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GaussianCopula posted:Really? PDO/PGI/TSG is the worst idea ever. Don't care if you don't like them. Not open to debate. gently caress you if you complain.
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Oct 22, 2016 13:58
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GaussianCopula posted:Really? PDO/PGI/TSG is the worst idea ever. Why.
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Oct 22, 2016 14:14
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steinrokkan posted:Why. Kraft Parmesan is superior.
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Oct 22, 2016 14:41
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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GaussianCopula posted:Really? PDO/PGI/TSG is the worst idea ever. explain
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Oct 22, 2016 14:45
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Phlegmish posted:Turns out that to redistribute wealth, it needs to be produced first. This was something communist countries understood very well, the Western New Left less so. Indeed, but if someone comes to you and tells you "in order to be more productive we are going to cut your wages and benefits but it's for your own good" I fail to see how the worker comes out on top at the end of it. Even if the country as a whole becomes wealthier how is that in the interest of the workers if that extra wealth is achieved at their expense? You can't both say "we need to cut your benefits to increase productivity" and claim that's somehow beneficial to the people getting shafted. Those wages/benefits are never coming back as a result of increased productivity because if they did then productivity would lower and we'd be were we begun. The whole thing is predicated on a permanent lowering of the living standards.
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Oct 22, 2016 14:54
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blowfish posted:Kraft Parmesan is superior. it's not parmesan
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Oct 22, 2016 15:08
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Kurtofan posted:it's not parmesan We must secure the existence of our cheese product and a future for mediaeval farmers.
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Oct 22, 2016 15:11
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blowfish posted:We must secure the existence of our cheese product and a future for mediaeval farmers. Trademarks exists, deal with it I can't sell moonshine under the Absolut brand and Kraft can't sell emulgated palm oil wastes(or whatever the gently caress Kraft "cheese" is made of) as Parmesan in the EU
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Oct 22, 2016 15:45
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blowfish posted:We must secure the existence of our cheese product and a future for mediaeval farmers. Unironically this, and lol at trying to equivocate it with racial supremacism.
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Oct 22, 2016 15:48
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MeLKoR posted:The deal with Canada isn't what's really worrying me, it's the deal with the US. In what way will the european workers benefit from giving privileged access to the common market to a country with worse worker laws and ridiculous healthcare? How will that not end up causing a race to the bottom because "we have to stay competitive, there's just no other way"? MeLKoR posted:Indeed, but if someone comes to you and tells you "in order to be more productive we are going to cut your wages and benefits but it's for your own good" I fail to see how the worker comes out on top at the end of it. Even if the country as a whole becomes wealthier how is that in the interest of the workers if that extra wealth is achieved at their expense? You can't both say "we need to cut your benefits to increase productivity" and claim that's somehow beneficial to the people getting shafted. Those wages/benefits are never coming back as a result of increased productivity because if they did then productivity would lower and we'd be were we begun. The whole thing is predicated on a permanent lowering of the living standards. Serious question: what makes you think European countries aren't already racing to the bottom when several countries already slashed minimum wages and other such laws over the past couple of years?
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Oct 22, 2016 15:59
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blowfish posted:Kraft Parmesan is superior. You loving savage.
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Oct 22, 2016 16:13
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fishmech posted:Serious question: what makes you think European countries aren't already racing to the bottom when several countries already slashed minimum wages and other such laws over the past couple of years? Just because a ship is slowly sinking doesn't mean you should enthusiastically drill more holes below the waterline.
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Oct 22, 2016 16:17
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Trademarks exists, deal with it Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 16:22
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Toplowtech posted:It's the "Chicago-style pizza" syndrome, they have a product that's kinda its unique thing but they rather sell it as something it's arguably not (pizza/parmesan) rather them give its own brand name and try to conquer a market. When i think Parmesan i never think Kraft Parmesan but rather then trying to sell it under a unique recognizable brand that's it's proper own thing, let's rather try to sell it under the Parmessan name because that brand was worked super hard by someone else and bitch about PDO/PGI/TSG. Basically risk adverse lovely uninspired marketing people. yeah but on the other hand if it's comparable to ~real~ ~parmesan~ taste wise (maybe not the case for kraft parmesan, but can definitely be the case for parmesan cheeses made in places other than specific mediterranean regions) then it's parmesan even if it's made 2km outside the official parmesan zone or in new jersey or wherever most pdos are either irrelevant or can't even be defended as brands due to being effectively generic terms suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 16:31
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Cat Mattress posted:Just because a ship is slowly sinking doesn't mean you should enthusiastically drill more holes below the waterline. They've already drilled the holes, they're drilling more at this second, and they're going to continue drilling more regardless if trade restrictions with Canada or the US of all places are mildly relaxed.
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Oct 22, 2016 16:32
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fishmech posted:They've already drilled the holes, they're drilling more at this second, and they're going to continue drilling more regardless if trade restrictions with Canada or the US of all places are mildly relaxed. Life is futile, in the end even the Universe will die, why bother with anything.
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Oct 22, 2016 16:34
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New jersey gabagool
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Oct 22, 2016 16:38
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MeLKoR posted:Life is futile, in the end even the Universe will die, why bother with anything. Here's what your politicians are going to say if all the new trade treaties ever are blocked: "Well since we can't get rid of tariffs on widgets, all workers must accept cut pay so we can stay competitive anyway."
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Oct 22, 2016 16:40
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fishmech posted:Here's what your politicians are going to say if all the new trade treaties ever are blocked: "Well since we can't get rid of tariffs on widgets, all workers must accept cut pay so we can stay competitive anyway." Easier to change politicians on the next election than revert an international trade agreement.
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Oct 22, 2016 16:43
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And mostly people who whine about PDO just wants to trademark traditional names to take advantage of the built-in marketing around it and then claim it as their own. It's a form of plunder. For an example, look at Laguiole knives. In 1993, a businessman called Gilbert Szajner registered "Laguiole" as a trademark for cutlery and a number of other things. By doing so, all the traditional knife manufacturer from Laguiole were suddenly outlawed and forbidden from calling their knives "laguioles". Did Mr. Szajner ever set foot in Laguiole? No. Did he own a manufacture in Laguiole? No. Was any of his ancestor named Laguiole? No. It's just that the name was available, and laguiole knives were in fashion, so he thought "hey I can seize that name" in a way very similar to how random people would register juicy domain names in the early 2000s to ransom them later to those who would be the rightful owners. People who are against PDO are people who want to be like Szajner and take advantage on the cheap of the brand recognition of other people's work. Your loving Kraft Parmesan can be sold under a different name, there's absolutely no reason to pretend Kraft absolutely needs to use the "Parmesan" name. You don't need, you never need to use someone else's name just because it'd be more convenient.
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Oct 22, 2016 16:46
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^^^^^^^^^^^^But think of all the sells/money you could make from uninformed non caring people before you damage/ruin the brand name and have to go to another blowfish posted:yeah but on the other hand if it's comparable to ~real~ ~parmesan~ taste wise (maybe not the case for kraft parmesan, but can definitely be the case for parmesan cheeses made in places other than specific mediterranean regions) then it's parmesan even if it's made in new jersey Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 16:47
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Toplowtech posted:And on my side, I won't complain that when i buy some champagne i don't have to check if it's that Chinese brand that poisoned 30 people last year. totally not a problem if they label it "champagne-style sparkling wine" instead 
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Oct 22, 2016 16:51
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MeLKoR posted:Easier to change politicians on the next election than revert an international trade agreement. And what you aren't getting is that opening a trade agreement is not what makes politicians and businessmen demand lower wages and benefits. The businessmen will demand it at all times no matter what, and the politicians can be replaced as you said. Though your country probably won't, they haven't seemed to manage that in decades. Not to mention that most countries in Europe are already very low wage and rather low "total labor cost" countries compared to the US/Canada. Cat Mattress posted:And mostly people who whine about PDO just wants to trademark traditional names to take advantage of the built-in marketing around it and then claim it as their own. It's a form of plunder. The problem here seems to be the trademark regulators involved here, just letting anyone register a long standing trade name. PDOs are completely unnecessary to prevent that.
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Oct 22, 2016 16:51
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PDO goes beyond mere locality but also describes and demands a special method of production/feed.
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Oct 22, 2016 16:58
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Cat Mattress posted:For an example, look at Laguiole knives. In 1993, a businessman called Gilbert Szajner registered "Laguiole" as a trademark for cutlery and a number of other things. By doing so, all the traditional knife manufacturer from Laguiole were suddenly outlawed and forbidden from calling their knives "laguioles". Did Mr. Szajner ever set foot in Laguiole? No. Did he own a manufacture in Laguiole? No. Was any of his ancestor named Laguiole? No. It's just that the name was available, and laguiole knives were in fashion, so he thought "hey I can seize that name" in a way very similar to how random people would register juicy domain names in the early 2000s to ransom them later to those who would be the rightful owners in which case he shouldn't have been able to register laguiole as it was a pre-existing term for knives, not because it refers to some place that has made knives for an arbitrarily-long period of time
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Oct 22, 2016 17:03
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Riso posted:PDO goes beyond mere locality but also describes and demands a special method of production/feed. i'd argue that the entire locality thing should be considered irrelevant, and only the characteristics of the product should matter. special method of production/feed i'm not quite sure about, but quite honestly i'd have no problem calling petri dish grown parmesan parmesan if it's actually close enough in taste
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Oct 22, 2016 17:08
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blowfish posted:i'd argue that the entire locality thing should be considered irrelevant, and only the characteristics of the product should matter. Well, you have no relation to the tradition and process of cheesemaking, so just shut up.
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Oct 22, 2016 17:10
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blowfish posted:in which case he shouldn't have been able to register laguiole as it was a pre-existing term for knives, not because it refers to some place that has made knives for an arbitrarily-long period of time Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 17:12
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steinrokkan posted:Well, you have no relation to the tradition and process of cheesemaking, so just shut up. why does cheesemaking in particular deserve protection, and how is allowing more places to produce a type of cheese with better technology the cancer that's destroying cheesemaking
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Oct 22, 2016 17:28
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blowfish posted:why does cheesemaking in particular deserve protection, and how is allowing more places to produce a type of cheese with better technology the cancer that's destroying cheesemaking Other places are allowed to produce the same types of cheese, but they have to call it a different thing, I thought.
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Oct 22, 2016 17:37
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YF-23 posted:Other places are allowed to produce the same types of cheese, but they have to call it a different thing, I thought. yeah but if it's the same type of cheese it should be called the same
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Oct 22, 2016 17:40
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blowfish posted:yeah but if it's the same type of cheese it should be called the same Eh, it's fine.
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Oct 22, 2016 17:43
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blowfish posted:why does cheesemaking in particular deserve protection, and how is allowing more places to produce a type of cheese with better technology the cancer that's destroying cheesemaking Why does mobile phone making in particular deserve protection, and how is allowing more places to produce a type of mobile phone with better technology the cancer that's destroying mobile phone making Parmesan=iPhone
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Oct 22, 2016 17:44
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Ah, it's time for the thread to go full retard over PDOs again for the next 20 pages. Always fun when this discussion rolls around.
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Oct 22, 2016 17:46
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blowfish posted:yeah but if it's the same type of cheese it should be called the same If my sport shoes are made by the same Bangladeshi kids who make Nikes, I should be allowed to call them Nikes, too. But I'm not. That's the way the world goes.
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Oct 22, 2016 17:46
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LemonDrizzle posted:Ah, it's time for the thread to go full retard over PDOs again for the next 20 pages. Always fun when this discussion rolls around. It wouldn't feel right otherwise.
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Oct 22, 2016 17:47
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If PDO would only require the product to be produced a certain way and with certain ingredients (e.g. Feta needs to be sheep/goat milk and not cow milk) I would be totally fine with that. But by putting in the regional aspect, which is in 99% does not affect the quality of the product at all but just serves to give certain region competitive advantages, it becomes stupid.
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Oct 22, 2016 17:48
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I understand that it's difficult for Americans itt to grasp the concept of culture, but some people have an appreciation for the connection between a thing and the land and people who made it and perceive it as a sort of value in itself, and do not take kindly to impostors trying to turn this cultural connection into a marketing gimmick.
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Oct 22, 2016 17:50
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steinrokkan posted:I understand that it's difficult for Americans itt to grasp the concept of culture, but some people have an appreciation for the connection between a thing and the land and people who made it and perceive it as a sort of value in itself, and do not take kindly to impostors trying to turn this cultural connection into a marketing gimmick. Blut und Boden is an increasing problem in Europe, and it's amusing to think that while American liberals are trying with all their might to delegitimize fascism, their Euro counterparts are insisting on the greatness of fascist nationalism.
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Oct 22, 2016 17:54
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steinrokkan posted:I understand that it's difficult for Americans itt to grasp the concept of culture, but some people have an appreciation for the connection between a thing and the land and people who made it and perceive it as a sort of value in itself, and do not take kindly to impostors trying to turn this cultural connection into a marketing gimmick. It's funny how they can grasp what a trademark is perfectly fine, but it absolutely breaks their minds when the owner of that trademark is not a for-profit organization and not trying to get as much money out of it as possible. It simply does not compute.
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Oct 22, 2016 17:58
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