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Watching Rules of Engagement, is this Vulcan admiral the worst judge ever?
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Oct 18, 2016 08:40
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nerdman42 posted:Worf is kind of a weirdo by Klingon standards. He's always so serious and controlled and acts like that's the Klingon way, but the Klingons are mostly arrogant, boastful party animals I am not sure there is a time in the series' history where the Klingon government isn't hilariously corrupt and WITHOUT HONOR though.
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Oct 18, 2016 09:22
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nerdman42 posted:Worf is kind of a weirdo by Klingon standards. He's always so serious and controlled and acts like that's the Klingon way, but the Klingons are mostly arrogant, boastful party animals  Worf is forever this meme guy, trying to fit into a culture that doesn't exist.
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Oct 18, 2016 13:41
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Please don't doxx me
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Oct 18, 2016 13:52
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Due to a labelling mishap Worf's Kobayashi Maru test at Starfleet Academy involved going to a barbecue with Rawhide.
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Oct 18, 2016 14:21
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MorgaineDax posted:
This is amazing. "Texas and Oklahoma dialects" I bet Worf's Klingon has a really bad accent, and there's a ton of slang he doesn't get or misuses. Why yes, my fellow warrior, I AM a son of a targ!
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Oct 18, 2016 15:06
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Pwnstar posted:Due to a labelling mishap Worf's Kobayashi Maru test at Starfleet Academy involved going to a barbecue with Rawhide. 
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Oct 18, 2016 15:49
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UnquietDream posted:Pogo has a new thing out, it may be of some interest Data & Picard Another proud graduate of the Lambert Wilson School of Weird Mouths, I hear he roomed with Cumberbatch
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Oct 18, 2016 16:09
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Zonko_T.M. posted:This is amazing. "Texas and Oklahoma dialects" Yeah, poor Worf doesn't even talk like the other Klingons. They're always hissing and growling and swearing and he just does his stiff, sonorous thing. They drink and slouch and backslap and shoot the poo poo while he's just standing there drinking his prune juice. He's like the uptight guy at the party who brings everyone else down, but for his entire species.
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Oct 18, 2016 19:14
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Duckbag posted:Yeah, poor Worf doesn't even talk like the other Klingons. They're always hissing and growling and swearing and he just does his stiff, sonorous thing. They drink and slouch and backslap and shoot the poo poo while he's just standing there drinking his prune juice. He's like the uptight guy at the party who brings everyone else down, but for his entire species. I also have to wonder if this isn't mostly a product of bad TNG writing. They couldn't figure out what Klingons were supposed to be like and before they realized it they made Worf, the Orthodox Klingon, totally unlike every other Klingon.
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Oct 18, 2016 20:58
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I would argue that Klingons in general weren't really finalized until midway through TNG. They're distinct from TOS Klingons and even Kruge in III doesn't quite act like what we recognize as Klingon after TNG.
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Oct 18, 2016 21:04
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I would argue that Klingons in general weren't really finalized until midway through TNG. They're distinct from TOS Klingons and even Kruge in III doesn't quite act like what we recognize as Klingon after TNG. Well, to be fair, in TOS the Klingons were basically Space Soviets, and in III they were originally written as Romulans.
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Oct 18, 2016 21:44
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I kinda hate TNG Klingons because they're mostly dumb as rocks and ludicrously one-note. Every TOS/movies Klingon was a little different, but their defining features were pride, cunning, and ruthlessness -- usually in that order. They make fantastic villains because there's a lot of old-school tragedy inherent in their personalities. The very same qualities that make them so formidable and dangerous also wind up being their undoing. Worf couldn't really be cunning or ruthless and a good guy at the same time (though they tried from time to time), so all that was really left was the pride, which was repurposed into this monomaniacal obsession with honor. I think valuing honor fits with who the Klingons are, but making it the cornerstone of their society always felt wrong to me. They also fell into the trap of making the Klingons be good guys (sort of), but still trying to use them as villains, which meant that their whole culture comes off as schizophrenic and tainted by a pretty serious show vs. tell discrepancy. All the TNG klingon villains are utterly un-Worflike (IE without honor), but they don't really have the qualities that made TOS Klingons compelling, either. The Duras aren't proud, they're treacherous cowards who are really just toadies for the Romulans. They aren't cunning because most of their plans are idiotic and short-sighted. And as for ruthlessness, they do a lot of bad poo poo, but it's mostly half-measures and manipulations. Meanwhile, the rest of the Klingons, who have supposedly grown since the TOS era, bend over backwards to accommodate this pack of selfish, dangerous idiots when they really don't need to. It's all just "wah wah their family is too powerful" and it's bullshit. Later on, they at least acknowledged that all this talk of honor was mostly just talk, but that's not really the part I have a problem with. Of course Klingon honor is just bullshit (to everyone but Worf), but if they're not honorable like Worf and they don't have the qualities that made TOS Klingons so formidable, what the hell do they have going for them? A love of battle? Except for during the civil war, the TNG Klingons didn't even have anyone to fight. What's the point of all this robes and swords metal album crap anyway? Do they just drink and listen to opera and have tournaments and hang out at weird cloning monasteries all day? Doesn't anyone in the "Empire" have a real loving job? Seriously, don't they do anything besides fight, party, and talk about Kahless? Is that why they murder each other at the drop of a hat -- because they're bored out of their skulls? The whole thing is just so shallow and trite and pointless and if it weren't for crazy-eyes Gowron and a couple other decent guest stars I'd be tempted to write off TNG Klingons entirely.
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Oct 18, 2016 22:09
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Duckbag posted:I kinda hate TNG Klingons because they're mostly dumb as rocks and ludicrously one-note. Every TOS/movies Klingon was a little different, but their defining features were pride, cunning, and ruthlessness -- usually in that order. They make fantastic villains because there's a lot of old-school tragedy inherent in their personalities. The very same qualities that make them so formidable and dangerous also wind up being their undoing. Worf couldn't really be cunning or ruthless and a good guy at the same time (though they tried from time to time), so all that was really left was the pride, which was repurposed into this monomaniacal obsession with honor. I think valuing honor fits with who the Klingons are, but making it the cornerstone of their society always felt wrong to me. They also fell into the trap of making the Klingons be good guys (sort of), but still trying to use them as villains, which meant that their whole culture comes off as schizophrenic and tainted by a pretty serious show vs. tell discrepancy. I think it would be cool if they expanded the "empire" idea by showing conquered, enslaved races doing all the honorless paper-pushing and science type jobs.
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Oct 18, 2016 22:33
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I think it would be cool if they expanded the "empire" idea by showing conquered, enslaved races doing all the honorless paper-pushing and science type jobs. Yeah for a race that's apparently always conquering all the time we never really see anyone they've conquered. I can understand them keeping everyone as oppressed tributaries that can't join the military. I could also see their society actually being a "warrior society" because a huge chunk of their species has to serve in the military to keep all their conquered population in order. Which makes it extra weird the federation would ally with an empire like that. But if they don't have an empire of conquered tributaries and vassals then they're pretty lovely warriors I guess.
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Oct 18, 2016 22:37
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If they ever do post-Voyager Trek, I would kind of love to see a new version of the Borg... take the idea of Locutus to an extreme, where they try to create a more personable face to the Collective... and now they sell people on the idea of assimilation instead of forcing it on people. What would the Federation do if people were willingly joining the Borg because of their new friendlier sales pitch? "Join the Collective! You will never be lonely again, and you get a free ocular implant!" Work as a drone by day, escape to Unimatrix Zero at night! It can't be much worse than working a 9-5! They're supposed to be able to adapt to anything... I think this would be a sensible adaptation after all of their encounters with humans. They take a page out of the Federation's playbook, basically. thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Oct 18, 2016 |
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Oct 18, 2016 23:29
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thexerox123 posted:If they ever do post-Voyager Trek, I would kind of love to see a new version of the Borg... take the idea of Locutus to an extreme, where they try to create a more personable face to the Collective... and now they sell people on the idea of assimilation instead of forcing it on people. What would the Federation do if people were willingly joining the Borg because of their new friendlier sales pitch? http://angryflower.com/349.html
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Oct 18, 2016 23:33
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Ha, exactly!
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Oct 18, 2016 23:35
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Duckbag posted:Of course Klingon honor is just bullshit (to everyone but Worf), but if they're not honorable like Worf and they don't have the qualities that made TOS Klingons so formidable, what the hell do they have going for them? A love of battle? Except for during the civil war, the TNG Klingons didn't even have anyone to fight. What's the point of all this robes and swords metal album crap anyway? Do they just drink and listen to opera and have tournaments and hang out at weird cloning monasteries all day? Doesn't anyone in the "Empire" have a real loving job? Seriously, don't they do anything besides fight, party, and talk about Kahless? Is that why they murder each other at the drop of a hat -- because they're bored out of their skulls? Most of the Klingons we get to see and deal with are the elite of the elite of the elite. Basically Downton Abbey. Plus this: Baronjutter posted:I could also see their society actually being a "warrior society" because a huge chunk of their species has to serve in the military to keep all their conquered population in order. Which would make them literally Spartans. In conclusion, Downton Abbey + Sparta + Space = Klingons
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Oct 19, 2016 01:12
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thexerox123 posted:If they ever do post-Voyager Trek, I would kind of love to see a new version of the Borg... take the idea of Locutus to an extreme, where they try to create a more personable face to the Collective... and now they sell people on the idea of assimilation instead of forcing it on people. What would the Federation do if people were willingly joining the Borg because of their new friendlier sales pitch? That could actually bring scary back to the Borg.
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Oct 19, 2016 01:13
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The Borg as the Cult of Thulsa Doom.
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Oct 19, 2016 01:26
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When the Borg were first introduced all they gave a poo poo about was tech and assimilated Picard for the sake of communication(+getting his knowledge about the Federation and poo poo, I guess). The switch to converting organic life made them a lot dumber.
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Oct 19, 2016 01:37
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They became space zombies led by a zombie queen, it's poo poo.
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Oct 19, 2016 01:38
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Hugh made them space retards its canon.
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Oct 19, 2016 01:40
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So what do you guys think of the new "fast" Borg
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Oct 19, 2016 01:53
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Baronjutter posted:They became space zombies led by a zombie queen, it's poo poo. One episode of blowing up queens, one episode of the borg thanking starfleet for freeing them from slavery, no more borg episodes.
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Oct 19, 2016 02:26
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I think the Borg got better with every development. The pasty seizure-prone model-kit-gone-overboard look was pretty lame compared to what we got later.
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Oct 19, 2016 02:54
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I could have standed to see them go a little more body horror space zombie, like the organic components were juuuust barely alive still. You could have a mix of freshly assimilated and then some are almost walking cadavers riddled with tech.
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Oct 19, 2016 06:49
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Yeah, I think a lot these issues come from Trek being very much a writer's show. They've had great effects teams and the people writing it knew enough to use them, but the show is also pretty famous for being something you can basically follow with your eyes closed. Voyager tried to get less stagey and make the action and visual effects more prominent, but they still never really got a handle on visual storytelling. No one ever shuts up in Star Trek and half of what they're saying could be readily inferred from just what we're seeing on screen. Take the scene in Q Who where they find the borg baby. The image is creepy enough on its own and having the characters discuss what they're seeing at length actually lessens the effect. It's sort of like those old marvel comics where Kirby or Ditko or whoever are basically telling the story through their art, but Stan Lee still crowds every panel with word balloons and narrative boxes telling us what we can already see. Maybe it helps kids and inattentive adults follow along a little better, but it also makes it feel less important to pay attention in the first place. I think a lot of the problems come from having this rotating roster of directors, half of whom were serviceable at best. If you can never totally rely on your vision making it to the screen intact, then you have start building redundancy into the dialog, because at least then people can still follow the story. Exposition quickly becomes a crutch, however, and in many, many episodes it feels like the actual images on screen were something of an afterthought. Many of the forehead aliens, for instance, seem to have been written without anyone involved knowing what their makeup would look like. If the borg had started out in a movie, where directors call the shots, I think they would have had a bit more visual flair to start with. They did become much more dynamic looking in First Contact (budgets help), but, by then, their basic look was pretty well established. The same thing goes for Klingons, who, I still contend, never looked better or more alien then that one scene in TMP. The whole thing has no (english) dialog at all, but it's still easily the best part of the movie. It doesn't even really need subtitles, you can just see what's happening on screen. Too bad the rest of the movie had to have so much blather.
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Oct 19, 2016 07:39
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thexerox123 posted:"Join the Collective! You will never be lonely again, and you get a free ocular implant!" Aggressive Hegemonising Swarm Objects are so passé. They assimilated someone who'd read the Culture novels and were instantly converted into an Evangelical Hegemonising Swarm.
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Oct 19, 2016 08:42
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Duckbag posted:If the borg had started out in a movie, where directors call the shots, I think they would have had a bit more visual flair to start with. They did become much more dynamic looking in First Contact (budgets help), but, by then, their basic look was pretty well established. I remember reading that had they the budget, the Borg were supposed to be an insectoid race and the inside of their ships were supposed to basically be big beehives.
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Oct 19, 2016 08:43
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Free occular implant is nice, and all. But it's no giant whirring claw. Or robot diaper.
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Oct 19, 2016 08:44
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I'm not signing anything until I'm guaranteed a holographic Pog eye.
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Oct 19, 2016 08:51
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I'm not signing anything until I'm guaranteed a holographic Pog eye. The Collective had the best slammers. Made of the finest duranium.
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Oct 19, 2016 09:07
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Gonz posted:Free occular implant is nice, and all. But it's no giant whirring claw. Or robot diaper. Where do I put my cyber shits?
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Oct 19, 2016 15:43
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Cojawfee posted:Where do I put my cyber shits? Something Awful
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Oct 19, 2016 16:11
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Cojawfee posted:Where do I put my cyber shits? skasion posted:Something Awful 
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Oct 19, 2016 22:07
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thexerox123 posted:If they ever do post-Voyager Trek, I would kind of love to see a new version of the Borg... take the idea of Locutus to an extreme, where they try to create a more personable face to the Collective... and now they sell people on the idea of assimilation instead of forcing it on people. What would the Federation do if people were willingly joining the Borg because of their new friendlier sales pitch? But people in the Federation don't work 9-5s.  Also "can't be much worse" isn't exactly a hot selling point.I mean, the basic premise you're presenting is "what if a big spacefaring civilization rolled up one day and said 'hey free citizenship for anyone who wants to come along!'" so I guess the question is what would make the Borg doing this particularly scarier than if it were, say, a bunch of random not-cyborgs who just happened to like tooling around on a giant spaceship all year long? Should the Federation be so afraid of brain drain that they would implement Soviet-style emigration control?
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Oct 19, 2016 23:17
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:But people in the Federation don't work 9-5s. The Federation is more than just Earth. And anyways, even if there isn't money, people still clearly have professions and schedules on Earth. Even in Starfleet, we see Barclay working on the Pathfinder project, and going home to his apartment. And people outside of Starfleet working as professors, scientists, farmers, chefs, geo-engineers... are you suggesting they don't have work/life balance because they don't work for currency? And what would make the Borg scarier for doing it is that they used to be the Federation's implacable enemies. Hell, the enemies of every sentient, advanced species. thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Oct 19, 2016 |
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Oct 19, 2016 23:24
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I'm suggesting that most Federation citizens would probably see 40 hours of work a week as being an unusually long work schedule.
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Oct 19, 2016 23:31
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