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They blew up the offer. I asked for 5% over what they put forward, they waited a week to get back to me, and they rescinded the offer. I'm loving astounded.
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Oct 12, 2016 23:27
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Philip Rivers posted:They blew up the offer. Ouch, one more thing to worry about.
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Oct 12, 2016 23:55
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Sounds like a really lovely place to work, and likely a bullet dodged.
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Oct 13, 2016 00:38
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I'm real curious what company it is but you probably shouldn't post that on a den of internet comedy. Bummer for you I'm sure but perhaps bullet dodged. Anyone who tries to negotiate and gets an offer rescinded gets a consolation drink from me if they come to NYC - I can't imagine I'll have many takers.
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Oct 13, 2016 00:41
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Philip Rivers posted:They blew up the offer. Been posting in this thread for a year and have read most pages in that time and that's the first I've seen. Bullet dodged and all that.
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Oct 13, 2016 03:21
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Philip Rivers posted:They blew up the offer. Goddrat. Sorry, dude. They loving suck.
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Oct 13, 2016 03:21
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Yeah I mean, there are a couple of silver linings here but still. Everyone I interviewed with seemed really friendly and excited about me coming on, too.  I was really hoping I could start working soon.
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Oct 13, 2016 04:56
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Honestly, the idea that a company would turn down a prospect rather than just say no over 5% seems so unlikely that it's very possible they had another candidate come in who they liked better. I can't fathom choosing to go through the whole recruiting process over again over that.
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Oct 13, 2016 05:01
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I'd be surprised by that too because I was interviewing after getting back in touch a number of months after they did a big recruiting event at my uni and they haven't done anything like that since. Obviously it's possible they found someone else but who and when? It feels retaliatory.
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Oct 13, 2016 05:08
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Honestly, the idea that a company would turn down a prospect rather than just say no over 5% seems so unlikely that it's very possible they had another candidate come in who they liked better. I can't fathom choosing to go through the whole recruiting process over again over that. Yeah this makes more sense because if it was retaliatory it means their bean counter is a COLOSSAL shithead and you definitely dodged a bullet.
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Oct 13, 2016 05:12
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Ugh gently caress my life why would they even make an offer in the first place if there was someone in front of me 
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Oct 13, 2016 05:19
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Philip Rivers posted:Ugh gently caress my life why would they even make an offer in the first place if there was someone in front of me Because they're still cheap awful fucks and they were hoping to lowball the overall job. You went over their lowball threshold so they went with the other candidate. Also possible: When you accepted the lowball offer, they'd go to the other candidate and try to bargain him down, then rescind yours anyway. No matter how you look at it, you dodged a bullet here. Seriously.
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Oct 13, 2016 06:11
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If it was at a career fair at a school it was probably for a moderately fungible position where they are doing a bunch of career fairs at schools, more so than it being a unique position in terms of skills and expertise. It still sucks, but as everyone is saying you really did not want to work there anyway.
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Oct 13, 2016 13:46
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:If it was at a career fair at a school it was probably for a moderately fungible position where they are doing a bunch of career fairs at schools, more so than it being a unique position in terms of skills and expertise. It still sucks, but as everyone is saying you really did not want to work there anyway. "We'll Jim it looks like you had a great year. We think you're ready for a whole lot more responsibilities." "Great! Let's talk about my new role and adjusting my compensation to an industry appropriate level." "...You're fired."
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Oct 13, 2016 14:11
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So I need help with a spot negotiation. I joined a new job in July with the prospect of beginning as a junior associate here and using my academic time (paid days not working) to earn my MBA. Everyone seems really enthusiastic about this job, and it's essentially a requirement for a job I want down the line. My department gives us continuing education funds every year totalling 6,000 for whatever we want. I'm using two years of my continuing education money toward my MBA. Along the way, for convenience in scheduling the degree (single days off, fewer academic days required) and less total time taken, I decided to enroll in the executive MBA instead. The EMBA is very nice but costs about twice as much money (60,000 total instead of 30,000). So I approached the chair of my department yesterday for more funds. She didn't say no, but instead asked me to write her a proposal. I'm not really negotiating from a position of strength here, but I was wondering how much I should ask for and the way I should go about writing this proposal. My thoughts for strategy are 1) ask for them to pay the entirety of this degree, like 30,000 a year for two years 2) ask them to pay for half of the degree, like 15,000 a year for two years 3) ask them to pay double my academic money, which totals 12,000 a year for two years 4) ask them to pay for 150% of my academic money, which totals 9,000 a year for two years 5) not ask them for anything and withdraw my request for money and just struggle to make the payments from salary (which would probably ultimately be fine) In exchange I really don't have a lot to offer 1) I could offer to take an intermediate role in the meantime, possibly at less pay than would have been negotiated otherwise 2) I could explain how this would benefit the department in the meantime intangibly, and could guarantee my services by long-term contract 3) I could offer my services at the discretion of the chair and leave it in her power to figure out a project that needs doing with the strings attached to the money 4) I could ask for this money as an advance on future education funds, and would guarantee not to leave unless I repaid the funds as a penalty 5) I could ask for this money as an advance against my bonus payments, which would end up essentially be like I was trading away salary She's obviously a very busy person and I'm the most junior of, like, 40 or something doctoral level employees, so I don't want to waste her time but I'd like to ask for a pretty considerable committment of funds. Any thoughts?
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Oct 13, 2016 19:19
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Sundae posted:No matter how you look at it, you dodged a bullet here. Seriously. If it helps: my first job was at a place that severely underpaid and underinvested. They generally treated people quite poorly. I discovered through friendships at the company that they were so cheap, the HR system was configured to automatically reject any application that was not in the prescribed salary range. Hiring managers never even got to see those apps. It sucks but I have seen first hand how hiring / recruiting can mirror the business culture. Where I work now, a wonderful company, basically laughed in my face when I asked for more money. I don't know if I've ever gotten a stronger "lol. no." outside of trying to get a date in middle school. Still hired me though. And then when I proved a great performer, they ended up giving me more than I asked for from the start.
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Oct 13, 2016 19:46
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:So I need help with a spot negotiation. I joined a new job in July with the prospect of beginning as a junior associate here and using my academic time (paid days not working) to earn my MBA. Everyone seems really enthusiastic about this job, and it's essentially a requirement for a job I want down the line. My department gives us continuing education funds every year totalling 6,000 for whatever we want. I'm using two years of my continuing education money toward my MBA. Along the way, for convenience in scheduling the degree (single days off, fewer academic days required) and less total time taken, I decided to enroll in the executive MBA instead. The EMBA is very nice but costs about twice as much money (60,000 total instead of 30,000). So I approached the chair of my department yesterday for more funds. She didn't say no, but instead asked me to write her a proposal. My personal thoughts are: don't ask them for anything and withdraw your request for money and cover the liability for your EMBA that you really need more than an MBA out of your own pocket. Any program you come up with that involves them fronting you 30 grand a year would need either: - You specifically being an executive MBA being superlatively valuable, to your employer, over them hiring some EMBA from outside the company. - You surrendering a significant amount of leverage in leaving this job in the form of future liability, either in the form of contract binding your continued employment or liability to repay the tuition your employer provided. Without a cogent argument for why #1 would be true, that you can present, you are in #2. And #2 sucks for negotiating for your own interests in the future. Even if you have a cogent argument for #1, why would the chair chunk all of this money into you so that in two years you can get up and leave to get paid $$$ somewhere else and she's back at square 1? This whole thing reeks of coming up with the desire up front (getting the MBA, doing the EMBA program) and then trying to backfill the means to it later. That's not good planning, and you don't have a great position from which to negotiate. The best outcome I would look at here is getting them to front you the $30k / year under a repayment penalty plan, and then socking away an equivalent amount of money into a high yield savings account so you can at least get interest on it over the life of your degree.
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Oct 13, 2016 19:46
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What is the direct value to your job of you enrolling in the executive MBA versus the normal MBA? Unless you have a very, very coherent answer to that question, loving off and paying for it yourself is your strongest option. You look disingenuous by first asking for thing that costs X and then asking for actually thing that costs 2X without any appreciable benefit to the person writing the check.
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Oct 13, 2016 20:23
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The marginal benefit to the executive MBA is that I continue to work as our director of quality and safety and as a practicing anesthesiologist throughout the time I'm working. I bring my coursework to our resident training program every month when I train them in hospital quality and safety. The reason they can't just "hire somebody else" is that very few physicians have this degree, and to pull one into my department would cost them literally a quarter of a million dollars. Here's my proposal: Hello Dr. XXX, I’ve finished 1/8 of the executive MBA through XXX, I'm doing really well (4.0!), and realize that an EMBA is far more efficient than my original plan. It has already made me better at my "day" job and it will take less time to finish. I look forward to using it to help our department for many years to come. Unfortunately, it costs twice as much. I'd like to contribute the same amount toward my degree, and have you make up the difference, which is an additional $36,000 over two years. If you'd like, we could structure the additional amount above and beyond my (academic) funds as a loan, or an advance on future (academic) funds which could be forgiven if I stay at the hospital for six years (which I fully intend to do!) With warmest and best regards, EAT FASTER!!!!!!
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Oct 13, 2016 21:41
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Is that the marginal benefit to the Executive MBA or just the benefit to getting an MBA? Are you presenting this as a fait accompli? It sure sounds like it.
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Oct 13, 2016 21:58
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Is that the marginal benefit to the Executive MBA or just the benefit to getting an MBA? the negotiation is not whether I should get an MBA (I'm in the process of getting it), or whether it should be an executive MBA or a regular MBA (it's an executive MBA, I'm already enrolled in it) I just want more money, so I asked and they said, "send me a proposal." so this is that, yes. The reason I'm asking for more money is that this MBA costs more that the MBA we discussed when I joined.
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Oct 13, 2016 22:02
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You need to sell why the EMBA is more efficient and worth $36k to them. The proposal you wrote doesn't do that and in fact sounds really odd that you've finished an 1/8 of the degree and are just now realizing that it's more efficient. Also, don't put quotes around your day job, I wouldnt even call it a day job. I wouldn't offer alternatives that lower the cost to the hospital as it's self defeating.
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Oct 13, 2016 22:52
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:The marginal benefit to the executive MBA is that I continue to work as our director of quality and safety and as a practicing anesthesiologist throughout the time I'm working. I think you misunderstood me. Is this a benefit that is specific to the new, more expensive MBA program that you want to/are pursuing, or is it a benefit to you participating in an MBA program in general? To an outside observer, it sounds like the latter. If I'm wrong, what specifically does the Executive MBA achieve for your employer that is more beneficial to them than the MBA program originally stipulated?
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Oct 14, 2016 12:30
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:The reason I'm asking for more money is that this MBA costs more that the MBA we discussed when I joined. This is your reason for asking for more money for this MBA. You need to figure out your Departmental Chair's reason for giving more money for this MBA.
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Oct 14, 2016 15:04
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I am currently unemployed and have a job offer from Firm A, which I am keen to join. They are offering $36,000. Firm B has offered $39,600. I would accept $36,000, but I think I really deserve $42,000. How should I negotiate this job offer? I can think of two options: 1) Just ask for $42,000. I don't see them cutting off negotiations based on this, but without mentioning the competing offer, I don't know how I'd justify this request. 2) Ask for $39,600 and mention the competing offer. I think they would take the competing offer seriously. (Sidenote: A performance review is contractually scheduled at the end of the calendar year. How likely is it to get a minor raise after less than two months of employment?) My first time entering any sort of salary negotiation, so I'd be happy to get any input.
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Oct 14, 2016 15:30
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If you can anchor to a salary benchmark for 42, go ahead and ask for it. You aren't getting a raise in two months.
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Oct 14, 2016 15:48
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:If you can anchor to a salary benchmark for 42, go ahead and ask for it. As KYOON GRIFFEY JR said you probably won't get a raise in 2 months, certainly not a 6-7% raise. This is the perfect example of when to ask. You minimum accept number is the firm $36k, your just say yes is $42k, they offered $39.6k. "That is an interesting offer however I have a competing one that is a tad higher. I'd really like to work for you guys but to match you'd need to be 7% higher at $42,400. Again, I'd really really like to join your team, can you match 42?" CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Oct 15, 2016 |
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Oct 15, 2016 00:00
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CarForumPoster posted:"That is an interesting offer however I have a competing one that is a tad higher. I'd really like to work for you guys but to match you'd need to be 7% higher at $42,400. Again, I'd really really like to join your team, can you match 42?" If the match number is 39, don't lie about it. It's far from unprecedented for an employer to demand proof before matching.
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Oct 17, 2016 12:40
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epenthesis posted:If the match number is 39, don't lie about it. It's far from unprecedented for an employer to demand proof before matching. If you future employer demands proof about a job offer, consider whether you want to work there or not.
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Oct 17, 2016 13:58
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I just received a job offer for a company where I would be making $57k/year and receive a $2500 bonus payable after 90 days employment. This would be a huge leap from my previous job where I was only making $48k/year in a much more expensive city. Well before reading this thread, when I applied for the new job I mistakenly mentioned how much I made at my previous gig and asked for $55k/year for desired salary. My question is whether it's still worth negotiating for more money since they knew how much I made at my old position, and I asked for less than what they offered. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
ADolan fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Oct 17, 2016 |
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Oct 17, 2016 16:29
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ADolan posted:I just received a job offer for a company where I would be making $57k/year and receive a $2500 bonus payable after 90 days employment. This would be a huge leap from my previous job where I was only making $48k/year in a much more expensive city. Well before reading this thread, when I applied for the new job I mistakenly mentioned how much I made at my previous gig and asked for $55k/year for desired salary. My question is whether it's still worth negotiating for more money since they knew how much I made at my old position, and I asked for less than what they offered. Any advice is greatly appreciated. They offered more than you asked for and it sounds like you're happy with the offer. I'd take it, be happy with the win, and just remember the rest for next time.
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Oct 17, 2016 17:24
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:If you future employer demands proof about a job offer, consider whether you want to work there or not. If you plan to lie to your future employer, consider how insulted you really ought to be to have your honesty questioned. Just tell the loving truth and avoid the possible stain on your reputation from being caught in a lie.
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Oct 17, 2016 18:17
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epenthesis posted:If you plan to lie to your future employer, consider how insulted you really ought to be to have your honesty questioned.
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Oct 17, 2016 18:23
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:This has been discussed a few times already but I would never hand over a copy of another company's offer letter - frankly I consider them confidential by default and it sets a pretty bad precedent in my mind to even be asked. Obviously I'm still willing to cite terms from it as it benefits me, but no, I'm not handing over a copy of a potential legal agreement between me and a third party. If that's a dealbreaker for a company then it's definitely a dealbreaker for me. That's fine. But if someone were to exaggerate their competing offer and then be asked to prove it, they'd have little choice but to feign offense and take the competing offer--if they tried to accept the original offer after having claimed to have a substantially better one, they'd (accurately) look like a liar. Negotiate honestly and you won't fall into that trap. e: and "lying might backfire" is not even the most salient argument when the subject is professional ethics. epenthesis fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Oct 17, 2016 |
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Oct 17, 2016 19:38
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epenthesis posted:That's fine. But if someone were to exaggerate their competing offer and then be asked to prove it, they'd have little choice but to feign offense and take the competing offer--if they tried to accept the original offer after having claimed to have a substantially better one, they'd (accurately) look like a liar. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Oct 17, 2016 |
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Oct 17, 2016 19:51
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Whole lotta focusing on the thing that will likely not happen (demanding to see the other letter) to forget about the actual move that'll happen: "Fine, go take the other offer." You can bluff and overplay your hand and maybe get away with it. But if you try to bluff you MUST be ready to take the $39k offer because you're about to make that your only option.
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Oct 17, 2016 20:24
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ADolan posted:I just received a job offer for a company where I would be making $57k/year and receive a $2500 bonus payable after 90 days employment. This would be a huge leap from my previous job where I was only making $48k/year in a much more expensive city. Well before reading this thread, when I applied for the new job I mistakenly mentioned how much I made at my previous gig and asked for $55k/year for desired salary. My question is whether it's still worth negotiating for more money since they knew how much I made at my old position, and I asked for less than what they offered. Any advice is greatly appreciated. You told them your just say yes price and they gave you more than that. Say yes and thank you. Dwight Eisenhower posted:Whole lotta focusing on the thing that will likely not happen (demanding to see the other letter) to forget about the actual move that'll happen: "Fine, go take the other offer." Agreed that they wont ask and yes you need to be willing to accept the consolation prize but if the company absolutely will not give you 42 they may still come back with a higher number and say "but were the best company and our bennies are soooo goood" But for real just dont say the word "match" if it offends your sensibilities or is too high risk.
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Oct 18, 2016 00:33
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ADolan posted:I just received a job offer for a company where I would be making $57k/year and receive a $2500 bonus payable after 90 days employment. This would be a huge leap from my previous job where I was only making $48k/year in a much more expensive city. Well before reading this thread, when I applied for the new job I mistakenly mentioned how much I made at my previous gig and asked for $55k/year for desired salary. My question is whether it's still worth negotiating for more money since they knew how much I made at my old position, and I asked for less than what they offered. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Agreed that you should probably just accept and be thankful they're giving you a whopping 19% more than you asked for.
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Oct 18, 2016 00:38
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ADolan posted:I just received a job offer for a company where I would be making $57k/year and receive a $2500 bonus payable after 90 days employment. This would be a huge leap from my previous job where I was only making $48k/year in a much more expensive city. Well before reading this thread, when I applied for the new job I mistakenly mentioned how much I made at my previous gig and asked for $55k/year for desired salary. My question is whether it's still worth negotiating for more money since they knew how much I made at my old position, and I asked for less than what they offered. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Anecdotally, I got offered more than I asked for initially for my current job and then asked for more after getting more details on the benefits since they were substantially worse than my former employer's.
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Oct 18, 2016 03:28
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To update you guys on my situation:Vegetable posted:I am currently unemployed and have a job offer from Firm A, which I am keen to join. They are offering $36,000. Firm B has offered $39,600. I would accept $36,000, but I think I really deserve $42,000. Over the moon right now. Would never have thought to negotiate if not for this thread's encouragement. Thank you everybody!
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Oct 18, 2016 07:37
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