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Crowsbeak posted:I want proof that Venezuela isn't a place that makes Honduras look like paradise and you give me soviet propganda those writers are from the west and the conversation has moved from venezuela to actually existing socialism generally. try to keep up
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Oct 19, 2016 01:29
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Homework Explainer posted:those writers are from the west and the conversation has moved from venezuela to actually existing socialism generally. try to keep up Which failed in the USSR.
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Oct 19, 2016 01:33
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There is a thread for Venezuela, I'm sure they'd love to discuss these things there.
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Oct 19, 2016 01:42
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Human Rights in the Soviet Union: they don't really exist, but that's OK, because they don't really exist in capitalist countries. Brilliant. e: Also the Holodomor didn't happen, and the NKVD executed, at most, one seventh of the number of people they definitely executed during the Great Purge. Well, heck, now I know where you get your facts from. Tacky-Ass Rococco fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Oct 19, 2016 |
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Oct 19, 2016 01:50
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Human Rights in the Soviet Union: they don't really exist, but that's OK, because they don't really exist in capitalist countries. Brilliant. you expect me to believe you actually read it rather than glance at the title edit: i mean come on man you could at least TRY to pretend you gave it a skim, this is the opening page of the essential chapter for god's sake 
R. Guyovich fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Oct 19, 2016 |
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Oct 19, 2016 04:36
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Homework Explainer posted:you expect me to believe you actually read it rather than glance at the title I don't know what you're trying to say. Between pages 225-226, the author goes out of his way to minimize the number of deaths that occurred during the Great Famine. He doesn't suggest any numbers himself, but merely asserts that the anti-coms are all wrong and guilty of wild exaggerations. This is amusing, because on page 243, he claims that the maximum number of people who could have been killed during the Great Purge was 100,000 (e: with the strong implication that the reality was far less), understating the true number by ~600,000. Sure, it was the 1980s, and he had no access to the relevant archives. But it's telling that you chose to cite a work that is, objectively, completely out of date. The author's approach to civil liberties in general is pretty laughable. With regard to the US, he acts as prosecutor, while with regard to the USSR, he acts as defense counsel. What makes it funny is that after all of that, his conclusion is that there is "no qualitative difference" between the US and the USSR when it comes to civil liberties. For anyone who isn't a committed M-List, this is damning in itself. Tacky-Ass Rococco fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Oct 19, 2016 |
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Oct 19, 2016 04:54
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Regarding Venezuela, I would say they were more syncretic than anything else, they adopted some of the worse economic policies from across the spectrum including a rather neoliberal approach to taxes, unworkable price controls and a complete reliant on one form of exports. They wanted everything including a pretty standard consumer economy without compromising anything, it didn't work. That said, once you have a former military officer basically take control over the left of a country, it isn't that surprising what happens next. Ultimately, the issue in Latin America seems to be more of an issue of leadership and ability to compromise. There doesn't seem to be any half way positions either implement price controls you can't afford or freeze the budget for 20 years.
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Oct 19, 2016 05:05
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Ardennes posted:Ultimately, the issue in Latin America seems to be more of an issue of leadership and ability to compromise. There doesn't seem to be any half way positions either implement price controls you can't afford or freeze the budget for 20 years. I think it's instructive to compare how East Asia managed that consensus (especially given that it did not always start off with such stability, e.g., South Korea under Rhee was much more dysfunctional than it was under Park after the 1961 coup d'etat). Glibly - the landlord class had been publicly discredited due to wartime collaboration, and yet the appeal of leftism was rigidly circumscribed due to geopolitical proximity to visibly murderous communist regimes. Against this backdrop, nominally socialist governments could undertake dramatic land reforms to buy a mandate for sweeping industrial change, but without raising the spectre that land reform is a prelude to total purges of anticommunist allies. The promise of the "pink tide" was supposed to be that Latin America, no longer a battleground for the US State Department and Gromyko's best, would be able to sustain such moderation. This was arguably working about as well as could have been hoped, taking the vagaries of each country as given - the region cannot really be blamed for the Chinese slowdown, and all governments would face difficulties in such situations. Maybe, given a decade, it could have stabilized. Maybe. The difficulties of such moderation is vividly demonstrated by Andres Velasco being burnt in effigy for running a surplus in 2006, then being celebrated for having a surplus to run down in 2008. ronya fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Oct 19, 2016 |
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Oct 19, 2016 08:29
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Homework Explainer posted:you expect me to believe you actually read it rather than glance at the title Like anyone is going to bother dissecting your poo poo rear end propaganda.
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Oct 19, 2016 08:36
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The fact that in 2016 Marxists and socialists aren't met with anything but laughter is beyond me. And if the goon criticizing the FARC for giving up the arms was serious, I sincerely hope he tries to start a revolution somewhere and gets himself arrested. Edit.same laughter should be given to Ayn Rand fanboys Redrum and Coke fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Oct 19, 2016 |
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Oct 19, 2016 08:50
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qnqnx posted:Like anyone is going to bother dissecting your poo poo rear end propaganda. hey, yet another person who didn't read and is proud of it. it's very cool to dismiss exhaustively researched sources out of hand when you don't like the conclusions they draw as "propaganda," which i'm sure you've never mocked others for doing
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Oct 19, 2016 14:50
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Homework Explainer posted:hey, yet another person who didn't read and is proud of it. it's very cool to dismiss exhaustively researched sources out of hand when you don't like the conclusions they draw as "propaganda," which i'm sure you've never mocked others for doing Hey guys, before you judge my defunct, murderous ideology, how about you read this Soviet apology? Kthanx
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Oct 19, 2016 16:01
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Non Serviam posted:The fact that in 2016 Marxists and socialists aren't met with anything but laughter is beyond me. The joke is on you, as I'd rather die than be arrested.
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Oct 19, 2016 16:04
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Homework Explainer posted:hey, yet another person who didn't read and is proud of it. it's very cool to dismiss exhaustively researched sources out of hand when you don't like the conclusions they draw as "propaganda," which i'm sure you've never mocked others for doing So, is Borneo Jimmy your role model or something?
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Oct 19, 2016 16:55
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Ardennes posted:Regarding Venezuela, I would say they were more syncretic than anything else, they adopted some of the worse economic policies from across the spectrum including a rather neoliberal approach to taxes, unworkable price controls and a complete reliant on one form of exports. They wanted everything including a pretty standard consumer economy without compromising anything, it didn't work. That said, once you have a former military officer basically take control over the left of a country, it isn't that surprising what happens next. Didn't they also enact strict austerity?
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Oct 19, 2016 16:55
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:The joke is on you, as I'd rather die than be arrested. I believe in you, champ. Go chase that dream.
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Oct 19, 2016 16:57
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Cunha has just been arrested. It will be interesting to see if he will make a deal.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:33
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Crowsbeak posted:Which failed in the USSR. 
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Oct 19, 2016 19:01
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punk rebel ecks posted:Didn't they also enact strict austerity? I think it depends on the area of spending, but health and education got a big hit while the military got off relatively easy. It does seem like Venezuela's economy is managed by throwing every day idea together. If there is one lesson to learn, steep long term consumer price controls just don't work. (Admittedly, the lesson should have been learned with the Soviets.) Ironically enough if Venezuela instead of focusing on price controls instead focused on the Missions and building up reserves, they probably would have been okay. To this day, it is still baffling while they did it especially when it was clearly not working years ago. It isn't even they had to give up on their left-wing populism, but the way they did it though was completely unworkable. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Oct 19, 2016 |
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Oct 19, 2016 19:13
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Shoutout to the fine people at TeleSUR English for their debate livetweets: https://twitter.com/telesurenglish/status/788925423824564224
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Oct 20, 2016 03:19
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joepinetree posted:Cunha has just been arrested. It will be interesting to see if he will make a deal. Can any brazilian expand on this? Seems funny in a sad way.
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Oct 20, 2016 04:04
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Mr. Nemo posted:Can any brazilian expand on this? Seems funny in a sad way. Apparently the president is canceling his current foreign tour and hurrying his rear end back to Brazil. Considering how close they are, he's probably very concerned about what a scorned Cunha could do if arrested.
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Oct 20, 2016 04:10
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nerdz posted:Apparently the president is canceling his current foreign tour and hurrying his rear end back to Brazil. Considering how close they are, he's probably very concerned about what a scorned Cunha could do if arrested. And now this is back to being funny on a funny way. Kind of like the post brexit stuff that happened with the ones that supported it.
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Oct 20, 2016 04:28
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Badger of Basra posted:Shoutout to the fine people at TeleSUR English for their debate livetweets: TeleSUR loving sucks but that was kinda funny.
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Oct 20, 2016 04:36
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Also Vicente Fernandez wrote and recorded a corrido para Hillary.
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Oct 20, 2016 04:44
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Badger of Basra posted:Also Vicente Fernandez wrote and recorded a corrido para Hillary. "we have some bad hombres" was the best thing. This election is so loving insane. Señor Trump
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Oct 20, 2016 04:57
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Mr. Nemo posted:And now this is back to being funny on a funny way. Kind of like the post brexit stuff that happened with the ones that supported it. The best part is that he was in japan, one of the most geographically distant countries from Brazil, and it will take him over 36 hours to get back, arriving on the 21st. It's unlikely that we will get something good out of him by then, but that will probably mean more jail time for Cunha before Temer eventually gets him out.
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Oct 20, 2016 05:03
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Yeah, I dunno. I think Moro played his hand when he released the Lula tapes. I doubt he has anything that'll stick to Cunha, and this whole thing will be theatrics or, at best, result in a slap on the wrists. I am open to being pleasantly surprised, however.
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Oct 20, 2016 12:06
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Hopefully some Cubans decide to post here and give their opinions on Cuban Socialism. Wait no, they can't do that, now can they? Yeah, what a brilliant example of the people's liberation by socialism in action.
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Oct 20, 2016 12:21
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Lmao yeah sure man accessing the internet hellscape is sure a signal of progress.
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Oct 20, 2016 14:54
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Lmao yeah sure man accessing the internet hellscape is sure a signal of progress. Actually, it is. Accessing the Internet is a tremendous sign of progress. In fact, some have argued that Internet access has become almost a human right. Please don't dig yourself a deeper hole by defending the Castro tyranny.
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Oct 20, 2016 14:57
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60 year old Cuban tobacco farmer: You know, while having my cancer treated for free and all my children get their education on excellent state schools is nice, you onow what would be even better? If I spent 10 dollars to post on a gringo website.
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Oct 20, 2016 14:58
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:60 year old Cuban tobacco farmer: You know, while having my cancer treated for free and all my children get their education on excellent state schools is nice, you onow what would be even better? If I spent 10 dollars to post on a gringo website. Also, having free elections, free speech, democracy, and no arrest and torture of dissidents. Also, ask those really educated kids why they can't wait to get the gently caress out.
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Oct 20, 2016 15:00
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Speaking of people who should be deprived of their ability to post on this gay gringo website...
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Oct 20, 2016 15:08
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Non Serviam posted:Also, having free elections, free speech, democracy, and no arrest and torture of dissidents. Don't think socialism is the thing keeping Cuba from being as rich as the USA, champ.
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Oct 20, 2016 15:14
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Hell, I suppose it's good that we have all these people ready and able to defend the rights of Cubans not to post on this terrible website, or anywhere else either. Since you know, they can't be trusted to do that themselves. Hell, who knows what might happen if they were given that right. Maybe they might even disagree with their gringo champions. That would be rather embarrasing.
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Oct 20, 2016 15:21
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Friendly Humour posted:Hell, I suppose it's good that we have all these people ready and able to defend the rights of Cubans not to post on this terrible website, or anywhere else either. Since you know, they can't be trusted to do that themselves. Hell, who knows what might happen if they were given that right. Maybe they might even disagree with their gringo champions. That would be rather embarrasing. *embarrassing
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Oct 20, 2016 15:23
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Cuba is kinda fascinating to me, and I wish we could get more "moderate" perspectives on the country since it's arguably the only legit Communist place we have right now. From some stuff I got from people that went there, the country is pretty impoverished and information/supplies are very limited, but also that people tend to not be HORRENDOUSLY impoverished (less social inequity) and it's not North Korea-levels of repressive cult of personality (although there is political repression). Plus their public systems kinda work? Also Brazil just needs someone with enough balls to look into our public debt and reform our taxation system. However. We Cannot Defeat PMDB, and whatever passes as political discourse here is more akin to soccer cheerleading. I get people that work PUBLIC SERVICE JOBS and make 20k a year defending the PEC 241 and austerity measures because "it's PT's fault". No one seems to have any interest in actual reform, anyone upper-middle class thinks they're oil barons and get hives when you say "tax the rich", and there's a concerning amount of Libertarians popping up amongst youth nowadays. I blame Reddit. Actually, you know what, maybe having THE INTERNET isn't that good of a thing after all and Cuba was right all along.
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Oct 20, 2016 15:35
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Brainiac Five posted:Don't think socialism is the thing keeping Cuba from being as rich as the USA, champ. Living in a tyrannical undemocratic government under economic policies that have never worked? No, of course, that's not the root cause of the problem. Also, spellchecking your opponent just makes you sound pedantic. I hope that helps. Redrum and Coke fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Oct 20, 2016 |
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Oct 20, 2016 15:35
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Cuba has a combined bandwidth of 300mb/s. Somalia has more than 80 gb/s.
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Oct 20, 2016 15:42
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