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Keep in mind that he accused STEP of being "the marketing arm of MO." Literally everything this guy says has to be taken with a loving spoonful of salt.
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Oct 18, 2016 14:08
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Yeah, I know Arthmoor can be paranoid and kooky. Statements along the lines of a virtual file system somehow degrading aren't wacky opinions, though. Somewhere along the line he had to back that up by describing how Skyrim accessing it causes blocks to become corrupt, or he had to deflect with an "uncle who works at Nintendo" defense, or maybe nobody challenged him because there's no point. It's probably the last one. I'm just curious if anyone knows.
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Oct 18, 2016 14:25
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Raygereio posted:Simply using a variable from another as a condition in a recipe is easy. It's something you do in a matter of seconds in xEdit if you have all the necessary FormIDs at hand. I'm a big fan of Frostfall, and if it hasn't been done already, I'd like to write up a quick mod that allows the player to add "liners" to their clothing/robes/armor. Basically a combination of felt, leather, and ties that gives the item additional Warmth (that's the value I'd need from Frostfall). From a design standpoint, it'd be made on a tanning rack and added via workbench. I think I'd make this mutually exclusive with armor upgrades - you can have extra protection from bad folks, or extra protection from the cruel and unfeeling hand of the Skyrim wilderness.
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Oct 18, 2016 14:39
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Herrvillain posted:Yeah, I know Arthmoor can be paranoid and kooky. Statements along the lines of a virtual file system somehow degrading aren't wacky opinions, though. Somewhere along the line he had to back that up by describing how Skyrim accessing it causes blocks to become corrupt, or he had to deflect with an "uncle who works at Nintendo" defense, or maybe nobody challenged him because there's no point. It's probably the last one. I'm just curious if anyone knows. Ah, I see. Well, every crazy thing he says may have a grain of truth. For example, it is true that STEP favors MO over other mod managers, and they phased out WB support in favor of it. The crazy comes in by assuming they did this for any other reason than genuinely thinking that it's superior. This is because Arthmoor seems to have a hard time with the idea of people disagreeing with him in good faith. So for VFS, I'm going to guess that he got a complaint about his mod that might not have been related to a problem with his mod but was related in some vague way to a "missing file." A mutual failure of communication (misunderstanding on the user's part, hostile suspicion by default on arthmoor's part) led to the conclusion that it was MO's fault. This is just a guess though.
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Oct 18, 2016 14:52
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BlueInkAlchemist posted:I'm a big fan of Frostfall, and if it hasn't been done already, I'd like to write up a quick mod that allows the player to add "liners" to their clothing/robes/armor. Basically a combination of felt, leather, and ties that gives the item additional Warmth (that's the value I'd need from Frostfall). From a design standpoint, it'd be made on a tanning rack and added via workbench. I think I'd make this mutually exclusive with armor upgrades - you can have extra protection from bad folks, or extra protection from the cruel and unfeeling hand of the Skyrim wilderness. I am prrrreetty sure the all of Chesko's major mods have "modder's resource" stuff for exactly this purpose because he is big on accommodating interoperability between his stuff and others'. Although it might be located in Campfire rather than Frostfall.
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Oct 18, 2016 14:54
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how anyone plays frostfall for more than an hour amazes me it's a tedious minigame that puts a lot of strain on your game and adds a lot of crap you will never use. MAYBE if you're going full on realistic needs/diseases and want that added challenge, but Hypothermia does the same thing except doesn't add 10000 wool blanket scraps to lug around. e: chesko fight me irl
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Oct 18, 2016 15:00
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Herrvillain posted:But I don't recall that it magically tracks conflicting loose files, and fixes the data directory if you ever uninstall the last mod that wrote a particular file Thing is: MO's method of handling this sort of thing is way better as it gives the user more control over the whole process and doesn't make you dependant on the mod author having set up a BAIN installer correctly. Herrvillain posted:Yeah, I know Arthmoor can be paranoid and kooky. Statements along the lines of a virtual file system somehow degrading aren't wacky opinions, though. Somewhere along the line he had to back that up by describing how Skyrim accessing it causes blocks to become corrupt, or he had to deflect with an "uncle who works at Nintendo" defense, or maybe nobody challenged him because there's no point. It's probably the last one. I'm just curious if anyone knows. GunnerJ posted:So for VFS, I'm going to guess that he got a complaint about his mod that might not have been related to a problem with his mod but was related in some vague way to a "missing file." A mutual failure of communication (misunderstanding on the user's part, hostile suspicion by default on arthmoor's part) led to the conclusion that it was MO's fault. This is just a guess though. But when you have MO unpack the contents of a BSA, the resulting loose files' file priority is going to be determined by MO's installation order and no longer by the plugin loadorder. I've seen a lot of people not realize that they have to pay attention to the installation order and this can cause issue. For example a lot of people had a problem where dragons don't give souls and blamed it on the unofficial patches, when in reality they messed their file priority (or were using an incompatible mod, but generally it was a file priority problem). In the interest of being fair: It is frustrating when people come to you with problems and bugs that are completely outside of your control. When the dev of xEdit sighs and wishes people would stop pestering him about how to use xEdit with MO because he doesn't use MO and so doesn't know, I totally understand him. Arthmoor on the other hand had a hateboner for MO from the moment Tannin released the first version. And it has become very apparent the guy has no idea what a virtual file system is or how it works. I honestly think it just boils down Arthmoor not wanting to admit he's wrong. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Oct 18, 2016 |
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Oct 18, 2016 15:05
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BlueInkAlchemist posted:I'm a big fan of Frostfall, and if it hasn't been done already, I'd like to write up a quick mod that allows the player to add "liners" to their clothing/robes/armor. Basically a combination of felt, leather, and ties that gives the item additional Warmth (that's the value I'd need from Frostfall). From a design standpoint, it'd be made on a tanning rack and added via workbench. I think I'd make this mutually exclusive with armor upgrades - you can have extra protection from bad folks, or extra protection from the cruel and unfeeling hand of the Skyrim wilderness. I came across this in Frostfall's readme: "Armor from mods is granted Standard exposure protection by default if the user is using the W.E.A.R. system. The user can then change the Exposure Protection value themselves using Survival Skills, Inspect Equipment. No direct support is needed." You could try digging in Frostfall and see how that "Inspect Equipment" does its thing. You could also try PMing Chesko on the Nexus with your idea and ask him where to start. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. I don't use Frostfall, so I don't know how it works. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Oct 18, 2016 |
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Oct 18, 2016 15:23
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Raygereio posted:But when you have MO unpack the contents of a BSA, the resulting loose files' file priority is going to be determined by MO's installation order and no longer by the plugin loadorder. I'm not disagreeing with you but isn't it priority order, which is by default installation order but not fixed as such? because MO makes it real easy to see when a file is overwriting another one and I've been troubleshooting that forever by dragging and dropping in my priority list I basically just want to make sure I have it right
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Oct 18, 2016 16:17
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MO also has a thing that attempts to fix the mod order so it matches load order. It pops up whenever you sort out the load order I think? I can see being annoyed when users complain about problems caused by this, but the takeaway isn't that the way MO does things is bad, just that it's complex and you should really understand how to use it before you use it. No one ever claimed that it was the easiest thing to learn.
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Oct 18, 2016 16:52
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Psion posted:I'm not disagreeing with you but isn't it priority order, which is by default installation order but not fixed as such? because MO makes it real easy to see when a file is overwriting another one and I've been troubleshooting that forever by dragging and dropping in my priority list Normally the order in BSAs are loaded is the same as the corresponding plugins' loadorder. In MO you can have plugin 1 load after plugin 2. But have BSA 2 load after BSA 1. Which like I said, can cause problems if you're not aware that's happening and when files from one mod's BSA are meant to overwrite those from another. That is, I was still on WinXP until a month ago. So I was using an older version of MO. Maybe Tannin overhauled some of that behaviour?
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Oct 18, 2016 17:20
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I wouldn't know, I still use MO 1.2x because 1.3 refuses to launch on my system. As far as I know I have all the prerequisites but it just silently fails to launch every time. Since 1.2 isn't broken, no need to fix it 
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Oct 18, 2016 17:26
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:how anyone plays frostfall for more than an hour amazes me Frostfall was fun for about 5 minutes. I also got the Alternate Start mod and chose the wrecked ship on the northern coast. You start naked on ice cold water, about 100m away from the ice cold shore. I got to Dawnstar after freezing to death 4 times and decided to never adventure again.
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Oct 18, 2016 17:50
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I love Frostfall but I can recognize that it is not for everyone. It adds a bunch of stuff that might not be your idea of a good time. But what I like about it is that it makes Skyrim being a cold place really matter, even if in practice it just means thinking about starting a fire just to keep warm or wrapping yourself up in a cloak. That little addition to my thought process as a player is "immersive" to me, at least.
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Oct 18, 2016 17:57
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Raygereio posted:WryeBash actually does have this feature. If you have mod A, install mod B that overwrites a file X from mod A. And then uninstal mod B, Wrye Bash can restore the mod A version of file X. It's called Anneal and requires that you installed all your mods via BAIN installers. Relies on manifests included in the BAIN packages, I take it? Seems like this is kind of poorly documented, aside from telling you what it's meant to do in the Wrye Bash readme. I went looking for how it works, how the installers are structured, or what BAIN even actually stands for, and eventually found a bug report on Git Hub where Arthmoor was complaining that Auto-Anneal doesn't function in WB as of 2014. A fix was made in May of this year that may get it working again, but nobody in the thread has confirmed. All of which is sort of funny in a way. Edit: I had guessed Bash Installer, and it looks like that's what it is. Yeah, MO's solution is better. Works for everything and doesn't require everyone use a particular format that had to be invented, at least in part, just to solve the issue. Herrvillain fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Oct 18, 2016 |
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Oct 18, 2016 19:56
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So I should check out Hypothermia Plus for colder areas to be more challenging? Kinda going for a Skyrim version of ARK: Survival Evolved, but don't want to make it too tedious. Jackard fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Oct 18, 2016 |
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Oct 18, 2016 20:33
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Herrvillain posted:Relies on manifests included in the BAIN packages, I take it? This is not quite correct. Wrye Bash doesn't need BAIN manifests or specially built archives, it just inspects the contents of a mod archive and as long as the archive is organized properly to drop into the data folder it catalogs the files and works out any conflicts. It does this by building a table that lists all of the files installed in the game folder every time you start Bash, so on a large install it can take several minutes for all the files to be catalogued and conflicts identified, etc. This is where Wrye Bash starts to break down, especially when you are trying different graphic packs. The time it takes to add and remove loose files, and pluck individual files from an archive etc really builds up. I still use Wrye Bash for my Oblivion install (since MO has major problems with Oblivion), but switched to MO for Skyrim and never looked back. Incidentally you can cut down on the time it takes by packing your files in BSA's. So now you know why Arthmoor loves them so much. They cut down on his precious Wrye Bash's loading times.
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Oct 18, 2016 21:08
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That makes more sense. From my earlier reading on GitHub it sounds like it would CRC all the drat files and search for them by name and CRC in every installed archive Bash is aware of, or check each archived file to see if it's in the game folder. (Arthmoor briefly remarked that a change in CRC should have affected the Anneal feature, anyway.) I can see how that could get to be a horrible drag, regardless of the direction it's approached from. I used Bash for Oblivion too, but I pretty much installed mods according to one mega-pack/guide, played through it once, and never touched it again.
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Oct 19, 2016 01:49
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Arthmoor is a talented modder. He has a toxic personality. Basically a virtual file system is the devil, and you should always install mods manually or use Wyre. Make sure you actually put them in the Data folder! Never ever extract your .bsa files. You'll break things. Do you know how many times Arthmoor had to do tech support for someone who installed his files and extracted the .bsa file manually? Probably once, when he did it himself as he's against Mod Organizer and think any mod manager is upsetting his vision. At least he doesn't go "Steam Workshop only".
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Oct 19, 2016 04:18
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Source your quotes.
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Oct 19, 2016 04:43
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Agents are GO! posted:Source your quotes. Speculation because of the way he seems to be toxic against Mod Organizer and extracting .bsa files.
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Oct 19, 2016 06:39
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Someone on reddit compiled info about SSE & mods.quote:Note that most of the following has now been confirmed by either a Bethesda employee or by mod authors that are in the beta. SSE is really an upgrade for consoles; very little information has been released on what it means for PC players, and we won't get the full picture until release (really a few days after release, as it will take time for the community to process information and discuss what it means for us). But we now have a pretty good idea of what's going to happen thanks to the beta and some anonymous sources who have come forth with this information. The bit about Scaleform is some good news since the main guy behind SkyUI already said he wasn't interested in updating SkyUI for SkyrimSE. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Oct 19, 2016 |
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Oct 19, 2016 13:04
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Jesus, everything related to HDT physics just got rekt.
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Oct 19, 2016 13:09
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GunnerJ posted:Jesus, everything related to HDT physics just got rekt. oh noes my waifu's boobs wont bounce anymore what will we do the horror the horror
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Oct 19, 2016 15:03
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Cat Mattress posted:oh noes my waifu's boobs wont bounce anymore what will we do the horror the horror I was honestly pretty impressed by the cloak flowing (fluttering?) and equipment jostling animations, which I guess made very slow progress because boob physics were a higher priority. 
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Oct 19, 2016 15:14
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The horse physics are pretty good too.
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Oct 19, 2016 15:22
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GunnerJ posted:I was honestly pretty impressed by the cloak flowing (fluttering?) and equipment jostling animations, which I guess made very slow progress because boob physics were a higher priority. Progress was slow for HDT all around because it was like one Chinese guy making it, but clothing physics was the first thing he showed HDT off with. Made a poofy concept dress for it.
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Oct 19, 2016 15:29
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In this instance I'm quite glad waifu boobs are a thing because that wilk drive development of the new physics that need to be redone. I'm not even joking either.
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Oct 19, 2016 16:11
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The uncomfortable fact is that some of the most daring innovations in Skyrim modding as well as obscure and useful discoveries seem to be driven by the desire to turn it into a virtual sex playground for 'slab posters' perversions.
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Oct 19, 2016 16:15
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This applies to technology advancement in general tbh
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Oct 19, 2016 16:16
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Is there any explanation for FPS drops when your CPU and GPU aren't being taxed? If I run the game with the HD texture DLC and an ENB I net 55~ FPS when looking at Riverwood from the bridge, but I'm only getting something like 30% GPU usage. If I install more 2K texture packs, with parallax, I've hit 66% GPU and 51% CPU usage, but I'm getting 40~ FPS while looking at Riverwood. My VRAM isn't going beyond 2300 MB, and I'm using ENBoost and the SKSE memory patch. I don't really get why the game is lagging, or why installing 2K texture packs over preexisting 2K textures is reducing performance.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:01
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turn off the TV posted:Is there any explanation for FPS drops when your CPU and GPU aren't being taxed? If I run the game with the HD texture DLC and an ENB I net 55~ FPS when looking at Riverwood from the bridge, but I'm only getting something like 30% GPU usage. If I install more 2K texture packs, with parallax, I've hit 66% GPU and 51% CPU usage, but I'm getting 40~ FPS while looking at Riverwood. My VRAM isn't going beyond 2300 MB, and I'm using ENBoost and the SKSE memory patch. I don't really get why the game is lagging, or why installing 2K texture packs over preexisting 2K textures is reducing performance.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:14
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This whole upgrade thing sounds like a huge pain in the rear end, better be worth it.
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Oct 19, 2016 19:45
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I don't know where else to post this so bear with me. I bought Skyrim back in the day, but never had time to really dig into it. I'm looking forward to the updated version. I want to play an archer, is there a good guide for how to not suck at it in the early game?
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Oct 19, 2016 20:24
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IMB posted:I don't know where else to post this so bear with me. Here's what you need to know about being an archer in skyrim. 
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Oct 19, 2016 21:05
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Davoren posted:This whole upgrade thing sounds like a huge pain in the rear end, better be worth it. I'm anticipating better performance (Fallout 4's engine is much, much better than any iteration of ~~~gamebryo~~ we've seen to date) at the risk of being a few months without a few critical mods. I'll probably play the game again (and maybe finish?) it vanilla once through for the new version, and then get back to the modding game, which as we all know is the actual game.
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Oct 19, 2016 22:49
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Raygereio posted:Trainwiz was given access to a SSE beta, and he says here that for his mods (which include meshes, textures, and complex scripts) really were as simple as "save in the new CK, play!". turn off the TV posted:Is there any explanation for FPS drops when your CPU and GPU aren't being taxed? If I run the game with the HD texture DLC and an ENB I net 55~ FPS when looking at Riverwood from the bridge, but I'm only getting something like 30% GPU usage. If I install more 2K texture packs, with parallax, I've hit 66% GPU and 51% CPU usage, but I'm getting 40~ FPS while looking at Riverwood. My VRAM isn't going beyond 2300 MB, and I'm using ENBoost and the SKSE memory patch. I don't really get why the game is lagging, or why installing 2K texture packs over preexisting 2K textures is reducing performance. Fortunately, these instances are very few and far between. Additionally, they are typically only occur in instances where the frame drops don't really matter. For example, standing at the top of Dragon's Reach stairs and looking down over whiterun is usually a good way to hamstring framerate - but nothing ever happens right there, so the need to maintain framerate is irrelevant. The only trouble spot I ever personally have is in Solitude with Legacy of the Dragonborn installed. That usually brings me down to the 20s, and the impact will be felt at the front door, so it actually becomes a problem when the drat suck heads show up. Exteriors have very broadly been well optimized that you will rarely see drops below 60. I don't know what could be causing you trouble in Riverwood, but you're looking at a "town" in it's entirety. It's probably just one of those odd instances where some LOD and the shadowing engine gets hit. Make your way over to whiterun and see what you're looking at from Dragon's Reach. If you're still 30+ it's just something you'll have to deal with. If you're looking at sub 30, you might still be able to deal with it, but some mods may make some spots especially frustrating.
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Oct 20, 2016 05:45
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IMB posted:I don't know where else to post this so bear with me. reduce the difficulty, increase after a while
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Oct 20, 2016 14:00
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I had such great luck with my mod list and now my main save crashes every time I go in the vicinity of my character's home.  on the whole though I guess I'm surprised it took this long.
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Oct 20, 2016 15:46
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A Game of Chess posted:I had such great luck with my mod list and now my main save crashes every time I go in the vicinity of my character's home. U got a crash log m8
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Oct 20, 2016 15:49
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