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Perchance to Dream also handled it well.
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Oct 21, 2016 23:25
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I like the shift from Bright Happy Simulation to Dark Reality in one page, to be fair.
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Oct 21, 2016 23:37
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Mad Hatter willing to give Batman his perfect world just so he would leave him alone makes for a better motivation than Mad Hatter thought was saaaad
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Oct 21, 2016 23:41
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Malachite_Dragon posted:hey shut up about Grounded I don't dislike it, but it just feels strange to see one of Batman's enemies to show genuine empathy for him.
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Oct 21, 2016 23:48
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Calaveron posted:Mad Hatter willing to give Batman his perfect world just so he would leave him alone makes for a better motivation than Mad Hatter thought was saaaad All the Gotham Adventures issues had a deep empathy for its wounded heroes and ruined villains. A bunch of the issues have stuck with me for years and years, while all the rest of the franchise blends together. This is one of my all-time favorite Batman stories, in which Two-Face's lucky coin is switched with a weighted fake. And he starts to feel the unbearable guilt of all the choices he let the coin make.         Gotham Adventures #12
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Oct 22, 2016 00:30
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mind the walrus posted:For the Man Who Has Everything was way better. I liked how in JLU, when Batman gets the black mercy on him after pulling it off Superman, his perfect world is his dad beating the poo poo out of Joe Chill, forever.
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Oct 22, 2016 00:48
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Lurdiak posted:I liked how in JLU, when Batman gets the black mercy on him after pulling it off Superman, his perfect world is his dad beating the poo poo out of Joe Chill, forever. Ugh, and the look on his face as Wonder Woman starts to rip the plant off him and his dad slowly starts to lose the fight. UGH 
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Oct 22, 2016 02:42
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W.T. Fits posted:I don't dislike it, but it just feels strange to see one of Batman's enemies to show genuine empathy for him. I'm hardly an authority on Batman's history but Hatter's always seemed to skew on the deluded and/or unwell side of the rogue's gallery, rather than the overtly malicious. Misguided empathy doesn't seem unusual.
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Oct 22, 2016 07:57
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I'd agree he has odd motivations. Usually his crimes aren't for money, instead being some other reason. This is actually true of a quite a few batman bad guys, off the cuff it seems like these motivations are most prevalent (in my opinion): - Penguin: Money/Weakening an opponent in the world of organized crime - Joker: Attacking Batman/the sane world/Chaos. Generally not in it for the money - Two Face: Duality, and sometimes money/influence depending on the writer? This is the one I feel I have the least handle on - Riddler: Showing people how smart he is - Clayface: Getting money for a cure for his condition? He's apparently a good guy now - Croc: Generally doesn't plan/commit crimes of his own other than those of opportunity or revenge - Freeze: Nora/His continued existence - Hatter: Weird creepy poo poo involving an Alice/Money(?)/Because he's bored?
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Oct 22, 2016 12:01
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Lurdiak posted:You can weaponize cars really easily, that's no reason to not use them. Yeah, it is an idiot kind of logic and it turns a series of books about a peaceful nation being invaded by evil villains into a nation led by assholes being invaded by other assholes. It really doesn't help if you like me had a baby cousin who died of cancer and has a dying grandmother from the same illness.
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Oct 22, 2016 12:11
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I always liked how in the DCAU, Bats' personal connection to Harvey always colors his interactions with him, and how he never gives up on him. Also, I don't have it, but I remember reading this short thing in a collection around the time the Face the Face arc was going where they did a comic in the style of the Gotham Adventures (which was no longer printing) where Harvey gets an operation to fix his face after successful mental counseling. It doesn't work. It can't work, and it's really tragic. It was done in black and white which added a classiness to it. I want to say Dini himself wrote it.
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Oct 22, 2016 17:38
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Is it different to how Dark Knight Returns handled it? If so please find and post.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:14
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Choco1980 posted:I always liked how in the DCAU, Bats' personal connection to Harvey always colors his interactions with him, and how he never gives up on him. I know there was at least one story where the Joker nudged a Harvey that was on the edge of a genuine recovery back over the edge, just because it was Tuesday.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:17
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Infinitum posted:Is it different to how Dark Knight Returns handled it? If so please find and post. It was very different. Harvey was cured and had his face fixed but he started dating a woman who turned out to have a twin, and that fact alone started the cracks in his psyche. The twin turned out to be manipulative and homicidal and starts turning Harvey back towards the dark side. This imgur album has the whole comic: http://imgur.com/a/kAl7l Story and art by Bruce Timm, Dini had nothing to do with it.
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Oct 22, 2016 19:23
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purple death ray posted:Dini had nothing to do with it.
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Oct 22, 2016 19:28
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Scaramouche posted:I'd agree he has odd motivations. Usually his crimes aren't for money, instead being some other reason. This is actually true of a quite a few batman bad guys, off the cuff it seems like these motivations are most prevalent (in my opinion): For what it's worth, my read on Two Face is that while he's a classic gangster in terms of MO, he's also obsessed with the influence of random chance in an uncaring universe. A cruel turn of fate ruined his looks, his career, his sanity and effectively his life, and now in each crime he plays that out again on his victims by subjecting them to a coin toss to see whether they will live or die (or other good outcome/bad outcome duality). It's sort of like a twisted, long-form method of trauma processing, and it roots from the fact that he sees what happened to him as essentially unfair, unstoppable, and unlucky, rather than being the consequence of a sequence of actions. He wants to recreate that dynamic - of unfair, unstoppable bad luck - over and over again with his crimes. I'd say he's a nihilist, but he's a bit too petty for that. His main "thing" is re-enacting his own trauma through arbitrary injustice carried out on others.
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Oct 22, 2016 22:31
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Oct 22, 2016 22:38
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I just heard the news 
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Oct 22, 2016 23:18
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You Am I posted:I just heard the news This year sucks. Preacher appealed to the angry young man I was when ti was new. I loved Dillon's work even when others didn't. This is a massive loss to the industry.
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Oct 22, 2016 23:24
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Oct 23, 2016 04:32
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These seem like cool panels. A shame I don't know what the gently caress they are.
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Oct 23, 2016 04:43
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Android Blues posted:For what it's worth, my read on Two Face is that while he's a classic gangster in terms of MO, he's also obsessed with the influence of random chance in an uncaring universe. A cruel turn of fate ruined his looks, his career, his sanity and effectively his life, and now in each crime he plays that out again on his victims by subjecting them to a coin toss to see whether they will live or die (or other good outcome/bad outcome duality). Yeah the current All-Star Batman comic is doing some interesting exploration of Harvey's character and past(as well as Bruce's)
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Oct 23, 2016 04:59
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Toshimo posted:These seem like cool panels. Preacher, don't know the issues.
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Oct 23, 2016 05:07
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People'll bring up the Frank-face thing, but I'm sure he recently got out of that rutt. Sad to hear of his death.
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Oct 23, 2016 09:07
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LashLightning posted:People'll bring up the Frank-face thing, but I'm sure he recently got out of that rutt. Sad to hear of his death. Someone in another thread posted that he was apparently doing it intentionally to feed the joke.
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Oct 23, 2016 15:36
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Toshimo posted:These seem like cool panels. Not taking no poo poo off this guy
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Oct 23, 2016 16:26
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purple death ray posted:It was very different. Harvey was cured and had his face fixed but he started dating a woman who turned out to have a twin, and that fact alone started the cracks in his psyche. The twin turned out to be manipulative and homicidal and starts turning Harvey back towards the dark side. Whoops, sorry for the mixup. Thanks for the post. It's funny that a cartoon aimed at kids works so well as one of the most adult takes on the character, and the adult themes in this strip don't feel unnatural in the least.
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Oct 23, 2016 16:53
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What news?
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Oct 23, 2016 17:39
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http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/steve-dillon-dead-preacher-creator-940668
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Oct 23, 2016 18:28
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Android Blues posted:For what it's worth, my read on Two Face is that while he's a classic gangster in terms of MO, he's also obsessed with the influence of random chance in an uncaring universe. A cruel turn of fate ruined his looks, his career, his sanity and effectively his life, and now in each crime he plays that out again on his victims by subjecting them to a coin toss to see whether they will live or die (or other good outcome/bad outcome duality). If those panels posted earlier are an indication, he also credits his rise as DA to good luck (possibly due to an inferiority/imposter complex) as much as he credits his fall to bad luck. I think Timm saw that Harvey is a great foil to Batman since Bruce was also the product of good fortune, in that he was born into immense wealth and privilege, only for a rotten twist of fate to rob him of his family, the only thing that mattered to him. That's why their interactions worked so well and why Batman empathized with him.
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Oct 23, 2016 18:35
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purple death ray posted:It was very different. Harvey was cured and had his face fixed but he started dating a woman who turned out to have a twin, and that fact alone started the cracks in his psyche. The twin turned out to be manipulative and homicidal and starts turning Harvey back towards the dark side. Batman: Black and White Vol. 1 I always preferred Two-Face as the conflicted villain more than the outright villain. The fact that he depends on his coin a lot pushes into this a lot. I really don't like the outright villain crime boss angle a lot of writers go with.
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Oct 24, 2016 15:59
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Yeah, the point of him is that he sometimes does good things. His true "evil" is that he's abandoned moral responsibility rather than him simply being a cruel man with a gimmick.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:18
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I think the first time I ever saw him in a comic, was WAYYYY back in the 80s and even then I think it was an old issue. It was a cover, I think, and he had tied Batman and Robin to a coin, and was going to FLIP IT INTO SPACE! MWAUAHAHAHAHAHAH and that kinda killed any hope he had of being taken seriously by me. If it helps, Capn' Boomerang kinda did the same poo poo with The Flash, only somehow, more retarded.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:10
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My first exposure to Two-Face was A Lonely Place of Dying, so maybe that's why he's always been one of my favorites.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:25
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 Vision #12
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Oct 27, 2016 00:03
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Synthbuttrange posted:
This series hurts, although at least it's a bittersweet ending rather than just bitter as his daughter is still alive at least
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Oct 27, 2016 00:13
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drrockso20 posted:This series hurts, although at least it's a bittersweet ending rather than just bitter as his daughter is still alive at least And one other 
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Oct 27, 2016 00:17
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Synthbuttrange posted:
Try not to save any worlds on the way to the parking lot!
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Oct 27, 2016 01:34
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Gavok posted:Try not to save any worlds on the way to the parking lot! 
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Oct 27, 2016 03:48
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Synthbuttrange posted:
I'm glad I recommended Vision #1 to someone because I ended up rereading it just before reading 12, and thus was able to pick up on all the callbacks to the first issue, such as their quibble over the distinction between "nice" and "kind".
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Oct 28, 2016 09:34
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