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namaste faggots posted:So the stress tests are for all insured mortgages. I wasn't aware people bought insurance for mortgages with more than 20% down payment. CMHC is the insurer? All insured = all CMHC mortgages.
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Oct 17, 2016 15:29
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Is it just me, or is the whole notion of mortgage insurance fundamentally flawed? How the hell can you underwrite a bunch of risks that are just about guaranteed to be highly correlated?
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Oct 17, 2016 15:30
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namaste faggots posted:http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...066/?cmpid=rss1 It's not the people buying the insurance on 20% down mortgages, it's the lenders buying it so that they can securitize them. The process is mostly invisible to the borrower. Mortgages with less than 20% down are legally required to be insured. I'm not sure the customer legally has to see the mortgage insurance as a separate line item on their bill, but this seems to be universally how it works. Mortgages with 20% down are not legally required to be insured now or in the future, however the majority* of them are insured, because you can't securitize non-insured mortgages. The mortgage issuer doesn't pass the insurance cost on to the buyer as a line-item, though obviously the cost is taken into account when setting rates. Starting November 17, the borrowers have to meet the same stress test as everyone else in order for the lender to buy insurance on the mortgage. So lenders can either offer to lend an amount that is insurable/securitzable based off a stress test at 4.64%, or they can offer to lend an amount that is not insurable/securitizable based off of whatever lending rate they choose. I have a feeling that with a major profit generator (the securitization) being taken off the table, the rates offered on these mortgages will be closer to 4.64 than 2-2.5, which leads to the same mortgage amount for the buyer, just at a higher rate, and thus useless. Effectively, rates aren't going up due to this, but the total amount offered will come way down on both <20% and >20% down mortgages. Possibly there will be some edge cases where borrowers take out a mortgage for a larger amount than is insurable at a higher rate, but I think for the most part this type of arrangement won't make sense for lender or borrower. *[citation needed] I'm assuming that the only way everyone is matching each others rates is by squeezing every ounce of profit out of these mortgages, which necessitates securitization, and thus insurance. I could be wrong. Kreez fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Oct 17, 2016 |
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Oct 17, 2016 15:55
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Lexicon posted:Is it just me, or is the whole notion of mortgage insurance fundamentally flawed? How the hell can you underwrite a bunch of risks that are just about guaranteed to be highly correlated? One of the false assumptions that helped fuel the 2007 financial crisis was that housing prices had been (relatively?) uncorrelated for all of the post war era. What no one noticed was that the lenders doing the lending had changed from local banks with small portfolios to gigantic nationwide banks and so the markets were actually very strongly correlated.
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Oct 17, 2016 16:02
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The world of insurance is pretty crazy, with every bit of insurance re-insured (insurance insurance) and then even the huge re-insurance companies getting insurance in case they have to pay out their insurance insurance. So it's insurance insurance insurance. I don't know how many layers deep it goes but I think it's insurance all the way down.
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Oct 17, 2016 16:12
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I'm sure that the Big Short sequel will be awesome. Michael Lewis better be taking all kinds of notes right now.
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Oct 17, 2016 16:23
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Baronjutter posted:The world of insurance is pretty crazy, with every bit of insurance re-insured (insurance insurance) and then even the huge re-insurance companies getting insurance in case they have to pay out their insurance insurance. So it's insurance insurance insurance. I don't know how many layers deep it goes but I think it's insurance all the way down. Also most of the cash base is reinvested in the market in order to hit EPS for shareholders.
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Oct 17, 2016 16:35
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Seat Safety Switch posted:Also most of the cash base is reinvested in the market in order to hit EPS for shareholders. Yeah, everything's covering for everything else so it can't fail. It's like how a huge network of alliances will prevent all wars in europe.
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Oct 17, 2016 17:43
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oh condo king! https://twitter.com/BradJLamb/status/783399471765872640
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Oct 17, 2016 19:41
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They pulled the rug out from under the bottom and top of the market. The Middle Class™ better up their game at the real estate wealth ponzi scheme or the market will crash.
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Oct 17, 2016 19:43
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lol, all this poo poo is great because those idiots are going to whip up a whine-storm about new buyers when really all this poo poo is a trojan horse to gently caress over retirees and boomers.
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Oct 17, 2016 20:32
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This is 2010, I wonder how the numbers have changed in the interceding six years.
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Oct 17, 2016 20:35
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quote:Average Canadians Can’t Borrow Enough For Average Homes As of Today https://betterdwelling.com/average-canadians-cant-borrow-enough-for-average-homes-as-of-today/ So much  in this article. Class mobility u guys Femtosecond do you need a Kleenex
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Oct 17, 2016 20:50
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Its OK guys were still primed for a soft landing. 
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Oct 17, 2016 20:58
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Furnaceface posted:Class Mobility In Canada Has this ever been how class mobility worked? Trading up into more expensive houses? Seems like getting better jobs gives you upward class mobility.
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Oct 17, 2016 21:09
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Lobok posted:Has this ever been how class mobility worked? Trading up into more expensive houses? Seems like getting better jobs gives you upward class mobility. Canadian Exceptionalism
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Oct 17, 2016 21:12
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Lobok posted:Has this ever been how class mobility worked? Trading up into more expensive houses? Seems like getting better jobs gives you upward class mobility. This is the usual dumb poo poo where someone looks at the correlation between housing and positive life outcomes and thinks that housing begets the latter rather than comes from it. namaste faggots posted:https://betterdwelling.com/average-canadians-cant-borrow-enough-for-average-homes-as-of-today/ Dear Tiffany Greene of betterdwelling.com, All of this is the point because having a giant house trading ponzi scheme is good way to destroy an entire economy.
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Oct 17, 2016 21:31
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MickeyFinn posted:This is the usual dumb poo poo where someone looks at the correlation between housing and positive life outcomes and thinks that housing begets the latter rather than comes from it. I suppose it could work if you profited enough from your previous home that you can use those profits to pay a large enough chunk of the principal on your next home to drive down your mortgage payments and effectively be making (keeping) significantly more income. But I'm assuming people don't do that and instead keep their payments in the same range and use the profits to get as expensive a home as they can. Or she's saying class mobility but really means moving into better neighbourhoods. Lobok fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Oct 17, 2016 |
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Oct 17, 2016 21:44
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A lot of people view your work/career as just a thing to help you save up for your down payment, and all the real money is in house trading. Also class is entirely based on where and how big your house is. So you work hard, buy a starter home or condo. It goes up in value far faster than your earnings, so you sell and trade up to a bigger house to see even bigger gains. You keep doing this until you're living in a 5 million dollar mansion and own 5 investment condos you rent out. The rent doesn't pay the mortgage, but it doesn't have to, your paper gains pay the mortgage. Jobs and careers and earnings don't matter because the real source of income is housing, everyone should just work as much as they need to get on the property ladder then quit their jobs and DIY improve their homes, it pays better than working! This is good and sustainable and the government needs to do everything it can to keep this going otherwise it's going to ruin our economy and ruin lives.
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Oct 17, 2016 22:13
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Remember when we did this with tulip bulbs
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Oct 17, 2016 22:15
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namaste faggots posted:Remember when we did this with tulip bulbs As relevant now as when it was painted  "Monkeys in contemporary 17th century Dutch dress are shown dealing in tulips. A satirical commentary on speculators during the time of "Tulip Mania", an economic bubble that centered around rare tulip bulbs. At left, one monkey points to flowering tulips while another holds up a tulip and a moneybag. Bulbs are weighed, money is counted, a lavish business dinner is enjoyed. The monkey at left has a list of rare tulips, his sword denotes upper class status. Farther back, a monkey sits like a nobleman astride a horse. One in mid-foreground draws up a bill of sale; the owl on his shoulder symbolizes foolishness and ignobility. Brueghel is not only ridiculing tulip speculators as brainless monkeys, the work is an object lesson for the folly of speculating to such an extent in such a transient thing as a mere bloom. In the denouement at right, a monkey urinates on the now worthless tulips; fellow speculators in debt are brought before the magistrate or weep in the dock. A frustrated buyer brandishes his fists, while at the back right a speculator is carried to his grave."
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Oct 17, 2016 22:24
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The only difference is today, more than likely, pmselfie is going to enact a massive bailout of ~equity holders~, proving time and time again that the free market really does work
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Oct 17, 2016 22:42
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namaste faggots posted:https://betterdwelling.com/average-canadians-cant-borrow-enough-for-average-homes-as-of-today/ "If that weren’t crappy enough, lower priced homes may have to come down in prices too. This might be a double hit to lower income Canadians." How terrible for buyers, if prices might fall.
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Oct 17, 2016 22:45
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Now would be an opportune time to read 'Devil take the Hindmost', Ed Chancellor's history of financial speculation. Spoiler: it's never different this time.
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Oct 18, 2016 01:32
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I'm reading "too big to fail" by Andrew Sorkin and it's dope
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Oct 18, 2016 02:16
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United Front Games (Sleeping Dogs) just poo poo the bed after years of illness and bleeding talent. From what I gather there were about 120 employees left.
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Oct 18, 2016 03:04
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sauer kraut posted:United Front Games (Sleeping Dogs) just poo poo the bed after years of illness and bleeding talent. From what I gather there were about 120 employees left. Whoa had no idea that one came outta Vancouver. Solid game. Game dev scene seems like a real bitch to work for.
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Oct 18, 2016 03:31
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DON'T WORRY GUYS HOOTSUITE IS REVENUE NEUTRAL how the gently caress did it ever come to be that being revenue neutral was something to boast about? especially in a loving country that doesn't even regulate GAAP reporting?
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Oct 18, 2016 03:41
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namaste faggots posted:DON'T WORRY GUYS HOOTSUITE IS REVENUE NEUTRAL Hey. Tell me when Hootsuite is going IPO
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Oct 18, 2016 03:44
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The Butcher posted:Whoa had no idea that one came outta Vancouver. Solid game. like four vancouver studios have gone under this year
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Oct 18, 2016 04:19
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namaste faggots posted:DON'T WORRY GUYS HOOTSUITE IS REVENUE NEUTRAL Isn't spending as much as you make the core ethos of the Canadian dream?
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Oct 18, 2016 04:34
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ephori posted:Isn't spending as much as you make the core ethos of the Canadian dream? Where's your vision? You either blow everything on rental properties, as an individual, or, as a corporation, sit on your hands and ineffectually stockpile cash from government subsidies and regulatory capture
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Oct 18, 2016 08:57
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I heard on the radio 70% of Canadians who have a garage don't use it for storing their cars. The host who also doesn't use it for that purpose, seemed slightly proud that his house was overflowing with junk.
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Oct 18, 2016 11:13
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Well the more things you have the better you are as a person hence why homeless are horrible people
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Oct 18, 2016 13:20
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Fried Watermelon posted:Well the more things you have the better you are as a person  Also, they have no housing, cottage or truck equity and that means you're a member of the Canadian dalit caste
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Oct 18, 2016 14:34
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peter banana posted:I heard on the radio 70% of Canadians who have a garage don't use it for storing their cars. The host who also doesn't use it for that purpose, seemed slightly proud that his house was overflowing with junk. Confirming this is true. Where else will I store my bikes, lawn/garden care equipment, seasonal decorations, renovation tools, summer/winter sports items, and strollers? I suppose some people stick them in the basement, but those people are poors that don't finish their basements. Think of the resale value, finished basement, bedrooms+1/2 bathrooms +1/2.
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Oct 18, 2016 14:37
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peter banana posted:I heard on the radio 70% of Canadians who have a garage don't use it for storing their cars. The host who also doesn't use it for that purpose, seemed slightly proud that his house was overflowing with junk. I should start a business where I clean out my neighbour's garages in exchange for a lease to park a project car in there. It's like a secondary suite, but my cars are the good kind of jobless immigrant because they're made in Japan.
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Oct 18, 2016 14:46
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peter banana posted:I heard on the radio 70% of Canadians who have a garage don't use it for storing their cars. The host who also doesn't use it for that purpose, seemed slightly proud that his house was overflowing with junk. This makes perfect sense. Why would I use my on-site dry storage to store something that is already waterproof? People who keep their cars in garages all year are weird.
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Oct 18, 2016 14:48
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namaste faggots posted:DON'T WORRY GUYS HOOTSUITE IS REVENUE NEUTRAL To be fair, Amazon has been kicking the poo poo out of most brick and mortar retailers following a very similar strategy (actually losses). It's a bona-fide strategy. I doubt this is what is going on in Hootsuite though. They're just retards.
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Oct 18, 2016 14:53
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Postess with the Mostest posted:This makes perfect sense. Why would I use my on-site dry storage to store something that is already waterproof? People who keep their cars in garages all year are weird. It prolongs the life of your car and means you don't have to scrape ice off in a blizzard when you're already late for work, you absolute maniac. I'd step over my own mother's dead body for a garage to keep my car in. Five years of on-street parking in Toronto have rusted that poo poo through.
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Oct 18, 2016 15:04
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