see a GP than people living elsewhere in the UK. Point is, the graphs don't present any kind of incisive picture of how the SNP have done. They're not proof that the SNP are useless except for somehow managing to pull wool over the eyes of the Scottish people and turn them into the Scottish sheeple. They're just isolated facts that you can spin whatever way you want.
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# ? Oct 13, 2016 13:11 |
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Angus Robertson won the deputy contest with 52.5% so there's that I guess.
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# ? Oct 13, 2016 22:29 |
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Extreme0 posted:Angus Robertson won the deputy contest with 52.5% so there's that I guess. a clear mandate for Hard Angus
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# ? Oct 13, 2016 22:35 |
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A fresh outrage: https://twitter.com/johnnyTR70/status/786806494314369024 Also depressing to hear Swinney erroneously state that the SNP 'reserve the right' to hold another referendum on Scottish independence. He's either ignorant or lying to people.
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# ? Oct 14, 2016 10:03 |
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I'm not sure which quote you're referring to but I assume he's claiming a moral right rather than a legal one.
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# ? Oct 14, 2016 10:18 |
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The one this morning on the radio when he said about three times that they 'reserve the right to hold a referendum'. I'm not sure it's possible to reserve a moral right.
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# ? Oct 14, 2016 10:21 |
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Extreme0 posted:Angus Robertson won the deputy contest with 52.5% so there's that I guess. Shame. He was clearly the establishment choice, & while he's done a fine job as leader at Westminster, especially at PMQs, it'd have been nice to see Tommy Sheppard win. SNP leadership are in danger of becoming as complacent as ScotLab used to be and probably could have benefited with someone who hasn't been with the part for decades but ho hum. Not like Deputy Leader means much.
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# ? Oct 14, 2016 11:50 |
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forkboy84 posted:Shame. He was clearly the establishment choice, & while he's done a fine job as leader at Westminster, especially at PMQs, it'd have been nice to see Tommy Sheppard win. SNP leadership are in danger of becoming as complacent as ScotLab used to be and probably could have benefited with someone who hasn't been with the part for decades but ho hum. Not like Deputy Leader means much. I don't think there was all that difference between Robertson and Sheppard but it would have been nice to get Sheppard in as deputy. Robertson is amazing at PMQs and stirring poo poo up in Parliament, he should stick to that role.
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# ? Oct 14, 2016 11:55 |
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Anyone with access past the Herald's paywall care to post the rest of this? http://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...ers/?ref=twtrec quote:SCOTLAND should become an anti-capitalist “laboratory” in which “social friction” would be the price paid for a radically different economy, according to one of the SNP’s Treasury team.
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# ? Oct 14, 2016 12:55 |
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Coohoolin posted:Anyone with access past the Herald's paywall care to post the rest of this? Just right click on the link & read in Incognito mode.
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# ? Oct 14, 2016 12:59 |
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forkboy84 posted:Just right click on the link & read in Incognito mode. Oh cheers!
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# ? Oct 14, 2016 13:08 |
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Coohoolin you live in Aberdeen how can you still think oil is viable for us?
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# ? Oct 14, 2016 14:15 |
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Chas McGill posted:Coohoolin you live in Aberdeen how can you still think oil is viable for us? Because it is? And maybe it's just me but I'm not seeing this unbelievable downturn of vitality in Aberdeen the oil crisis is supposed to be causing.
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# ? Oct 14, 2016 14:18 |
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Well, I lost my job, among thousands of other people whose companies are no longer able to operate at the same staffing levels - fair enough, it was unsustainable and the boom period was always going to be finite. That's one of the reasons I'm very wary of using the oil as a prop for the Scottish economy. Whether you notice a difference in Aberdeen depends on where you fit into the city, I guess. Many of my friends and former colleagues have simply moved elsewhere. I've also moved city to find work in another field, since I'm done with oil.
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# ? Oct 14, 2016 15:10 |
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Did John Swinney just outright say that they are still keeping the pound? What a loving retard.
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# ? Oct 14, 2016 19:06 |
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Extreme0 posted:Did John Swinney just outright say that they are still keeping the pound? I don't see the point of independence if we keep the pound. For people who've wanted independence as their entire reason for being in politics, god the SNP are so conservative in what sort of independence they want. I wouldn't say we lost the referendum because of the currency question, but it was handled absolutely atrociously during the campaign & definitely cost some votes.
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# ? Oct 14, 2016 20:21 |
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Chas McGill posted:Well, I lost my job, among thousands of other people whose companies are no longer able to operate at the same staffing levels - fair enough, it was unsustainable and the boom period was always going to be finite. That's one of the reasons I'm very wary of using the oil as a prop for the Scottish economy. Service industry, mostly, which is having a bit of a boom, it looks like. Loads of places hiring, new restaurants and bars opening up, places expanding. I'm not proposing using oil as a prop, but we can at least stop pretending it's completely worthless.
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# ? Oct 14, 2016 20:25 |
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Coohoolin posted:Service industry, mostly, which is having a bit of a boom, it looks like. Loads of places hiring, new restaurants and bars opening up, places expanding. I'm not proposing using oil as a prop, but we can at least stop pretending it's completely worthless. bars will make up for the loss of oil, good point
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# ? Oct 14, 2016 20:47 |
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Coohoolin posted:Anyone with access past the Herald's paywall care to post the rest of this? quote:Referring repeatedly to Karl Marx, the SNP’s sole MP on the Commons Treasury committee nice
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# ? Oct 14, 2016 21:31 |
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Coohoolin posted:Service industry, mostly, which is having a bit of a boom, it looks like. Loads of places hiring, new restaurants and bars opening up, places expanding. I'm not proposing using oil as a prop, but we can at least stop pretending it's completely worthless. Aberdeen has a boom and bust economy. When it's bust rents go through the loving floor and things start popping up all over the place, hoping they can survive until its boom again. And even if they can't it doesn't really matter because they're owned by development companies anyway who just write that particular operations losses off against their overall tax. The service industry is hiring because students make up a large proportion of the summer workforce and most of them have gone back to uni or cut down to part time hours. This is common throughout the UK in September/October. If they're hiring in February I'll concede the point.
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# ? Oct 15, 2016 01:52 |
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Coohoolin posted:Because it is? And maybe it's just me but I'm not seeing this unbelievable downturn of vitality in Aberdeen the oil crisis is supposed to be causing. That's because you're insulated from reality in your student bubble. It's been a horrible time for people in Aberdeen as most folk have a partner or sibling who works in an oil related job. I know multiple people who've been made redundant and had to leave Aberdeen to find another job.
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# ? Oct 15, 2016 09:49 |
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Town v gown is very much still a thing up there I take it?
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# ? Oct 15, 2016 10:02 |
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duckmaster posted:Aberdeen has a boom and bust economy. When it's bust rents go through the loving floor and things start popping up all over the place, hoping they can survive until its boom again. This is true apart from the bit about the rents. And the idea that Aberdeen is bustling is risible if you've ever walked down Union Street. There are a lot of units either vacant or worse, cycling through a number of short-lived businesses. I'm seven years in post now and bored to hell with it, but right now I don't dare consider switching jobs because I have the only position in my department that cannot be eliminated.
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# ? Oct 16, 2016 09:15 |
I saw the Cheviot, the Stag and the Black Black Oil last night. An extremely funny but powerful history of capitalist exploitation in Scotland. If you are still able to get tickets, I would hugely recommend it.
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# ? Oct 16, 2016 13:36 |
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The in laws are up in Gardenstown are mentioning that they're feeling the hit from Aberdeen. A lot of people in the industry lived around Macduff/Banff apparently. A lot of properties on the market.
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# ? Oct 16, 2016 19:43 |
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One thing that does annoy me is that for all the SNP's talk about Trident related jobs not being worth keeping Trident over because we could easily subsidise employment losses, the same arguments are never applied to fossil fuel.
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# ? Oct 16, 2016 20:29 |
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Coohoolin posted:One thing that does annoy me is that for all the SNP's talk about Trident related jobs not being worth keeping Trident over because we could easily subsidise employment losses, the same arguments are never applied to fossil fuel. I seem to recall the Greens saying something sensible along these lines and getting roundly mocked in the press for "wanting to turn oil engineers into lumberjacks," but I might be over-stating the sensibleness of the actual source quote/policy. On a purely abstract level (i.e. ignoring the obvious shittiness of people losing jobs and the knock on effects) it's sorta interesting to see what will happen with the oil industry; there's some parallel with deindustrialisation, but I can't help but think that because more high earners are affected the response (from all angles) will be very different. Have the SNP ever talked about any industrial strategy with respect to managing the decline of the oil industry? Given it's such a flashpoint of discussion around independence, you'd think they'd be poring resources into trying to have something to annouce, rather than just (as it appears at the moment) to be mostly ignoring it and hoping the price leaps back up. bitterandtwisted posted:I saw the Cheviot, the Stag and the Black Black Oil last night. An extremely funny but powerful history of capitalist exploitation in Scotland. It really is brilliant; saw it last year in Dundee and off to see it next week again at the Citizens. Definitely think it would appeal to everyone in this thread (even Pissflaps, probably)
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# ? Oct 16, 2016 22:19 |
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Coohoolin posted:One thing that does annoy me is that for all the SNP's talk about Trident related jobs not being worth keeping Trident over because we could easily subsidise employment losses, the same arguments are never applied to fossil fuel. Maybe because it's not true?
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# ? Oct 16, 2016 22:25 |
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# ? May 10, 2024 01:14 |
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Niric posted:I seem to recall the Greens saying something sensible along these lines and getting roundly mocked in the press for "wanting to turn oil engineers into lumberjacks," but I might be over-stating the sensibleness of the actual source quote/policy. On a purely abstract level (i.e. ignoring the obvious shittiness of people losing jobs and the knock on effects) it's sorta interesting to see what will happen with the oil industry; there's some parallel with deindustrialisation, but I can't help but think that because more high earners are affected the response (from all angles) will be very different. The Greens got mocked because they had a pretty silly proposal from what I remember, something very shortsighted, and the SNP have been pretty good in terms of renewables all things considered. I do generally agree with the principle of retraining workers for a better industry to smooth a paradigm shift. It's just a pet peeve that we'll happily explain away Trident job losses (even though they're much smaller) by talking about the money saved but we don't talk about subsidising former oil employees with money saved from no longer subsidising lovely oil companies.
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# ? Oct 16, 2016 22:37 |