|
well overkill is unaffected so you can just do that for a bit if you dont feel like dealing with it
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 05:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 08:57 |
|
|
The 50% HS band aid shows that they are somewhat aware of the problem. Currently it is like someone played PD2 on a spread sheet and thought it was a good idea for everyone else.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 05:19
|
|
|
LuciferMorningstar posted:This timeline is off. You are right that right before Crimefest, we had plenty of alternative "almost CAR-4"s to use, especially in the form of power creep through DLC. The real problem pre-Crimefest was that most guns above 40 did not do significantly enough damage to be worth using. Anything in the 50 range was pointless because the 40 range guns performed better while not changing shots to kill. Anything that couldn't hit 39.4 was fairly sub-optimal, and there were a lot of "almost but not quite there" guns like the old Krinkov. The AK.762 could hit past the 60 breakpoint so it was an alternative to the 40 range guns. The M308 was almost good; DMR kits outclassed it by a wide margin since it could hit much more ideal stats without sacrificing anything except the inherently lovely pickup. I've talked about this with Psion, and Jules' comment about assuming every player takes damage boosting skills as a baseline for balance makes me think they have no idea what to do with these massive damage boost skills. Idiots on the Steam forums keep suggesting that guns just get buffed further, which is absolutely the wrong way to go. I would like to see them redesign or at least nerf some of the big offenders; as much fun as they are to use they are part of what's throwing everything off. Before this event, part of why people kept harping about DW being too easy was because all of these people ran around with all these damage boosting skills that let them one shot everything, and Overkill being Overkill they took that the wrong way and we are here now. I almost thought they were going in this direction with the skills rebalance, when they initially planned to nerf Silent Killer (now Specialized Killing) but then gave us the old 30% bonus which is just a straight buff now that silencer damage penalties are practically non-existent.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 05:34
|
|
|
Afraid of Audio posted:well overkill is unaffected so you can just do that for a bit if you dont feel like dealing with it I could've sworn the HP boost was across all difficulties... if that's the case, isn't that the direction definition of "affected"? (EDIT) Cool, thanks LMS and Coolguye Malek fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Oct 17, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 06:07
|
|
Malek posted:I could've sworn the HP boost was across all difficulties... if that's the case, isn't that the direction definition of "affected"? It did. But headshot multipliers are pretty generous through Overkill, so you shouldn't have any problems, regardless of weapon choice. UnknownMercenary posted:You are right that right before Crimefest, we had plenty of alternative "almost CAR-4"s to use, especially in the form of power creep through DLC. The real problem pre-Crimefest was that most guns above 40 did not do significantly enough damage to be worth using. Anything in the 50 range was pointless because the 40 range guns performed better while not changing shots to kill. Anything that couldn't hit 39.4 was fairly sub-optimal, and there were a lot of "almost but not quite there" guns like the old Krinkov. The AK.762 could hit past the 60 breakpoint so it was an alternative to the 40 range guns. The M308 was almost good; DMR kits outclassed it by a wide margin since it could hit much more ideal stats without sacrificing anything except the inherently lovely pickup. Yes, but this is a within-weapon-class issue. Tempest said that entire weapon classes were poo poo, and that has never really been true (or, not until quite recently)? At least not since I started playing (circa Big Bank). Within-class balance problems are always going to exist, too, unless weapons largely become copies of one another in terms of stats. Assault rifles have generally always had some good options. Sniper rifles have declined in usefulness, but used to be highly-regarded. LMGs have always been at least reasonably good. Shotguns have always been good. Akimbo weapons have generally been good since they showed up. There's also an issue with the aforementioned timeline in that it really lumps together a lot of changes prior to the big weapon rebalance. And it all started with perk decks. Perk decks arrive with Hoxton Breakout. That gives us dodge as a legitimate option through Rogue and Crook, and breaks the Master/Techforcer stranglehold. We also get akimbo weapons here with the Hitman perk deck. Before this point, yeah, options were pretty limited. But this is where things started getting easier. There have been a lot of changes since then. quote:I've talked about this with Psion, and Jules' comment about assuming every player takes damage boosting skills as a baseline for balance makes me think they have no idea what to do with these massive damage boost skills. Idiots on the Steam forums keep suggesting that guns just get buffed further, which is absolutely the wrong way to go. I would like to see them redesign or at least nerf some of the big offenders; as much fun as they are to use they are part of what's throwing everything off. Before this event, part of why people kept harping about DW being too easy was because all of these people ran around with all these damage boosting skills that let them one shot everything, and Overkill being Overkill they took that the wrong way and we are here now. I almost thought they were going in this direction with the skills rebalance, when they initially planned to nerf Silent Killer (now Specialized Killing) but then gave us the old 30% bonus which is just a straight buff now that silencer damage penalties are practically non-existent. If those damage skills don't make a meaningful difference, then no one will take them. They'll find other skills that provide more of an advantage. If they do make a meaningful difference, then everyone who cares about min-maxing will take them. There's no winning here. The best you can probably do is balance around the assumption that no one takes damage skills, and then let the damage skills cut off a shot to kill.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 06:18
|
|
|
Thinking through nerfing damage buffs a little more... I guess I should ask what you're envisioning at the end of the day, here. I think I can see some positives associated with more or less sacrificing the usefulness of Berserker by essentially giving it to everyone by default, through adjustments to weapon damage and enemy health. That opens up a bunch of points for other junk, unless you still want to go for Frenzy. I'm not sure I see any huge problems with most of the other damage boosting skills, though, except for maybe Overkill. But people melt the gently caress down whenever anyone talks about maybe toning shotguns down, so I doubt that sacred lamb will ever get meaningfully touched.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 06:30
|
|
|
So I haven't played for like a year, what's the current meta for OK/DW? Is it still dual wield pistol dodge?
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 07:13
|
|
|
UnknownMercenary posted:You are right that right before Crimefest, we had plenty of alternative "almost CAR-4"s to use, especially in the form of power creep through DLC. The real problem pre-Crimefest was that most guns above 40 did not do significantly enough damage to be worth using. Anything in the 50 range was pointless because the 40 range guns performed better while not changing shots to kill. Anything that couldn't hit 39.4 was fairly sub-optimal, and there were a lot of "almost but not quite there" guns like the old Krinkov. The AK.762 could hit past the 60 breakpoint so it was an alternative to the 40 range guns. The M308 was almost good; DMR kits outclassed it by a wide margin since it could hit much more ideal stats without sacrificing anything except the inherently lovely pickup.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 07:44
|
|
|
LuciferMorningstar posted:Yes, but this is a within-weapon-class issue. Tempest said that entire weapon classes were poo poo, and that has never really been true (or, not until quite recently)? At least not since I started playing (circa Big Bank). Within-class balance problems are always going to exist, too, unless weapons largely become copies of one another in terms of stats. Aw c'mon, I might not have been around since Day 1 but LMGs were in a pretty poo poo spot pre-rebalance (they were REALLY bad ARs who's only redeeming quality was their large mags, much as I enjoyed 'em) and Akimbos were in poor shape (particularly for the required investment). A lot of the weapon classes also suffered pretty badly from the within-class issues - again, there was the CAR-4 and then like 12 other guns that were 'the CAR-4 but with identical/worse stats so why use them?'. I mean, who the hell used the UAR or the Queen's Wrath back then? (I do admit that the timeline is a bit crunched there - mostly purposely as the last year or so's worth of balance was pretty good to my eye. The weapon rebalance of Crimefest 2015 and skill rework shortly thereafter changed a shitload of things and mostly for the better.) quote:If those damage skills don't make a meaningful difference, then no one will take them. They'll find other skills that provide more of an advantage. If they do make a meaningful difference, then everyone who cares about min-maxing will take them. There's no winning here. The counter is also true - we've gotten into a situation where they're drat near mandatory just for functioning. We saw this problem with the low-mid damage shotguns back in Crimefest 2015, when they were under-tuned because of the skill assumptions at the time. (I remember the kvetching that Jules had balanced them with the assumption that Underdog would be active 100% of the time, for example.) Making it so that basic functioning requires the full weapon tree + Silent Killer + Frenzerker is horrifyingly restrictive, as you yourself pointed out. Any time you get into having the One True Build, you've done a poo poo job balancing things. LuciferMorningstar posted:I guess I should ask what you're envisioning at the end of the day, here. At least for me, I'm not advocating that One Down be doable with an unmodded AMCAR and no skill points - it should be challenging as hell and require optimization, and that's a good thing. But right now there's a line where, without any real warning or reason, suddenly 50-75% of the weapons in the game become worthless, 2/3rds of the perk decks become suicidal to use and builds that don't follow the One True Path go from 'perform well' to 'in custody before the first assault wave ends'. Increasing difficulties should be gradual, with each preparing you for the next. The current setup doesn't do that. Ideally, what I'd love to see 'em do? - A smoother ramp-up. Right now the Overkill->Mayhem leap is too stark, the Mayhem->Death Wish increase is too small, and the difficulties below Overkill are still the sort of thing that players ignore past their first infamy because they're so weak. - Tone the increased health levels back to get them more in line with where weapons and skills are. When 50% of your available weapons do around 40 damage, the balance should be tuned with that in mind. There's other ways to increase difficulty without simply slapping a bigger HP bar on something. I'd say a good sweet spot would be with basic cops at around double (Mayhem/DW) or triple (OD) where the Overkill numbers are - low damage weapons will be viable (3-5 headshots on a basic cop is tough but a lot more fair than 8-10), while the single headshot level's still going to require a lot of damage-boosting skills for everything but a handful of weapons (which will only require a little boosting). - Tweak the higher end issues with cop damage/accuracy. Right now dodge is about the only way to survive, since even your basic cops can break your armor in a single hit and do so with 100% accuracy. This makes a pretty wide swath of perk decks and build options unusable. Should they do a lot of damage? Yeah. Should they be accurate? Yeah. But raycast 100% accuracy poo poo that breaks even the highest armor in 1 shot and downs you in 2 turns it into (as got coined earlier in the thread and I love it) Payday: The Cover Shooter and that's outright not how the game was designed. - Difficulty at the top end is probably better controlled through limiting player resources or disrupting safe zones. Lower ammo pickup rates; halve bag charges; give cops more ability to be evasive; give them grenades to keep players from bunkering down. Things like that rather than 'this is a Tan, except with five times the HP and triple the damage'.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 07:51
|
|
|
Omi no Kami posted:So I haven't played for like a year, what's the current meta for OK/DW? Is it still dual wield pistol dodge? Actually it's nothing but crossbows and automatic skills (because crossbows count as automatics obv) if you can believe that
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 07:56
|
|
|
Tempest_56 posted:Aw c'mon, I might not have been around since Day 1 but LMGs were in a pretty poo poo spot pre-rebalance (they were REALLY bad ARs who's only redeeming quality was their large mags, much as I enjoyed 'em) and Akimbos were in poor shape (particularly for the required investment).
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 08:04
|
|
|
I was always using the 553 and the UAR because I find their irl counterparts to be amazing guns. However sub-optimal they were, still got me through a few DW heists pretty well. Also the Payday 2 sound for the 553 is pretty darn awesome.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 08:59
|
|
|
Prokhor Zakharov posted:Actually it's nothing but crossbows and automatic skills (because crossbows count as automatics obv) if you can believe that Huh, fancy that... is there a recommended weapon if I don't have the bow DLCs? I remember AMCAR and queen's wrath being pretty spiffy, but again that was a year ago.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 09:06
|
|
|
Malek posted:I could've sworn the HP boost was across all difficulties... if that's the case, isn't that the direction definition of "affected"? AoA is correct that overkill difficulty plays almost identically to before the update so deffo just do that if you are not liking the current chaos. It is v fun and there are only a small handful of trophies that require you to play above that level right now. This is something that gets lost a lot in the (entirely justified) bitching about one down/neu death wish. Nothing outside of achievements and like 3 trophies force you to go there, and even the ones that do can largely be cheesed (the night club on death wish trophy, for example, is not a big deal because night club is stealthable).
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 09:06
|
|
|
Omi no Kami posted:Huh, fancy that... is there a recommended weapon if I don't have the bow DLCs? I remember AMCAR and queen's wrath being pretty spiffy, but again that was a year ago. The recommendation is currently 'DLCs are on sale now'
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 09:19
|
|
|
Haha, fair enough... bows and arrows it is.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 09:21
|
|
|
OK I haven't really played since Sydney came out and I'm coming back so here's my impressions, mostly of Mayhem, just jumping in: Medics: cool and good. Require some finesse to deal with compared to shields, which is the main comparable special Breaker shotgun: rules General new rifle meta: Ehhh. DMRs are better than ever, comparably speaking, but I don't like that they put in all this effort to have a viable mid-accuracy bullethose grouping of weapons and then tossed it out the window. Anarchist: Probably too good Dozers: The real victim here. They don't feel interesting or dangerous, just really annoying. I feel like I'm being DPS-checked in WoW whenever they show up, it really takes me out of the action. Though I guess DV got his wish: the RPG is now garbage.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 09:27
|
|
|
Prokhor Zakharov posted:The recommendation is currently 'DLCs are on sale now' Not anymore 
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 09:27
|
|
|
LuciferMorningstar posted:Thinking through nerfing damage buffs a little more... It's mainly more how it is now to combine these together. Pre-event, it was entirely reasonable to not take any of those skills, but you're always going to have people who metagame like crazy and combined Berserker, Overkill and Specialized Killing and then were vocal about DW being too easy. I don't see a reason for Specialized Killing to have a huge bonus; frankly though even at 30% it doesn't help hit the next breakpoint in many cases unless combined with either Berserker or Overkill. I would frankly like to see Overkill's damage bonus reduced, and then getting auto and semi-auto shotguns buffed further since they are the ones that need the skill the most. I'm not sure what to do with Berserker honestly, but I think the way it is right now (where it's easy to take the damage bonus safely with Frenzy) has turned the balance around it into a binary "you have it and actually kill things or you don't and you suck and die". Re: difficulty, before they threw in the extra headshot multipliers for Mayhem+, I was actually of the opinion that Mayhem/DW health numbers would be pretty reasonable for One Down. It already required massive minmaxing to push guns to one-shot breakpoints and restricted gun use to 80 damage and above, and combined with the accuracy and lethality of current One Down cops would be enough of a challenge. One of the most revealing comments Jules made in response to criticism was that the new difficulties were tested by playing each map once. It's grumbling over semantics I know, but he says "play" and not "complete". It's pretty clear that Overkill did not properly QA these difficulties, especially on the newer maps that were much harder on pre-event Deathwish than launch maps. Things like Lab Rats, Aftershock, Goat Simulator were legitimately difficult even under power-creeped Deathwish and they are currently loving brutal on One Down.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 12:50
|
|
|
Phoney Money (2016) is amazing in a hilarious way. The take (2016) is Viklund's best in a while.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 14:11
|
|
|
Double post
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 14:12
|
|
Tempest_56 posted:Aw c'mon, I might not have been around since Day 1 but LMGs were in a pretty poo poo spot pre-rebalance (they were REALLY bad ARs who's only redeeming quality was their large mags, much as I enjoyed 'em) and Akimbos were in poor shape (particularly for the required investment). A lot of the weapon classes also suffered pretty badly from the within-class issues - again, there was the CAR-4 and then like 12 other guns that were 'the CAR-4 but with identical/worse stats so why use them?'. I mean, who the hell used the UAR or the Queen's Wrath back then?... LMGs have always been good. Sorry. Fartgun builds have always been a thing. And Pickle has sworn by Akimbos for... well, a long time, so I'm willing to believe that they've always been viable on the highest difficulties. Dodge is not the only way to survive. 3/4 of my group have been doing One Down in ICTV. This is really the only time in my shamefully large number of hours played that I've picked up a gun and thought to myself, "wow, this is just totally unusable."
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 14:40
|
|
|
I can't believe I glossed over that, but yes akimbo pistols have always been good. Bernettis were god-tier out of the first set we got, then the Chimano Customs were basically perfect. They could hit 39.4 damage, were highly concealable, and even though they had a low accuracy number on the stats screen the hidden stats still gave them really good actual accuracy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 14:48
|
|
|
What if Berserker co-opted Yakuza and then some? (Minor) bonuses to things like reload speed, movement speed, and dodge (?) as health decreases. But not gun damage.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 15:00
|
|
|
My gut feeling is that Berserker is a bad idea for a skill in general, because either it forces the player to consciously try to game the system to find the sweet spot where they can get the maximum benefit possible without instantly splatting OR it's an awkwardly granular ability that slowly kicks in as you get hurt, which turns it into a wishy-washy damage bonus that may or may not help you hit a breakpoint based on an arbitrary amount of damage taken (yes, there's the exception of going into high berserk when being picked up). But then I've always been wary of skills that require you to be doing poorly to get a benefit (see also: basically all of Relentless). Of course, Frenzy then takes the concept of risk versus reward sitting at the heart of Berserker and throws it out the window. You're just always in berserk mode plus you get the additional damage resistance on top. And as the difficulty increases, the relevance of that missing health decreases since it's all the more likely you're going to go splat once your armor breaks even at full health. With how much Frenzerker already changes up and how hard it is to balance against all the other things in play, plus its detrimental effect on balance as a whole, it might be a good idea to just roll the whole mess into Yakuza. Then Berserker and Frenzy will be permanently married, can't stack with other perk decks, and the finer details of things like the damage resistance or the existing Yakuza bonuses can be re-evaluated within the new context. Though I have no flipping clue what new skills could replace them in the Brawler tree. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Oct 17, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 15:57
|
|
|
I just use frenzerker with sociopath bloodthirst is literally the best skill
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 16:47
|
|
|
The housewarming party is over, but the updates are not.quote:Hotfix 118.2 Changelog And four new mystery achievements. "Anger is the strongest force."
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 16:55
|
|
|
Berserker and Frenzy are pretty much two of the only interestingly designed skills in the game right now. Sacrificing health for damage and armor* is the kind of gimmick-y thing that I love building around and the type of game design in arpg-inspired shooters that I want to see more of. Sure, an almost universal damage boost messes up balance in some ways but you have to give up a deployable, defensive skills, or weapon specific skills in order to get it. I don't get where this talk about it being broken comes from at all. The general consensus for as long as I've been playing is that it's never quite been worth it, and as much as love it I have to agree. I've made DW viable builds centered around Berserker and Yakuza but you could always be just as effective without them. Of course this isn't taking the new context of absurdly beefed up enemy health into account but in that context Berserker and/or Frenzy is nowhere near the first thing that needs reworking.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 16:57
|
|
watho posted:Berserker and Frenzy are pretty much two of the only interestingly designed skills in the game right now. Sacrificing health for damage and armor* is the kind of gimmick-y thing that I love building around and the type of game design in arpg-inspired shooters that I want to see more of. Sure, an almost universal damage boost messes up balance in some ways but you have to give up a deployable, defensive skills, or weapon specific skills in order to get it. Frenzerker has been optimal for a while, when taken with Anarchist. You gain a ton of DR and damage output at the same time. It's also totally possible to put together a build with Inspire, ICTV, Frenzy, and shotgun skills. So no, you don't have to give up much.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 17:08
|
|
|
What's The Optimal akimbos right now?spit on my clit posted:bloodthirst is literally the best skill 
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 17:39
|
|
|
Insert name here posted:I don't know where you're getting the stats from but according to the game files themselves every shotgun starts at 20m and goes out to 50m. You're right though that it looks like the Goliath didn't get changed and is still 10-30m. I'm just using the More Weapon Stats mod and looking at the numbers it gives, which I assume it's just reading directly off whatever the in-game values are. Here's the revised Goliath values as of today's patch (ignore the damage, you can get it over 80):  So it looks like it's actually been fixed now. (It says 40.0m for my Locomotive because Flechette/AP rounds seem to double that value before damage falloff kicks in).
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 17:43
|
|
|
LuciferMorningstar posted:What if Berserker co-opted Yakuza and then some? (Minor) bonuses to things like reload speed, movement speed, and dodge (?) as health decreases. But not gun damage. My first thought when spitballing ideas to Chorse was to replace the damage bonus with a firerate bonus, but I imagine someone in bleedout firing a minigun at 6000 RPM would crash people's games. John Murdoch posted:My gut feeling is that Berserker is a bad idea for a skill in general, because either it forces the player to consciously try to game the system to find the sweet spot where they can get the maximum benefit possible without instantly splatting OR it's an awkwardly granular ability that slowly kicks in as you get hurt, which turns it into a wishy-washy damage bonus that may or may not help you hit a breakpoint based on an arbitrary amount of damage taken (yes, there's the exception of going into high berserk when being picked up). But then I've always been wary of skills that require you to be doing poorly to get a benefit (see also: basically all of Relentless). The damage still scales linearly, and Frenzy puts you at 40% bonus damage, but yes I agree that it mitigates a lot of the "risk" part of the risk/reward that used to be tied to using Berserker.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 19:12
|
|
|
oh yeah here's a bug that i've encountered more than once: Bulletstorm works with the RPG. you cant rapid fire rpg rounds but it doesnt deplete them for like three rockets. im unsure if this is still a thing that happens, but lets hope it doesnt get patched
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 19:33
|
|
|
It's a thing that's been around since the skills update: Bulletstorm and Swansong both work with RPGs/grenade launchers where they previously did not. If it was a bug, you'd think they would have fixed it by now, but this is also Overkill we are talking about.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 19:37
|
|
UnknownMercenary posted:My first thought when spitballing ideas to Chorse was to replace the damage bonus with a firerate bonus, but I imagine someone in bleedout firing a minigun at 6000 RPM would crash people's games. Fire rate bonus would be worthless at best, and more likely, a liability.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 19:37
|
|
|
Oh what the gently caress, no more balloons in the safe house? Popping the balloons was my favorite part.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 19:43
|
|
|
LuciferMorningstar posted:Fire rate bonus would be worthless at best, and more likely, a liability. boy if you dont like emptying your entire magazine in a second i dunno whats wrong with you
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 19:46
|
|
|
LuciferMorningstar posted:LMGs have always been good. Sorry. Fartgun builds have always been a thing. And Pickle has sworn by Akimbos for... well, a long time, so I'm willing to believe that they've always been viable on the highest difficulties. I'll drop this point largely that it seems to be more an issue of personal perspective - I found pre-bipod LMGs to be rather underpowered and Akimbos weak, but if they worked for you good on ya. It's not really relevant, since the changes were a year-plus ago now. quote:Dodge is not the only way to survive. 3/4 of my group have been doing One Down in ICTV. That's been counter to my experience - or at least in terms of effectiveness. I ran ICTV+Anarchist and frequently found that just running from cover to cover was suicide since a single hit would take off half my armor and watched more than a few ICTV+Muscle folks drop even quicker. Most of the successful runs I've seen/been part of relied on Rogue/Crossbow. I have had a little success with ICTV, but more frequently had moments where the time between being exposed to cops and going down is measured in .35 second damage grace windows. LuciferMorningstar posted:What if Berserker co-opted Yakuza and then some? (Minor) bonuses to things like reload speed, movement speed, and dodge (?) as health decreases. But not gun damage. Not a bad theorycraft, but it doesn't address the core problem if the screwy damage curve. (And honestly I'd address Frenzy rather than Berserker - as John Murdoch points out it significantly reduces the risk involved and gives you a guaranteed bonus baseline. Old Berserker gave the same bonus and was pretty much fine, since you couldn't easily stay at 30% health forever and that was an actually dangerous thing to do.)
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 20:32
|
|
|
jules himself admitted that ICTV was worthless in 1D currently and was talking about the laughable idea of having difficulty-specific armor levels in an off the cuff manner so yeah it's not exactly an arguable point that the current best way to handle the payday universe's version of seal team 6 is to run around in a two-piece suit shooting bows and crossbows at them
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 20:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 08:57 |
|
Tempest_56 posted:I'll drop this point largely that it seems to be more an issue of personal perspective - I found pre-bipod LMGs to be rather underpowered and Akimbos weak, but if they worked for you good on ya. It's not really relevant, since the changes were a year-plus ago now. 1. "I don't like it" is not even remotely similar to "is not viable." If some individuals can use a particular setup and carry at least their share of the weight in a heist, then they have demonstrated the viability of the build. Inability to replicate that success isn't an indictment of the build itself. 2. The discussion is relevant since we're considering various balance shifts across Payday's existence. This information puts the current state of affairs in perspective. 3. Again, personal experience is not enough to show that ICTV isn't workable. It might not be mathematically optimal, but we're not trying to determine the one true build. We're assessing what builds are good enough (the only bar that really matters). 4. Jules is an idiot and I have no idea why anyone thinks his perspectives on what is or is not viable are worth listening to anymore.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2016 21:27
|
|