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quote:Sony has said online games won't get any Pro patches because it'd give Pro players an advantage, so it's not going to happen since the Bloodsouls franchise relies pretty heavily on its online social aspect. sony's quote on this is here: https://pvplive.net/c/playstation-4-pro-actually-wont-increase-your-fram the only thing they said is they won't increase target framerate on pro for pvp games. the games could still be patched in other ways and also incidental differences between the hardware such as faster loading times on pro or closer performance to target may still give advantages however slight.
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Oct 19, 2016 02:46
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Looper posted:also when I say emotional manipulation, I'm mostly thinking of the introduction with Sarah and the end of the DLC when Riley and Ellie reconcile I think emotional manipulation is necessary in games and honestly fairly overt emotional manipulation is necessary in an ideal game writing situation. A major difference between a movie and a game is player action. Players don't just need to understand or sympathize with a character they, to some degree, need to want to support their actions. This doesn't mean they need to think the character is 'right' but they need to want to follow through on their actions for reasons besides "the game made me do it." A lot of the strongest moments in games are ones where the game plays with your emotions so significantly that, even if it's just for a moment, you're in the avatar's head. There's a lot of clever tricks for this and while not all of them work when they do work they're significant and amplify what would otherwise be simple moments into something more significant. It's forceful but I think it has to be forceful because the game is demanding more from the player than a film would. It also inherently is going to fail for some people and I don't think that's a sign it failed unless the 'it fails' group becomes a significant number. (The ending of Prince of Persia 2006 is a good example here, where the extreme emotional manipulation was so out of tone with what the game earned it got a fairly big backlash.) Player choice is obviously a significant factor but I also think a well-written game is one where the player acts on a 'choice' (even a false choice) so readily that they don't even think about it. If you look at it from the outside, yeah, it's pretty cheap but I don't think games stand up as well to being just looked at from the outside. It's an experience where the interaction is an integral part of the whole and not just in the "I can change how the plot goes" sort of way.
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Oct 19, 2016 02:54
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While most people say TLoU used its story to compensate for bland gameplay, the game part of TLoU was actually the biggest draw for me. I love action games with resource management such as RE4 (best game) and Dead Space, so TLoU was right up my alley, and while I'll admit RE4 and Dead Space have better gameplay, TLoU still has a lot going for it. I'd say what really helped it stand out is that while many games are about getting to a point where you perform flawlessly, TLoU is a game about loving up, getting put in a bad spot, and having to think on your feet. My biggest problem with it is that once you figure out the ammo drop system, the tension around the resource management dissipates a bit. You never have to worry about completely running out of ammo cause bodies always drop more when you're running low. I'd appreciate it if there were a higher difficulty where that was relaxed somewhat. Where getting ammo before or during the next encounter wasn't always a guarantee.
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Oct 19, 2016 03:10
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ImpAtom posted:I think emotional manipulation is necessary in games and honestly fairly overt emotional manipulation is necessary in an ideal game writing situation. Technically all media participates in what you could call emotional manipulation, that's just a given. The camera is positioned a certain way, the music in a certain key, the characters wearing certain clothes, all to encourage you to feel what the creators want you to feel. So again when I use the phrase emotional manipulation, I mean those instances (and they are always brief instances for me) where that influence is so overt and in your face that you're removed from the character and the narrative. Those strongest moments are strong because of all the build-up and care put into them. I don't support Joel because his daughter got shot ten minutes after I had to explore a house with her, I support him because of all the time he's spent with Ellie and because I've been right there as they bond. Playing as Sarah is manipulative, playing as Ellie isn't. I can't not look at something from the outside when I've barely started the game. The game's other stand out scenes like Tess and the giraffes work because you're given the time to invest yourself in the narrative
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Oct 19, 2016 03:10
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My sister cried at the start of The Last Of Us so while it is ~emotionally manipulative~ or whatever, it is certainly effective
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Oct 19, 2016 03:33
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would you prefer a different phrase
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Oct 19, 2016 03:42
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CJacobs posted:My sister cried at the start of The Last Of Us so while it is ~emotionally manipulative~ or whatever, it is certainly effective It literally hit home a little harder for me because the skyline and place you're at is the city I live in. It made it that much more personal I suppose. The real draw for me - that is, what manipulates me into feeling things with games, movies, etc - is music and sound. Good voice acting and great music go a long way towards bringing me in because I guess that's just the way I'm wired. The Last of Us has this sound track that is really well-done and uses recurring themes at key points to evoke certain earlier scenes and associated feelings feelings. It also occasionally uses loud and bombastic sound effects to startle, disorient, and push players into more emotionally vulnerable positions than they might be, making it easier to identify with the characters even if you didn't agree with them (and boy did I not agree with Joel). Add in the best-in-class voice-acting and it was all enough to pull me through some of the occasional bad pacing or weak writing. It helps that it was a pretty fun game too. The multiplayer was surprisingly neat.
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Oct 19, 2016 03:51
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ImpAtom posted:I'd argue that The Last of Us is one of the better-written games to come out recently. It's manipulative but it's one of the few games I can think of that has actual coherent themes, arcs and execution of those and has enough depth that you can actually discuss character motivations without going (X) IS THE GOOD GUY. I liked Firewatch a lot, but I don't really play games with stories (outside of JRPGs which can have fun/engaging writing in moments but usually the stories are bare bones structures for whatever characters and jokes they wanna write)
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Oct 19, 2016 04:06
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I read that Worst Things For Sale site occasionally that has ads at the bottom of the SA Forums and I ended up reading about a book called the "Furred Reich" Here is a screenshot from the author's amazon page 
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Oct 19, 2016 04:14
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Looper posted:would you prefer a different phrase I was agreeing with your statement
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Oct 19, 2016 04:17
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FirstAidKite posted:I read that Worst Things For Sale site occasionally that has ads at the bottom of the SA Forums and I ended up reading about a book called the "Furred Reich" FYI that entire site is basically built around getting people to click on Amazon links so the author can soak up affiliate referral money from them. It has some funny stuff on it but that soured me on it, especially since he started doing stuff like not letting RSS feeds display articles just to drive more clicks.
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Oct 19, 2016 04:36
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Guy Mann posted:FYI that entire site is basically built around getting people to click on Amazon links so the author can soak up affiliate referral money from them. It has some funny stuff on it but that soured me on it, especially since he started doing stuff like not letting RSS feeds display articles just to drive more clicks. This person sounds smart. Good for them.
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Oct 19, 2016 04:38
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I forget what goon runs that site but I will forever be slightly annoyed because he also runs the aggregator site and aggregator ads were always just the dumbest things where I thought it'd link me to a funny thread that someone got mad and bought and ad for but nope it was just aggregator
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Oct 19, 2016 04:40
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It's drewtoothpaste, I don't remember his sa usernamecodenameFANGIO posted:This person sounds smart. Good for them. People don't deserve props for being smart if the smart thing they did is take advantage of other people
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Oct 19, 2016 04:43
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I don't really mind the amazon links thing because  he writes and points out funny things and I feel like it wouldn't be much different from if he was running ads on his site or whateverthat aggregator poo poo was dumb tho, especially when the ads switched from showing you they linked to aggregator to showing you they would link to a referral thing so that you wouldn't know where they went until you clicked. It's like the sa forums ad equivalent of looking through steam and clicking on a cool-looking game and then it's one of those text-only CYOAs that brag about how many words they have and they don't have any pictures or graphics or anything outside of a blank white page with some text. I just end up feeling tricked.
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Oct 19, 2016 04:48
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Looper posted:would you prefer a different phrase I think what you mean is "dripping with sentiment," maybe? Like obviously stories are trying to access our pathos, but some of them do it ham-fistedly enough that you expect a little orphan to say "Please sir, I want some more" or w/e.
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Oct 19, 2016 04:48
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http://store.steampowered.com/app/312300/ That kinda poo poo.  "Oh! Something called Heroes Rise: HeroFall, I wonder what that is, sounds like some kinda superhero game, maybe it'll be neat"    "Oh."
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Oct 19, 2016 04:53
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ImpAtom posted:I'd be genuinely curious to hear what the better-written games are if TLOU is so terrible.
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Oct 19, 2016 04:56
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ImpAtom posted:I'd argue that The Last of Us is one of the better-written games to come out recently. It's manipulative but it's one of the few games I can think of that has actual coherent themes, arcs and execution of those and has enough depth that you can actually discuss character motivations without going (X) IS THE GOOD GUY. riven
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Oct 19, 2016 04:58
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my 7850 isnt even on the list so i guess $139 is worth the upgrade (i have $146 in my amazon wallet) e: this seems to be more accurate, still would rank the same on that list i think 
The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Oct 19, 2016 |
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Oct 19, 2016 05:01
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ImpAtom posted:I'd be genuinely curious to hear what the better-written games are if TLOU is so terrible. Also I wonder how that voice actor's strike is going to do since they are apparently preparing to strike on Friday.
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Oct 19, 2016 05:11
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that's a good game. i sort of wish it would get the myst remaster treatment one of these days.
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Oct 19, 2016 05:14
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sadly impossible as they lost all the assets
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Oct 19, 2016 05:14
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ImpAtom posted:I'd argue that The Last of Us is one of the better-written games to come out recently. It's manipulative but it's one of the few games I can think of that has actual coherent themes, arcs and execution of those and has enough depth that you can actually discuss character motivations without going (X) IS THE GOOD GUY. Do you like horny bunnies 2
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Oct 19, 2016 05:16
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corn in the bible posted:sadly impossible as they lost all the assets ah that explains why it never has  it's the only myst game i can never get to work for some reason. maybe i should just try putting it in an ipad or something
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Oct 19, 2016 05:20
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Bicyclops posted:ah that explains why it never has yeah it's a quicktime thing, it's a pain to get working. sort of works in scummvm but not all of it and you need some cues that are broken to win so e: its on gog, maybe that version works? i dunno
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Oct 19, 2016 05:23
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The Last of Us is really well written but it is also a really really good game as well, I have played it seven times and it never gets old. by comparison after playing through Uncharted 4 twice I feel like I probably won't go back to the campaign mode again for like probably a couple years
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Oct 19, 2016 05:24
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Oh great, Season 2 of the Walking Dead has two Kennies.
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Oct 19, 2016 05:25
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Walking Dead Solid: The Twin Kennys
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Oct 19, 2016 05:29
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does the new shadow warrior have the dance moves from the first game or are abilities handled in a more traditional way?
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Oct 19, 2016 06:00
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Sort of. The abilities aren't inputted via fighting game inputs this time around but they do still use the movement keys (forward+right click to do the forward stab, back+right click to do the shockwave, side+right click to do the spin, etc). The momentum-based swordfighting is also still in, so swinging while moving/turning left will swing from right to left and so on.
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Oct 19, 2016 06:03
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CJacobs posted:It's drewtoothpaste, I don't remember his sa username M R CRACKER
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Oct 19, 2016 08:24
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https://twitter.com/Kaizerkunkun/status/788469296771035136
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Oct 19, 2016 09:56
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Death Stranding is coming to Steam, huh edit: Oh, wait, we've known that for a while now haven't we
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Oct 19, 2016 10:02
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ImpAtom posted:I'd argue that The Last of Us is one of the better-written games to come out recently. It's manipulative but it's one of the few games I can think of that has actual coherent themes, arcs and execution of those and has enough depth that you can actually discuss character motivations without going (X) IS THE GOOD GUY. It doesn't really matter how good the writing is if the story you're trying to tell isn't good. The story is basically "Joel and Ellie go from A to B" with very little else going on in the overarching story. They never do anything with the cordyceps thing aside from having an explanation for why there are zombies. I get that the game is more about the subplots that happen along the way, but they're all so predictable and manipulative. You meet someone, the game tries to force you to care about them in the shortest amount of time possible and then something horrible happens to them. I agree that it's great that Joel has motivations beyond being the "Good Guy" and that the game never outright tells you why he's acting like he is, but all that kind of goes out a window when they introduce a character who's so overtly evil that it's hard for me not to see him as The Bad Guy who's only there to make Joel look good. Like you said in another post, the thing that sets games apart from books, movies and tv-series is that players can interact with them. You're saying they have to be forceful, but that's only really true because they're trying to do something with a medium that isn't well suited for it. They're taking what is essentially a tv-series and trying to make it work as a game. The problem here is that you're equating good writing with good movie writing or good book writing. They're different mediums and can't really be compared directly. The Last of Us has the best movie writing I've ever seen in a game, but it's still not as good as an actual movie and the gameplay isn't too great either. It fails at being something it's not, while also failing at being what it was supposed to be. Games like Metroid Prime, Resident Evil 4 and the Souls games are better because they feel like the story is written with a game in mind. Most of what's going on in the game has already transpired, and you're just tying up loose ends while trying to figure out what the hell happened. There's something to motivate you to keep going, but it never get's in the way of actually playing the game and there's an interactive aspect of going through the world, seeing how the cataclysmic events before the game have shaped the world and reading scraps of lore that you can scrounge up.
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Oct 19, 2016 10:27
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The Last of Us is about the development of Joel-Ellie dynamic starting from the beginning of the journey through the steps that motivated the final decision at the end. The game has a strong psychological arc of both characters that leads to that moment. This is why the delivery of the story focuses on actor performances and dialogues. If you summarize a substantial part like that with 'characters go from A to B' you might as well simplify every story with that sentence. It's not about how the world changed because of the characters' actions but about how the journey created a bond between them and how the world they live in functions. It was interesting enough, the game didn't need more. Also I didn't have the feeling that I was supposed to care about every NPC that got killed in the game. Those stories were there to set the stage for the protagonists' actions, they were part of the world-building, creating context and setting the mood rather than mourning idividual losses. At least that's how I read them.
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Oct 19, 2016 11:20
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Jay Rust posted:I received a cash injection from my wonderful grandparents for my birthday, and I thought to myself, "Now I can finally buy a Bloodborne machine!" I'll be getting the Pro myself next month and I've got: - Ratchet & Clank - Final Fantasy XV - Dragon Quest Builders - Persona 5 As well as Bloodbourne so I'm okay with grabbing the PS4 now it's got more games i'm interested in.
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Oct 19, 2016 11:29
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I might trade in my PS4 for a Pro once they show off some games that are very obviously better on it. If the extra horsepower does have a noticeable effect then that'll help sway me too. edit: And I guess the question is, will that extra horsepower have any effect on the things about PS4 games that aren't dependant on how they're coded, such the load times in Bloodborne as someone brought up
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Oct 19, 2016 11:31
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It probably wont make a crazy difference. Just figure if i'm gonna get a PS4 to go all out.
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Oct 19, 2016 11:32
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LoveBoatCaptain posted:The story is basically "Joel and Ellie go from A to B" n-noo
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Oct 19, 2016 11:55
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