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Blue_monday posted:Can someone explain to me how a concept so simple as a time clock (even including reports and everything) is such a difficult thing to create and keep up to date? Why does business software in general suck so hard and cost so much? Time is a complete motherfucker to program.
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Oct 18, 2016 05:43
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Ah... What? How is something that queries the timekeeper server for the time and then writes it to a database even remotely difficult?
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Oct 18, 2016 05:46
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Internet Explorer posted:Yeah, that is the route to take. In general, feeling responsible for things that you have no power over is just going to lead to liver failure. Let the owner deal with that type of poo poo. It's the only way it's going to change. I sat down with the owner and tried to explain how we could help avoid the situation again. I also told him that I didn't feel qualified to do it myself and furthermore didn't want to be responsible when people ignored any new rules and safety changes. He understood completely and is fine with it. Probable solutions are pending once things get back to normal and he has a long talk with the people involved in infecting the server. Which knowing him will be something like "Stop clicking on things you shouldn't and costing me money before you leave me no other options, please."
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Oct 18, 2016 05:49
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Internet Explorer posted:Ah... What? How is something that queries the timekeeper server for the time and then writes it to a database even remotely difficult? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY
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Oct 18, 2016 06:03
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#!/bin/bash #timeclock.exe while read -p "What is your name?" name while read -p "What is your password?" password case $name in bob) if [ $password -eq password1]; then echo "$name checked in at $(date %F) >> timesheet.log"; fi joe) if [ $password -eq passwordlol]; then echo "$name checked in at $(date %F) >> timesheet.log"; fi *) echo "not on the list" esac I'm considering changing careers to be an enterprise software engineer.
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Oct 18, 2016 06:04
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Methanar posted:#!/bin/bash Now code it in Visualbasic, shim it to run on .Net, make it take in data created in sequential flat files on the root of C, people enter time worked via a jsp page using IIS 6.0, and make sure that the database of client IDs is located in a datacenter on the 7th moon of Neptune, to ensure that latency is acceptably for any and all queries. Then, and only then can you claim to be a real deal Enterprise Software Developer. You don't have the pedigree that comes with getting a 16bit application patched over the last 20 years to claim otherwise.
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Oct 18, 2016 09:13
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Migishu posted:Could be worse. A few pages back, but speaking of ObsoleteTechtalk, back when I worked at my University, we had someone come in, drop a pair of XP laptops on our desk (this was 2015), and tell us that they need these working yesterday, because they're the only laptops on the entire campus that are licensed to have the software for controlling the HVAC in every res hall. We checked. The laptops actually pre-dated the domain we had set up, and were never added. The domain was set up sometime in the early 2000s.
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Oct 18, 2016 10:18
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Neito posted:they're the only laptops on the entire campus that are licensed to have the software for controlling the HVAC in every res hall. Maybe I don't understand the market, but it seems to me that licensing for HVAC control software is silly, unless all HVAC equipment is generic and the only product differentiation is in the software. Why worry about licenses when the HVAC equipment is the dongle.
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Oct 18, 2016 11:01
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:Now code it in Visualbasic, shim it to run on .Net, make it take in data created in sequential flat files on the root of C, people enter time worked via a jsp page using IIS 6.0, and make sure that the database of client IDs is located in a datacenter on the 7th moon of Neptune, to ensure that latency is acceptably for any and all queries. My favorite part of the time tracking software we use at work is that it tracks time worked on a project in hours and minutes in two separate fields. So when you run a report on "total time spent by project" or something like that it'll dutifully return "Project XYZ - 123 hours. 930 minutes" 
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Oct 18, 2016 11:27
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Maybe I don't understand the market, but it seems to me that licensing for HVAC control software is silly, unless all HVAC equipment is generic and the only product differentiation is in the software. Generally it's a case of purchasing the current version of the control software during the initial equipment overhaul/installation. Five years go by, the computer hosting the software starts showing signs of age, and the desperate hunt for install media begins. When no one can find it somebody contacts the vendor/manufacturer and the handset bursts into flames as they are read the pricing on the latest version. No, the previous version is not supported (despite still functioning), nor can we provide media as we tossed all copies into an active volcano upon incrementing to version X+0.001. Heck in a lot of cases the installer loads the software and that's the last you ever see of any install media because *~residuals~*.
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Oct 18, 2016 12:34
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Internet Explorer posted:Ah... What? How is something that queries the timekeeper server for the time and then writes it to a database even remotely difficult? If it's so easy you should fix the problem and make a zillion dollars.
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Oct 18, 2016 12:45
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Trast posted:I sat down with the owner and tried to explain how we could help avoid the situation again. I also told him that I didn't feel qualified to do it myself and furthermore didn't want to be responsible when people ignored any new rules and safety changes. He understood completely and is fine with it. Probable solutions are pending once things get back to normal and he has a long talk with the people involved in infecting the server. Which knowing him will be something like "Stop clicking on things you shouldn't and costing me money before you leave me no other options, please." The only way I keep sane is telling myself that idiots keep me in a job.
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Oct 18, 2016 14:06
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Super Slash posted:The only way I keep sane is telling myself that idiots keep me in a job. I like to think of it as some people just naturally do well with computers and most don't. I don't know anything about sports and am not athletic. I imagine it would be much football being as essential as computers. IT professionals are the football coach trying to teach a bunch of out of shape people to play that don't really want to play in the first place, they are just there to not get fired and do their job. It breaks down most likely but I assume it works at making it easier to deal with terrible users.
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Oct 18, 2016 14:32
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guppy posted:Skilled admin assistants are better at that than you can possibly imagine. It is not a mindless, no-skill thing, no matter how much it may sound like it. There's a lot that goes into it, including stuff you don't even remember exists like shorthand. Without the SMEs and people who do the actual work the company would gradually grind to a halt. Without the admin assistants it will be a wilderness of wind and ghosts before lunch.
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Oct 18, 2016 17:34
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Internet Explorer posted:Ah... What? How is something that queries the timekeeper server for the time and then writes it to a database even remotely difficult? On the surface it is an insanely simple concept. In the real world however time tracking is a very complex system and all parts have to work flawlessly all the time as it directly impacts peoples pay. Sure you start with the basics, employee logs in, write the time to a database. But then you start adding layers to make up for the curse of humanity: You need a system to note and flag missed punches You need a system to allow a supervisor to edit the punch time if John stopped by the post office to pick up a package for the office on his way to work Because of the above the system now needs company hierarchy so it knows who John's supervisor is. Also we are now editing punch times so you need a system to track and log who changed a punch, when and why Due to state laws you need systems to track and flag things like a lunch break that was less than 30 minutes (In my state employers are required to pay for lunch breaks less than 30min long) Then you get in to the different needs of different companies, like company A rounding to the nearest 15 minutes while company B uses actual punch time and company C rounds to the nearest 5 minutes. Add to that company D that wants the system to flag if an employee is more than 15 minutes late for a shift, which means your time system now has to handle scheduling as well. We're currently installing a new cloud-based system, I'm just glad I'm not the one programming it.
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Oct 18, 2016 20:14
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While interesting and informative, a lot of the problems he discusses don't seem to have an obvious link to the issue of a timeclock tool. All that really matters in what I was talking about is the timestamp of when a button is clicked with the server being authoritative. Displaying the time back to the user in their own time zone is definitely more complex, but as long as you are recording it in UTC, displaying the correct time zone seems secondary. At the end of your video he even says there is open source software to handle time and timezones and that is what you should use. Essentially, it's already a solved problem. Bigass Moth posted:If it's so easy you should fix the problem and make a zillion dollars. What problem am I talking about fixing? The original topic of discussion was asking why time clock software is so expensive. I'm not even sure I agree with that premise. PremiumSupport posted:On the surface it is an insanely simple concept. In the real world however time tracking is a very complex system and all parts have to work flawlessly all the time as it directly impacts peoples pay. Sure you start with the basics, employee logs in, write the time to a database. But then you start adding layers to make up for the curse of humanity: I am familiar with the concepts and have implemented and administered time clock / HR software in the past. Those are complicated rules, but nothing earth-shattering.
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Oct 18, 2016 20:38
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PremiumSupport posted:
And every state is different, so you need to know what the laws are per state / county you want to operate the software in. What if the company has multiple sites, which ones are part of what. What if a state doesn't require you pay for a missed lunch but the company has that as a policy can they just tack it on? What is some laws apply to the place you operate from but others where the employee is. Oh your software is the blame on why this person didn't get paid? Company and/or employee likely has some kind of case against you depending on how the backpay was settled, hope you charged enough to make up for that!
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Oct 18, 2016 20:40
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Neito posted:a pair of XP laptops on our desk (this was 2015),  I had a client who had an old XP tower sitting in a corner at their shop, used for an aging, obsolete time clock system. Best part was the vendor for the time clock had upgraded several times and supported Win7/8 but the idiot "manager" didn't want to spend the money to upgrade. I got approval from my direct manager to tell the guy to pound sand if the time clock ever went belly up, because we didn't have anything documented from said manager on how it worked, common problems, or workarounds and fixes. Client didn't like it but when myself and another engineer spent several hours getting it working again after some botched Windows patching, and getting zero help from the vendor due to the system's age, it wasn't worth our time any more and we had more important things to deal with. The kicker was the fact that the whole cost to upgrade, including any new licensing/warranty from the vendor and a new PC, came in under $1500 - and this client routinely spent more than double that amount on PCs used for internal employees to do CAD work.
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Oct 18, 2016 22:34
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BOOTY-ADE posted:
In actuality, you (the manager in this case) are really you getting paid to keep things stable, so spend their money and do what's right by them dummy. I'm watching the new adam curtis doc so I, uh, got some ideas converging.
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Oct 18, 2016 22:40
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guppy posted:Skilled admin assistants are better at that than you can possibly imagine. It is not a mindless, no-skill thing, no matter how much it may sound like it. There's a lot that goes into it, including stuff you don't even remember exists like shorthand. In the words of Sir Humphrey "The purpose of the minutes is to reflect what everyone at the meeting would have said had they they thought about it before they said it". Anyone can produce bad minutes, minutes which are actually worth referring back to are something requiring genuine skill.
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Oct 18, 2016 23:05
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10:10 am Joe Shithead has opened case 1: cannot get into email please call 10:12 am Joe Shithead has opened case 2: CANNOT OPEN EMAIL PLEASE CALL IMMEDIATELY!!! 10:20 am Joe Shithead has opened case 3: PLEASE CALL EMAIL IS DOWN I CANNOT GET INTO EMAIL!!! 10:30am A Pinball Wizard has updated case 1: Called, Joe is with a client and unavailable until this afternoon. Adding cases 2 and 3 to case 1 and cancelling duplicates. 10:46 am Joe Shithead has commented on Case 3: TJHIS IS NOT RESOLVES WHY WAS THIS CASE CLOSED!!!! I AM PAYING YOU A LOT OF MONEY WHY ARE YOU IGNORNIG ME!!!!
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Oct 19, 2016 03:02
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A Pinball Wizard posted:10:10 am Joe Shithead has opened case 1: ughh this, but with being horribly understaffed so ticket close time even for simple stuff is 3 weeks average. Give a call and email a day in advance that you will be at that site, mostly decided by longest ticket and total tickets at that site. If there was only 1 ticket at a site it might go unanswered for 8 weeks, unless it was critical like a SMART board, though there was a good 6 months when I started when that was low priority because they took too long to work on! Yes let's take away teachers chalk boards and white boards then when the smartboard breaks don't touch it for 2 months and see how they do. At my current job a ticket rarely gets carried into the next day. It's so nice to be properly staffed, it's also nice to know how horribly wrong things can get with a bad manager directing tickets and blaming everyone under them instead of actually getting more people hired or authorizing overtime.
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Oct 19, 2016 04:23
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A Pinball Wizard posted:10:10 am Joe Shithead has opened case 1: please tell me the comments are verbatim
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Oct 19, 2016 04:32
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I love when I get scheduled for onsite visits to a client with no info but a calendar invite and a vague description  I get it, I'm sure the coordinator normally fills in the engineer in person before they leave. Except I'm 100% remote so information often is given to me very late 
pr0digal fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Oct 19, 2016 |
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Oct 19, 2016 05:12
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A request for larger hard dick came in. It made me laugh. That's my only ticket today so far, it's a nice day.
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Oct 19, 2016 13:27
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The Claptain posted:A request for larger hard dick came in. It made me laugh. They mean disk, I've seen this happen before. I've almost made the same mistake but I reread what I type.
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Oct 19, 2016 13:47
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The Claptain posted:A request for larger hard dick came in. It made me laugh.
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Oct 19, 2016 13:52
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pixaal posted:They mean disk, I've seen this happen before. I've almost made the same mistake but I reread what I type. I know, I have been almost guilty of the same mistake in the past. My coworker, when looking at request just nodded and said "Yep, she looks like she needs it"
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Oct 19, 2016 13:56
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pixaal posted:They mean disk, I've seen this happen before. I've almost made the same mistake but I reread what I type.  pr0digal posted:I love when I get scheduled for onsite visits to a client with no info but a calendar invite and a vague description He had no idea why he was called in, I had no idea why he was called in, nobody else owned up to why he was called in. Conveniently there was also a large delivery of mount arms and monitors that I did not order which were also a different model from the standard kit, now shenanigans have happened I said it's lovely donkey work but you could rig up all of these monitors if nobody's actually requested work done. I couldn't move very much without being in pain and I couldn't be hosed to return a big order, either way he did install most of them considering whoever bought these monitors didn't even consider to also order the video input cables needed.
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Oct 19, 2016 14:11
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Super Slash posted:Uh-huh That happens to me way too often. I show up to the complete surprise of the client. Either they ignore e-mails or nobody on my team confirms with them. I just found out that today's install will involve working with the vendor of the hardware. Guess who didn't coordinate with them? If you guessed "the same person who doesn't tell me poo poo" then you win. Guess I'm only doing a quarter of the scheduled work (that I was told about five minutes ago). But it's okay, I'm getting shoved into a meeting I have no knowledge of.
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Oct 19, 2016 15:24
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BOOTY-ADE posted:
Our AMX system in our main conference room/boardroom is controlled by software running on a Compaq Pentium-D tower because there's some serial dongle that we haven't been able to get working anywhere else.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:13
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Internet Explorer posted:Ah... What? How is something that queries the timekeeper server for the time and then writes it to a database even remotely difficult? Methanar posted:#!/bin/bash I'm so triggered right now.
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Oct 19, 2016 18:38
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KoRMaK posted:Some people find it hard to accept the consumable, disposable world we live in. Even when it's someone else's checkbook. Oh no doubt, it's tougher because I worked for an MSP and this client was one of 17 I took care of - problem was, any work we did on their old, broken time clock system (and anything else that was older than dinosaur crap) had a tendency to pull me away from other more pressing work. We ended up dumping that client later anyways after said manager tried throwing us under the bus for a Crypto infection that hit his PC and 2 others, none of which were being backed up (again, because he felt that the $18/month charge for backup licensing and management was "unacceptable") and that had to be flattened and reloaded from scratch. He also complained about our antivirus (Symantec Endpoint at the time) and how it always made his system slow and never caught anything and blah blah blah...until I set up logging software on his PC and saw the sketchy websites he visited, toolbars he loaded, and the three other antivirus products he installed that were all competing/interfering with each other. Dude would bitch up a storm because he signed up for the lowest cost MSP plan with a limited amount of hours each month, and inevitably we'd end up going over those hours because of how incompetent he was. Just wasn't worth the hassle and because the manager fought us so much, we told him flat out that we weren't renewing when their client contract expired.
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Oct 19, 2016 19:09
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pr0digal posted:That happens to me way too often. I show up to the complete surprise of the client. Either they ignore e-mails or nobody on my team confirms with them. A friend recently walked out of a clients office because they made him wait for over a half hour on a Friday afternoon. They were the ones who wanted him there in the first place.
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Oct 19, 2016 20:26
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Back when I worked in Sales Engineering, i'd fly out to a client's place with equipment, and they would then decide, "Oh, well, i'ts not a good time to run a test, can you come back in a few days??"
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Oct 19, 2016 21:03
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BOOTY-ADE posted:Just wasn't worth the hassle and because the manager fought us so much, we told him flat out that we weren't renewing when their client contract expired. God I wish we would do that. Joe shithead was hammering us because his pop3 email was full again. His free pop3 email, which only comes with 50 mb of server space and which he insists on using on his phone so deleting mail from the server once downloaded is off the table. He calls in about this at least once a month, throws a fit, we explain the issue and reiterate that if he wants more space he has to pay, he threatens to leave, call gets closed rinse and repeat next month. The best part is, he used to have exchange with a 5gb mailbox, but decided the $7/Mo was too much when he could just use his free account 
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Oct 19, 2016 22:55
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If this guy is taking up so much of your time on phone support, wouldn't it be in your company's best interest to fire him as a customer?
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Oct 19, 2016 23:06
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I worked for an MSP that was just starting to learn the values of not renewing clients. When you're small and scrambling to get off the ground, you take whatever business you can. When you're looking to expand, you have to be more selective in your clients. If yours and their interests don't align or they're not a good fit, move along. I think it's a hard thing for new businesses to learn.
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Oct 19, 2016 23:12
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Could you please type your password here so I don't know it? Sure! <says each character out loud as he types it in>
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Oct 19, 2016 23:19
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uPen posted:Could you please type your password here so I don't know it? Gonna laugh if he was spelling out incorrect information as he typed in his actual password.
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Oct 20, 2016 00:23
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