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I'm sure I've written about it in BSS before, but one of the abiding problems of Marvel in the last 16 years, after Quesada took over, is that no character seems to be able to stick with a given status quo for longer than a couple of years. Some characters have rolled with it, like Daredevil, and some characters can weather the storm reasonably well, like Steve Rogers's solo books. With the X-Men, it's been actively detrimental and it has been for a long time. They've gone from reopening the school to most of the students dying to M-Day to the move to Utopia to active nation-building to the Phoenix Five to Cyclops's renegade team and so on. Every creative team comes with a new setting, mission statement, character lineup, and world-shaking changes, because to some extent, the modern X-Men seem to have the old Wonder Woman problem; nobody wants to just write the X-Men, they want to write the definitive X-Men. All of Marvel would do well to calm down a bit, but the X-Men as a storytelling engine are explicitly built around slow burns, big casts, and a relative degree of stability, none of which are easily available in modern Marvel.
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Oct 18, 2016 14:31
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Wanderer posted:Every creative team comes with a new setting, mission statement, character lineup, and world-shaking changes, because to some extent, the modern X-Men seem to have the old Wonder Woman problem; nobody wants to just write the X-Men, they want to write the definitive X-Men. Sure, there's a bit of that with Fantastic Four as well. Every writer who came on (I'd say Byrne started it but it probably began as soon as it had a regular writer after Stan and Jack left) wanted to write the ultimate Doom story and the ultimate Galactus story, they all wanted to be the one who finally made Johnny grow up, who finally reconciled Ben to his status as the Thing, who had the team go through a break-up and/or seemingly kill one of the team, and who introduced a new substitute team member (there's probably more, but to my mind those are the main ones). Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Oct 18, 2016 |
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Oct 18, 2016 14:57
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The X-Men are kind of a soap opera which is why I think the constant status quo shifts don't work for them. For good or ill they've been defined that way, as melodrama and interpersonal conflicts mixed with superheroics on a scale a lot of other stuff never really does. However the personal drama really needs time to build. The X-Men I think need a relatively stable status quo which is broken by their own actions. Obviously all that is still somewhat present but I think having a status quo so the influence can be on the X-Men and not the worldsetting works best. It's also why I think all the best recent X-books are ones that focus on smaller-scale personal drama stuff.
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Oct 18, 2016 15:15
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My half thought of how to "fix" the x-men or at least make it what it promises is instead of having four x-books, have one head writer and 4 regular writers, write it like a tv-show and release x-men weekly, $2.99. Release a collection every quarter and take a week or two off so people catch up and then just keep rolling along. I think what people want out of their x-men is those long running stories and twisting narratives. They want the "thickness" of a book. People love the Claremount era cause he would do stuff across like 20 issues to pay off, give them that. May even convert a bunch of people from collections to singles if they are going to the store every week.
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Oct 18, 2016 16:20
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Speaking of soap operas, they just revealed that Iceman's role in the upcoming IvX tie-in is going to be being torn between being part of the X-Man and his lover, who's an Inhuman. Named Romeo.
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Oct 18, 2016 16:26
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Booooo
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Oct 18, 2016 16:46
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Waffleman_ posted:Booooo We don't have any transgender superheroes do we? That's Iceman's next twist, while explaining to the X-Men that he loves someone on the Inhuman side he reveals he does so as "JULIET aka ICE WOMAN!"(I think Ice Queen would be a little insensitive). He's not a man in a woman's body, he's not a woman in a man's body. He's truly gender fluid. This is a sarcasm about Bendis making him gay. Bendis if you read this: don't do this, it's a joke. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Oct 18, 2016 |
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Oct 18, 2016 17:20
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PaybackJack posted:We don't have any transgender superheroes do we? That's Iceman's next twist, while explaining to the X-Men that he loves someone on the Inhuman side he reveals he does so as "JULIET aka ICE WOMAN!"(I think Ice Queen would be a little insensitive). He's not a man in a woman's body, he's not a woman in a man's body. He's truly gender fluid. This post is worse than that subplot.
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Oct 18, 2016 17:21
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Koi Boi is transgender. Though, yes, that's a lovely post.
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Oct 18, 2016 17:27
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Surely if you give Iceman another life changing character makeover that will make people care about him. right? right?!
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Oct 18, 2016 17:40
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To be fair, relying on gimmicks has always been the death knell for a character. If you want to imbue characters with those qualities than you need to use them well, not slap them on the character and expect people to flock to them. An example of how this is well done is Kamala Khan. An example of how this has not been done all that well is Iceman, because no one has managed to make him a character you can give a poo poo about outside the hardcore fans.
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Oct 18, 2016 17:47
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Rochallor posted:Wolverine and the X-Men was basically this up to Secret Wars or so, but even then, the adults were still a big focus (I'd bet, off the top of my head, that Glob Herman's never made the Team Members section on the recap page, for example). kid cyclops is gonna be on the new champions team so maybe he's already out of all new x. also you forgot wolverine
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Oct 18, 2016 17:47
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Honestly it feels to me like ANXM is basically the end result of this: Where Marvel thew up their hands and basically stopped trying and instead recycled the O5/spinoffs of existing characters (Evan, Laura, the Bamfs). Idie's basically the exception that proves the rule.
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Oct 18, 2016 18:39
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trashbuilder posted:My half thought of how to "fix" the x-men or at least make it what it promises is instead of having four x-books, have one head writer and 4 regular writers, write it like a tv-show and release x-men weekly, $2.99. Release a collection every quarter and take a week or two off so people catch up and then just keep rolling along. I think what people want out of their x-men is those long running stories and twisting narratives. They want the "thickness" of a book. People love the Claremount era cause he would do stuff across like 20 issues to pay off, give them that. May even convert a bunch of people from collections to singles if they are going to the store every week. This is an interesting idea. When I read older X-Men, one thing that stands out is how dense the books are, even well into the 90s. Boiling down to the finer points of the story would stop everything from feeling so empty.
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Oct 18, 2016 18:56
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Infamous Iron Man #1 spoils the gently caress out of the end of CW 2. You have been warned.
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Oct 18, 2016 20:20
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Rhyno posted:Infamous Iron Man #1 spoils the gently caress out of the end of CW 2. So spoil it already. Cause I ain't reading that poo poo.
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Oct 18, 2016 20:22
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was it all a dream? Please be all a dream
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Oct 18, 2016 20:31
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Soonmot posted:was it all a dream? Please be all a dream Replace dream with premonition. That's my hope.
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Oct 18, 2016 20:42
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Bold move for Marvel to end their big event by copying the last Twilight movie.
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Oct 18, 2016 20:51
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Jiro posted:So spoil it already. Cause I ain't reading that poo poo. Tony dead
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Oct 18, 2016 22:41
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I'll be genuinely shocked if anyone is actually surprised by that.
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Oct 18, 2016 22:42
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This is gonna be like avoiding Rebith again, but probably longer.
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Oct 18, 2016 22:50
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Spoiler discussion: Tony being dead for a while is good, right? Seemed weird if they were going to try to make Riri happen with the original still hanging around
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Oct 18, 2016 23:00
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Lobok posted:Spoiler discussion: Tony being dead for a while is good, right? Seemed weird if they were going to try to make Riri happen with the original still hanging around Yeah probably. If the current Marvel backlash/slump doesn't spell her doom.
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Oct 18, 2016 23:03
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So Foolkiller was behind it all? Great. NOW I need that comic.
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Oct 18, 2016 23:07
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Teenage Fansub posted:So Foolkiller was behind it all? Great. NOW I need that comic. I couldn't believe that he was in league with Monkey Joe. Doreen was so broken hearted to find out he was alive, and evil.
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Oct 18, 2016 23:11
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Rhyno posted:Tony dead Figures. That was getting telegraphed pretty hard at the end of last im issue too E: finally finished reading last week's books and mosaic fell kinda flat for me and solo was just bad site fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Oct 18, 2016 |
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Oct 18, 2016 23:13
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I read spoilers all the time since I end getting to my LCS once a month. Now, I haven't read the end of CW yet, but could Rhyno posted:Tony dead mean, maybe Cap, eventually, gets jolted out of his hydra/brainwash bullshit because of guilt or sadness or something? That's pure speculation on my part, btw.
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Oct 19, 2016 00:02
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Rhyno posted:Tony dead Oh wow look how shocked i am 
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Oct 19, 2016 00:03
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I completely believe this will stick. Much like Spock and Captain Hydra. So who does the dirty deed?
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Oct 19, 2016 01:25
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I actually am a little surprised by this because I feel like it would make Carol Danvers come across 10000 times worse than she already does and I hadn't expected Bendis to be that idiotic about this. But, hey, wonders never cease, etc.
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Oct 19, 2016 01:31
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BrianWilly posted:I actually am a little surprised by this because I feel like it would make Carol Danvers come across 10000 times worse than she already does and I hadn't expected Bendis to be that idiotic about this. But, hey, wonders never cease, etc. Carol's next comic calls her the most popular superhero in the world. Bendis thinks this will get Carol over. Marvel is dead and determined to make her their Wonder Woman and keep her in A-List status to a desperate degree. So expect Carol to be involved in poo poo like this until either her sales rise or Marvel gives up.
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Oct 19, 2016 01:42
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Onmi posted:Carol's next comic calls her the most popular superhero in the world. Bendis thinks this will get Carol over. Marvel is dead and determined to make her their Wonder Woman and keep her in A-List status to a desperate degree. So expect Carol to be involved in poo poo like this until either her sales rise or Marvel gives up. Ooh oh! Give up! Put my money on give up!
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Oct 19, 2016 01:45
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If killing Tony turns Carol into a worldwide hero he must get into some seriously heinous poo poo by the end of cw2
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Oct 19, 2016 02:06
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site posted:If killing Tony turns Carol into a worldwide hero he must get into some seriously heinous poo poo by the end of cw2 Well the Solicit is. quote:The Greatest. That's what they call her. Carol Danvers has been to the depths of outer space and back, but that still hasn't prepared her for her newfound status of biggest super hero ever. Yaas, Queen! Danvers may not like the crown she's wearing, but boy does it look good on her. Just watch out for the thorns it comes with--forces trying to take down everything Carol has built. I don't know how we get from where we currently are to there.
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Oct 19, 2016 02:08
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Maybe it's just the public perception of her while the people who actually know what happened largely dislike her?
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Oct 19, 2016 02:10
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Or he died stopping Ulysses, and then Carol stopped him.
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Oct 19, 2016 02:13
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They gotta do something before the movie.
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Oct 19, 2016 02:17
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Wait is Ulysses evil now?
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Oct 19, 2016 02:17
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Roth posted:Wait is Ulysses evil now? No idea, but sure there is going to be some sort of twist, and we know the real bad guy of the even (Cap) is still kicking
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Oct 19, 2016 02:21
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