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So are you reading JJ Abrams and George Lucas's minds at this point.
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Oct 19, 2016 16:49
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euphronius posted:Why are aliens speaking what sounds like creole racist to you. I am not accusing Gungans of being stereotypes Ive always focused on Jar Jar because he speaks and acts as a old form of racist media once did
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Oct 19, 2016 16:49
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sponges posted:Best choosing that awful voice doesn't make it less racist. Any director with an ounce on common sense would have rejected that poo poo out of hand. Half the characters in TPM have these loving outdated racial stereotypes. It's like It was made in the '50s. If none of this bothers you that's fine. You're free to enjoy it but it's a problematic movie. People evidently don't understand what racism even is. Racism is an ideology. If you are not engaged in ideological critique, you are appropriating antiracism and using its terminology for purposes that have nothing to do with socioeconomic justice. There is nothing 'problematic' about a person having an accent or speaking a different language. Egalitarianism does mean that people should all talk the same. To be very clear: you are not engaged in any sort of antiracism. You are writing in terms of multicultural tolerance, declaring Jar Jar 'intolerable' because of his voice. Best's voice is "awful", and it is evidently "awful" because it threatens your narrative of progress away from the 1950s. The irony here is that this specific fixation on the 1950s, the narrative of the 50's as a 'dark age' before revolutionary spirit of the 60's led us to neoliberalism, the deconstruction of 'Leave It To Beaver' - this is painfully 1990s. This is Clinton-Era stuff. This is 'end of history' stuff. You're at least 20 years out of date. Your language is the language of identity politics, and (in this context) that means the conflation of 'strong characterization' with literal physical strength and purity. You know the people who can't stop talking about Ellen Ripley as the model minority. You can't have a clumsy character. Minority characters have to be inspirational at all times. FN's only negative trait is that he has low self-esteem. You know, he's recovering from trauma and he doesn't yet realize how strong he is - how good he is at killing drones. He's got the Ellen Ripley arc. From 1986.
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Oct 19, 2016 16:49
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ruddiger posted:FINN BEING A CHILD SOLDIER IS NOT A PROJECTION, IT'S A FACT STATED IN THE MOVIE. Was Finn the character written to be black? Or did a black actor get the role and youre projecting these racist assumptions based on the race of the actor?
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Oct 19, 2016 16:50
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All of the gungans speak the same way.
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Oct 19, 2016 16:50
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Finn can't be black, Africa doesn't even exist in Star Wars!
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Oct 19, 2016 16:50
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Phi230 posted:Was Finn the character written to be black? Or did a black actor get the role and youre projecting these racist assumptions based on the race of the actor? I genuinely don't think you get it. Literally, on screen Finn is both of these things - A child soldier - Black That's on the screen.
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Oct 19, 2016 16:52
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Its really telling that the only person defending the preqs effectively is SMG whereas everyone else is devolving into old defenses of racism, projection, and strawmen. Like suddenly yall became angry middleschoolers at the thought your precious movies are racially problematic
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Oct 19, 2016 16:54
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Phi230 posted:Its really telling that the only person defending the preqs effectively is SMG whereas everyone else is devolving into old defenses of racism, projection, and strawmen. Like suddenly yall became angry middleschoolers at the thought your precious movies are racially problematic https://twitter.com/dril/status/134787490526658561
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Oct 19, 2016 16:55
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If we're talking about problematic racial stereotypes in TFA, I'd say that Lupita Nyong'o playing a magical Negro character is much more of an issue than anything done with Finn. sponges posted:Jango is introduced and killed in one movie. I'm not sure he's ever mentioned again.
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Oct 19, 2016 16:55
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Nice . Full circle.
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Oct 19, 2016 16:55
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Waffles Inc. posted:I genuinely don't think you get it. Literally, on screen Finn is both of these things WAS THE CHARACTER FINN INTENDED TO BE BLACK There spelled out nice and slow in big letters. SMG is correct in basically saying racism requires intent. If Finn was intended to be a black child soldier then yes its a problem. In all likelihoods, every single character in TFA was written to be race neutral.
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Oct 19, 2016 16:56
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Oct 19, 2016 16:56
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Phi230 posted:Was Finn the character written to be black? Or did a black actor get the role and youre projecting these racist assumptions based on the race of the actor? You are employing the 'I don't see race' argument. Colourblind casting. Interchangeable with white. Phi230 posted:SMG is correct in basically saying racism requires intent. That is the opposite of what I have written. You do not understand the concepts you are writing about. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Oct 19, 2016 |
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Oct 19, 2016 16:56
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yeah tezzor is basically this Person: Finn is a child soldier Tezzor: But what if...he wasn't? Person: ... Tezzor: Y'all mad lol Phi230 posted:WAS THE CHARACTER FINN INTENDED TO BE BLACK So intent is required for something to be racist?
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Oct 19, 2016 16:57
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Phi230 posted:Was Finn the character written to be black? Or did a black actor get the role and youre projecting these racist assumptions based on the race of the actor? 1. not all child soldiers are black you ignorant loving american. There are child soldiers in asia, south america, hell, even here in the states. They don't call Chicago Chiraq for nothing, I have friends and family legitimately going through PTSD because of the violence that they experience daily back home. 2. Why are you ignoring any implications that the role could bring, yet so laser focused on Jar Jar, who you flip flop on being "a direct racist stereotype" while also saying he "does not speak with any specific dialect". Again, I'm not the one trying to say racism and stereotypes don't exist in TFA, you are. And Jar Jar can still evoke discussions about race and acceptance of those who speak differently, as opposed to Finn, who's basically the Forrest Gump of the Star Wars Universe. Just be a good little servant to the machine, and everything will come out okay for you (just ignore that you had to leave all your childhood friends for dead, and never suffer from PTSD despite living a life conditioned towards violence from a very young age).
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Oct 19, 2016 16:57
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Where did I ever argue the fact that Finn wasnt a child soldier?
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Oct 19, 2016 16:58
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ruddiger posted:1. not all child soldiers are black you ignorant loving american. There are child soldiers in asia, south america, hell, even here in the states. They don't call Chicago Chiraq for nothing, I have friends and family legitimately going through PTSD because of the violence that they experience daily back home. Your 1. Literally proves my point. You are seeing the race of the actor and projecting racial stereotypes based on the race neutral role he occupies. Lol @ your selective reading of my posts
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Oct 19, 2016 16:59
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Phi230 posted:Where did I ever argue the fact that Finn wasnt a child soldier? So you're not saying he's not a child soldier you're saying he's just not drawing upon the "african child soldier" stereotype?
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Oct 19, 2016 17:00
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Waffles Inc. posted:So you're not saying he's not a child soldier you're saying he's just not drawing upon the "african child soldier" stereotype? Precisely. People here are saying Finn is a problematic stereotype because the actor is black. Projection.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:01
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Compare and contrast Jar Jar with, say, Skids and Mudflap from the Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen film and you'll perhaps begin to see a difference. Jar Jar isn't coded as a specific minority. He speaks in an "alien" patois, is a bit clumsy, and, being generous, his head flaps superficially resemble dreadlocks. If he is meant to be a caricature of a specific minority group, it is only on the level of The Other, and the narrative of Phantom Menace explicitly goes out of its way to prove that he is a valuable and important member of the group. It is a message of inclusion, especially the story arc of Obi-Wan learning to appreciate him as much as Qui-Gonn does from the start. Skids and Mudflap are presented as explicitly less capable than their companions, are constantly violent (especially towards one another), are illiterate, and speak in exaggerated AAVE by the guy who also voiced Spongebob. Hell, the fact that they initially transform into an ice cream truck is just icing on the racist cake. They have no redeeming qualities, serve as comic relief, and, narratively, they are rewarded for their bickering when Bumblebee tosses them out of the ruins, only to discover that the collateral damage from their fight had revealed the Tomb of the Primes.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:01
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Phi230 posted:WAS THE CHARACTER FINN INTENDED TO BE BLACK Was Jar Jar intended to be black? Was Mace Windu intended to be black? It should be noted that Lando was sure as gently caress decidedly a black character, and given absolutely no racial overtones (unless wearing purple and a cape is a "black thing").
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Oct 19, 2016 17:02
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Phi230 posted:Precisely. People here are saying Finn is a problematic stereotype because the actor is black. Projection. You're not a big fan of Barthes i guess huh
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Oct 19, 2016 17:03
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ruddiger posted:Was Jar Jar intended to be black? He was intended to be a fuckin offensive racial caricature thats for sure.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:03
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Phi230 posted:He was intended to be a fuckin offensive racial caricature thats for sure. Now who's projecting. Keep in mind this is a person of color telling you this.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:05
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Phi230 posted:He was intended to be a fuckin offensive racial caricature thats for sure. show your work and what I mean by that is: support that thesis with evidence the evidence you would require to support the thesis of "finn was intended to be a black child soldier" would be something showing that the part was written for a black actor specifically in this instance, your thesis requires showing proof that jar jar binks was intentionally written to be a "fuckin offensive racial caricature", and your inclusion of "that's for sure" demonstrates an even bigger burden, even beyond the benefit of a doubt
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Oct 19, 2016 17:05
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ruddiger posted:Now who's projecting. Look at this guy he thinks minstrel shows are inoffensive
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Oct 19, 2016 17:06
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Regardless of whether they wrote the character to be black initially, they cast the child soldier as a black man, instead of casting him as the gearhead or the dashing space pilot. So, what does it mean that a character is a child soldier? What does it reveal? Why did they make a character a child soldier? What does it say about Kylo Ren as a character that he's cool with child soldiers? What does it say that all the other child soldiers show no signs of independence?
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Oct 19, 2016 17:06
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Phi230 posted:Look at this guy he thinks minstrel shows are inoffensive I don't find people speaking in accents offensive. I do find it offensive when people call others who speak in accents "minstrels" though. Your Cartman schtick is getting played out. Actually, it's been played out for the past 20 years.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:09
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Waffles Inc. posted:show your work I believe the evidence can be found in: Commentary tracks where Lucas describes jar jar as a klutz (trait of a minstrel show) B roll where we see Lucas directing Ahmed to act the way Jar Jar does The instruction by Lucas to have jar jar speak as a minstrel would in a minstrel show And Lucas writing Jar Jar as the way he is All contribute to the racist intent
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Oct 19, 2016 17:09
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Phi230 posted:He was intended to be a fuckin offensive racial caricature thats for sure. You are not sure of this. You are exploiting the language of antiracism as a means to insult Star Wars, instead of appropriating Star Wars as a means to illustrate antiracist concepts. Ask yourself why that is your priority.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:09
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Phi230 posted:I believe the evidence can be found in: Do you believe that for a director to direct for and thereby create a racist character that they themselves have to be a racist?
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Oct 19, 2016 17:10
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Toph Bei Fong posted:Compare and contrast Jar Jar with, say, Skids and Mudflap from the Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen film and you'll perhaps begin to see a difference. I think this is a helpful comparison. The presence of a racial stereotype in a film isn't automatically problematic, you have to look deeper at the film and figure out the purpose of the stereotype. Is he there just for laughs? Is he there just to use as a contrast to white protagonists? Or is a stereotype being used as an attempt to deliver some sort of message about prejudice and racial inequality? The why matters. Jar Jar has to be annoying and seemingly incompetent(really he's just physically clumsy) so that the myopic protagonists initially disregard him. Later on, they learn his value and he is celebrated at the end and we later find out that he is given a coveted position of power in the Senate. Its, as you say, a message of inclusion.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:10
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ruddiger posted:I don't find people speaking in accents offensive. I do find people calling people who speak in accents "minstrels" though. Where have I ever cited speaking in an accent as offensive? I pointed specific examples and YOU, in your mind, came up with that bullshit.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:10
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Phi230 posted:I believe the evidence can be found in: Either post links to show George telling Ahmed to friend of the family it up or stop posting your fan fiction please, thanks. E: and yes, your constant use of the words "minstrel" and sambo" may as well be you posting the N word over and over again. Just because you're using coded language, doesn't mean we don't see through you.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:11
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ruddiger posted:Now who's projecting. Keep in mind this is a person of color telling you this. Jesus Christ dude we get it now please show us who said you were a minstrel or whatever the gently caress you claimed.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:12
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You are not sure of this. Because racism is bad and the profound lack of diversity up to this point, as well as the terrible racial caricatures in the prequels, speak to Star Wars as ultimately work marred by racism
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Oct 19, 2016 17:13
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ruddiger posted:Either post links to show George telling Ahmed to friend of the family it up or stop posting your fan fiction please, thanks. Im not the one defending a loving racist you rear end in a top hat Firstly minstrel and sambo arent even coded words. Secondly I use those words because Jar Jar evokes those racist images because jar jar the character IS one of those racist images.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:13
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rear end Catchcum posted:Jesus Christ dude we get it now please show us who said you were a minstrel or whatever the gently caress you claimed. Why are you so afraid of being confronted with the truth?
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Oct 19, 2016 17:14
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Why do you refuse to back up your claims?
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Oct 19, 2016 17:14
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