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Belgium once again facing down baby killers, and standing firm.
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Oct 21, 2016 19:32
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Cat Mattress posted:That one isn't that big a deal, honestly. Schiaparelli's mission was to land, and that's it. No roving around, no digging the dirt, nothing interesting or exciting; it was just there to test a lander setup for the next Mars mission planned for 2020. Verdict: didn't work, engineers have to go back to the drawing board. It's bad but not that much. All the scientific equipment that's supposed to give us interesting data beyond a binary "our gizmo: works or not?" answer is on the orbiter, which is successfully orbiting. Don't forget, only 4 days worth of battery.
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Oct 21, 2016 19:52
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Einbauschrank posted:^^ In that specific case though we're getting a bit of a broken-clock-being-right-twice-a-day vibe  Good job Wallonia!
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Oct 21, 2016 19:58
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:Good job Wallonia! Unironically this.
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Oct 21, 2016 20:41
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Randler posted:Unironically this.
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Oct 21, 2016 21:05
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About them illegal police marches in France can we get the military involved, break a few skulls and court-martial the whole lot? I'm terrified of all these urban types with guns loitering around in my cities...
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Oct 21, 2016 21:17
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:About them illegal police marches in France can we get the military involved, break a few skulls and court-martial the whole lot? I'm terrified of all these urban types with guns loitering around in my cities... what do they want to achieve with this? I'm curious
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Oct 21, 2016 21:21
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9-Volt Assault posted:CETA failed thanks to half of Belgium I have no strong feelings about CETA but I don't see why Wallonia shouldn't have veto power. The UK gets four football teams and they're ten times as internally coherent as Belgium. Vive la Wallonie libre! 
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Oct 21, 2016 21:40
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Wild Horses posted:what do they want to achieve with this? I'm curious AFAIK they want the Chief of National Police to resign. Because it's going to change things.
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Oct 21, 2016 21:40
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:About them illegal police marches in France can we get the military involved, break a few skulls and court-martial the whole lot? I'm terrified of all these urban types with guns loitering around in my cities... Well, for obvious reasons most of the policing of these marches is actually done by the Gendarmerie, not by the police, so technically the military is already involved.
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Oct 21, 2016 22:22
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finally the answer to quis custodiet ipsos custodes
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Oct 21, 2016 23:06
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:In that specific case though we're getting a bit of a broken-clock-being-right-twice-a-day vibe The luddites couldn't turn back the weel, neither will some farmers and Socialists in Belgium be able to do it. Instead of facing change they want to embrace calcification. Regardless on what your stance is on free trade, a system that only works unanimously (and where a vote can be obstructed by a regional parliament) won't work. The US is in a state of near permanent grid lock, now imagine a Senate that has to reach unanimous decisions. It's mind boggingly stupid. I am no big EU fan, I think it is heading in the wrong (centralist) direction, with its top-down construction an elitist project without broad support and its founding narrative (Europe is Peace, Europe is Wealth) out of date and overused. In this specific case I see how Regressives like farmers, Socialists and populist NGOs pandering to irrational fears try to shut out reality through some kind of 17th century protectionism, and are being gleeful about it. It demonstrates to me that an united Europe that is at the mercy of the most reactionary and backward minorities doesn't have a future and certainly no raison-d'etre as an instrument to help Europe stay prosperous in the 21st century. And compared to these last-century groups even the EU seems like a force of progress.
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Oct 22, 2016 09:47
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People hate the EU because it strips nations of sovereignty and forces countries to accept decisions made by foreign leaders, supposedly. Then the same people complain that the EU is too weak because each individual member can use its sovereignty to block collective action. What.
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Oct 22, 2016 09:50
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CETA was full of stuff that didn't have anything to do with trade and it is good it died. It was 1800 pages of crap. Plus the economic benefits were not there. I posted this pages ago: http://www.ase.tufts.edu/gdae/policy_research/ceta_simulations.html quote:CETA will lead to wage compression. By 2023, workers will have foregone average annual earnings increases of €1776 in Canada and between €316 and €1331 in the EU depending on the country. Countries with higher labor income shares and unemployment, such as France and Italy, will experience the most pronounced wage compression.
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Oct 22, 2016 09:52
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Riso posted:CETA was full of stuff that didn't have anything to do with trade and it is good it died. It was 1800 pages of crap. At first glance it seems like its it's the old trick to employ a model (GPM) that wasn't designed to analyze the impact of FTAs. I remember a similar prank tried with regard to TTIP a few years ago, and googling it shows it's also from Tufts. This (older) study based on the same GPM model was criticized in the linked article. I'd guess it can be applied to the more recent CETA article as well. The title of this critique is an indication for the political agenda that the researchers at Tufts seem to pursue: “Splendid Isolation” as Trade Policy: Mercantilism and Crude Keynesianism in “the Capaldo Study” of TTIP". It also seems the model lacks transparency and therefore is not reproducable. "Capaldo has chosen a model that is by and large a demand-driven model that does not makes efforts to capture the supply-side effects of trade, which are the effects that are proven to be the core positive effects of trade liberalisation. Equally problematic, the model is not designed to assess the effect on trade from trade agreements – in fact, the model is profoundly ill suited for such an exercise. No trade economist, regardless what school of thought he or she comes from, has ever used this model to make estimates of trade. The reason is simple: if a model cannot predict the effects on the flows and profile of trade as a consequence of trade liberalisation, it is of no use at all. And yet, to cover up the flaws of the model, Capaldo reinforces the problems and makes the model, and the resulting estimates of TTIP, even less reliable. In addition, despite the ownership of this model by a United Nations agency, access to it is denied and so is the possibility to replicate the model in order to check its predictive power and robustness." http://ecipe.org/publications/splendid-isolation-capaldo-study-ttip/
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Oct 22, 2016 10:36
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It's funny how people celebrate the EU being held hostage by Wallonia, which will result in CETA still being enacted and Wallonia getting a king's ransom to stay in line. Whatever your grievances with CETA are, this is not the way to stop it.
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Oct 22, 2016 10:39
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Bahaha, one does not simply walk into EU parliament and kill CETA. Schulz and Freeland met this morning and agreed to keep pursuing CETA. Now it's Schulz's job to push it through parliament. http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/geplantes-freihandelsabkommen-mit-kanada-schulz-versucht-ceta-in-letzter-minute-retten-1.3217601
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Oct 22, 2016 10:47
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Bahaha, one does not simply walk into EU parliament and kill CETA. Schulz and Freeland met this morning and agreed to keep pursuing CETA. Now it's Schulz's job to push it through parliament. The EU parliament never was the problem. Though I trust in Schulz being able to botch up even a foolproof situation.
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Oct 22, 2016 10:54
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If you thought that CETA would be stopped by a small region that can be bought, you are naive or have no idea how the EU functions. Everything but a referendum can be worked around.
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Oct 22, 2016 11:01
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Einbauschrank posted:The luddites couldn't turn back the weel, neither will some farmers and Socialists in Belgium be able to do it. Instead of facing change they want to embrace calcification. Foreign media love to point out how CETA is being blocked by a 'tiny region' of 3.6 million people, but that still puts it ahead of seven official EU member states. That's without taking into account the hundreds of thousands of Brussels francophones who are additionally represented by the Parliament of the French Community, which is obviously also blocking CETA. The so-called regions in Belgium have far-reaching competences which are only set to increase in scope as the country continues to dissolve. They're virtually nations, so I see no fundamental problem with Wallonia having veto power.
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Oct 22, 2016 11:05
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GaussianCopula posted:If you thought that CETA would be stopped by a small region that can be bought, you are naive or have no idea how the EU functions. Everything but a referendum can be worked around. Cool, we got time thanks to Wallonia. Now to just keep on piling up pressure from the streets and this thing will be just as aborted as TAFTATTIP. Wrap it up FTAilures. 
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Oct 22, 2016 11:16
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Phlegmish posted:Foreign media love to point out how CETA is being blocked by a 'tiny region' of 3.6 million people, but that still puts it ahead of seven official EU member states. That's without taking into account the hundreds of thousands of Brussels francophones who are additionally represented by the Parliament of the French Community, which is obviously also blocking CETA. The so-called regions in Belgium have far-reaching competences which are only set to increase in scope as the country continues to dissolve. They're virtually nations, so I see no fundamental problem with Wallonia having veto power. I didn't mention size. In fact the analogy I used - US senate - also does not make a distinction between states with low or high population. But the claim that Wallonia is #7 is misleading at best. If you compare Wallonia to the 16 German states about 7 of them would have 3.5 million inhabitants or more. Spain has four autonomous communities with more than 4 million people, in the UK Scotland and England have more etc. My main gripe is that with 28/27 members having to reach an unanimous vote will make it impossible to move onwards. And this will prevent the EU from being a tool to create a better future for 500million Europeans. And the EU won't be able to shape the future by vetoing any change to death.
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Oct 22, 2016 11:18
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moules frites
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Oct 22, 2016 11:19
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I said it was larger than seven actual EU member states, not that it was #7 (though Belgium itself is in the top ten). You are correct that it's a rather cumbersome system, but you mentioned earlier that you worried about the EU heading in a centralist direction. Surely this would be a good safeguard against that.
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Oct 22, 2016 11:22
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Einbauschrank posted:My main gripe is that with 28/27 members having to reach an unanimous vote will make it impossible to move onwards. Good.
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Oct 22, 2016 11:27
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Yeah
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Oct 22, 2016 11:37
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Phlegmish posted:I said it was larger than seven actual EU member states, not that it was #7 (though Belgium itself is in the top ten). Sorry. I meant #7 from the bottom. Being paralysed surely is a safeguard against many harms that could stem from doing something. But not being able to act is also harmful. Atm there's no effective check on the (national) governments ruling Europe or the Commission or the Council. So not changing anything will only make things worse.
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Oct 22, 2016 12:10
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The deal with Canada isn't what's really worrying me, it's the deal with the US. In what way will the european workers benefit from giving privileged access to the common market to a country with worse worker laws and ridiculous healthcare? How will that not end up causing a race to the bottom because "we have to stay competitive, there's just no other way"?
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Oct 22, 2016 12:19
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MeLKoR posted:The deal with Canada isn't what's really worrying me, it's the deal with the US. In what way will the european workers benefit from giving privileged access to the common market to a country with worse worker laws and ridiculous healthcare? How will that not end up causing a race to the bottom because "we have to stay competitive, there's just no other way"? Same way Europe can compete against the worse worker laws and ridiculous health care of Vietnam. What is really bothersome for many mercantilists is that they fear the US might be more productive.
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Oct 22, 2016 12:24
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People seem to subconsciously subscribe to the right wing talking point that worker benefits do actually make the economy weaker and vulnerable, and less productive in terms of bang for buck. They don't, and there's no reason to fear competition.
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Oct 22, 2016 12:27
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Einbauschrank posted:Same way Europe can compete against the worse worker laws and ridiculous health care of Vietnam. What is really bothersome for many mercantilists is that they fear the US might be more productive. Vietnam doesn't get the kind of access or influence this deal with the US will entail. And I don't view "productivity" as the ultimate goal but rather living standards of the working class so that's not a race I want to enter in the first place.
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Oct 22, 2016 12:30
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Einbauschrank posted:Same way Europe can compete against the worse worker laws and ridiculous health care of Vietnam. What is really bothersome for many mercantilists is that they fear the US might be more productive. Lol at productivity being the end goal of all human endeavours.
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Oct 22, 2016 12:35
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MeLKoR posted:Vietnam doesn't get the kind of access or influence this deal with the US will entail. And I don't view "productivity" as the ultimate goal but rather living standards of the working class so that's not a race I want to enter in the first place. Influence goes either way. And even your ultimate goal of a glorious future for the heroic people of the working class depends on productivity. If your working class isn't productive its work won't create wealth.
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Oct 22, 2016 12:43
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MeLKoR posted:Vietnam doesn't get the kind of access or influence this deal with the US will entail. And I don't view "productivity" as the ultimate goal but rather living standards of the working class so that's not a race I want to enter in the first place. Turns out that to redistribute wealth, it needs to be produced first. This was something communist countries understood very well, the Western New Left less so.
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Oct 22, 2016 12:53
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Einbauschrank posted:Influence goes either way. no it doesn't 
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Oct 22, 2016 13:08
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Do we need an FTA to trade with Canada or the USA? Are the tariffs high? The whole thing about how the EU not automatically rubber-stamping every trade agreement that comes its way is a proof that it's dysfunctional and backward is really ridiculous. IMO there are four conditions necessary to an FTA: 1. Democratic sovereignty. No ISDS of any kind. gently caress you if you want them. Fuuuuck youuuuuuu. 2. Cultural heritage. Obey our PDO/PGI/TSG. Allow for cultural exception. gently caress you if you complain. 3. Human rights. Sign and ratify the following: all eight core ILO conventions, both optional protocols of the ICCPR, the Ottawa Treaty and the CCM; and also abolish the death penalty. 4. Environment. Sign and ratify the following: biodiversity convention, the Bonn Convention, the Kyoto protocol, the Basel Convention, the Stockholm Convention, the CLC, and the CLRTAP. If a country doesn't agree with these four points, then it is incompatible with the EU and therefore a free trade agreement isn't possible, or desirable.
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Oct 22, 2016 13:18
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Cat Mattress posted:Do we need an FTA to trade with Canada or the USA? Are the tariffs high? The whole thing about how the EU not automatically rubber-stamping every trade agreement that comes its way is a proof that it's dysfunctional and backward is really ridiculous. lol pdos *munches kraft parmesan* agreed on the other points though
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Oct 22, 2016 13:23
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
Cat Mattress posted:2. Cultural heritage. Obey our PDO/PGI/TSG. Allow for cultural exception. gently caress you if you complain. Really? PDO/PGI/TSG is the worst idea ever.
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Oct 22, 2016 13:30
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GaussianCopula posted:Really? PDO/PGI/TSG is the worst idea ever. They are cool and good.
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Oct 22, 2016 13:40
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MiddleOne posted:They are cool and good. Actually they're worse than the international sheep dog society 
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Oct 22, 2016 13:47
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